Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Seemingly inexplicable shift in page origin between TL 2014 and TL 2016

[David Carlisle]

On 15 July 2016 at 00:19, Ross Moore  wrote:

> Hi David,
>
> On Jul 15, 2016, at 8:49 AM, David Carlisle 
> wrote:
>
>
> well that'll be the page size special change as mentioned earlier I assume.
>
>
> Hmm. In which version of  color.sty  was this introduced?
>

pdftex.def (and luatex.def) have _always_ set \pdfpage(height|width) with
no option not to do that,
conversely dvips.def did not by default set \ pagesize \special, which mean
that if you used color or graphics
then the pdf-specified page size either was or was not affected by latex
options such as
\documentclass[a4paper]{article}
depending if you used pdftex or tex+dvips (or luatex or xetex)
as of this year, after some discussion on the texlive list color and
graphics acquired  setpagesize and nosetpagesize options and then
dvips/pdftex/luatex/xetex/dvipdfmx.def either set the page size or not.



> Presumably later than:
>
> Package: color 2016/05/09 v1.1c Standard LaTeX Color (DPC)
>
> There is a potential conflict with  pdfx.sty  setting the  /MediaBox .
>
>
> what does \usepackage [nosetpagesize]{color} do?
>
>
> Is there a mechanism similar to  \hypersetup  that allows the options to
> be changed
> *after* the package has been loaded?
>

Not really, although the actual setting is in \AtBeginDocument{\AtBeginDVI
so as long
as you set the relevant registers to the right value it'll get set up (but
let me know if you need more hooks)


>
> Alternatively, can I detect whether the  pagesize  special has been done
> already?
> Then not repeat specifying  /MediaBox  when setting the other boxes:
>  Bleed/Crop/Trim
> which are required for PDF/X validation.
>
> If not loaded yet, I can do  \PassOptionsToPackage{nosetpagesize}{color} .
> But I’ll want to catch the case also if it is loaded.
>
>
> Cheers
>
> Ross
>


> David
>


>
> * Dr Ross Moore*
>
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> Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia
>
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>
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>
>
> 
>
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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Seemingly inexplicable shift in page origin between TL 2014 and TL 2016

[Ross Moore]

Hi again David,

On Jul 15, 2016, at 9:19 AM, Ross Moore 
mailto:ross.mo...@mq.edu.au>> wrote:

Hi David,

There is a potential conflict with  pdfx.sty  setting the  /MediaBox .

OK, I see what is going on now.
You are allowing a colored rectangle to be drawn the size of the page,
to support coloured pages, yes?

Nothing to do with the PDF Boxes, except of course you want the sizes
to match; especially when a  \mag  is used.



what does \usepackage [nosetpagesize]{color} do?

Is there a mechanism similar to  \hypersetup  that allows the options to be 
changed
*after* the package has been loaded?

OK; it just sets a boolean flag.


Alternatively, can I detect whether the  pagesize  special has been done 
already?
Then not repeat specifying  /MediaBox  when setting the other boxes:  
Bleed/Crop/Trim
which are required for PDF/X validation.

If not loaded yet, I can do  \PassOptionsToPackage{nosetpagesize}{color} .
But I’ll want to catch the case also if it is loaded.

Looks like this won’t be necessary.
The question now will be how having such colored pages affects validation.
Hopefully not at all, for PDF/X and PDF/A.

Maybe PDF/UA, according to the actual colors, but that would be a visual check 
not automated.


Thanks for a new code-branch to try out.


Cheers

 Ross


Dr Ross Moore

Mathematics Dept | Level 2, S2.638 AHH
Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia

T: +61 2 9850 8955  |  F: +61 2 9850 8114
M:+61 407 288 255  |  E: 
ross.mo...@mq.edu.au

http://www.maths.mq.edu.au


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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Seemingly inexplicable shift in page origin between TL 2014 and TL 2016

[Ross Moore]

Hi David,

On Jul 15, 2016, at 8:49 AM, David Carlisle 
mailto:d.p.carli...@gmail.com>> wrote:

well that'll be the page size special change as mentioned earlier I assume.

Hmm. In which version of  color.sty  was this introduced?
Presumably later than:

Package: color 2016/05/09 v1.1c Standard LaTeX Color (DPC)

There is a potential conflict with  pdfx.sty  setting the  /MediaBox .


what does \usepackage [nosetpagesize]{color} do?

Is there a mechanism similar to  \hypersetup  that allows the options to be 
changed
*after* the package has been loaded?

Alternatively, can I detect whether the  pagesize  special has been done 
already?
Then not repeat specifying  /MediaBox  when setting the other boxes:  
Bleed/Crop/Trim
which are required for PDF/X validation.

If not loaded yet, I can do  \PassOptionsToPackage{nosetpagesize}{color} .
But I’ll want to catch the case also if it is loaded.


Cheers

Ross


Dr Ross Moore

Mathematics Dept | Level 2, S2.638 AHH
Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia

T: +61 2 9850 8955  |  F: +61 2 9850 8114
M:+61 407 288 255  |  E: 
ross.mo...@mq.edu.au

http://www.maths.mq.edu.au


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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Seemingly inexplicable shift in page origin between TL 2014 and TL 2016

[David Carlisle]

On 14 July 2016 at 23:40, Philip Taylor  wrote:
> It transpires that it is /not/ the PDF/X-1A \specials that are the root cause 
> of the problem.  It is the use of
>
> \input eplain
> \beginpackages
> \usepackage {color}
> \endpackages
>
> If I replace this with what I believe to be the functionally equivalent :
>
> \input miniltx
> \input color
>
> all works as in 2014 !
>
> ** Phil.
>


well that'll be the page size special change as mentioned earlier I assume.

what does \usepackage [nosetpagesize]{color} do?


>
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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Seemingly inexplicable shift in page origin between TL 2014 and TL 2016

[Philip Taylor]

It transpires that it is /not/ the PDF/X-1A \specials that are the root cause 
of the problem.  It is the use of

\input eplain
\beginpackages
\usepackage {color}   
\endpackages

If I replace this with what I believe to be the functionally equivalent :

\input miniltx
\input color

all works as in 2014 !

** Phil.


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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Seemingly inexplicable shift in page origin between TL 2014 and TL 2016

[Ross Moore]

Hi Phil,

On Jul 15, 2016, at 6:02 AM, Philip Taylor 
mailto:p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk>> wrote:

Very happy to believe that, Ross (and will test later) but what I do not 
understand is why things have changed so dramatically in going from TeX Live 
2014 to 2016.  In 2014, adding the PDF/X-1A specials made no difference 
whatsoever to the position of size of the page; in 2016, they cause a vertical 
displacement.

There have been significant changes, at least in  xdvipdfmx  since 2014.

And the interaction with the color package is also inexplicable.  Anyhow, I 
first have to come up with a truly MWE and then I will be in a better position 
to investigate and report back.

Please send me such MWE when you have it.

I’ve been trying a real-world example (Serbian version of TeXLive documentation)
that compiles fine (with one small hiccup that doesn’t seem to affect the 
result)
using 2016’s  xdvipdfmx , but which crashes out almost immediately with 2014 
saying:

SCI:TL-SR16 ross$ /usr/local/texlive/2014/bin/universal-darwin/xdvipdfmx -z 0 
-vv --kpathsea-debug 4095 texlive-sr.xdv
texlive-sr.xdv
 -> texlive-sr.pdf
kdebug:fopen(texlive-sr.xdv, rb) => 0xa0e103ec
DVI ID = 7

xdvipdfmx:fatal: Something is wrong. Are you sure this is a DVI file?

Output file removed.
SCI:TL-SR16 ross$

Note that I have maximum verbosity turned on, as well as a lot of  kpathsea  
tracing.
Yet still it isn’t clear where it is going wrong.

So I’d appreciate your cut-down MWE to test with both versions.
Then we can play with /MediaBox and /CropBox values, to see whether that
is the cause of what you are getting. Or whether it is something else.



** Phil.

Cheers

Ross


Dr Ross Moore

Mathematics Dept | Level 2, S2.638 AHH
Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia

T: +61 2 9850 8955  |  F: +61 2 9850 8114
M:+61 407 288 255  |  E: 
ross.mo...@mq.edu.au

http://www.maths.mq.edu.au


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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Seemingly inexplicable shift in page origin between TL 2014 and TL 2016

[Philip Taylor]

Ross Moore wrote:
> I think what you are seeing is due to the  /CropBox settings.
Very happy to believe that, Ross (and will test later) but what I do not 
understand is why things have changed so dramatically in going from TeX Live 
2014 to 2016.  In 2014, adding the PDF/X-1A specials made no difference 
whatsoever to the position of size of the page; in 2016, they cause a vertical 
displacement.  And the interaction with the color package is also inexplicable. 
 Anyhow, I first have to come up with a truly MWE and then I will be in a 
better position to investigate and report back.

** Phil.


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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Seemingly inexplicable shift in page origin between TL 2014 and TL 2016

[Ross Moore]

Hi Phil,

On Jul 14, 2016, at 10:02 PM, Philip Taylor 
mailto:p.tay...@rhul.ac.uk>> wrote:


Hallo David, and thank you for your suggestions.  I have now found the 
following :

1) The primary cause of the displacement is the PDF/X-1A:2003 specials -- 
remove these, and the page returns to its normal vertical position, but shifted 
outwards (leftwards) somewhat;
2) The use of \usepackage {color} within e-plain's \beginpackages ... 
\endpackages; in TeX Live 2016, this makes the page size considerably wider, 
IFF the PDF/X-1A specials are not emitted.

The displacement is visible both in TeXworks viewer and in Adobe Acrobat.


I think what you are seeing is due to the  /CropBox settings.
A PDF viewer shows the contents of the cropped area,
scaling to fill either the width or height or both.

There are 2 kinds of test that you can do.

1.  Print a few pages of your document, once with the \specials, once without.
Is there any difference in the position of your content on the printed page?

2. Vary the numbers in  /CropBox [ a b c d ] ;
such that (a,b) is bottom-left  and  (c,d)  is top-right corners of a 
rectangle.
Values such as  [ 200 200 300 300 ] should crop to a small-ish portion of a 
page,
which is then scaled up to fit your window-size.
   Observe the value of your browser’s scaling factor.

   With different values of [ a b c d ] you can simulate vertical and 
horizontal shifts,
to a small extent, according to how much smaller the /CropBox is, compared to
the /MediaBox.

Does this interpretation agree with what you observe?



A4 is indeed the default in both, and the difference between A4 and letter is 
only 3/4", whereas it appears to require a 1" correction ...

** Phil.


Cheers,

Ross


Dr Ross Moore

Mathematics Dept | Level 2, S2.638 AHH
Macquarie University, NSW 2109, Australia

T: +61 2 9850 8955  |  F: +61 2 9850 8114
M:+61 407 288 255  |  E: 
ross.mo...@mq.edu.au

http://www.maths.mq.edu.au


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[XeTeX] Fwd: Re: [tex-live] Seemingly inexplicable shift in page origin between TL 2014 and TL 2016

[Philip Taylor]

Hallo David, and thank you for your suggestions.  I have now found the 
following :

1) The primary cause of the displacement is the PDF/X-1A:2003 specials -- 
remove these, and the page returns to its normal vertical position, but shifted 
outwards (leftwards) somewhat;
2) The use of \usepackage {color} within e-plain's \beginpackages ... 
\endpackages; in TeX Live 2016, this makes the page size considerably wider, 
IFF the PDF/X-1A specials are not emitted.

The displacement is visible both in TeXworks viewer and in Adobe Acrobat.

A4 is indeed the default in both, and the difference between A4 and letter is 
only 3/4", whereas it appears to require a 1" correction ...

** Phil.



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Re: [XeTeX] [tex-live] Seemingly inexplicable shift in page origin between TL 2014 and TL 2016

[David Carlisle]

On 12 July 2016 at 16:17, Philip Taylor  wrote:



 > \advance \voffset by 1 true in % REQUIRED ONLY FOR TL 2016

If it's really a difference in texlive check that you specified the same
default driver page size (presumably A4)
in both installations, not A4 in one and letter in the other


or it may be a change in the driver files that now use a pagestyle special
by default but it wouldn't do that unless the latex \paperwidth register is
set (look at the end of xetex.def)

although neither of these would have the effect of exactly 1in shift.

David


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