Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
I'm finding this thread to be quite distressing.
On 26/04/2014, at 6:45, Philip Taylor wrote:
> Wagner wrote:
>
>> XeTeX can do via xdvipdfmx specials almost everything explained in the
>> PDF reference and pdfmark reference. Will you insist to include these
>> 1000+ pages in the XeTeX manual?
>
> No, Zdeněk; I am asking for /important/ facts to be documented,
> not the entire known universe.
Phil, who is supposed to write the documentation that you desire?
You know that all TeX development is done voluntarily.
Most documentation is written by whomever wrote the code.
So you cannot expect any XeTeX developer to write beyond \special and it's
initial keywords.
Anything about the arguments to \special will necessarily be written by the
authors of the driver applications, or someone else who has kindly donated
their time to contribute their less than complete knowledge, based upon their
own specific experience.
Asking for anything else is unreasonable, and insisting upon it is arrogance.
Yes, you do need to understand that there is a driver application, even if only
one is currently supported with XeTeX, and that it currently — it wasn't always
this way — is called automatically. The TeX world has always been this way, in
that tasks are devolved to different application programs, and their
documentation is typically written independently.
>
> And how about the code below:
>
>> \bf\special{pdf: code q 2 Tr 0.4 w 0 .5 .5 .05 k 1 1 0 .1 K}Hello
>> world!\special{pdf:code}
>> \bye
>
> The number of such productions is infinite; no documentation system,
> no no matter how complex and complete, can fully document an infinite
> universe of discourse, and therefore unless you can show that whatever
> your write-only code accomplishes is something that B L User is likely
> to want to accomplish, then I can see little point in documenting it.
Of course.
So please take the obvious hints, face reality, and desist on pursuing this
thread.
Off list I have given you the advice of:
1. employing the miniltx.tex input file, to enable you to load important
LaTeX internals, without having to submit to LaTeX's model of what is a
document and how it might be structured; and
2. use \tracingall with LaTeX examples to see what is really happening.
And being prepared to open the package files themselves, to see what other
branches are possible with the package's internal coding.
Method 2. has always worked for me, as it reveals far more accurate information
than any documentation can ever do. Yes, it can be difficult and daunting, but
it is accurate.
I mean, if a computer can understand it, then surely so can I.
>
> ** Phil.
> --
> All duplicate recycled material deleted on principle.
A fine principle.
Please apply such empathetic principles also to developers, who supply their
efforts entirely voluntarily, and respect the fact that they may have a
different perception to you of what is important, and what is not.
Best regards,
Ross
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Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
Zdenek Wagner wrote:
XeTeX can do via xdvipdfmx specials almost everything explained in the
PDF reference and pdfmark reference. Will you insist to include these
1000+ pages in the XeTeX manual?
No, Zdeněk; I am asking for /important/ facts to be documented,
not the entire known universe.
And how about the code below:
\bf\special{pdf: code q 2 Tr 0.4 w 0 .5 .5 .05 k 1 1 0 .1 K}Hello
world!\special{pdf:code}
\bye
The number of such productions is infinite; no documentation system,
no no matter how complex and complete, can fully document an infinite
universe of discourse, and therefore unless you can show that whatever
your write-only code accomplishes is something that B L User is likely
to want to accomplish, then I can see little point in documenting it.
** Phil.
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Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
2014-04-25 22:21 GMT+02:00 Philip Taylor :
>
>
> David Carlisle wrote:
>
> I don't see any reason to include the documentation in the xetex manual
>>
>> texdoc dvipdfmx
>>
>> provides a 5 or so page tugboat article with the details, what's to be
>> gained by copying that?
>>
>> It just duplicates the information and is only of interest to a
>> minuscule fraction of the community.
>>
>
> Your average XeTeX user does not know that he or she is using
> (X)DviPdfm(x). He (or she) knows only that they are using XeTeX
> and wishing to accomplish something that is clearly possible, since users
> of XeLaTeX already have access to that functionality (change
> of colour, embed hyperlink, whatever). Why should it be be necessary
> for B L User to look for documentation for a driver when that driver
> comes bundled with, and is automatically invoked by, XeTeX ? It is
> not as if XeTeX comes with a choice of driver, and each user elects
> to use the one that he or she prefers. It is /XeTeX/ functionality
> that we are discussing; the fact that XeTeX elects to delegate
> responsibility for that task to a specific bundled driver is neither
> here nor there.
>
XeTeX can do via xdvipdfmx specials almost everything explained in the PDF
reference and pdfmark reference. Will you insist to include these 1000+
pages in the XeTeX manual? And how about the code below:
\bf\special{pdf: code q 2 Tr 0.4 w 0 .5 .5 .05 k 1 1 0 .1 K}Hello
world!\special{pdf:code}
\bye
>
> ** Phil.
>
>
>
>
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>
--
Zdeněk Wagner
http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/
http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz
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Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
David Carlisle wrote: I don't see any reason to include the documentation in the xetex manual texdoc dvipdfmx provides a 5 or so page tugboat article with the details, what's to be gained by copying that? It just duplicates the information and is only of interest to a minuscule fraction of the community. Your average XeTeX user does not know that he or she is using (X)DviPdfm(x). He (or she) knows only that they are using XeTeX and wishing to accomplish something that is clearly possible, since users of XeLaTeX already have access to that functionality (change of colour, embed hyperlink, whatever). Why should it be be necessary for B L User to look for documentation for a driver when that driver comes bundled with, and is automatically invoked by, XeTeX ? It is not as if XeTeX comes with a choice of driver, and each user elects to use the one that he or she prefers. It is /XeTeX/ functionality that we are discussing; the fact that XeTeX elects to delegate responsibility for that task to a specific bundled driver is neither here nor there. ** Phil. -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
> XeTeX My-file .. > XeTeX &LaTeX My-LaTeX-file Philip that's not been true for so long I'm surprised you can remember that far back:-) all the web2c engines load formats based on their name, there is no intrinsic difference between say pdflatex with a preloaded latex and pdftex with a pre loaded plain either of them can be a link to an executable of whatever name. I don't see any reason to include the documentation in the xetex manual texdoc dvipdfmx provides a 5 or so page tugboat article with the details, what's to be gained by copying that? It just duplicates the information and is only of interest to a minuscule fraction of the community. David -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote: Just because you can invent a silly-looking command line to make invoking XeLaTeX look more difficult than it is, doesn't make XeLaTeX stop being an integrated tool chain. However, it seems unlikely that either of us will be able to change the other's mind on this point. Matthew, invoking XeLaTeX requires specific user action; invoking (X)DviPdfm(x) does not -- it is intrinsic to XeTeX. /Surely/ you can see this ? Philip Taylor -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
On Fri, 25 Apr 2014, Philip Taylor wrote: > I'm sorry, Matthew, I can only think you are confusing XeTeX with some other > system. Just because you can invent a silly-looking command line to make invoking XeLaTeX look more difficult than it is, doesn't make XeLaTeX stop being an integrated tool chain. However, it seems unlikely that either of us will be able to change the other's mind on this point. -- Matthew Skala msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before principles. http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/ -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote: On Fri, 25 Apr 2014, Philip Taylor wrote: I'm sorry, what has LaTeX to do with any of this ? You don't want to hear about XeLaTeX, but you write: (X)DVIPDFM(X). Since (X)DVIPDFM(X) is indeed an integral part of the XeTeX tool chain, I think that documenting how to access its functionality (with The tool chain is XeLaTeX. LaTeX is just as much an integral part of that as XDVIPDFMX is. Users of this tool chain use all three together by typing a single command and don't care much which level executes which macro. It still makes sense to ask for documentation of each component alone, because people including yourself do also use the tools separately. But having made that request, "integrated tool chain" is not a sound basis to ask for documentation of a "XeTeX and XDVIPDFMX but not LaTeX" combination, which is neither the components alone nor the complete tool chain. It should be no surprise that documentation of pure XeTeX is documentation of pure XeTeX and does not include XDVIPDFMX features. I'm sorry, Matthew, I can only think you are confusing XeTeX with some other system. If I type (for example) XeTeX My-file and I have /a priori/ a file "My-file.tex", then XeTeX will process that file and emit (assuming no compilation errors) a file "My-file.pdf". I do not have to type (for example) XeTeX My-file (X)DviPdfm(X) That latter stage is intrinsic to XeTeX and requires no explicit user action. If, however, I want to compile (for example) "My-LaTeX-file.tex", then I either have to load the format explicitly : XeTeX &LaTeX My-LaTeX-file or I have to invoke a command that is already aliased to that : XeLaTeX My-LaTeX-file Thus LaTeX is /not/ intrinsic to the XeTeX tool chain, whilst (X)DviPdfm(x) is. Philip Taylor -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 07:18:34PM +0930, Will Robertson wrote: > > Khaled, would you be able update the copy in the xetex repo? Just send me the updated version and I’ll commit it (a git format-patch would be even better but not necessary). Regards, Khaled -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
On Fri, 25 Apr 2014, Philip Taylor wrote: > I'm sorry, what has LaTeX to do with any of this ? You don't want to hear about XeLaTeX, but you write: > (X)DVIPDFM(X). Since (X)DVIPDFM(X) is indeed an integral part of the XeTeX > tool chain, I think that documenting how to access its functionality (with The tool chain is XeLaTeX. LaTeX is just as much an integral part of that as XDVIPDFMX is. Users of this tool chain use all three together by typing a single command and don't care much which level executes which macro. It still makes sense to ask for documentation of each component alone, because people including yourself do also use the tools separately. But having made that request, "integrated tool chain" is not a sound basis to ask for documentation of a "XeTeX and XDVIPDFMX but not LaTeX" combination, which is neither the components alone nor the complete tool chain. It should be no surprise that documentation of pure XeTeX is documentation of pure XeTeX and does not include XDVIPDFMX features. -- Matthew Skala msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before principles. http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/ -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca wrote: XeLaTeX is the integrated toolchain. If you're going to insist that XeTeX without LaTeX must be fully documented as a separate entity, then it only makes sense to do the same for XDVIPDFMX. I'm sorry, what has LaTeX to do with any of this ? Philip Taylor -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
On Apr 25, 2014, at 7:51 AM, Zdenek Wagner wrote: > 2014-04-25 13:59 GMT+02:00 : > On Fri, 25 Apr 2014, Philip Taylor wrote: > > (X)DVIPDFM(X). Since (X)DVIPDFM(X) is indeed an integral part of the XeTeX > > tool chain, I think that documenting how to access its functionality (with > > XeLaTeX is the integrated toolchain. If you're going to insist that XeTeX > without LaTeX must be fully documented as a separate entity, then it only > makes sense to do the same for XDVIPDFMX. > > At least a few years ago there was another XDV->PDF driver for Mac, thus a > user could choose from two possibilities. What is the situation now? If it is > the same, it makes no sense to document xdvipdfmx features as features of > XeTeX because some users might use another driver with different features. Howdy, I believe xdv2pdf has been dead for several years. Good Luck, Herb Schulz (herbs at wideopenwest dot com) -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
2014-04-25 13:59 GMT+02:00 : > On Fri, 25 Apr 2014, Philip Taylor wrote: > > (X)DVIPDFM(X). Since (X)DVIPDFM(X) is indeed an integral part of the > XeTeX > > tool chain, I think that documenting how to access its functionality > (with > > XeLaTeX is the integrated toolchain. If you're going to insist that XeTeX > without LaTeX must be fully documented as a separate entity, then it only > makes sense to do the same for XDVIPDFMX. > At least a few years ago there was another XDV->PDF driver for Mac, thus a user could choose from two possibilities. What is the situation now? If it is the same, it makes no sense to document xdvipdfmx features as features of XeTeX because some users might use another driver with different features. > -- > Matthew Skala > msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before principles. > http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/ > > > > -- > Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex > -- Zdeněk Wagner http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/ http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
On Fri, 25 Apr 2014, Philip Taylor wrote: > (X)DVIPDFM(X). Since (X)DVIPDFM(X) is indeed an integral part of the XeTeX > tool chain, I think that documenting how to access its functionality (with XeLaTeX is the integrated toolchain. If you're going to insist that XeTeX without LaTeX must be fully documented as a separate entity, then it only makes sense to do the same for XDVIPDFMX. -- Matthew Skala msk...@ansuz.sooke.bc.ca People before principles. http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/ -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
Philip Taylor wrote:
Hallo both --
[long snip]
It would also (IMHO) be very helpful to document how to create
hyperlinks at the XeTeX primitive (\special) level; JK writes :
IIRC, hyperlinks are handled entirely at the pdf output driver level; there are
no xetex primitives involved. It's just a question of inserting appropriate
\special{pdf: ...} commands.
So try looking for dvipdfmx documentation about the \special commands it
supports, and the PDF spec if you need help with the exact PDF fragments to
insert. In particular, http://project.ktug.org/dvipdfmx/doc/tb94cho.pdf might
be helpful.
but of course naive users (especially myself) do not think of XeTeX as
just one element in a tool chain; they think that when they compile a
XeTeX source document using XeTeX and a PDF is emitted, it is XeTeX that
has done the emitting, and do not care that it has devolved some part of
its task to (X)DVIPDFM(X). Since (X)DVIPDFM(X) is indeed an integral
part of the XeTeX tool chain, I think that documenting how to access its
functionality (with particular reference to (say) hyperlinks and colour)
would be very beneficial for XeTeX documentation overall.
** Phil.
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Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
Hallo both --
Will Robertson wrote:
I’ve been away from LaTeX development work for a while; I’ve been known to let
primitives slip through the cracks.
Thanks for letting us know — I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some more we
overlooked.
These commands are all described in the pdfTeX manual, and I’ve now added some
(fairly brief) details to xetexref (attached).
Khaled, would you be able update the copy in the xetex repo?
I also have some input from Thanh, which I was intending to flesh out
(noting in particular the microtypographic primitives that have /not/
been ported from PdfTeX to XeTeX) but as I am tied up until Sunday
I append what I already have, and can co-operate with you both to
discuss a final wording from Sunday onwards.
** Phil.
Margin kerning (aka character protrusion) in XeTeX was ported from
pdftex. The following was copied from the PdfTeX manual with some
modification for XeTeX.
\XeTeXprotrudechars
Margin kerning is a technique to allow certain characters to move into
the margin (aka "character protrusion"). When \XeTeXprotrudechars = 1,
the glyphs qualified as such will make this move when applicable,
without changing the line-breaking. When \XeTeXprotrudechars = 2 (or
greater), character protrusion will be taken into account while
considering breakpoints, so line-breaking might be changed. This
qualification and the amount of shift are set by the primitives \rpcode
and \lpcode. Character protrusion is disabled when \XeTeXprotrudechars =
0 (or negative). If you want to protrude some item other than a
character (e.g., an \hbox), you can do so by padding the item with an
invisible zero-width character for which protrusion is activated.
\rpcode
The amount that a character from a given font may shift into the right
margin ("character protrusion") is set by the primitive \rpcode. The
protrusion distance is the integer value given to \rpcode, multiplied
with 0.001 em from the current font. The given integer value is clipped
to the range -1000 .. 1000, corresponding to a usable protrusion range
of -1 em .. 1 em. Example:
\font \x = cmr10
\rpcode \x`, = 200
\rpcode \x`- = 150
Here the comma may shift by 0.2 em into the margin and the hyphen by
0.15 em. All these small bits and pieces will help XeTeX to give you
better paragraphs (use \rpcode judiciously; don't overdo it).
The above example was for TFM fonts. For non-TFM (i.e., native
TrueType/OpenType) fonts, instead of a character code (8-bit number)
\rpcode accepts either a Unicode character code (prefixed by the keyword
"unicode"), a glyph name (prefixed by "name"), or a glyph number [1].
Thus, in the example:
\font \x = "Charis SIL" at 10pt
\rpcode \x unicode "2C = 100
\rpcode \x name "comma" = 100
\rpcode \x 15 = 100
the three \rpcode lines all have the exact same effect, as the comma
glyph in this font has glyph ID 15.
In most cases, setting character protrusion values via Unicode
codepoints will be the simplest and most robust approach; glyph names
and glyph IDs are provided for cases such as contextual forms that are
not directly accessible via Unicode character codes.
\lpcode
This is similar to \rpcode, but affects the amount by which characters
may protrude into the left margin.
> Is it therefore the case that the only three primitives that are
> relevant to microtypography which have been ported to XeTeX are :
>
>>> \XeTeXprotrudechars
>>> \rpcode
>>> \lpcode
yes
> What of (for example)
>
>>> \leftmarginkern
>>> \rightmarginkern
>>> \pdffontexpand
>>> \pdfadjustspacing
>>> \efcode
>
> etc ?
not implemented. I started to implement font expansion sometime ago
but could not finish it due to lack of time
> Also, are you able to offer any insights into the questions of
> unitless codes v. s that I raised ?
>
>
>>> Why the last parameter to \rpcode and friends are codes and not
>>> s ? In other words, of the final parameter to \rpcode is a
>>> unitless number that actually represents 0.001 em; why not let
>>> there be an (e.g.,) an \rpwidth such that one could write (for
>>> example)
>>>
>>> \def \TeXtoUnicode {U}
>>> \XeTeXprotrudechars = 2
>>> \rpwidth \fd \TeXtoUnicode `\- = 0,25 em
>>> \rpwidth \fd \TeXtoUnicode `\. = 0,15 em
>>>
>>> rather than the unitless (and therefore apparently arbitrary)
>>>
>>> \def \TeXtoUnicode {U}
>>> \XeTeXprotrudechars = 2
>>> \rpcode \fd \TeXtoUnicode `\- = 250
>>> \rpcode \fd \TeXtoUnicode `\. = 150
>>>
>>> as at present ?
it makes more sense to specify margin kerning in proportion to em. If
you prefer to specify dimen, it's a simple exercise of macro
programming to implement \rpwidth using \rpcode.
Thanh.
[1]
CHECK THIS : IS "unicode" allowed or only "U"/"u", and is "name"
allowed or only a forward slash ?
JK (http://tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2010-May/016531.html)
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
On 15 Apr 2014, at 9:49 am, Khaled Hosny wrote: > On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 12:58:23PM +0100, Philip Taylor wrote: >> >> Why are these key XeTeX primitives (\XeTeXprotrudechars, \rpcode, etc) >> not documented in /The XƎTEX reference guide/ ? Will, Khaled, >> Jonathan : can you comment on this, and will these (and any other >> currently undocumented primitives) be documented in the version of >> /The XƎTEX reference guide/ which accompanies TeX Live 2014 ? > > From me: simply because I know near nothing about them. I’ve been away from LaTeX development work for a while; I’ve been known to let primitives slip through the cracks. Thanks for letting us know — I wouldn’t be surprised if there were some more we overlooked. These commands are all described in the pdfTeX manual, and I’ve now added some (fairly brief) details to xetexref (attached). Khaled, would you be able update the copy in the xetex repo? Thanks all, Will xetex-reference.tex Description: Binary data -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
Hi Phil,
Have you ever tried
\input miniltx.tex
This then allows a subset of LaTeX structural commands and internals to be used
without the documentclass stuff — which is what I think you detest most.
Now many LaTeX packages can be loaded and used, without problems, in what are
otherwise plain TeX documents. Just use, e.g.
\usepackage{color}
as in a LaTeX document.
I'm pretty sure that graphics.sty and graphicx.sty are usable this way, and
also hyperref.sty ,
and its driver files, including hdvipdfmx.def — I think this is the correct
name.
Now all the documentation you want about hyperlinks is in the book The LaTeX
Web Companion, or in the PDFs built from the .dtx documentation files for the
LaTeX packages.
Use the texdoc command to access these.
Beware that not all LaTeX packages work this way. That will depend upon what
the authors of the packages have used internally. There can be inter-package
dependencies, ultimately leading back to the parts of LaTeX that you have not
loaded. You have to just try things out, and use what works, perhaps keeping
records of what does or does not.
Hope this helps,
Ross
On 15/04/2014, at 19:07, Philip Taylor wrote:
>
>
> Khaled Hosny wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 12:58:23PM +0100, Philip Taylor wrote:
>>>
>>> Why are these key XeTeX primitives (\XeTeXprotrudechars, \rpcode, etc)
>>> not documented in /The XƎTEX reference guide/ ? Will, Khaled,
>>> Jonathan : can you comment on this, and will these (and any other
>>> currently undocumented primitives) be documented in the version of
>>> /The XƎTEX reference guide/ which accompanies TeX Live 2014 ?
>>
>> From me: simply because I know near nothing about them.
>
> Fully understood. In that case, may I ask Jonathan where these primitives
> are, in fact, documented, so that Khaled and Will can
> potentially make use of this information if they choose to
> prepare a TeX Live 2014 edition of /The XƎTEX reference guide/ ?
>
> Also, are there any other currently undocumented XeTeX primitives,
> and where can be found any information on embedding hyperlinks
> using XeTeX ?
>
> Philip Taylor
>
>
>
>
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Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
OK, thank you Vafa, I will ask Thành. ** Phil. Vafa Khalighi wrote: If I recall correctly, Hàn Thế Thành added these primitives to XeTeX; therefore he knows them best. -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
If I recall correctly, Hàn Thế Thành added these primitives to XeTeX; therefore he knows them best. On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 7:07 PM, Philip Taylor wrote: > > > Khaled Hosny wrote: > > On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 12:58:23PM +0100, Philip Taylor wrote: >> >>> >>> Why are these key XeTeX primitives (\XeTeXprotrudechars, \rpcode, etc) >>> not documented in /The XƎTEX reference guide/ ? Will, Khaled, >>> Jonathan : can you comment on this, and will these (and any other >>> currently undocumented primitives) be documented in the version of >>> /The XƎTEX reference guide/ which accompanies TeX Live 2014 ? >>> >> >> From me: simply because I know near nothing about them. >> > > Fully understood. In that case, may I ask Jonathan where these primitives > are, in fact, documented, so that Khaled and Will can > potentially make use of this information if they choose to > prepare a TeX Live 2014 edition of /The XƎTEX reference guide/ ? > > Also, are there any other currently undocumented XeTeX primitives, > and where can be found any information on embedding hyperlinks > using XeTeX ? > > Philip Taylor > > > > > -- > Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex > -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
Khaled Hosny wrote: On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 12:58:23PM +0100, Philip Taylor wrote: Why are these key XeTeX primitives (\XeTeXprotrudechars, \rpcode, etc) not documented in /The XƎTEX reference guide/ ? Will, Khaled, Jonathan : can you comment on this, and will these (and any other currently undocumented primitives) be documented in the version of /The XƎTEX reference guide/ which accompanies TeX Live 2014 ? From me: simply because I know near nothing about them. Fully understood. In that case, may I ask Jonathan where these primitives are, in fact, documented, so that Khaled and Will can potentially make use of this information if they choose to prepare a TeX Live 2014 edition of /The XƎTEX reference guide/ ? Also, are there any other currently undocumented XeTeX primitives, and where can be found any information on embedding hyperlinks using XeTeX ? Philip Taylor -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
On Thu, Apr 10, 2014 at 12:58:23PM +0100, Philip Taylor wrote: > > Why are these key XeTeX primitives (\XeTeXprotrudechars, \rpcode, etc) > not documented in /The XƎTEX reference guide/ ? Will, Khaled, > Jonathan : can you comment on this, and will these (and any other > currently undocumented primitives) be documented in the version of > /The XƎTEX reference guide/ which accompanies TeX Live 2014 ? >From me: simply because I know near nothing about them. -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
Robert wrote: On 10.04.14 16:53, Philip Taylor wrote: I would like to write : \XeTeXprotrudechars = 2 \rpcode \fd \TeXtoUnicode `\- = 250 \rpcode \fd \TeXtoUnicode `\. = 150 does \TeXtoUnicode already exist, Yes, it exists: "U" (as explained here: http://tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2010-May/016531.html). So: \XeTeXprotrudechars = 2 \rpcode \fd U`\- = 250 \rpcode \fd U`\. = 150 should do what you want. Ah, excellent news. Yes, I confess it can be deduced from the link that you cite, but it would perhaps have been rather more obvious had the link used `\ rather than ". Perhaps when/if this information gets added to /The XƎTEX reference guide/, the examples could include this vital hint. Philip Taylor -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
On 10.04.14 16:53, Philip Taylor wrote: Further to this thread, in a document on which I am currently working I have to write : \XeTeXprotrudechars = 2 \rpcode \fd /hyphen = 250 \rpcode \fd /period = 150 I would like to write : \XeTeXprotrudechars = 2 \rpcode \fd `\- = 250 \rpcode \fd `\. = 150 Simple (ie. non-prefixed) numbers designate font-specific glyph positions, while you want the Unicode char code. or at worst : \XeTeXprotrudechars = 2 \rpcode \fd \TeXtoUnicode `\- = 250 \rpcode \fd \TeXtoUnicode `\. = 150 Clearly there /is/ a reason why the first was not / cannot be implemented, but (a) what is that reason, and (b) does \TeXtoUnicode already exist, Yes, it exists: "U" (as explained here: http://tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2010-May/016531.html). So: \XeTeXprotrudechars = 2 \rpcode \fd U`\- = 250 \rpcode \fd U`\. = 150 should do what you want. Best, -- Robert -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
Re: [XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
Further to this thread, in a document on which I am currently working I have to write : \XeTeXprotrudechars = 2 \rpcode \fd /hyphen = 250 \rpcode \fd /period = 150 I would like to write : \XeTeXprotrudechars = 2 \rpcode \fd `\- = 250 \rpcode \fd `\. = 150 or at worst : \XeTeXprotrudechars = 2 \rpcode \fd \TeXtoUnicode `\- = 250 \rpcode \fd \TeXtoUnicode `\. = 150 Clearly there /is/ a reason why the first was not / cannot be implemented, but (a) what is that reason, and (b) does \TeXtoUnicode already exist, and if not, are there complexities in implementing it which I have not foreseen ? Philip Taylor -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
[XeTeX] XeTeX (/not/ XeLaTeX) : Marginal kerning, font protrusion, hyperlinks
On 25/03/2014 09:03, I write (to XeTeX-Bounces, not to the correct list address) the message below. Ross Moore kindly offered an off-list answer, but basically that was suggesting to use the XeLaTeX interface to the features in which I was interested and to use TeX's debugging tools to try to ascertain what was going on at the primitive level; in the case of hyperlinks, I failed to achieve this (see below). I then discovered (to my chagrin) that I had asked a very similar question on 04/10/2012 09:06, and Jonathan Kew had kindly responded The clues you're looking for can be found in the archives of this list: see http://tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2010-May/016465.html. Jonathan was (of course) perfectly correct in that clues could indeed be found in the message to which he refers, but there seems a more important question which remains unresolved : Why are these key XeTeX primitives (\XeTeXprotrudechars, \rpcode, etc) not documented in /The XƎTEX reference guide/ ? Will, Khaled, Jonathan : can you comment on this, and will these (and any other currently undocumented primitives) be documented in the version of /The XƎTEX reference guide/ which accompanies TeX Live 2014 ? As regards the hyperlink question, I still remain totally unclear how this can be addressed at the primitive level; I have successfully embedded hyperlinks using "eplain.tex", but that has very undesirable side-effects and I prefer not to be dependent on auxilliary libraries; could anyone please tell me how hyperlinks can be successfully created in raw XeTeX source code ? Many thanks in advance : Philip Taylor My sincere apologies for asking what may well be a couple of FAQs, but ever increasingly any attempt to search for information concerning TeX, PdfTeX or XeTeX returns information relevant only to LaTeX, PdfLaTeX or XeLaTeX [1]. So, that said, could some kind person please remind me how to (a) embed hyperlinks in XeTeX source (b) enable character protrusion and/or marginal kerning (ditto). The "and/or" is because I am not clear whether they are the same thing. The document returned by "TeXdoc XeTeX", which commences The XƎTEX reference guide Will Robertson Khaled Hosny May 21, 2013 does not contain any mention of any of these features. Many thanks in advance : Philip Taylor [1] "Use language like a surgeon's scalpel, not like a chainsaw", wrote someone with whom I very strongly agree. If only those seeking information concerning LaTeX, PdfLaTeX or XeTeX could use those words in their questions, rather than omitting the vital "La" element, search engines such as Google would be far more effective in returning the information that I seek rather than (as now) a great deal of information that is completely irrelevant. -- Subscriptions, Archive, and List information, etc.: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/xetex
