Re: [WSG] css and accessibility question
Hi Luc, It's my understanding that if you want the page to validate and pass some basic 508 stuff, ALT tags must be present for any images that are included in the page markup. I have seen before (perhaps ALA?) that if the image is decorative a simple null would surfice as an ALT tag. I think this, like most things, involves a bit of preference and I don't believe there is a definitive answer. Using a CSS image replacement technique (and there are a few available) is always a valid option but comes with it's own series of issues (what happens when images are disabled? etc...) So what to do? I (notice the preference) tend to use CSS background images where I can unless the img serves a real purpose, then it's included in the markup and ALT tagged appropriately. Hope that helped, Brian Luc wrote: Good evening list, My understanding is that an image _always_ needs a description for accessibility purposes, even if the image is there for decorative purposes and adds no important information to the page. Now, somebody told me that, if the image is there purely for decorative purposes and adds no important information to the page, it doesn't need a description and putting it in CSS as background image makes sense. However, if the image needs a description, it should be in the html because it is content. If you do put it in the css and give a title to the div, it is wrong use of css. Is this correct and am i wrong? In the (odd) case i'm right, is there some spec that states that an image always needs a description? * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] IE5 v Mozilla
Hi Alan, Try: table width=100% Brian Alan Milnes wrote: Can anyone tell me what causes the table under Latest Results not to take the whole 100% width of the div?? http://www.gameplan.org.uk/ http://www.gameplan.org.uk/styles/gplan.css Thanks Alan * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] 'It Works in Gecko Browsers ...'
I know IE is a *huge* market leader, and I *do* make sure my sites work in IE... I agree fully with the design for compliant browsers first, then go back and fix IE* way of doing things. From my own personal experience I can tell you it is in fact easier that way. I think it's ill advised though to let that get confused with IE is an afterthought My experience is that clients have the make it look good on my AOL when I make internets from home mentality. Most don't understand standards and we can't expect them to. They bark back things like don't worry about that, we redesign every other year when you mention future proofing and just make sure it looks good is the mantra. Because of IE's *huge* market share, when the client says just make sure it looks good whether they know it or not, they are also adding in IE. After all, when they show it to three friends who show it to three friends the odds tell us they are all going to be using IE. My issue is with the simple, often tossed in there has to work in IE bit, that in my opinion falls way short of expressing the real world business importance of a site looking top notch in IE. If it's work for a client, It doesn't just have to simply work in IE, it's has to *shine*. At the very least a client site should never look any worse in IE then it does in a compliant browser. Does an element look off?, even a little bit?, fix it for IE even if that means it looks a little off in Moz when your done. Neato CSS trick fails in IE? Dump it, at that point it's nothing but bloat for the majority who won't see it (including your client). Someday MS will get on the ball (we hope), until then, if we want to make sites for the majority, we have to stop looking down our noses at IE as a bastard afterthought and start insisting from ourselves that our sites look and function brilliantly in IE, every time. Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] 'It Works in Gecko Browsers ...'
One more thing will be required: Web pages need to be better on compliant browsers. So in an effort to coax standards compliance out of MS we should all make sites look *beter* in non IE browsers? I've yet to run across a client who loves standards and MS arm twisting so much that they would allow anything other then IE to be the browser there site looks *better* in. It look us long enough to get clients to pay attention to the fact that the customer/user is king, and the king, like it or not, uses IE. We can't have it both ways. Either we are for the user or we are not. Keep that in mind the next time your pulling hair out tweaking a clients site for IE. Chances are better then good, that IE is the browser that is going to hit that site most today, tomorrow and the day after. Brian * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] Help with Float
Hi Sean, Looks like you have to clear those floats. Try adding a div with clear: both; just below the last column. Brian Sean Sullivan-Daley wrote: I am trying to float 3 columns next to each other. This appearas to be OK in IE6 but is broken in FireFox. The columns break out of the container in FireFox. Here is a link to the Files. http://sean.ashtonweb.com/test/ http://sean.ashtonweb.com/test/css/style2.css What am I doing wrong? -Sean * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help * * The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help *
Re: [WSG] The F-word (frames that is)
Ted Drake wrote: I'm putting together our new web site css-layout. There are a few web sites that put our site into their frameset. If they take my lovely css-formatted page and stick it in their ugly, poorly styled web page built with nasty frames... Could their stylesheet over-ride my style sheet or will the separate html of my page withstand the abuse? Can you tell how happy I am with frames? Ted The good news is, unless some nasty JavaScript targeting the frame your site loads in is put to use, the site that frames you in will do nothing other then load your page as is. Brian ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
Re: [WSG] Adopting Web Standards - Free briefing for Education and Government
Sounds great I can see this being very beneficial, especially if done on a wide scale. In the spirit of spreading the knowledge and advocating standards in Gov't, it would be excellent if once you are done, you could post all of your slides/notes on the net. If you can go the extra mile and get us a transcript of the seminar that would be super helpfull in organizing similar free seminars here in the us. Brian russ - maxdesign wrote: Adopting Web Standards Free briefing for Education and Government Government and education are at the forefront of the adoption of web standards. To aid in this process, Web Essentials is hosting this free briefing, featuring the W3Cs Dean Jackson, and highly respected web accessibility expert Roger Hudson. The briefing will be followed by the opportunity to ask any questions of Roger, Dean, as well as Russ Weakley and John Allsopp, over a drink and a bite to eat. There will also be door prizes :) Cost: FREE! Date: Thursday September 2, 2004 Time: 6:00pm for 6.30pm start (refreshments supplied) Venue: TBA RSVP: [EMAIL PROTECTED] More: http://we04.com/education.cfm ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help ** ** The discussion list for http://webstandardsgroup.org/ Proud presenters of Web Essentials 04 http://we04.com/ Web standards, accessibility, inspiration, knowledge To be held in Sydney, September 30 and October 1, 2004 See http://webstandardsgroup.org/mail/guidelines.cfm for some hints on posting to the list getting help **
