Re: [WSG] getting ride of table layout

[Jad Madi]

hmm 
well its bad idea to use table in my case. 
I'll try to find a better way to list my hosting plans 
maybe boxes module
ah its hard to build a good site heh
Thank you folks


On Tue, 8 Jun 2004 09:34:58 +0100, Patrick Lauke
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > You can get clever and offer abbreviations and such - I believe the
> > attribute is 'abbr'? - but I don't have an URL handy.
> 
> http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.6
> 
> Patrick
> 
> Patrick H. Lauke
> Webmaster / University of Salford
> http://www.salford.ac.uk
> 
> 
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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> 
> 


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RE: [WSG] getting ride of table layout

[Patrick Lauke]

> You can get clever and offer abbreviations and such - I believe the 
> attribute is 'abbr'? - but I don't have an URL handy. 

http://www.w3.org/TR/REC-html40/struct/tables.html#h-11.2.6

Patrick

Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
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Re: [WSG] getting ride of table layout

[Lea de Groot]

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 16:07:36 -0600, RC Pierce wrote:
> One question, though: When this table is linearized will it still 
> make sense?

>   => Disk Space => Bandwidth => &c.; =>
> Bronze => 400 MB => 7 GB => &c.; =>
> Silver => &c.; =>
> Gold => &c.; =>
> Platinum => &c.;

I haven't looked at the source of the table in the OP, but if you 
correctly use th tags to define which cells are the headers, and only 
use td tags for the content cells then the browser will handle this for 
you.
You can get clever and offer abbreviations and such - I believe the 
attribute is 'abbr'? - but I don't have an URL handy. Google is your 
friend. :)

HIH
Lea
-- 
Lea de Groot
Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet 
Web Design, Usability, Information Architecture, Search Engine 
Optimisation
Brisbane, Australia
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RE: [WSG] getting ride of table layout

[Patrick Lauke]

> One question, though: When this table is linearized will it still make sense?
 
In the case of properly coded (read: with correct table headings, scope, etc)
data tables, meaningful linearisation should be taken care of by the user agent.
Don't worry about it...this should not, in my view anyway, influence your table
structure; the actual nature of the data should. The table, as it stands in the
thread starter's example, works fine the way it is.
 
Patrick

Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
<>

Re: [WSG] getting ride of table layout

[RC Pierce]

One question, though: When this table is linearized will it still make sense?

If I have gathered correctly what Russ and others said in the linearization thread, 
would it make
more sense to have the columnar data in the rows, and vice-versa? That way, when the 
data is
linearized, it will flow as:

  => Disk Space => Bandwidth => &c.; =>
Bronze => 400 MB => 7 GB => &c.; =>
Silver => &c.; =>
Gold => &c.; =>
Platinum => &c.;

Please feel free to debunk this interpretation--I am here to learn, after all.

Roy

- Original Message - 
From: "Amit Karmakar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, June 07, 2004 5:59 AM
Subject: RE: [WSG] getting ride of table layout


That's a good one Russ, very handy, helps build a mental picture too!
Thanks.

Regards,
Amit Karmakar
www.karmakars.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Russ Weakley - Maxdesign
Sent: Monday, 7 June 2004 8:08 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] getting ride of table layout


This is a perfect example of tabular data - it is semantically correct
inside a table. Instead of thinking of ways to convert it into divs, you
should be working on implementing accessibility features: id, headers
for, summary, caption, etc.

A rough example if id's and headers in action is here:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/accessible/

Russ



> Greetings
> I'm trying to replace this table
> http://www.easyhttp.com/temp/plans.html
> with a table-less layout using only CSS divs no tables
> any idea how to do it ?

*
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RE: [WSG] getting ride of table layout

[Amit Karmakar]

That's a good one Russ, very handy, helps build a mental picture too!
Thanks.

Regards,
Amit Karmakar
www.karmakars.com


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Russ Weakley - Maxdesign
Sent: Monday, 7 June 2004 8:08 PM
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] getting ride of table layout


This is a perfect example of tabular data - it is semantically correct
inside a table. Instead of thinking of ways to convert it into divs, you
should be working on implementing accessibility features: id, headers
for, summary, caption, etc.

A rough example if id's and headers in action is here:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/accessible/

Russ



> Greetings
> I'm trying to replace this table 
> http://www.easyhttp.com/temp/plans.html
> with a table-less layout using only CSS divs no tables
> any idea how to do it ?

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
* 

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
* 

RE: [WSG] getting ride of table layout

[Mike Pepper]

Well said, mate. There's no need to convert to divs because you're using a
table as it should be used.

Mike Pepper
Accessible Web Developer
www.seowebsitepromotion.com
www.gawds.org


-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Russ Weakley - Maxdesign
Sent: 07 June 2004 11:08
To: Web Standards Group
Subject: Re: [WSG] getting ride of table layout


This is a perfect example of tabular data - it is semantically correct
inside a table. Instead of thinking of ways to convert it into divs, you
should be working on implementing accessibility features:
id, headers for, summary, caption, etc.

A rough example if id's and headers in action is here:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/accessible/

Russ



> Greetings
> I'm trying to replace this table
> http://www.easyhttp.com/temp/plans.html
> with a table-less layout using only CSS divs no tables
> any idea how to do it ?

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
*


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See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
* 

Re: [WSG] getting ride of table layout

[Jad Madi]

Thank you guys 

On Mon, 7 Jun 2004 20:21:36 +1000, Mark Stanton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jad
> 
> That really looks like table data to me & so I think its best to keep
> it in tables. Tables are not evil in and of themselves, in fact they
> are very useful in cases like yours. Its just when they are abused
> that the problems start.
> 
> If I was to improve on that code, i'd start by moving all the
> presentational stuff out to a style sheet ( tags, width & height
> attributes).
> 
> I'd also try to use some of the more semantic table related tags &
> attributes like caption, thead, tfoot, th and so one.
> 
> See http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#tables and
> http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/documents/doc_6_accesstable.html
> (view source on this one) for details.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> Mark
> 
> -
> Mark Stanton
> Technical Director
> Gruden Pty Ltd
> Tel: +61 2 9299 9462
> Fax: +61 2 9299 9463
> Mob: +61 410 458 201
> http://www.gruden.com
> 
> 
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> *
> 
>
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Re: [WSG] getting ride of table layout

[Jad Madi]

thank you Russ
you know what! I feel like you are the only one who can understand
What web is and what Web standards is
heh
Thank you mate

On Mon, 07 Jun 2004 20:07:57 +1000, Russ Weakley - Maxdesign
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This is a perfect example of tabular data - it is semantically correct
> inside a table. Instead of thinking of ways to convert it into divs, you
> should be working on implementing accessibility features:
> id, headers for, summary, caption, etc.
> 
> A rough example if id's and headers in action is here:
> http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/accessible/
> 
> Russ
> 
> 
> 
> 
> > Greetings
> > I'm trying to replace this table
> > http://www.easyhttp.com/temp/plans.html
> > with a table-less layout using only CSS divs no tables
> > any idea how to do it ?
> 
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> *
> 
>
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for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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RE: [WSG] getting ride of table layout

[Patrick Lauke]

The content you have there *is* tabular data, so
you should not attempt to get rid of the table at
all. Otherwise, you'll lose any semantic/structural
relationships between the headings and the data
cells. Incidentally, you should use TH with appropriate
scope for all your headings, e.g.:

Bronze
Silver

...

Disk space
400 MB

...

Bandwidth
7 GB

Patrick

Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk

> -Original Message-
> From: Jad Madi [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: 07 June 2004 10:57
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [WSG] getting ride of table layout
> 
> 
> Greetings
> I'm trying to replace this table
> http://www.easyhttp.com/temp/plans.html
> with a table-less layout using only CSS divs no tables
> any idea how to do it ?
> *
> The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
> See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
> for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
> * 
> 
> 
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
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Re: [WSG] getting ride of table layout

[Mark Stanton]

Hi Jad

That really looks like table data to me & so I think its best to keep
it in tables. Tables are not evil in and of themselves, in fact they
are very useful in cases like yours. Its just when they are abused
that the problems start.

If I was to improve on that code, i'd start by moving all the
presentational stuff out to a style sheet ( tags, width & height
attributes).

I'd also try to use some of the more semantic table related tags &
attributes like caption, thead, tfoot, th and so one.

See http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG10-HTML-TECHS/#tables and
http://webstandardsgroup.org/resources/documents/doc_6_accesstable.html
(view source on this one) for details.



Cheers

Mark


-
Mark Stanton 
Technical Director 
Gruden Pty Ltd 
Tel: +61 2 9299 9462 
Fax: +61 2 9299 9463 
Mob: +61 410 458 201 
http://www.gruden.com
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The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
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Re: [WSG] getting ride of table layout

[Russ Weakley - Maxdesign]

This is a perfect example of tabular data - it is semantically correct
inside a table. Instead of thinking of ways to convert it into divs, you
should be working on implementing accessibility features:
id, headers for, summary, caption, etc.

A rough example if id's and headers in action is here:
http://www.maxdesign.com.au/jobs/css/accessible/

Russ



> Greetings
> I'm trying to replace this table
> http://www.easyhttp.com/temp/plans.html
> with a table-less layout using only CSS divs no tables
> any idea how to do it ?

*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
* 

[WSG] getting ride of table layout

[Jad Madi]

Greetings
I'm trying to replace this table
http://www.easyhttp.com/temp/plans.html
with a table-less layout using only CSS divs no tables
any idea how to do it ?
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list & getting help
*