Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-31 Thread Alex Deucher
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 6:53 AM, Harald Braumann wrote:
> Hi,
>
> is there any chip out there for which hardware accelerated HD video
> decoding is supported by an open-source driver? Or for which at least
> documentation exists so that it could be implemented?

Video decode acceleration (at least motion compensation) for all
radeon chips could be implemented with the currently available
documentation.  For r3xx and above it would be implemented in shaders.
 For r1xx/r2xx, the 3D engine has a special MC mode.

Alex
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OT: Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-31 Thread Timothy S. Nelson
On Mon, 31 Aug 2009, Arjen van der Meijden wrote:

> On 29-8-2009 12:53, Harald Braumann wrote:
>> I for one care less about 3D acceleration. But it's very frustrating
>> that it's still not possible to watch full HD videos on Linux.
>
> This is slightly off-topic, but I had to comment on your statement.

I know I cured some audio stutters by getting the kernel-rt package 
(kernel with realtime patches) from the CCRMA project (I'm on Fedora).  Maybe 
this would work with Video too.

:)


-
| Name: Tim Nelson | Because the Creator is,|
| E-mail: wayl...@wayland.id.au| I am   |
-

BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK
Version 3.12
GCS d+++ s+: a- C++$ U+++$ P+++$ L+++ E- W+ N+ w--- V- 
PE(+) Y+>++ PGP->+++ R(+) !tv b++ DI D G+ e++> h! y-
-END GEEK CODE BLOCK-

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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-31 Thread Arjen van der Meijden
On 29-8-2009 12:53, Harald Braumann wrote:
> I for one care less about 3D acceleration. But it's very frustrating
> that it's still not possible to watch full HD videos on Linux. 

This is slightly off-topic, but I had to comment on your statement.

I have been watching 1080p content on my linux-htpc for over a year 
using Intel's G35-videochip and a E6750 (2.6Ghz Core 2), which could 
decode (almost?) all of the video content I threw at it with at most a 
minor stutter so now and then.
My system did start stuttering badly on the famous bird scene, but there 
isn't much material that is that heavy. It would also start to stutter 
when there are heavy background jobs, but using 'nice' and 'ionice' on 
those jobs will help a lot.

I switched to a VDPAU-enabled motherboard last week, and there is no 
significant stuttering with cpu-heavy background jobs running, although 
disk-heavy jobs still make it stuter (so I still need ionice).
My mplayer dropped from 70-100% cpu to 0-2% during full-hd decoding. And 
it indeed requires much less power to play video. The new motherboard is 
so much more power-efficient, it now consumes less power during 
video-playback than the old one did when idling (now idle ~ 70W, full hd 
playback 75-80W vs, old idle ~ 80W and full hd ~ 100W).

So your statement is not true. There are fast enough cpu's to do the 
decoding on their own and there is video-decoding available if you can 
live with the binary drivers from nvidia (at least for now). So there 
are two basic choices; you could pick-up a video-chip that will likely 
get video-decoding in the future (like the Intel G45 and better) and 
combine it with a fast cpu (like a E8200) to use for now, or pick up a 
motherboard with a nvidia chip (like the G9300/9400) and use the binary 
drivers untill the open source guys catch up.
If you're more concerned with power-consumption, the latter is your best 
bet. If you're more concerned with not tainting your linux environment, 
you should go with the first.

Best regards,

Arjen

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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread drago01
On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 1:46 AM, Harald Braumann wrote:
>> since we don't have documentation on the dedicated video
>> decoders onboard most GPUs, and we haven't reverse-engineered them,
>                   
> So there is documentation on some? Which ones? I couldn't
> find any information about that.

He said we _don't_ have documentation ... "since we *don't* have documentation"
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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread Harald Braumann
On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 15:55:09 -0700
Corbin Simpson  wrote:

> - It's not done because we've been working on other things. If it
> makes you feel better, 3D support *is* required for this kind of
> work, 

It neither makes me feel better nor worse. My mail could have been read
as a complaint about people working on 3D rather than video
acceleration. This was not my intention at all. Sorry, if it sounded
that way.

> since we don't have documentation on the dedicated video
> decoders onboard most GPUs, and we haven't reverse-engineered them,
   
So there is documentation on some? Which ones? I couldn't
find any information about that.

> so we'll have to use 3D shaders instead.

AMD's John Bridgman has said somewhere (sorry, don't have the
reference handy), that maybe in the future the specifications of the UVD
could be released to the public. Should that ever happened, would it be
possible to use it from within that state tracker? Or would the state
tracker be tied to tightly to the shader model?

Cheers,
harry

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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread Corbin Simpson
I don't feel like digging through emails and writing point-by-point
replies, so I'm just going to do point-by-point talking-to-myself.

- The APIs for accelerating full decoding and not just colorspace
conversion and scaling (Xv) are:
-- VA-API
-- VDPAU
-- XvBA
-- XvMC

Of those, only VDPAU is worth implementing. XvMC can be done in terms of
VDPAU if you're creative enough.

- OpenCL would be fine for video, but stupid and slow, just like
OpenGL-based video decoding.

- The current plan is to *not* add any more video decoding to any DDX,
but to do it in Gallium using a state tracker. Expand g3dvl to be a true
pipeline, let drivers fill in the pipeline with whatever they can
accelerate, and then expose VDPAU and XvMC to userspace. Of course, only
radeon (me, MrCooper) and nouveau (marcheu, ymanton) have actually
agreed that this is a good idea, but the intel devs will probably keep
maintaining their XvMC and VA-API implementation either way.

- It's not done because we've been working on other things. If it makes
you feel better, 3D support *is* required for this kind of work, since
we don't have documentation on the dedicated video decoders onboard most
GPUs, and we haven't reverse-engineered them, so we'll have to use 3D
shaders instead.
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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread cc . fan
On Sunday, 29th of August 2009 15:06:10 +0200, drago01 wrote:
> They do not depend on the programming language but whether it is done
> in software or hardware.
>
> >From a patent POV there is no difference between an opencl or a C
>
> implementation (you are implementing the patented algorithms), but if
> you are just talking to hardware decoding chip you don't.

Distributions ship lots of patented decoders right now, why should stop doing 
that, just because the decoder is implemented in OpenCL?
I understand your concerns, but they are not really new.
Plus, I would prefer an open source software solution, even if it violates 
(stupid) software patents, over closed hardware solutions.
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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread drago01
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 3:26 PM,  wrote:
> On Saturday, 29th of August 2009 13:03:58+0200, drago01 wrote:
>> But using OpenCL instead of dedicated video hardware would result into
>> patent problems so that many distros cannot ship it by default.
>
> Why should patent problems depend on the programming language?

They do not depend on the programming language but whether it is done
in software or hardware.
>From a patent POV there is no difference between an opencl or a C
implementation (you are implementing the patented algorithms), but if
you are just talking to hardware decoding chip you don't.
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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread Harald Braumann
On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 14:48:11 +0200
cc@gmx.de wrote:

> On Saturday, 29th of August 2009 10:53:06+0200, Harald Braumann wrote:
> > Hi,
> >
> > is there any chip out there for which hardware accelerated HD video
> > decoding is supported by an open-source driver? Or for which at
> > least documentation exists so that it could be implemented?
> >
> > I for one care less about 3D acceleration. But it's very frustrating
> > that it's still not possible to watch full HD videos on Linux.
> 
> I don't know if this guy is still working on it, but you might want
> to have a look at
> http://bitblitter.blogspot.com/2009/01/yes-im-still-decoding-video-using.html
> I don't know much about video decoding, but maybe the best way to do
> video acceleration is to implement the decoder in OpenCL, because it
> will work on future gallium3d drivers and (most important) the
> implementation could be completely open source. (One could also
> implement advanced deinterlacing and other video filters in an
> efficent way) Unfortunately nobody is working on this right now ...

That might be a nice work-around for the moment. But it means using a
lot of resources (i.e. millions and millions of transistors) for
something that dedicated hardware can do effortless, draining maybe a
view watts.

Cheers,
harry



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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread cc . fan
On Saturday, 29th of August 2009 13:03:58+0200, drago01 wrote:
> But using OpenCL instead of dedicated video hardware would result into
> patent problems so that many distros cannot ship it by default.

Why should patent problems depend on the programming language?
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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread Shuang He

Harald Braumann wrote:

On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:27:29 +0800
Shuang He  wrote:

  

You could give this a try.

Thanks
--Shuang

Zou, Nanhai wrote:

Hi, 
   We have enabled VAAPI support for G45 and GM45 platform.


I have tested it with some high profile 1080p mpeg2 stream.
Using a patched mplayer at 
http://www.splitted-desktop.com/~gbeauchesne/mplayer-vaapi/

I can see CPU usage is dramatically reduced.
  


Hi,

but I would still need a vaapi implementation that utilises hardware
acceleration.

Cheers,
harry
  

Hi, harry
   This vaapi implementation does utilize hardware acceleration.

Thanks
   --Shuang
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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread drago01
On Sat, Aug 29, 2009 at 2:48 PM,  wrote:
> On Saturday, 29th of August 2009 10:53:06+0200, Harald Braumann wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> is there any chip out there for which hardware accelerated HD video
>> decoding is supported by an open-source driver? Or for which at least
>> documentation exists so that it could be implemented?
>>
>> I for one care less about 3D acceleration. But it's very frustrating
>> that it's still not possible to watch full HD videos on Linux.
>
> I don't know if this guy is still working on it, but you might want to have a
> look at
> http://bitblitter.blogspot.com/2009/01/yes-im-still-decoding-video-using.html
> I don't know much about video decoding, but maybe the best way to do video
> acceleration is to implement the decoder in OpenCL, because it will work on
> future gallium3d drivers and (most important) the implementation could be
> completely open source. (One could also implement advanced deinterlacing and
> other video filters in an efficent way) Unfortunately nobody is working on 
> this
> right now ...

But using OpenCL instead of dedicated video hardware would result into
patent problems so that many distros cannot ship it by default.
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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread cc . fan
On Saturday, 29th of August 2009 10:53:06+0200, Harald Braumann wrote:
> Hi,
>
> is there any chip out there for which hardware accelerated HD video
> decoding is supported by an open-source driver? Or for which at least
> documentation exists so that it could be implemented?
>
> I for one care less about 3D acceleration. But it's very frustrating
> that it's still not possible to watch full HD videos on Linux.

I don't know if this guy is still working on it, but you might want to have a 
look at
http://bitblitter.blogspot.com/2009/01/yes-im-still-decoding-video-using.html
I don't know much about video decoding, but maybe the best way to do video 
acceleration is to implement the decoder in OpenCL, because it will work on 
future gallium3d drivers and (most important) the implementation could be 
completely open source. (One could also implement advanced deinterlacing and 
other video filters in an efficent way) Unfortunately nobody is working on this 
right now ...
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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread Harald Braumann
On Sat, 29 Aug 2009 19:27:29 +0800
Shuang He  wrote:

> You could give this a try.
> 
> Thanks
> --Shuang
> 
> Zou, Nanhai wrote:
> > Hi, 
> >We have enabled VAAPI support for G45 and GM45 platform.
> >
> > I have tested it with some high profile 1080p mpeg2 stream.
> > Using a patched mplayer at 
> > http://www.splitted-desktop.com/~gbeauchesne/mplayer-vaapi/
> > I can see CPU usage is dramatically reduced.

Hi,

but I would still need a vaapi implementation that utilises hardware
acceleration.

Cheers,
harry


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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread Shuang He
You could give this a try.

Thanks
--Shuang

Zou, Nanhai wrote:
> Hi, 
>We have enabled VAAPI support for G45 and GM45 platform.
>
> I have tested it with some high profile 1080p mpeg2 stream.
> Using a patched mplayer at 
> http://www.splitted-desktop.com/~gbeauchesne/mplayer-vaapi/
> I can see CPU usage is dramatically reduced.
>
> Currently, we only support mpeg2 decoding.
>
> Welcome to test it.
> The git repo is at git://git.freedesktop.org/git/libva, 
> To successful compile the mplayer, you need to choose the libva31 branch.
>
> Thanks
> Zou Nan hai
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Harald Braumann wrote:
> Hi,
>
> is there any chip out there for which hardware accelerated HD video
> decoding is supported by an open-source driver? Or for which at least
> documentation exists so that it could be implemented?
>
> I for one care less about 3D acceleration. But it's very frustrating
> that it's still not possible to watch full HD videos on Linux. 
>
> Cheers,
> harry
>   

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Re: HD-Video Hardwar Acceleration?

2009-08-29 Thread Rohit Garg
> I for one care less about 3D acceleration. But it's very frustrating
> that it's still not possible to watch full HD videos on Linux.

I do care about 3D acceleration, but the absence of hardware video
decoding on Linux is a real downer. VDPAU is cool, but for that you
need a binary blob. What's the status wrt intel chips? They do have
some limited amount of video decode hw available.
>
> Cheers,
> harry
>
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-- 
Rohit Garg

http://rpg-314.blogspot.com/

Senior Undergraduate
Department of Physics
Indian Institute of Technology
Bombay
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