Re: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies!
- Original Message - From: Lori Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 12:21 AM Subject: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies! So, before heading this way for some help, I checked out the site on many platforms. http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/ http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/c/global.css Sorry Lori, But on my winXP machine [not SP2] the site misbehaves in FF1.0 - the right column appears underneath the left one! In IE6 etc it is fine. Please note that you get a bad 'flash of unstyled content' in IE5.5. Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies!
I made some changes to the menu per Philippe, and I not happy with the results. I can't get it to move up and it seems there are so many hacks in there I don't know which one to change to make it move. Here is that with his menu system implemented: http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/index2.htm http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/global2.css I want the menu system to be exactly like the one on www.adaptivepath.com except on the right of the design rather than the left. The implementation that was used in the original css is the one that they used with mods. They did not use UL, and they used floats. It works for them - why will it not for me. Or do you see problems with theirs too?? Now, on the font size, I showed the client the larger font size, and he does not like it. He wants it back like it was, small. He says that most of his visitors will be in the banking industry and not your normal passer by (thought I tried to explain the benefits) and he says that they will be able to read it. Here is the page with a larger font size (done in points) for all content, and a width now added to the right float. Does it still fall under the left side? http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/index.htm http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/global.css Lori Leach ZenfulCreations -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Philippe Wittenbergh Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 1:21 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies!
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:52:51 -0500, Lori Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is the page with a larger font size (done in points) for all content, and a width now added to the right float. Does it still fall under the left side? http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/index.htm http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/global.css Lori Leach ZenfulCreations Lori, XP_SP2 1280 optimal LCD FF Menu breaks right on 1st zoom click. Right coumn holds, and no longer breaks. Text in the 2 upper containers(right coloumn) breaks at bottom on 3rd zoom click. Opera7.54 Menu just starts to break right at 110%(one letter and pipe). Best, David -- http://www.dlaakso.com/ Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies!
David, Thanks for looking... Apparently then there is nothing that I can do to keep the menu from breaking when you zoom as I have a fixed width design and not fluid. I am in a corner of sorts, as this is the layout he wants, refuses fluid, and this is the menu he wants. So I conclude that there is nothing I can do - right? Lori Leach ZenfulCreations -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Laakso Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:49 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies! On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:52:51 -0500, Lori Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is the page with a larger font size (done in points) for all content, and a width now added to the right float. Does it still fall under the left side? http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/index.htm http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/global.css Lori Leach ZenfulCreations Lori, XP_SP2 1280 optimal LCD FF Menu breaks right on 1st zoom click. Right coumn holds, and no longer breaks. Text in the 2 upper containers(right coloumn) breaks at bottom on 3rd zoom click. Opera7.54 Menu just starts to break right at 110%(one letter and pipe). Best, David -- http://www.dlaakso.com/ Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies!
Lori, Dunno. I can test. However, I couldn't code my way out of a wet paper bag. David On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:50:04 -0500, Lori Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, Thanks for looking... Apparently then there is nothing that I can do to keep the menu from breaking when you zoom as I have a fixed width design and not fluid. I am in a corner of sorts, as this is the layout he wants, refuses fluid, and this is the menu he wants. So I conclude that there is nothing I can do - right? Lori Leach ZenfulCreations -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Laakso Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2004 9:49 AM To: wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Subject: Re: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies! On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 08:52:51 -0500, Lori Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here is the page with a larger font size (done in points) for all content, and a width now added to the right float. Does it still fall under the left side? http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/index.htm http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/global.css Lori Leach ZenfulCreations Lori, XP_SP2 1280 optimal LCD FF Menu breaks right on 1st zoom click. Right coumn holds, and no longer breaks. Text in the 2 upper containers(right coloumn) breaks at bottom on 3rd zoom click. Opera7.54 Menu just starts to break right at 110%(one letter and pipe). Best, David -- http://www.dlaakso.com/ Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- http://www.dlaakso.com/ Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies!
On Wed, 29 Dec 2004 09:50:04 -0500, Lori Leach [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David, Thanks for looking... Apparently then there is nothing that I can do to keep the menu from breaking when you zoom as I have a fixed width design and not fluid. I am in a corner of sorts, as this is the layout he wants, refuses fluid, and this is the menu he wants. So I conclude that there is nothing I can do - right? Lori Leach ZenfulCreations Lori, Dunno. I can test-- however, I couldn't code my way out of a wet paper bag. I'd be willing to bet someone else on the list will be able to resolve this. David -- http://www.dlaakso.com/ Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies!
Lori Leach wrote: Apparently then there is nothing that I can do to keep the menu from breaking when you zoom as I have a fixed width design and not fluid. I am in a corner of sorts, as this is the layout he wants, refuses fluid, and this is the menu he wants. So I conclude that there is nothing I can do - right? Lori, There is a lot you can do-- if you think it's worth the extra work. That's up to you, of course, but it may pay of on a later job. I've had a look at this one, without really looking into the code / css. http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/index.htm It is a fine looking page, but it is a bit weak... :-) Fixed width isn't really a problem-- if the content can use the height for readjustments when we zoom text of force a minimum font size. Containers with no set height, or a min-height / IE/win height-hack set, would take up a lot of adjustment before anything would break or overflow. We don't use hacks to make web pages work across browserland - we use standard css for standard-compliant browsers. Only old browsers like IE/win is in need of hacks in most layouts. That's why many of us trim IE/win last, when all the standard-compliant browsers presents a web page styled as we like it. If you use IE/win as design-default, then you should at least test with IE's accessibility-options. IE/win can ignore your font sizes, and a web page should survive that option since it is one of the few options IE/win users have (although few are aware of it). It doesn't have to look perfect though. The same with the standard-compliant browsers like Opera, FF and Safari. Things will have to move away from pixel-perfection when we use text zoom options, but it's alright as long as the page can take it. Personally I zoom text on all web pages to at least 200%, and use minimum font size = 28px as a sort of benchmark. What font size the page has doesn't matter all that much if it can take this test. Few pages on the web can, and few will need to go this far. Those two images with text on top, in the right column, can't adjust of course, and because containers have fixed height there, the text will overlap if I change font size too much in a standard compliant browser. IE6 just pushes everything downwards, which at least keeps the text readable. Improvements are possible there. The footer has a similar, fixed, height-problem if I zoom text. In IE6 the height expands and the background-image repeats, so the text becomes dark on dark background. In the standard-compliant browsers the text overflows downwards. Should also be possible to improve on. There is a strange thing with the width on that page though, as its visible and centering part is less than 780px wide-- but it creates a scrollbar just below 1000px width. What makes your nav-bar act strange on text zoom is that the nav-bar expands outside the visible page-border, and into this extra space at the right side. If the page's real width was the same as the visible page, then the nav-bar would adjust into two lines-- which it does if I zoom high enough. That doesn't really break the page, and is something that is worth looking into. Plenty to do-- or ignore. :-) regards Georg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies!
Thank You Georg and everyone for your help. Georg, I will use much of what you have said to correct the pages. Again, thank you. The link for this however will no longer work, as the SEC needs to approve the content for them prior to publish, and I can't have it on my server for any length of time. Agian, thank you so much for your time and expertise. Lori Leach ZenfulCreations ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies!
Konqueror 3.0.5 Wow, amazing it works. CSS in Konq 3.0 is sooo bug ridden. Safaried Konq 3.3 behaves much better. IE4 - PC Ignore it. IE4 is suicidcal when it comes to CSS. All Versions of Opera If in Opera 6, you can ignore it. But if it breaks in latest Opera you have a problem. Opera 7.5 has one of the best CSS implementations around, so you should double-check your CSS against validator and specs (because CSS validator is absolutely dump in some cases :() -- regards, Kornel Lesiski ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies!
Lori Leach wrote: http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/ http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/c/global.css So - can I get a double check on the ones that appear to work okay, and some possible direction on what I need to do to get it to work right in the ones that don't... I really DON'T want to use hacks any more than absolutely necessary. As commented by others; text fonts are way too small, and your page is relying on that font size. Pixel-perfection based on font size is not reliable... No problems in any of my browsers: Opera 7.54 - Firefox 1.0 - IE6. - all on win2K-pro. However, no hacks will save it if a visitor knows anything about browser-options like minimum font size, text zoom or font size override (in IE/win). regards Georg ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Browser Check - such inconsistencies!
On 29 Dec 2004, at 9:21 am, Lori Leach wrote:
http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/
http://www.zenfulcreations.com/sites/sss/c/global.css
Netscape 6.2 - PC
IE5 - Mac (looks different at different resolutions)
IE4 - PC
All Versions of Opera
So - can I get a double check on the ones that appear to work okay,
and
some possible direction on what I need to do to get it to work right
in the
ones that don't... I really DON'T want to use hacks any more than
absolutely necessary.
Others have mentioned it, the body text in your left column is really
too small for me to read.
The right column drops below the left one in IE Mac; div#right is
floated but you didn't specify a width on it; hence it expands to the
full width of the parent container.
Give it a width (required for floats per CSS2.0), and it should work OK
Your top menu disappeared; a positioned object within a 100% high div
(100% of what ?) is asking for problems
#top {
position: relative
height: 100px /*height of graphic*/
}
#nav is doing nothing usefull
#nav div {
position:absolute;
/*width:500px; */
bottom:0;
right:0;
border-left:1px solid #00245D;
}
This should get your menu to show up.
#nav a are floated elements, again without a width, each block expands
to the full width of their parent.
Take a look at how I coded this navigation:
http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/phantom-links/inline-block_list.php
Using inline-block instead of float to deal with IE Mac.
HTH
Philippe
---/---
Philippe Wittenbergh
now live : http://emps.l-c-n.com/
code | design | web projects : http://www.l-c-n.com/
IE5 Mac bugs and oddities : http://www.l-c-n.com/IE5tests/
**
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm
for some hints on posting to the list getting help
**
