Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode...
> On Jan 21, 2019, at 13:19, Paul Kube wrote: > > yes; but letting auto seq run works just fine most of the time. Toggling > Enable off only to toggle it on at the beginning of the next cycle is very > often superfluous. Don’t forget - it is fine to start several seconds late in the sequence most of the time. Gary - AG0N ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode...
> Try turning it on its head, Paul. Pre-decide NOT to transmit on the *next* cycle by deselecting > Enable Tx during the *current* cycle … unless you spot something in the decodes that > makes you change your mind, in which case you reselect Enable Tx. Hi Gary, yes; but letting auto seq run works just fine most of the time. Toggling Enable off only to toggle it on at the beginning of the next cycle is very often superfluous. Plus it requires thinking ahead a bit, which I find I'm not always able to do. Anyway, I have my vote in for getting decode to work, if possible, in cycles where transmit has been halted in the first few seconds. Thanks! 73, Paul K6PO On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 4:11 PM Gary Hinson wrote: > Try turning it on its head, Paul. Pre-decide NOT to transmit on the > *next* cycle by deselecting Enable Tx during the *current* cycle … unless > you spot something in the decodes that makes you change your mind, in which > case you reselect Enable Tx. > > > > Slightly delayed transmissions are generally decoded OK. You have about 5 > seconds to make your mind up. Beyond that, your transmissions *may* not > be decoded (but you might still be lucky!). > > > > [Another handy thing about delayed starts is that you can see whether your > transmit frequency is busy or clear during the periods when you would > otherwise be transmitting.] > > > > We’re not saying your change proposal is unnecessary, unhelpful or not a > good idea, simply offering a pragmatic workaround that gives most of the > user benefit with none of the development costs. > > 73 > Gary ZL2iFB > > > > *From:* Paul Kube > *Sent:* 18 January 2019 11:05 > *To:* WSJT software development > *Subject:* Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode... > > > > Gary and Gary, > > > > But I want to stop transmitting near the start of a cycle, and still see > decodes from that cycle. As you point out, deselecting Enable doesn't do > that. > > > > The problem arises when I don't know whether I want to continue > transmitting until I see the decodes from a cycle. For examples: I called a > station off frequency, and I see they didn't hear me and I'd rather not > call again. Or, I'm calling CQ, see no replies, and I don't want to CQ > again. It takes me a second or two to look at the decode list and decide I > want to listen instead of transmit. So autosequence has me transmitting a > little into the start of the next cycle, but I want to stop and see decodes > in that cycle instead. > > > > Both of those examples could be handled better and faster by options > within WSJT-X, so if that were implemented with checkboxes I'd be pretty > happy. (Already happens with on-frequency calls to a CQing station.) Which > might be easier than modifying the decode code to handle starting late in a > cycle, I don't know. > > > > 73, Paul K6PO > > > > On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 1:43 PM Gary Hinson wrote: > > Friends, > > > > Try deselecting *Enable Tx* prior to the start of the next cycle instead > of hitting the *Halt Tx* button. Think of the *Halt Tx* button as a big > angry red emergency stop button that slams the brakes on and drops > everything. It drops the anchor. > > > > Deselecting Enable TX is not so abrupt, and not so tight on timing: if you > deselect it at any point in a transmission, the remainder of that > transmission continues to the end as normal but your *next* transmission > doesn’t happen. It’s more elegant. More refined. Less screeching of > tyres. > > > > Find this and other pragmatic tips in the FT8 Operating Guide > <http://www.g4ifb.com/FT8_Hinson_tips_for_HF_DXers.pdf>. > > > > 73, > > Gary ZL2iFB > > > > > > *From:* WB5JJJ > *Sent:* 18 January 2019 10:12 > *To:* WSJT software development > *Subject:* Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode... > > > > I've noticed that as well. Been this way for many versions back. Once > the Tx cycle has been initiated (i.e. odd or even Tx has started), and if > you then click Halt Tx, the radio will go to receive, the WF will show the > signals, but none are decoded for the aborted Tx cycle. At the start of > the next cycle, all is normal. > > > > WB5JJJ - George > > > > On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 3:01 PM Paul Kube wrote: > > > > If I cancel my own transmission right at the beginning of a cycle, I see > no decodes at all for that cycle. > > > > For example, say I'm CQing on even cycles. After a couple, I decide I want > to stop CQing if I don't get any replies, so I hit Halt Tx as soon as I see > the list of decodes from a just-finished odd cycle. Maybe I
Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode...
This is actually fixable. WSJT-X (in FT8 mode) depends on 50 data frames from the sound card. If it doesn't get 50 it doesn't record the wav file. You can't miss more than about 600ms of audio This could be changed to always record the WAV file at the end of the transmit period for the mode in operation instead of the frame count. de Mike W9MDB On Thursday, January 17, 2019, 11:25:34 PM CST, Gary McDuffie wrote: > On Jan 17, 2019, at 15:04, Paul Kube wrote: > > Which might be easier than modifying the decode code to handle starting late >in a cycle, I don't know. I’ve tested and know that you can miss the first 5 seconds of an incoming transmission and still decode it fine if they have a decent signal. Same goes for the last 5 seconds, but you can’t miss both ends. I wouldn’t count on being able to decode a weak signal that way though. Gary - AG0N ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode...
> On Jan 17, 2019, at 15:04, Paul Kube wrote: > > Which might be easier than modifying the decode code to handle starting late > in a cycle, I don't know. I’ve tested and know that you can miss the first 5 seconds of an incoming transmission and still decode it fine if they have a decent signal. Same goes for the last 5 seconds, but you can’t miss both ends. I wouldn’t count on being able to decode a weak signal that way though. Gary - AG0N ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode...
Try turning it on its head, Paul. Pre-decide NOT to transmit on the next cycle by deselecting Enable Tx during the current cycle … unless you spot something in the decodes that makes you change your mind, in which case you reselect Enable Tx. Slightly delayed transmissions are generally decoded OK. You have about 5 seconds to make your mind up. Beyond that, your transmissions may not be decoded (but you might still be lucky!). [Another handy thing about delayed starts is that you can see whether your transmit frequency is busy or clear during the periods when you would otherwise be transmitting.] We’re not saying your change proposal is unnecessary, unhelpful or not a good idea, simply offering a pragmatic workaround that gives most of the user benefit with none of the development costs. 73 Gary ZL2iFB From: Paul Kube Sent: 18 January 2019 11:05 To: WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode... Gary and Gary, But I want to stop transmitting near the start of a cycle, and still see decodes from that cycle. As you point out, deselecting Enable doesn't do that. The problem arises when I don't know whether I want to continue transmitting until I see the decodes from a cycle. For examples: I called a station off frequency, and I see they didn't hear me and I'd rather not call again. Or, I'm calling CQ, see no replies, and I don't want to CQ again. It takes me a second or two to look at the decode list and decide I want to listen instead of transmit. So autosequence has me transmitting a little into the start of the next cycle, but I want to stop and see decodes in that cycle instead. Both of those examples could be handled better and faster by options within WSJT-X, so if that were implemented with checkboxes I'd be pretty happy. (Already happens with on-frequency calls to a CQing station.) Which might be easier than modifying the decode code to handle starting late in a cycle, I don't know. 73, Paul K6PO On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 1:43 PM Gary Hinson mailto:g...@isect.com> > wrote: Friends, Try deselecting Enable Tx prior to the start of the next cycle instead of hitting the Halt Tx button. Think of the Halt Tx button as a big angry red emergency stop button that slams the brakes on and drops everything. It drops the anchor. Deselecting Enable TX is not so abrupt, and not so tight on timing: if you deselect it at any point in a transmission, the remainder of that transmission continues to the end as normal but your next transmission doesn’t happen. It’s more elegant. More refined. Less screeching of tyres. Find this and other pragmatic tips in the FT8 Operating Guide <http://www.g4ifb.com/FT8_Hinson_tips_for_HF_DXers.pdf> . 73, Gary ZL2iFB From: WB5JJJ mailto:wb5...@gmail.com> > Sent: 18 January 2019 10:12 To: WSJT software development mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> > Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode... I've noticed that as well. Been this way for many versions back. Once the Tx cycle has been initiated (i.e. odd or even Tx has started), and if you then click Halt Tx, the radio will go to receive, the WF will show the signals, but none are decoded for the aborted Tx cycle. At the start of the next cycle, all is normal. WB5JJJ - George On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 3:01 PM Paul Kube mailto:paul.k...@gmail.com> > wrote: If I cancel my own transmission right at the beginning of a cycle, I see no decodes at all for that cycle. For example, say I'm CQing on even cycles. After a couple, I decide I want to stop CQing if I don't get any replies, so I hit Halt Tx as soon as I see the list of decodes from a just-finished odd cycle. Maybe I am transmitting for a second or two into the adjacent even cycle; but there are never any decodes from it at all even when lots of signals are present in the waterfall. Naively, it seems to me that this doesn't need to happen. I often see FT8 decodes for stations that start late -- as much as 4 seconds late -- in a cycle. So why does missing the first second or two prevent decoding anything? If this could be changed, it would be nice. A few of those wasted 15 seconds add up! Thanks, and 73, Paul K6PO ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode...
Friends, Try deselecting Enable Tx prior to the start of the next cycle instead of hitting the Halt Tx button. Think of the Halt Tx button as a big angry red emergency stop button that slams the brakes on and drops everything. It drops the anchor. Deselecting Enable TX is not so abrupt, and not so tight on timing: if you deselect it at any point in a transmission, the remainder of that transmission continues to the end as normal but your next transmission doesn’t happen. It’s more elegant. More refined. Less screeching of tyres. Find this and other pragmatic tips in the FT8 Operating Guide <http://www.g4ifb.com/FT8_Hinson_tips_for_HF_DXers.pdf> . 73, Gary ZL2iFB From: WB5JJJ Sent: 18 January 2019 10:12 To: WSJT software development Subject: Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode... I've noticed that as well. Been this way for many versions back. Once the Tx cycle has been initiated (i.e. odd or even Tx has started), and if you then click Halt Tx, the radio will go to receive, the WF will show the signals, but none are decoded for the aborted Tx cycle. At the start of the next cycle, all is normal. WB5JJJ - George On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 3:01 PM Paul Kube mailto:paul.k...@gmail.com> > wrote: If I cancel my own transmission right at the beginning of a cycle, I see no decodes at all for that cycle. For example, say I'm CQing on even cycles. After a couple, I decide I want to stop CQing if I don't get any replies, so I hit Halt Tx as soon as I see the list of decodes from a just-finished odd cycle. Maybe I am transmitting for a second or two into the adjacent even cycle; but there are never any decodes from it at all even when lots of signals are present in the waterfall. Naively, it seems to me that this doesn't need to happen. I often see FT8 decodes for stations that start late -- as much as 4 seconds late -- in a cycle. So why does missing the first second or two prevent decoding anything? If this could be changed, it would be nice. A few of those wasted 15 seconds add up! Thanks, and 73, Paul K6PO ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net <mailto:wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net> https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode...
> On Jan 17, 2019, at 13:57, Paul Kube wrote: > > For example, say I'm CQing on even cycles. After a couple, I decide I want to > stop CQing if I don't get any replies, so I hit Halt Tx as soon as I see the > list of decodes from a just-finished odd cycle. Maybe I am transmitting for a > second or two into the adjacent even cycle; but there are never any decodes > from it at all even when lots of signals are present in the waterfall. Don’t hit HALT! If you want to stop after a cycle has finished, just hit Enable TX while it is transmitting. It will finish the cycle it is on and then go no further. Several strange things have been known to happen if you HALT the outgoing as soon as it starts, including decoding your own transmission. Much cleaner to just disable the Enable. Gary - AG0N ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode...
I've noticed that as well. Been this way for many versions back. Once the Tx cycle has been initiated (i.e. odd or even Tx has started), and if you then click Halt Tx, the radio will go to receive, the WF will show the signals, but none are decoded for the aborted Tx cycle. At the start of the next cycle, all is normal. WB5JJJ - George On Thu, Jan 17, 2019 at 3:01 PM Paul Kube wrote: > > If I cancel my own transmission right at the beginning of a cycle, I see > no decodes at all for that cycle. > > For example, say I'm CQing on even cycles. After a couple, I decide I want > to stop CQing if I don't get any replies, so I hit Halt Tx as soon as I see > the list of decodes from a just-finished odd cycle. Maybe I am transmitting > for a second or two into the adjacent even cycle; but there are never any > decodes from it at all even when lots of signals are present in the > waterfall. > > Naively, it seems to me that this doesn't need to happen. I often see FT8 > decodes for stations that start late -- as much as 4 seconds late -- in a > cycle. So why does missing the first second or two prevent decoding > anything? > > If this could be changed, it would be nice. A few of those wasted 15 > seconds add up! > > Thanks, and 73, > > Paul K6PO > > > > > ___ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
[wsjt-devel] Short Tx inhibits decode...
If I cancel my own transmission right at the beginning of a cycle, I see no decodes at all for that cycle. For example, say I'm CQing on even cycles. After a couple, I decide I want to stop CQing if I don't get any replies, so I hit Halt Tx as soon as I see the list of decodes from a just-finished odd cycle. Maybe I am transmitting for a second or two into the adjacent even cycle; but there are never any decodes from it at all even when lots of signals are present in the waterfall. Naively, it seems to me that this doesn't need to happen. I often see FT8 decodes for stations that start late -- as much as 4 seconds late -- in a cycle. So why does missing the first second or two prevent decoding anything? If this could be changed, it would be nice. A few of those wasted 15 seconds add up! Thanks, and 73, Paul K6PO ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
