--- Owen Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 2003-08-04 at 09:10, Egbert Eich wrote: > > Bugzilla 558 requests to change the behavoir of shift+<numpad arrow keys> > > > > > In reasonable X GUIs (GNome/KDE), shift + <regular arrow key> selects text. > > > But if i press shift + <numpad arrow key>, i get numbers! So the current XKB > > > behavior makes Shift kind of like the "lockless" version of Numlock, which is > > > insane, IMHO. the numpad keys are *arrow* keys (unless numlock is turned on) > > > > > > by definition. Shift should have no effect on them. The current behavior is > > > contrary to what Windows users are used to (and highly annoying for this > > > reason). I see no reason to have a different behaviour to Microsoft in this > > > regard (seeing as though this can potentially piss off 90+% of users), apart > > > from the sake of wanting to be different (which is not a good reason). > > > Instead of a being just a whinger, I provide this patch (please apply with -l) > > > > This requests sounds reasonable so I would like to find out if > > somebody has a strong opinion on this issue. > > If not I will commit the supplied fix. > > Well, the current setup is compatible with the non-XKB behavior > documented in section 12.7 of the Xlib reference manual. > Doesn't the X Protocol also state that Shift shouldn't cancel CAPS? :P
> So, there are some compatibility concerns about changing it. > You could imagine an application that documented shortcuts > with respect to the current system. > Yes, I agree. Making it configurable as others have suggested is certainly a good idea. > I don't think that is necessarily a killer objection if there > are significant usability advantages to a different mapping, > but what seems to be missing above (and in the bug report) is more > details of *why* this behavior is annoying. > > While it may be unexpected, it doesn't seem to me that pressing > <shift>+KP_whatever is something you would do by accident. Let me explain: <passionate_argument> My first keyboard was a "mainframe keyboard" that just didn't have the gray arrow keys between the main part of the keyboard and the numpad as found on 104-key extended us keyboards. So I got into the habit of using the numpad as arrow keys since they were the only arrow keys on the keyboard. This is also why I expect Shift+KP_arrow to select text because it's a habit I've gotten into (and like smoking, it's hard to quit). So right now, I'm trying to select text and I end up typing numbers instead. Grrr. The other reason is that, imho, the numpad is superior to the gray arrow keys in terms of navigational usability. The Home, End, PgUp, PgDn and Del keys are placed in close proximity to the numpad arrow keys and they are placed logically (rather than the seemingly random layout of the corresponding gray keys). This means that while editing source code, you can just move your right hand to the numpad and quickly jab PgUp, Up, Left and then Delete that extra semicolon all in a split second and then return your hand to the main part of the keyboard and continue touch typing. If you try doing this with the middle, gray keys, you'll find that: a) your fingers will have to move more because the arrows are separated from Insert, Home, Delete, PgUp etc. b) you'll press the wrong keys since they are sooo badly laid out. Someone today at work accused me of "missing the point" of the numpad. He claims that it is only useful for typing numbers quickly with Numlock on. My opinion is that if you're a touch typist, it is far quicker to press the numbers above the main part of the keyboard. For these usability reasons, I think Shift+KP_key should select text by default. </passionate_argument> > And I wouldn't expect many people to have learned to use > <shift>+kp_arrows for extending the selection. > Yes, I asked around today at work and apparently, "normal people" keep Numlock on so they never even try pressing <shift>+kp_arrows. I just think they don't understand the power of the numpad used "properly" :-) __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com _______________________________________________ Devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://XFree86.Org/mailman/listinfo/devel
