Re: [Xastir] OpenTrac
On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 10:16:24AM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > Actually, APRS-IS COULD handle the data. There were some code implementers > who did their best to make it incompatible with their versions of server > code. > > OpenTrak was a pretty natural follow-on to the original APRS concept, with > a well-designed systematic approach to a bunch of things we've been dealing > with on an ad hoc basis for decades... Agreed. It held a lot of promise. Unfortunately that promise never got realized, and Scott's own OpenTrac information site shows almost no activity since 2004ish. So hanging on to code in Xastir to support it is a maintenance headache. > On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 12:33 AM Curt Mills wrote: > > > The only trackers that implemented it were Argentdata trackers. APRS-IS > > can't handle the packets but your average digipeaters can. I used to run a > > dual-protocol tracker in my Jeep that would do both APRS and Opentrac > > packets every posit and it worked well. I don't have that in my later > > Argentdata trackers though. > > > > Unless Scott starts putting it into his trackers again it's unlikely anyone > > will be using it. It's definitely a nice protocol though! > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 9:01 PM David Ranch wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello Tom, > > > > > > Thanks for working on this. To be honest, I've never even heard of > > > OpenTrac protocol before and I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable on > > > APRS. Guess not! Anyway, as I've learned from the hobby, the APRS > > > protocol is very capable but also buried in a huge amount of legacy > > > "debt". It's shift away from RELAY, it's multiple addendum and what not > > > really make it difficult to implement a clean solution. I don't know > > > why OpenTrac didn't catch on but maybe embedded solutions can't support > > > both protocols simultaneously on the same frequency? Maybe there isn't > > > enough real benefit over APRS to deploy it more widely? It also doesn't > > > help that TNC vendors like Kantronics, Timewave, etc. have essentially > > > abandoned their firmware work. > > > > > > If something modern like say Direwolf added Opentrac support, would that > > > help? I see that YACC supports it already as well. > > > > > > --David > > > KI6ZHD > > > > > > > > > On 04/07/2019 02:01 PM, Tom Russo wrote: > > > > So, I have been going through Xastir very slowly trying to clean up the > > > many, > > > > many warnings that are emitted by modern compilers. GCC 8 is > > especially > > > noisy, > > > > and warns about many things that are not in fact errors in Xastir, but > > > it is > > > > also finding a bunch of potential problems that need cleaning up. > > > > > > > > A bunch of these potential problems are showing up in the various > > > functions > > > > to handle OpenTrac protocol packets. Some of these are potential > > buffer > > > > overruns, others are just noise. > > > > > > > > I discussed with Curt how to clean these up, and we could do one of two > > > things: > > > > - work hard to work out exactly how to fix things so the code > > > actually works > > > > OR > > > > - just remove OpenTrac support, since it's basically dead > > > > > > > > The latter is probably the right thing to do, as there are probably > > very > > > few > > > > people out there who even remember what OpenTrac was, and even fewer > > who > > > still > > > > use it. It was meant to be a more carefully designed protocol than > > APRS > > > > (which grew more-or-less organically, and randomly), but never really > > > > caught on. I do not believe there are any currently-available trackers > > > or > > > > software that supports transmitting it. > > > > > > > > So, is anyone at all using the OpenTrac decoding in Xastir, and would > > > they > > > > be upset if it were removed? > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Xastir mailing list > > > Xastir@lists.xastir.org > > > http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir > > > > > > > > > -- > > Curt, WE7Uhttp://we7u.wetnet.net > > http://www.sarguydigital.com > > ___ > > Xastir mailing list > > Xastir@lists.xastir.org > > http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir > > > > > -- > Gerry Creager > NSSL/CIMMS > 405.325.6371 > ++ > *The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing.* > * Walt Disney* > ___ > Xastir mailing list > Xastir@lists.xastir.org > http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir -- Tom RussoKM5VY Tijeras, NM echo "prpv_a'rfg_cnf_har_cvcr" | sed -e 's/_/ /g' | tr [a-m][n-z] [n-z][a-m] ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@lists.xastir.org http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] OpenTrac
Actually, APRS-IS COULD handle the data. There were some code implementers who did their best to make it incompatible with their versions of server code. OpenTrak was a pretty natural follow-on to the original APRS concept, with a well-designed systematic approach to a bunch of things we've been dealing with on an ad hoc basis for decades... gerry On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 12:33 AM Curt Mills wrote: > The only trackers that implemented it were Argentdata trackers. APRS-IS > can't handle the packets but your average digipeaters can. I used to run a > dual-protocol tracker in my Jeep that would do both APRS and Opentrac > packets every posit and it worked well. I don't have that in my later > Argentdata trackers though. > > Unless Scott starts putting it into his trackers again it's unlikely anyone > will be using it. It's definitely a nice protocol though! > > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 9:01 PM David Ranch wrote: > > > > > Hello Tom, > > > > Thanks for working on this. To be honest, I've never even heard of > > OpenTrac protocol before and I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable on > > APRS. Guess not! Anyway, as I've learned from the hobby, the APRS > > protocol is very capable but also buried in a huge amount of legacy > > "debt". It's shift away from RELAY, it's multiple addendum and what not > > really make it difficult to implement a clean solution. I don't know > > why OpenTrac didn't catch on but maybe embedded solutions can't support > > both protocols simultaneously on the same frequency? Maybe there isn't > > enough real benefit over APRS to deploy it more widely? It also doesn't > > help that TNC vendors like Kantronics, Timewave, etc. have essentially > > abandoned their firmware work. > > > > If something modern like say Direwolf added Opentrac support, would that > > help? I see that YACC supports it already as well. > > > > --David > > KI6ZHD > > > > > > On 04/07/2019 02:01 PM, Tom Russo wrote: > > > So, I have been going through Xastir very slowly trying to clean up the > > many, > > > many warnings that are emitted by modern compilers. GCC 8 is > especially > > noisy, > > > and warns about many things that are not in fact errors in Xastir, but > > it is > > > also finding a bunch of potential problems that need cleaning up. > > > > > > A bunch of these potential problems are showing up in the various > > functions > > > to handle OpenTrac protocol packets. Some of these are potential > buffer > > > overruns, others are just noise. > > > > > > I discussed with Curt how to clean these up, and we could do one of two > > things: > > > - work hard to work out exactly how to fix things so the code > > actually works > > > OR > > > - just remove OpenTrac support, since it's basically dead > > > > > > The latter is probably the right thing to do, as there are probably > very > > few > > > people out there who even remember what OpenTrac was, and even fewer > who > > still > > > use it. It was meant to be a more carefully designed protocol than > APRS > > > (which grew more-or-less organically, and randomly), but never really > > > caught on. I do not believe there are any currently-available trackers > > or > > > software that supports transmitting it. > > > > > > So, is anyone at all using the OpenTrac decoding in Xastir, and would > > they > > > be upset if it were removed? > > > > > > > ___ > > Xastir mailing list > > Xastir@lists.xastir.org > > http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir > > > > > -- > Curt, WE7Uhttp://we7u.wetnet.net > http://www.sarguydigital.com > ___ > Xastir mailing list > Xastir@lists.xastir.org > http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir > -- Gerry Creager NSSL/CIMMS 405.325.6371 ++ *The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing.* * Walt Disney* ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@lists.xastir.org http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] OpenTrac
:-) At the time, the index microcontroller WAS an 8-bit. 16-bit systems were big and expensive! gerry On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 9:21 AM Jason KG4WSV wrote: > it should probably just be removed. > > kinda sad, i wanted to implement it once, but the only "documentation" i > could ever find was the version of the OT code that Scott made available. > An implementation for an 8 bit micro controller isn't exactly an ideal > reference design. > > -j > > > > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 12:33 AM Curt Mills wrote: > > > The only trackers that implemented it were Argentdata trackers. APRS-IS > > can't handle the packets but your average digipeaters can. I used to run > a > > dual-protocol tracker in my Jeep that would do both APRS and Opentrac > > packets every posit and it worked well. I don't have that in my later > > Argentdata trackers though. > > > > Unless Scott starts putting it into his trackers again it's unlikely > anyone > > will be using it. It's definitely a nice protocol though! > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 9:01 PM David Ranch wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello Tom, > > > > > > Thanks for working on this. To be honest, I've never even heard of > > > OpenTrac protocol before and I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable > on > > > APRS. Guess not! Anyway, as I've learned from the hobby, the APRS > > > protocol is very capable but also buried in a huge amount of legacy > > > "debt". It's shift away from RELAY, it's multiple addendum and what > not > > > really make it difficult to implement a clean solution. I don't know > > > why OpenTrac didn't catch on but maybe embedded solutions can't support > > > both protocols simultaneously on the same frequency? Maybe there isn't > > > enough real benefit over APRS to deploy it more widely? It also > doesn't > > > help that TNC vendors like Kantronics, Timewave, etc. have essentially > > > abandoned their firmware work. > > > > > > If something modern like say Direwolf added Opentrac support, would > that > > > help? I see that YACC supports it already as well. > > > > > > --David > > > KI6ZHD > > > > > > > > > On 04/07/2019 02:01 PM, Tom Russo wrote: > > > > So, I have been going through Xastir very slowly trying to clean up > the > > > many, > > > > many warnings that are emitted by modern compilers. GCC 8 is > > especially > > > noisy, > > > > and warns about many things that are not in fact errors in Xastir, > but > > > it is > > > > also finding a bunch of potential problems that need cleaning up. > > > > > > > > A bunch of these potential problems are showing up in the various > > > functions > > > > to handle OpenTrac protocol packets. Some of these are potential > > buffer > > > > overruns, others are just noise. > > > > > > > > I discussed with Curt how to clean these up, and we could do one of > two > > > things: > > > > - work hard to work out exactly how to fix things so the code > > > actually works > > > > OR > > > > - just remove OpenTrac support, since it's basically dead > > > > > > > > The latter is probably the right thing to do, as there are probably > > very > > > few > > > > people out there who even remember what OpenTrac was, and even fewer > > who > > > still > > > > use it. It was meant to be a more carefully designed protocol than > > APRS > > > > (which grew more-or-less organically, and randomly), but never really > > > > caught on. I do not believe there are any currently-available > trackers > > > or > > > > software that supports transmitting it. > > > > > > > > So, is anyone at all using the OpenTrac decoding in Xastir, and would > > > they > > > > be upset if it were removed? > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Xastir mailing list > > > Xastir@lists.xastir.org > > > http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir > > > > > > > > > -- > > Curt, WE7Uhttp://we7u.wetnet.net > > http://www.sarguydigital.com > > ___ > > Xastir mailing list > > Xastir@lists.xastir.org > > http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir > > > > > -- > -Jason > kg4wsv > ___ > Xastir mailing list > Xastir@lists.xastir.org > http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir > -- Gerry Creager NSSL/CIMMS 405.325.6371 ++ *The way to get started is to quit talking and begin doing.* * Walt Disney* ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@lists.xastir.org http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] OpenTrac
On Wed, Apr 10, 2019 at 09:21:38AM -0500, we recorded a bogon-computron collision of the flavor, containing: > it should probably just be removed. It was. Commit 2ebfb27. > kinda sad, i wanted to implement it once, but the only "documentation" i > could ever find was the version of the OT code that Scott made available. > An implementation for an 8 bit micro controller isn't exactly an ideal > reference design. > > -j > > > > > On Mon, Apr 8, 2019 at 12:33 AM Curt Mills wrote: > > > The only trackers that implemented it were Argentdata trackers. APRS-IS > > can't handle the packets but your average digipeaters can. I used to run a > > dual-protocol tracker in my Jeep that would do both APRS and Opentrac > > packets every posit and it worked well. I don't have that in my later > > Argentdata trackers though. > > > > Unless Scott starts putting it into his trackers again it's unlikely anyone > > will be using it. It's definitely a nice protocol though! > > > > > > On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 9:01 PM David Ranch wrote: > > > > > > > > Hello Tom, > > > > > > Thanks for working on this. To be honest, I've never even heard of > > > OpenTrac protocol before and I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable on > > > APRS. Guess not! Anyway, as I've learned from the hobby, the APRS > > > protocol is very capable but also buried in a huge amount of legacy > > > "debt". It's shift away from RELAY, it's multiple addendum and what not > > > really make it difficult to implement a clean solution. I don't know > > > why OpenTrac didn't catch on but maybe embedded solutions can't support > > > both protocols simultaneously on the same frequency? Maybe there isn't > > > enough real benefit over APRS to deploy it more widely? It also doesn't > > > help that TNC vendors like Kantronics, Timewave, etc. have essentially > > > abandoned their firmware work. > > > > > > If something modern like say Direwolf added Opentrac support, would that > > > help? I see that YACC supports it already as well. > > > > > > --David > > > KI6ZHD > > > > > > > > > On 04/07/2019 02:01 PM, Tom Russo wrote: > > > > So, I have been going through Xastir very slowly trying to clean up the > > > many, > > > > many warnings that are emitted by modern compilers. GCC 8 is > > especially > > > noisy, > > > > and warns about many things that are not in fact errors in Xastir, but > > > it is > > > > also finding a bunch of potential problems that need cleaning up. > > > > > > > > A bunch of these potential problems are showing up in the various > > > functions > > > > to handle OpenTrac protocol packets. Some of these are potential > > buffer > > > > overruns, others are just noise. > > > > > > > > I discussed with Curt how to clean these up, and we could do one of two > > > things: > > > > - work hard to work out exactly how to fix things so the code > > > actually works > > > > OR > > > > - just remove OpenTrac support, since it's basically dead > > > > > > > > The latter is probably the right thing to do, as there are probably > > very > > > few > > > > people out there who even remember what OpenTrac was, and even fewer > > who > > > still > > > > use it. It was meant to be a more carefully designed protocol than > > APRS > > > > (which grew more-or-less organically, and randomly), but never really > > > > caught on. I do not believe there are any currently-available trackers > > > or > > > > software that supports transmitting it. > > > > > > > > So, is anyone at all using the OpenTrac decoding in Xastir, and would > > > they > > > > be upset if it were removed? > > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Xastir mailing list > > > Xastir@lists.xastir.org > > > http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir > > > > > > > > > -- > > Curt, WE7Uhttp://we7u.wetnet.net > > http://www.sarguydigital.com > > ___ > > Xastir mailing list > > Xastir@lists.xastir.org > > http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir > > > > > -- > -Jason > kg4wsv > ___ > Xastir mailing list > Xastir@lists.xastir.org > http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir -- Tom RussoKM5VY Tijeras, NM echo "prpv_a'rfg_cnf_har_cvcr" | sed -e 's/_/ /g' | tr [a-m][n-z] [n-z][a-m] ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@lists.xastir.org http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] OpenTrac
The only trackers that implemented it were Argentdata trackers. APRS-IS can't handle the packets but your average digipeaters can. I used to run a dual-protocol tracker in my Jeep that would do both APRS and Opentrac packets every posit and it worked well. I don't have that in my later Argentdata trackers though. Unless Scott starts putting it into his trackers again it's unlikely anyone will be using it. It's definitely a nice protocol though! On Sun, Apr 7, 2019 at 9:01 PM David Ranch wrote: > > Hello Tom, > > Thanks for working on this. To be honest, I've never even heard of > OpenTrac protocol before and I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable on > APRS. Guess not! Anyway, as I've learned from the hobby, the APRS > protocol is very capable but also buried in a huge amount of legacy > "debt". It's shift away from RELAY, it's multiple addendum and what not > really make it difficult to implement a clean solution. I don't know > why OpenTrac didn't catch on but maybe embedded solutions can't support > both protocols simultaneously on the same frequency? Maybe there isn't > enough real benefit over APRS to deploy it more widely? It also doesn't > help that TNC vendors like Kantronics, Timewave, etc. have essentially > abandoned their firmware work. > > If something modern like say Direwolf added Opentrac support, would that > help? I see that YACC supports it already as well. > > --David > KI6ZHD > > > On 04/07/2019 02:01 PM, Tom Russo wrote: > > So, I have been going through Xastir very slowly trying to clean up the > many, > > many warnings that are emitted by modern compilers. GCC 8 is especially > noisy, > > and warns about many things that are not in fact errors in Xastir, but > it is > > also finding a bunch of potential problems that need cleaning up. > > > > A bunch of these potential problems are showing up in the various > functions > > to handle OpenTrac protocol packets. Some of these are potential buffer > > overruns, others are just noise. > > > > I discussed with Curt how to clean these up, and we could do one of two > things: > > - work hard to work out exactly how to fix things so the code > actually works > > OR > > - just remove OpenTrac support, since it's basically dead > > > > The latter is probably the right thing to do, as there are probably very > few > > people out there who even remember what OpenTrac was, and even fewer who > still > > use it. It was meant to be a more carefully designed protocol than APRS > > (which grew more-or-less organically, and randomly), but never really > > caught on. I do not believe there are any currently-available trackers > or > > software that supports transmitting it. > > > > So, is anyone at all using the OpenTrac decoding in Xastir, and would > they > > be upset if it were removed? > > > > ___ > Xastir mailing list > Xastir@lists.xastir.org > http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir > -- Curt, WE7Uhttp://we7u.wetnet.nethttp://www.sarguydigital.com ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@lists.xastir.org http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir
Re: [Xastir] OpenTrac
Hello Tom, Thanks for working on this. To be honest, I've never even heard of OpenTrac protocol before and I consider myself somewhat knowledgeable on APRS. Guess not! Anyway, as I've learned from the hobby, the APRS protocol is very capable but also buried in a huge amount of legacy "debt". It's shift away from RELAY, it's multiple addendum and what not really make it difficult to implement a clean solution. I don't know why OpenTrac didn't catch on but maybe embedded solutions can't support both protocols simultaneously on the same frequency? Maybe there isn't enough real benefit over APRS to deploy it more widely? It also doesn't help that TNC vendors like Kantronics, Timewave, etc. have essentially abandoned their firmware work. If something modern like say Direwolf added Opentrac support, would that help? I see that YACC supports it already as well. --David KI6ZHD On 04/07/2019 02:01 PM, Tom Russo wrote: So, I have been going through Xastir very slowly trying to clean up the many, many warnings that are emitted by modern compilers. GCC 8 is especially noisy, and warns about many things that are not in fact errors in Xastir, but it is also finding a bunch of potential problems that need cleaning up. A bunch of these potential problems are showing up in the various functions to handle OpenTrac protocol packets. Some of these are potential buffer overruns, others are just noise. I discussed with Curt how to clean these up, and we could do one of two things: - work hard to work out exactly how to fix things so the code actually works OR - just remove OpenTrac support, since it's basically dead The latter is probably the right thing to do, as there are probably very few people out there who even remember what OpenTrac was, and even fewer who still use it. It was meant to be a more carefully designed protocol than APRS (which grew more-or-less organically, and randomly), but never really caught on. I do not believe there are any currently-available trackers or software that supports transmitting it. So, is anyone at all using the OpenTrac decoding in Xastir, and would they be upset if it were removed? ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@lists.xastir.org http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir
[Xastir] OpenTrac
So, I have been going through Xastir very slowly trying to clean up the many, many warnings that are emitted by modern compilers. GCC 8 is especially noisy, and warns about many things that are not in fact errors in Xastir, but it is also finding a bunch of potential problems that need cleaning up. A bunch of these potential problems are showing up in the various functions to handle OpenTrac protocol packets. Some of these are potential buffer overruns, others are just noise. I discussed with Curt how to clean these up, and we could do one of two things: - work hard to work out exactly how to fix things so the code actually works OR - just remove OpenTrac support, since it's basically dead The latter is probably the right thing to do, as there are probably very few people out there who even remember what OpenTrac was, and even fewer who still use it. It was meant to be a more carefully designed protocol than APRS (which grew more-or-less organically, and randomly), but never really caught on. I do not believe there are any currently-available trackers or software that supports transmitting it. So, is anyone at all using the OpenTrac decoding in Xastir, and would they be upset if it were removed? -- Tom RussoKM5VY Tijeras, NM echo "prpv_a'rfg_cnf_har_cvcr" | sed -e 's/_/ /g' | tr [a-m][n-z] [n-z][a-m] ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@lists.xastir.org http://xastir.org/mailman/listinfo/xastir
[Xastir] Opentrac
I was looking at the opentrac code in interface.c, I was wondering does Xastir have any facility to actually transmit opentrac packets? Thanks, -Dan N7NMD -- Dan Zubey Openincident Technology dzu...@openincident.com http://openincident.com ___ Xastir mailing list Xastir@lists.xastir.org http://lists.xastir.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/xastir
