RE: [WSG] newspaper format
Patrick H. Lauke wrote: You should avoid presentational class names. May be overkill, but possibly opt for something like class=firstsection Just a quick question; Why should you avoid presentational class names? Giles ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] newspaper format
Hi, Giles Just because if you do, you do not really separate content from presentation... If you say that a title is red, 12px and you call it red12, after the site's redesign, for exemple, the title will be Black, 14px, bold and your style name obsolete. Instead, call it title... or, better, use Hx... (in the case of titles, of course). Cheers! Angela -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] la part de Giles Clark Envoyé : vendredi 15 avril 2005 13:54 À : wsg@webstandardsgroup.org Objet : RE: [WSG] newspaper format Patrick H. Lauke wrote: You should avoid presentational class names. May be overkill, but possibly opt for something like class=firstsection Just a quick question; Why should you avoid presentational class names? Giles ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] newspaper format
On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 12:54:21 +0100, Giles Clark wrote: Just a quick question; Why should you avoid presentational class names? Well, a pretty simple example is: body div id=leftCol .. some content ... /div div id=rightCol ... some other content ... /div /body One major point of CSS is that we can change the layout with changing the markup. When we first designed this page we had leftCol on the left and (duh) rightCol on the right. Then the client got to thinking and wanted to switch them around. Not only is this a *sigh* but its also an *oops* because once we are done, our markup will not only not be semantic (for some values of the word) but it will be misleading for the next poor sod that maintains this page. Names which indicate what a block is doing or what it contains are far better and useful than names that store potentially transient details about the block HIH! Lea ~ looking for a permanent position in Brisbane. Contact me for CV. -- Lea de Groot Elysian Systems - I Understand the Internet http://elysiansystems.com/ Search Engine Optimisation, Usability, Information Architecture, Web Design Brisbane, Australia ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
RE: [WSG] newspaper format
Giles Clark
Just a quick question; Why should you avoid presentational
class names?
It goes back to the idea of separating content and presentation.
Your classnames should reflect what the element they're applied to
*is* (its qualities, if you will) rather than *how* it's displayed.
Imagine, for instance, that you decide later on that your layout needs
to be different. Rather than recode all your HTML, you want to simply
be able to change your CSS. Say you recode the CSS to a single column
layout. Now, you have pieces of HTML marked as leftcol or something
(can't remember your original URL, so going from memory), which now
don't mean anything anymore. Take it to an extreme (and I speak from
experience, having inherited a rather large site which used this
exact thing) and imagine somebody defining a class called redtext
.redtext { color: #f00; }
Great, but a year down the line they decide they want to change the
colour to green...so what do they do? They just change the CSS
.redtext { color: #0f0; }
So now you have a class called redtext which makes your text green.
At the very least, this becomes a maintenance nightmare. Yes, from a
technology/syntax point of view it's not an issue (the browser doesn't
care either way what the actual name is), but it makes life difficult
for you, the maintainer.
See also http://www.w3.org/QA/Tips/goodclassnames
Hope this makes sense,
Patrick
Patrick H. Lauke
Webmaster / University of Salford
http://www.salford.ac.uk
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Re: [WSG] newspaper format
At 04:44 AM 4/14/2005, designer wrote: I have been trying to present the information relating to a novel in a more interesting style than 'just text' or indeed three columns, and have experimented with a sort of newspaper style. The newspaper is a fictitious one which is mentioned often in the novel, and my effort can be seen (in isolation from the rest of the site) at: http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/bren/newspaper/news.html Bob, Your two-column 'newspaper' format works for me cosmetically but not as markup. I would replace this markup: div class=colleft pFirst paragraph.br / br / Second paragraph./p /div with this: div class=colleft pFirst paragraph./p pSecond paragraph./p /div You seem to be using the line-break tags to control presentation from html, but I can't see why you'd need to do so given your XHTML+CSS toolset. Tangentially, you might be interested to see John D. Berry's recent work with a two-column digital book (in PDF format, not html): his article on the design process is at http://www.creativepro.com/story/feature/22736.html Regards, Paul ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] newspaper format
Thanks Paul,
- Original Message -
From: Paul Novitski [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: webstandards group wsg@webstandardsgroup.org
Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 1:26 PM
Subject: Re: [WSG] newspaper format
[snip]
Bob,
Your two-column 'newspaper' format works for me cosmetically but not as
markup. I would replace this markup:
div class=colleft
pFirst paragraph.br /
br /
Second paragraph./p
/div
with this:
div class=colleft
pFirst paragraph./p
pSecond paragraph./p
/div
You seem to be using the line-break tags to control presentation from
html,
but I can't see why you'd need to do so given your XHTML+CSS toolset.
You are right of course, and I knew I had work to do on getting things
'proper'. I used the breaks as an easy stop gap whilst sorting the layout -
the paras were reduced to no spacing because of my *{margin : 0; padding :
0} declaration at the top of the CSS. I've added a bottom margin to the
paras now, and deleted the breaks.
Thanks too for the John D. Berry link too - Interesting!
Bob McClelland,
Cornwall (U.K.)
www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk
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Re: [WSG] newspaper format
Paul Novitski wrote: div class=colleft You should avoid presentational class names. May be overkill, but possibly opt for something like class=firstsection -- Patrick H. Lauke _ re·dux (adj.): brought back; returned. used postpositively [latin : re-, re- + dux, leader; see duke.] www.splintered.co.uk | www.photographia.co.uk http://redux.deviantart.com ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] newspaper format
Bob, Looks good on Mac (OSX 10.3.8 15 inch G4 PowerBook Firefox / Safari) and PC (XP Firefox / IE). 3 col xhtml is tricky, I know! In case you are interested in an actual 3 column newspaper website in xhtml check out the San Francisco Examiner at http://www.sfexaminer.com/ . Good Luck, Brian On 4/14/05, designer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Guys and gals, I have been trying to present the information relating to a novel in a more interesting style than 'just text' or indeed three columns, and have experimented with a sort of newspaper style. The newspaper is a fictitious one which is mentioned often in the novel, and my effort can be seen (in isolation from the rest of the site) at: http://www.treyarnon.fsworld.co.uk/bren/newspaper/news.html The original design I produced and am modifying can be seen at www.novelnovella.com . I have used floats (of course!) and the 'layout is supposed to work like: banner header leftcol rightcol banner leftcol rightcol etc I would be most grateful for any general feedback : does it work as a design? Does it work (esp on MAC) as it's supposed to? Is there anything glaringly bad about it? You get the idea. It works for me in FF1.0, IE6, IE5.5, Opera 7, all on PC. Many thanks, Bob McClelland, Cornwall (U.K.) www.gwelanmor-internet.co.uk ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** -- Brian Ussery [EMAIL PROTECTED] b e ussery imagery co. http://www.beussery.com 706.296.3446 905.935.4396f be unlimited! ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
