Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
I gave up on trying to use Dreamweaver after my recent upgrade on OS. My copy of MX is having issues (FTP related), and 04 doesn't have enough changes to justify the cost in an upgrade for me. Tried GoLive CS out but wasn't really impressed...just way too much junk for such a simple task. I always coded by hand in code view anyway, so I've decided to go back to a trusty FTP client and BBedit. So much easier now...G>. On Feb 25, 2004, at 06:32, JW wrote: x-tad-biggerUsing MX 04. Actually really want to tweak it the way it generates the html codes. Like if I am working with strict then I can tweak it to generate the html the way I want for xhtml strict./x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerHmm maybe dreamweaver can't be customised that way. Sounds rather far-fetch. /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ x-tad-bigger---Original Message---/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerFrom:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger[EMAIL PROTECTED]/x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerDate:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger 25/02/2004 7:22:53 PM/x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerTo:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger[EMAIL PROTECTED]/x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerSubject:/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?/x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerOn 25 Feb 2004, at 10:40, JW wrote:/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> Ooo I see! Thanks Andy / Martin!/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> Hmm any ideas in tweaking Dreamweaver to work with standards?/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerWhich version? I stopped using it at MX. You can tick 'Make all/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerdocument XHTML compliant' somewhere in preferences./x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> As for open target in new window, if I want a new window, how can I/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> achieve it with strict?/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerThere was the exact same discussion a few weeks ago on this board./x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggerJavascript was the main option (didn't pay much attention though). Do a/x-tad-bigger x-tad-biggersearch in the list for XHTML (OT??) on 7 Feb./x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> I guess is preferences really although I do notice lots of website do/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> not open up in new window but I will always open those links up in new/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> windows as I prefer to have the original page there to refer back to./x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> So to open links up in new windows or not is still a question to/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> me cause I prefer new window. But I will try to please the majority/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> :) /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> With Regards,/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> Jaime Wong/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> ~~~/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> SODesires Design Team/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerhttp://www.sodesires.com/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> ~~~/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> ---Original Message---/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> From: /x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger[EMAIL PROTECTED]/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> Date: 25/02/2004 5:53:53 PM/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> To: /x-tad-biggerx-tad-bigger[EMAIL PROTECTED]/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> Subject: Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> On 25 Feb 2004, at 09:12, JW wrote:/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> > Hi all/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> > /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> > I have copied a page from my website and make the DTD XHTML 1.0/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> Strict/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> > just to see the diff btwn transitional and strict. You can see it/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> here/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> > /x-tad-biggerx-tad-biggerhttp://www.sodesires.com/about/strict.html/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> > /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> > Well the xhtml validation shows error but even after reading the/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> > explanation of errors, I still could not really understand what they/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> > meant!/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> No Worries. They are all pretty simple, and pretty minor./x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> /x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> > Below are the results of attempting to parse this document with an/x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger> > SGML parser./x-tad-bigger x-tad-bigger&
Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Hi all I have copied a page from my website and make the DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict just to see the diff btwn transitional and strict. You can see it here http://www.sodesires.com/about/strict.html Well thexhtml validation shows error but even after reading the explanation of errors, I still could not really understand what they meant! Below are the results of attempting to parse this document with an SGML parser. Line 11, column 17: there is no attribute "language" (explain...). script language="_javascript_" src="" type="text/javasc ^ Line 38, column 85: there is no attribute "name" (explain...). .../header_title/about.gif" alt="" name="headertitle_default" width="235" height ^ Line 38, column 138: there is no attribute "border" (explain...). ...ault" width="235" height="80" border="0" id="headertitle_default" //div ^ Line 70, column 68: there is no attribute "target" (explain...). ...t.com/gallery/so_desires.php" target="_blank" class="aLeftCol"CSS Vault/a ^ Line 74, column 125: there is no attribute "hspace" (explain...). ... pixel" width="7" height="23" hspace="10" /:: /spanspan class="ttLeftCol" ^ With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~~~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 25/02/2004 2:30:59 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use? Hi Jaime, you may also find this article of some use. Addy: http://leavesrustle.com/articles/124/ Good luck. Regards, JG I have always work with XHTML 1.0 Transitional and never really bothered with Strict until I yesterday when someone sub a project to me saying that the client wanted the page done using Strict because it is the latest. Is being the latest the point in using strict? I find it kinda amusing. What's the difference actually between the 3 besides how the web generates the page and how do you decide which to use? Pondered over this because I have never tried working with strict and now that I have, W3C xhtml validator is showing bunch of errors which I have no idea why it could be errors. Basically limiting me to the core. Urggh! Why would a person decide when to use Strict? Wouldn't using transitional be easier for making it work with certain database, scripts etc like for e.g. movable type? Anyone has a link to an online tutorial with working with strict xhtml dtds besides those links at W3C? Sorry for this non CSS related topic but just hope the list could help clear my confusion :) With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * _ Why Pay $35 for a .COM, .NET or .ORG Web Address? iDotz.Net offers Cool Domains @ Great Prices! Starting @ $8.75 Go: http://www.idotz.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * . IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
On 25 Feb 2004, at 09:12, JW wrote: Hi all I have copied a page from my website and make the DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict just to see the diff btwn transitional and strict. You can see it here http://www.sodesires.com/about/strict.html Well the xhtml validation shows error but even after reading the explanation of errors, I still could not really understand what they meant! No Worries. They are all pretty simple, and pretty minor. Below are the results of attempting to parse this document with an SGML parser. 1. Line 11, column 17: there is no attribute language (explain...). script language=JavaScript src=../scripts/js/SODglobal.js type=text/javasc There is no language attribute in XHTML strict, so you should remove the language=javaScript bit ^ 2. Line 38, column 85: there is no attribute name (explain...). .../header_title/about.gif alt= name=headertitle_default width=235 height Again, there is no name attribute, use id instead ^ 3. Line 38, column 138: there is no attribute border (explain...). ...ault width=235 height=80 border=0 id=headertitle_default //div Get rid of border=0 and set this in your css ^ 4. Line 70, column 68: there is no attribute target (explain...). ...t.com/gallery/so_desires.php target=_blank class=aLeftColCSS Vault/a No target attribute. Get rid of this (opening up new windows is annoying anyway) ^ 5. Line 74, column 125: there is no attribute hspace (explain...). ... pixel width=7 height=23 hspace=10 /:: /spanspan class=ttLeftCol no hspace attribute. With XHTML strict you should really be aiming to move all presentational html into your css, so trash this as well. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Hi Jaime
On 25 Feb 2004, at 09:12, JW wrote:
Hi all
I have copied a page from my website and make the DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict
just to see the diff btwn transitional and strict. You can see it here
http://www.sodesires.com/about/strict.html
Well the xhtml validation shows error but even after reading the
explanation of errors, I still could not really understand what they
meant!
Below are the results of attempting to parse this document with an
SGML parser.
1. Line 11, column 17: there is no attribute language
(explain...).
script language=JavaScript src=../scripts/js/SODglobal.js
type=text/javasc
Not sure with Strict, I'll leave this to someone else...
^
2. Line 38, column 85: there is no attribute name (explain...).
.../header_title/about.gif alt= name=headertitle_default
width=235 height
No name attribute for img. Not too clued up on the reasons for this one
(apart from it being deprecated), but it's simple enough to remove.
^
3. Line 38, column 138: there is no attribute border
(explain...).
...ault width=235 height=80 border=0 id=headertitle_default
//div
Use CSS to take away borders (i.e. you can do this univerally to all
images by simply adding:
img { border: none; }
... to your CSS file(s).
^
4. Line 70, column 68: there is no attribute target (explain...).
...t.com/gallery/so_desires.php target=_blank
class=aLeftColCSS Vault/a
You've stumbled across a sore point for certain people using Strict...
you can't use target attribute in a link. YOu'll after dig out
javascript (or other means).
^
5. Line 74, column 125: there is no attribute hspace
(explain...).
... pixel width=7 height=23 hspace=10 /:: /spanspan
class=ttLeftCol
No hspace attribute in images either, use CSS to add margin to the
image.
All these are pretty elementary, and should stop you achieving
validation.
^
With Regards,
Jaime Wong
~~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~~
---Original Message---
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: 25/02/2004 2:30:59 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Hi Jaime, you may also find this article of some use.
Addy: http://leavesrustle.com/articles/124/
Good luck.
Regards, JG
I have always work with XHTML 1.0 Transitional and never really
bothered
with Strict until I yesterday when someone sub a project to me
saying that
the client wanted the page done using Strict because it is the
latest. Is
being the latest the point in using strict? I find it kinda amusing.
What's the difference actually between the 3 besides how the web
generates
the page and how do you decide which to use? Pondered over this
because I
have never tried working with strict and now that I have, W3C xhtml
validator is showing bunch of errors which I have no idea why it
could be
errors. Basically limiting me to the core. Urggh! Why would a person
decide
when to use Strict?
Wouldn't using transitional be easier for making it work with certain
database, scripts etc like for e.g. movable type?
Anyone has a link to an online tutorial with working with strict
xhtml
dtds
besides those links at W3C?
Sorry for this non CSS related topic but just hope the list could
help
clear
my confusion :)
With Regards,
Jaime Wong
~~~
SODesires Design Team
http://www.sodesires.com
~~~
*
The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/
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Kind regards
Martin Chapman
--
Web development, identity and design.
co-ord.com Limited
9 Tynwald Road
West Kirby
Merseyside
CH48 4DA
Tel: +44 (0)151 625 1443
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.co-ord.com
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Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Ooo I see! Thanks Andy/ Martin! Hmm any ideas in tweaking Dreamweaver to work with standards? As for open target in new window, if I want a new window, how can I achieve it with strict? I guessis preferences really although I do notice lots of website do not open up in new window but I will always open those links up in new windows as I prefer to have the original page there to refer back to. So to open links upin new windows or not isstill a question to mecause I prefer new window. But I will try to please the majority :) With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 25/02/2004 5:53:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use? On 25 Feb 2004, at 09:12, JW wrote: Hi all I have copied a page from my website and make the DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict just to see the diff btwn transitional and strict. You can see it here http://www.sodesires.com/about/strict.html Well thexhtml validation shows error but even after reading the explanation of errors, I still could not really understand what they meant! No Worries. They are all pretty simple, and pretty minor. Below are the results of attempting to parse this document with an SGML parser. 1. Line 11, column 17: there is no attribute "language" (explain...). script language="_javascript_" src="" type="text/javasc There is no language attribute in XHTML strict, so you should remove the language="_javascript_" bit ^ 2. Line 38, column 85: there is no attribute "name" (explain...). .../header_title/about.gif" alt="" name="headertitle_default" width="235" height Again, there is no name attribute, use id instead ^ 3. Line 38, column 138: there is no attribute "border" (explain...). ...ault" width="235" height="80" border="0" id="headertitle_default" //div Get rid of border="0" and set this in your css ^ 4. Line 70, column 68: there is no attribute "target" (explain...). ...t.com/gallery/so_desires.php" target="_blank" class="aLeftCol"CSS Vault/a No target attribute. Get rid of this (opening up new windows is annoying anyway) ^ 5. Line 74, column 125: there is no attribute "hspace" (explain...). ... pixel" width="7" height="23" hspace="10" /:: /spanspan class="ttLeftCol" no hspace attribute. With XHTML strict you should really be aiming to move all presentational html into your css, so trash this as well. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * . IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
El mié, 25-02-2004 a las 11:40, JW escribió: Ooo I see! Thanks Andy / Martin! Hmm any ideas in tweaking Dreamweaver to work with standards? As for open target in new window, if I want a new window, how can I achieve it with strict? When switching DOCTYPEs isn't an option, try the method suggested here http://www.sitepoint.com/article/1041 . -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
UsingMX 04. Actually really want to tweak it the way it generates the html codes. Like if I am working with strict thenI cantweakit to generate the html the way I want forxhtml strict. Hmm maybe dreamweaver can't becustomised that way. Sounds rather far-fetch. With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 25/02/2004 7:22:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use? On 25 Feb 2004, at 10:40, JW wrote: Ooo I see! Thanks Andy/ Martin! Hmm any ideas in tweaking Dreamweaver to work with standards? Which version? I stopped using it at MX. You can tick 'Make all document XHTML compliant' somewhere in preferences. As for open target in new window, if I want a new window, how can I achieve it with strict? There was the exact same discussion a few weeks ago on this board. _javascript_ was the main option (didn't pay much attention though). Do a search in the list for XHTML(OT??) on 7 Feb. I guessis preferences really although I do notice lots of website do not open up in new window but I will always open those links up in new windows as I prefer to have the original page there to refer back to. So to open links upin new windows or not isstill a question to mecause I prefer new window. But I will try to please the majority :) With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 25/02/2004 5:53:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use? On 25 Feb 2004, at 09:12, JW wrote: Hi all I have copied a page from my website and make the DTD XHTML 1.0 Strict just to see the diff btwn transitional and strict. You can see it here http://www.sodesires.com/about/strict.html Well thexhtml validation shows error but even after reading the explanation of errors, I still could not really understand what they meant! No Worries. They are all pretty simple, and pretty minor. Below are the results of attempting to parse this document with an SGML parser. 1. Line 11, column 17: there is no attribute "language" (explain...). script language="_javascript_" src="" type="text/javasc There is no language attribute in XHTML strict, so you should remove the language="_javascript_" bit ^ 2. Line 38, column 85: there is no attribute "name" (explain...). .../header_title/about.gif" alt="" name="headertitle_default" width="235" height Again, there is no name attribute, use id instead ^ 3. Line 38, column 138: there is no attribute "border" (explain...). ...ault" width="235" height="80" border="0" id="headertitle_default" //div Get rid of border="0" and set this in your css ^ 4. Line 70, column 68: there is no attribute "target" (explain...). ...t.com/gallery/so_desires.php" target="_blank" class="aLeftCol"CSS Vault/a No target attribute. Get rid of this (opening up new windows is annoying anyway) ^ 5. Line 74, column 125: there is no attribute "hspace" (explain...). ... pixel" width="7" height="23" hspace="10" /:: /spanspan class="ttLeftCol" no hspace attribute. With XHTML strict you should really be aiming to move all presentational html into your css, so trash this as well. Andy Budd http://www.message.uk.com/ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * . image.tiff IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here Kind regards Martin Chapman -- Web development, identity and design. co-ord.com Limited 9 Tynwald Road West Kirby Merseyside CH48 4DA Tel: +44 (0)151 625 1443 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.co-ord.com -- * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
RE: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Yes, I use dreamweaver for all flavours of XHTML. You can customise it by editing the template files if what you want isnt in the preferences. In a default installation on windows theyre in c:\program files\macromedia\Dreamweaver MX 2004\configuration you can use any text editor to change the default documents there, including the doctypes. Also theres a command to convert a document to xhtml and when you do the command menu changes from clean up html to clean up xhtml. Then it tidies up all the issues like lower case tags, closing tags, correct nesting etc etc. Its not perfect but its pretty good. Also when your document is xhtml itll fix your syntax as you write. If you open a paragraph tag, itll automatically close it too. Same with li and td and tr tags. Macromedia have done a LOT of work with the various standards interested parties to get these kinds of features into the product. Its by far the best version of dreamweaver ever. I was a sceptic until I was forced to learn it to be compatible with a clients setup and Im totally sold on it. Ive let go of most of my other tools now. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com From: JW [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, 25 February 2004 10:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use? UsingMX 04. Actually really want to tweak it the way it generates the html codes. Like if I am working with strict thenI cantweakit to generate the html the way I want forxhtml strict. Hmm maybe dreamweaver can't becustomised that way. Sounds rather far-fetch. With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~
RE: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
El mié, 25-02-2004 a las 15:02, JW escribió: Line 89, column 11: there is no attribute name (explain...). form name=service id=service method=post action= form_service/dodosmail.p Yes, in Strict there's no name attribute for the form element, use id instead. Note that name *IS NOT* deprecated for form elements such as input, just for the form element itself (this is a common misunderstanding) ^ Line 91, column 88: document type does not allow element input here; missing one of p, h1, h2, h3, h4, h5, h6, div, pre, address, fieldset, ins, del start-tag ...subject,name,email,country,message / ^ Enclose the inputs within a block element such as p or div / Example: http://www.simplebits.com/bits/simplequiz/#entry579 Is that all? Congrats, then :) -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Thank you very much Manuel.Now everything validates and converted all pages on my site except for thefavourite linksas I have the links to open up in new pages. Now I am confident to convert client's site to XHTML 1.0 Strict. Couldn't do this with everyone's kind assistance! Once again thanks all!!! With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 25/02/2004 11:51:33 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] DTDS and which to use? El mié, 25-02-2004 a las 15:02, JW escribió: Line 89, column 11: there is no attribute "name" (explain...). form name="service" id="service" method="post" action=""> form_service/dodosmail.p Yes, in Strict there's no "name" attribute for the form element, use "id" instead. Note that "name" *IS NOT* deprecated for form elements such as input, just for the form element itself (this is a common misunderstanding) ^ Line 91, column 88: document type does not allow element "input" here; missing one of "p", "h1", "h2", "h3", "h4", "h5", "h6", "div", "pre", address", "fieldset", "ins", "del" start-tag ...subject,name,email,country,message" / ^ Enclose the inputs within a block element such as p or div / Example: http://www.simplebits.com/bits/simplequiz/#entry579 Is that all? Congrats, then :) -- Manuel González Noriega Simplelógica, construcción web URL: http://simplelogica.net EMAIL: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TELEFONO: (+34) 985 22 12 65 Logicola es el weblog de Simplelógica http://simplelogica.net/logicola/ /pThat's right. We said Frontpage./p * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * . IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
RE: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Well done Jaime, I remember only a couple of weeks ago when I converted my first one. I nearly wore out my delete key getting rid of all the extraneous crap on my pages. The size of the site is a fraction of what it was now, even though the content is the same. And I bet your site is now cleaner, leaner, faster to load and more consistent than it was. And you make note of how much time you spend on maintaining it, compared to what it used to take you. Welcome to the modern world! Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com From: JW [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, 26 February 2004 3:42 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] DTDS and which to use? Thank you very much Manuel. Now everything validates and converted all pages on my site except for the favourite links as I have the links to open up in new pages. Now I am confident to convert client's site to XHTML 1.0 Strict. Couldn't do this with everyone's kind assistance! Once again thanks all!!! With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Hi Jaime, the W3Schools is a useful page. You can learn more about the diferences using this link: http://www.w3schools.com/xhtml/xhtml_dtd.asp Regards, Gean I have always work with XHTML 1.0 Transitional and never really bothered with Strict until I yesterday when someone sub a project to me saying that the client wanted the page done using Strict because it is the latest. Is being the latest the point in using strict? I find it kinda amusing. What's the difference actually between the 3 besides how the web generates the page and how do you decide which to use? Pondered over this because I have never tried working with strict and now that I have, W3C xhtml validator is showing bunch of errors which I have no idea why it could be errors. Basically limiting me to the core. Urggh! Why would a person decide when to use Strict? Wouldn't using transitional be easier for making it work with certain database, scripts etc like for e.g. movable type? Anyone has a link to an online tutorial with working with strict xhtml dtds besides those links at W3C? Sorry for this non CSS related topic but just hope the list could help clear my confusion :) With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
RE: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Jaime, this is not a CSS list so no apology required. You are definitely on-topic. Unless you want to tell your client to go all the way I suggest you tell them that they are clutching for buzzwords by demanding XHTML 1.0 Strict (or anything beyond XHTML 1.0 Transitional). If they continue to demand it and you want to do it properly, you'll need to change the mime-type of the documents sent in the header from the server and do it properly. No argument what-so-ever if you do it properly and actually have a need to use the structured data. I doubt that you do have that need. I recommend (as we at webboy do frequently with (potential) clients touting buzzwords) that you re-educate the client, and if it's only page mark-up you need (with no structured data required in the document) then HTML 4.01 is arguably still the latest appropriate mark-up language to use. If you haven't seen it already, please read the Mark Stanton message on the subject. http://www.mail-archive.com/wsg%40webstandardsgroup.org/msg00572.html P * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Hi Jaime, you may also find this article of some use. Addy: http://leavesrustle.com/articles/124/ Good luck. Regards, JG I have always work with XHTML 1.0 Transitional and never really bothered with Strict until I yesterday when someone sub a project to me saying that the client wanted the page done using Strict because it is the latest. Is being the latest the point in using strict? I find it kinda amusing. What's the difference actually between the 3 besides how the web generates the page and how do you decide which to use? Pondered over this because I have never tried working with strict and now that I have, W3C xhtml validator is showing bunch of errors which I have no idea why it could be errors. Basically limiting me to the core. Urggh! Why would a person decide when to use Strict? Wouldn't using transitional be easier for making it work with certain database, scripts etc like for e.g. movable type? Anyone has a link to an online tutorial with working with strict xhtml dtds besides those links at W3C? Sorry for this non CSS related topic but just hope the list could help clear my confusion :) With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * _ Why Pay $35 for a .COM, .NET or .ORG Web Address? iDotz.Net offers Cool Domains @ Great Prices! Starting @ $8.75 Go: http://www.idotz.net * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Hi Gean Thanks! Now I know what strict is for ;) I really should try to build a test site during free timeon strict and make sure it VALIDATES! The requirements sure looks funny to me...allthose errorswhen validated. With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 02/24/04 23:11:40 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use? Hi Jaime, the W3Schools is a useful page. You can learn more about the diferences using this link: http://www.w3schools.com/xhtml/xhtml_dtd.asp Regards, Gean I have always work with XHTML 1.0 Transitional and never really bothered with Strict until I yesterday when someone sub a project to me saying that the client wanted the page done using Strict because it is the latest. Is being the latest the point in using strict? I find it kinda amusing. What's the difference actually between the 3 besides how the web generates the page and how do you decide which to use? Pondered over this because I have never tried working with strict and now that I have, W3C xhtml validator is showing bunch of errors which I have no idea why it could be errors. Basically limiting me to the core. Urggh! Why would a person decide when to use Strict? Wouldn't using transitional be easier for making it work with certain database, scripts etc like for e.g. movable type? Anyone has a link to an online tutorial with working with strict xhtml dtds besides those links at W3C? Sorry for this non CSS related topic but just hope the list could help clear my confusion :) With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * . IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
RE: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Uhhh this project requiresrebuilding the site from tables to css and to xhtml strict. I can feel my nightmare next to me already. I do not know why W3C validator is validating those codes as error when it looks perfectly fine to me.Unless the codings are very different from transitional DTD? 2morrow I am going to spend my entire day studying this XHTML strict. With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 02/25/04 02:59:21 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] DTDS and which to use? I've found for new sites without a lot of forms or pre-existing content, building to XHTML1.0 Strict makes sure I have a disciplined, well structured site that quite easily validates and styles with CSS.I have to keep applying discipline to rid myself of old sloppy coding habits.Validating to XHTML1.0 strict is like my childhood piano teacher sitting next to me with a ruler rapping me on the knuckles when I got my scales wrong.A pain in the neck (well actually knuckles) but splendid way to learn the discipline required to do the job properly. However re-building an existing site to XHTML1.0 Strict is a nightmare. It's far too tight a standard to build to, and not enough benefits to justify the effort involved, unless the client's willing to pay me to do it. (Haven't found one that cares that much yet).In fact for one site, the best I could do was make sure it validated to HTML4.01 transitional.But at least it validated which is more than it did before!I'll tighten it up next time around. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * . IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here
Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Hi At ALA http://alistapart.com/articles/doctype/ It's about using the right doctype, rather than a background on them - but may help out. Cheers James JW wrote: Uhhh this project requires rebuilding the site from tables to css and to xhtml strict. I can feel my nightmare next to me already. I do not know why W3C validator is validating those codes as error when it looks perfectly fine to me. Unless the codings are very different from transitional DTD? 2morrow I am going to spend my entire day studying this XHTML strict. With Regards, Jaime Wong ~~~ SODesires Design Team http://www.sodesires.com ~~~ ---Original Message--- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: 02/25/04 02:59:21 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [WSG] DTDS and which to use? I've found for new sites without a lot of forms or pre-existing content, building to XHTML1.0 Strict makes sure I have a disciplined, well structured site that quite easily validates and styles with CSS. I have to keep applying discipline to rid myself of old sloppy coding habits. Validating to XHTML1.0 strict is like my childhood piano teacher sitting next to me with a ruler rapping me on the knuckles when I got my scales wrong. A pain in the neck (well actually knuckles) but splendid way to learn the discipline required to do the job properly. However re-building an existing site to XHTML1.0 Strict is a nightmare. It's far too tight a standard to build to, and not enough benefits to justify the effort involved, unless the client's willing to pay me to do it. (Haven't found one that cares that much yet). In fact for one site, the best I could do was make sure it validated to HTML4.01 transitional. But at least it validated which is more than it did before! I'll tighten it up next time around. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ * . * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
Re: [WSG] DTDS and which to use?
Hi Jaime, Slightly off the discussion but I can't help thinking that if I was you in that chain of command... Client --- Design Firm --- Subcontracted Freelancer -- Sub-subcontracted You ...I'd be very wary of work that has supposedly strict guidelines to follow yet the flow of project information is so stretched. I don't know about everyone else here but I think that clients generally need guidance/recommendation/advice/etc... particularly with regards to standards based development and I cannot see how well you can do that from such a distance. Anyway, not wishing to interfere, just a thought I couldn't hold in and was curious as to whether anyone else thought so. Nick Now I just need to convince my freelance boss to convince his client which happens to be a design house to convince their client about the pro and cons of using XHTML Strict DTD. Just hope the message will not get messed up down the line. From the corresponding emails I have seen, the client is one that is very sure of his judgements (even provided few web links and articles..A list apart was one of them) so well...it is going to be a challenge to make him understand because he feels that he has all the relevant info which some aren't actually. And if all else fails..I guess I better prepare myself in advance now and start building a test site using xhtml strict. * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ *
