RE: [WSG] XAML anyone? The end of webstandards?
Title: Message An article related to XAML from the recent PDC 2003 http://www.betanews.com/article.php3?sid=1067611099 In it, the author writes: But that's really just the tip of the iceberg. Here's the central question my friends: Do you want your applications to behave like websites? As an application developer (which is what PDC targets) it certainly is cool to be able to easily create my own super customized looking application. But is this something end users are going to want? Do they want every application to be as different from one another as every Web site currently is? There is something to be said about the rigidity of the Windows UI. Even the poorest written programs have UIs that most people can follow because it's hard to deviate too much from the norm. But XAML opens the door to having apps with user interfaces as bad as...well the typical Web site. Most of the sites I visit have atrocious user interfaces. Ralph -Original Message-From: Tim Lucas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 25 October 2003 3:03 PMTo: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: Re: [WSG] XAML anyone? The end of webstandards? Can you write VB? then you are almost there :^) My first GUI program when I was much younger was a VB6 program. Haven't touched it since then so I'd imagine it would take a fair effort to get up to scratch... Meanwhile I am sitting here making a template for a CMS-driven site browser-detect so it can spit out nice, compliant, accessible pages for most folks and a text version for the rest (client said "give up on N4" ), Next they want high/low bandwidth versions, methinks the zengarden style is the way to go :-)Ok if all your images are defined in the stylesheet (rarely the case)... another alternative i've tried is to make a low-res version of all your images, then buffer the entire page into a variable and do a replace on all ".jpg" with "_low.jpg" and gifs etc... (filter in jsp, ob_start with php or cfsavecontent with coldfusion)... somebody probably has a better way though.Back to XAML: I guess from an ubiquitous computing point view the blurring between application, web application and web page is inevitable. The application server industry is building up steam and I'm sure they will be pushing a similar technology, and my bet is it'll be XAML rather than XUL (i wish it was the other way around!).These technologies conjure up dreams where you don't have to launch all these separate 'applications' to do what you have to do... the computer interface moulds itself to allow you to do the tasks you wish to do, whether it be read an email, look up some information (on the web or otherwise), converse on a newsgroup, instant message a friend, post on a private/public diary... I wish MS would agree on (instead of declaring) a common base architecture with the rest of the world... Longhorn would not doubt be the most advanced application using that architecture, which would still give them the market lead they lust for.MS write some great and useful stuff for the business world. If only they would let the rest of the world join the game...- timp.s. Looks like we have two definitions of XAML (i was waiting for an ML acronym clash!):http://longhornblogs.com/rdawson/posts/496.aspx andhttp://itmanagement.webopedia.com/TERM/T/Transaction_Authority_Markup_Language.htmlKym Kovan spoke the following wise words on 25/10/2003 1:48 PM EST: Why do I have this little elf in my left ear whispering "learn dot net"... i wish he'd go away Can you write VB? then you are almost there :^) Right now we have a client with a bunch of php sites he wants us to host, as we do such a good job with his CF sites, I am starting to wonder which way it is all going. Meanwhile I am sitting here making a template for a CMS-driven site browser-detect so it can spit out nice, compliant, accessible pages for most folks and a text version for the rest (client said "give up on N4" ), Next they want high/low bandwidth versions, methinks the zengarden style is the way to go :-)
Re: [WSG] XAML anyone? The end of webstandards?
Can you write VB? then you are almost there :^) My first GUI program when I was much younger was a VB6 program. Haven't touched it since then so I'd imagine it would take a fair effort to get up to scratch... Meanwhile I am sitting here making a template for a CMS-driven site browser-detect so it can spit out nice, compliant, accessible pages for most folks and a text version for the rest (client said "give up on N4" ), Next they want high/low bandwidth versions, methinks the zengarden style is the way to go :-) Ok if all your images are defined in the stylesheet (rarely the case)... another alternative i've tried is to make a low-res version of all your images, then buffer the entire page into a variable and do a replace on all ".jpg" with "_low.jpg" and gifs etc... (filter in jsp, ob_start with php or cfsavecontent with coldfusion)... somebody probably has a better way though. Back to XAML: I guess from an ubiquitous computing point view the blurring between application, web application and web page is inevitable. The application server industry is building up steam and I'm sure they will be pushing a similar technology, and my bet is it'll be XAML rather than XUL (i wish it was the other way around!). These technologies conjure up dreams where you don't have to launch all these separate 'applications' to do what you have to do... the computer interface moulds itself to allow you to do the tasks you wish to do, whether it be read an email, look up some information (on the web or otherwise), converse on a newsgroup, instant message a friend, post on a private/public diary... I wish MS would agree on (instead of declaring) a common base architecture with the rest of the world... Longhorn would not doubt be the most advanced application using that architecture, which would still give them the market lead they lust for. MS write some great and useful stuff for the business world. If only they would let the rest of the world join the game... - tim p.s. Looks like we have two definitions of XAML (i was waiting for an ML acronym clash!): http://longhornblogs.com/rdawson/posts/496.aspx and http://itmanagement.webopedia.com/TERM/T/Transaction_Authority_Markup_Language.html Kym Kovan spoke the following wise words on 25/10/2003 1:48 PM EST: Why do I have this little elf in my left ear whispering "learn dot net"... i wish he'd go away Can you write VB? then you are almost there :^) Right now we have a client with a bunch of php sites he wants us to host, as we do such a good job with his CF sites, I am starting to wonder which way it is all going. Meanwhile I am sitting here making a template for a CMS-driven site browser-detect so it can spit out nice, compliant, accessible pages for most folks and a text version for the rest (client said "give up on N4" ), Next they want high/low bandwidth versions, methinks the zengarden style is the way to go :-)
Re: [WSG] XAML anyone? The end of webstandards?
>Why do I have this little elf in my left ear whispering "learn dot net"... i wish >he'd go away Can you write VB? then you are almost there :^) Right now we have a client with a bunch of php sites he wants us to host, as we do such a good job with his CF sites, I am starting to wonder which way it is all going. Meanwhile I am sitting here making a template for a CMS-driven site browser-detect so it can spit out nice, compliant, accessible pages for most folks and a text version for the rest (client said "give up on N4" ), Next they want high/low bandwidth versions, methinks the zengarden style is the way to go :-) -- Yours, Kym * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] XAML anyone? The end of webstandards?
Why do I have this little elf in my left ear whispering "learn dot net"... i wish he'd go away russ weakley spoke the following wise words on 25/10/2003 7:00 AM EST: OK, rumours spread thick and fast around the blog community. This is the latest. Ryan Dawson - Why there hasn't been development of IE? http://longhornblogs.com/rdawson/posts/496.aspx "The quick and dirty (2): XAML is basically an XML structure with CSS and JavaScript. The CSS defines the appearance and the JavaScript dictates behavior. " Simon Willison - Microsoft's XUL http://simon.incutio.com/archive/2003/10/24/microsoftsXUL "Of course, Microsoft might make it an open standard. But then I might win the lottery next week. " Eric Meyer - Corralled: http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/200310.html#t200310024 "I want to be wrong. I want to think that XAML will be open, interoperable, available for anyone to hook into whether or not they're a partner or Longhorn developer. I want to believe that Safari and Mozilla will be able to surf the XAML sea just as effectively as Explorer. I also remember my history, and the past behavior I recall doesn't bode well for the future. " * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
[WSG] XAML anyone? The end of webstandards?
OK, rumours spread thick and fast around the blog community. This is the latest. Ryan Dawson - Why there hasn't been development of IE? http://longhornblogs.com/rdawson/posts/496.aspx "The quick and dirty (2): XAML is basically an XML structure with CSS and JavaScript. The CSS defines the appearance and the JavaScript dictates behavior. " Simon Willison - Microsoft's XUL http://simon.incutio.com/archive/2003/10/24/microsoftsXUL "Of course, Microsoft might make it an open standard. But then I might win the lottery next week. " Eric Meyer - Corralled: http://www.meyerweb.com/eric/thoughts/200310.html#t200310024 "I want to be wrong. I want to think that XAML will be open, interoperable, available for anyone to hook into whether or not they're a partner or Longhorn developer. I want to believe that Safari and Mozilla will be able to surf the XAML sea just as effectively as Explorer. I also remember my history, and the past behavior I recall doesn't bode well for the future. " Thanks Russ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
