Re: [wsjt-devel] LOTW file suggestion
On 13/12/2018 13:55, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote: I really don't think it's dodging the issue to tell the user what they need to look at rather than giving them a useless-to-them message. The same "go look at section XXX of manual" would apply to any SSL link. I'm not going to hold my breath on lobbying the guv'ment either The email list had degenerated to insulting people for asking this question and it gets VERY annoying to see that behavior to the point I'm about ready to unsubscribe. Seeing this same question and the rude replies for all eternity does not appeal to me in the least (or I would imagine to you and Joe where some frustration has been noted where people don't search the list or read the manual) de Mike W9MDB Hi Mike, sorry, I can't fix the list subscribers, hi hi. I don't have a problem with the multiple posts, we will never get users to search prior posts while the standard of posting is so low. Everyone posting a question should be more aware that the subject they use and the way they ask a question is paramount for others that come alone later with the same issue. We are considering a "know issues" list on the project web page, even that will take a long time to become the source of truth on outstanding issues. In this day of instant communications and a multitude of social media sites that are largely full of inaccurate information there is little we can do but keep answering the questions in a single relevant place. I tend to take the view that there are no stupid questions, just poor answers. P.S. one of my pet hates is videos posted on YouTube or similar which are no more than demonstrating running an application for the very first time (first time for the author of the video!) yet claiming to be an experts view on how to configure and use. Not only are they often full on inaccuracies, they rarely get taken down so persist for ever getting more and more views spreading the garbage far and wide. 73 Bill G4WJS. ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] LOTW file suggestion
I really don't think it's dodging the issue to tell the user what they need to look at rather than giving them a useless-to-them message.The same "go look at section XXX of manual" would apply to any SSL link. I'm not going to hold my breath on lobbying the guv'ment either The email list had degenerated to insulting people for asking this question and it gets VERY annoying to see that behavior to the point I'm about ready to unsubscribe. Seeing this same question and the rude replies for all eternity does not appeal to me in the least (or I would imagine to you and Joe where some frustration has been noted where people don't search the list or read the manual) de Mike W9MDB On Thursday, December 13, 2018, 7:04:44 AM CST, Bill Somerville wrote: On 13/12/2018 12:42, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote: > May I suggest that if the LOTW color coding option is not checked (and > it looks like it defaults to off) that WSJT-X not download the lotw > user file. > > Otherwise this question about the SSL error is going to go on forever > for every new user that downloads WSJT-X. > > Then...when it's enabled pop up a box that says "Please read section > 3.1 in the Users Guide about the SSL libraries need for this option. > > Same thing when an error happens downloading it to cover the bases. > > de Mike W9MDB Mike, that is dodging the real issue. The OpenSSL libraries are required for Qt to access *any* secure Internet URL, it doesn't just apply to the LoTW users data file. By putting off the issue as you suggest then exactly the problem you cite will happen every time a new Internet resource we use switches to secure access only. What we are doing now is trying to get as many WSJT-X Windows users into the same place that Linux and Mac users are in without having to install an extra package. The real problem is your Government who insist that they can control the use of strong cryptography by imposing export restrictions. You need to lobby them for change, not here. If they changed then we could bundle OpenSSL libraries in the WSJT-X installer for Windows, Microsoft might even abandon the proprietary WinInet module and use OpenSSL themselves. Not holding my breath on that last point though. 73 Bill G4WJS. ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] LOTW file suggestion
All comments noted and from that point of view makes sense. Tom P.S. >> As I said to Mike, lobby your Government, that is what needs fixing. Well as you and I have the same government and it has a few things on it’s plate just now will give that a miss :-) On 13 Dec 2018, at 13:34, Bill Somerville wrote: > On 13/12/2018 13:19, Tom Melvin wrote: >> Quick question, if the wsjt download site was hosted outside the US then I >> believe the export restrictions do not apply - users in the US are importing >> the software. >> >> Are there thoughts on this and including the appropriate libraries within >> the installer for the future. >> >> Tom >> >> -- >> >> 73’s >> >> Tom >> GM8MJV (IO85) >> >> > Hi Tom, > > WSJT-X downloads are hosted on the project web site which is based at > Princeton and on SourceForge which has many servers Worldwide including in > NA. Giving up either of those resources is not likely to happen, mainly but > not solely for cost reasons I expect, SF is free for open source projects > like WSJT-X and I suspect the Princeton Physics Dept. server is too. > > Hosting outside NA might be possible if the OpenSSL libraries are > "clean-room" developed outside of the U.S., I believe this may be the case > but I would have to check. > > There are some projects that do bundle OpenSSL, I believe it is possible to > sign various U.S. export documentation to allow that but I would think that > doing so would shift responsibility to us to ensure that export restrictions > are not broken, a responsibility we do not want to bear, nor any cost in > processing such paperwork. > > IMHO this is not worth bothering about, it is easy to install OpenSSL on > Windows if your jurisdiction allows it and we give manual workarounds for > those that can't, so those in EP or P5 lands etc. (although I haven't seen P5 > on yet) can use WSJT-X without annoying the US government. > > As I said to Mike, lobby your Government, that is what needs fixing. > > 73 > Bill > G4WJS. > > > > ___ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] LOTW file suggestion
On 13/12/2018 13:19, Tom Melvin wrote: Quick question, if the wsjt download site was hosted outside the US then I believe the export restrictions do not apply - users in the US are importing the software. Are there thoughts on this and including the appropriate libraries within the installer for the future. Tom -- 73’s Tom GM8MJV (IO85) Hi Tom, WSJT-X downloads are hosted on the project web site which is based at Princeton and on SourceForge which has many servers Worldwide including in NA. Giving up either of those resources is not likely to happen, mainly but not solely for cost reasons I expect, SF is free for open source projects like WSJT-X and I suspect the Princeton Physics Dept. server is too. Hosting outside NA might be possible if the OpenSSL libraries are "clean-room" developed outside of the U.S., I believe this may be the case but I would have to check. There are some projects that do bundle OpenSSL, I believe it is possible to sign various U.S. export documentation to allow that but I would think that doing so would shift responsibility to us to ensure that export restrictions are not broken, a responsibility we do not want to bear, nor any cost in processing such paperwork. IMHO this is not worth bothering about, it is easy to install OpenSSL on Windows if your jurisdiction allows it and we give manual workarounds for those that can't, so those in EP or P5 lands etc. (although I haven't seen P5 on yet) can use WSJT-X without annoying the US government. As I said to Mike, lobby your Government, that is what needs fixing. 73 Bill G4WJS. ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] LOTW file suggestion
Bill Quick question, if the wsjt download site was hosted outside the US then I believe the export restrictions do not apply - users in the US are importing the software. Are there thoughts on this and including the appropriate libraries within the installer for the future. Tom -- 73’s Tom GM8MJV (IO85) On 13 Dec 2018, at 13:00, Bill Somerville wrote: > On 13/12/2018 12:42, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote: >> May I suggest that if the LOTW color coding option is not checked (and it >> looks like it defaults to off) that WSJT-X not download the lotw user file. >> >> Otherwise this question about the SSL error is going to go on forever for >> every new user that downloads WSJT-X. >> >> Then...when it's enabled pop up a box that says "Please read section 3.1 in >> the Users Guide about the SSL libraries need for this option. >> >> Same thing when an error happens downloading it to cover the bases. >> >> de Mike W9MDB > > Mike, > > that is dodging the real issue. The OpenSSL libraries are required for Qt to > access *any* secure Internet URL, it doesn't just apply to the LoTW users > data file. By putting off the issue as you suggest then exactly the problem > you cite will happen every time a new Internet resource we use switches to > secure access only. What we are doing now is trying to get as many WSJT-X > Windows users into the same place that Linux and Mac users are in without > having to install an extra package. > > The real problem is your Government who insist that they can control the use > of strong cryptography by imposing export restrictions. You need to lobby > them for change, not here. If they changed then we could bundle OpenSSL > libraries in the WSJT-X installer for Windows, Microsoft might even abandon > the proprietary WinInet module and use OpenSSL themselves. Not holding my > breath on that last point though. > > 73 > Bill > G4WJS. > > > > ___ > wsjt-devel mailing list > wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel > ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
Re: [wsjt-devel] LOTW file suggestion
On 13/12/2018 12:42, Black Michael via wsjt-devel wrote: May I suggest that if the LOTW color coding option is not checked (and it looks like it defaults to off) that WSJT-X not download the lotw user file. Otherwise this question about the SSL error is going to go on forever for every new user that downloads WSJT-X. Then...when it's enabled pop up a box that says "Please read section 3.1 in the Users Guide about the SSL libraries need for this option. Same thing when an error happens downloading it to cover the bases. de Mike W9MDB Mike, that is dodging the real issue. The OpenSSL libraries are required for Qt to access *any* secure Internet URL, it doesn't just apply to the LoTW users data file. By putting off the issue as you suggest then exactly the problem you cite will happen every time a new Internet resource we use switches to secure access only. What we are doing now is trying to get as many WSJT-X Windows users into the same place that Linux and Mac users are in without having to install an extra package. The real problem is your Government who insist that they can control the use of strong cryptography by imposing export restrictions. You need to lobby them for change, not here. If they changed then we could bundle OpenSSL libraries in the WSJT-X installer for Windows, Microsoft might even abandon the proprietary WinInet module and use OpenSSL themselves. Not holding my breath on that last point though. 73 Bill G4WJS. ___ wsjt-devel mailing list wsjt-devel@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/wsjt-devel
