Re: X12 [wasRe: Zoom Support]

2008-12-18 Thread Daniel Stone
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 02:51:52PM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
 I hope that when XI and XKB are reworked a language property will be
 added to the protocol.
 
 Right now many apps try to infer the language being written from the
 xkb layout in use (for on the fly spellchecking, activation of the
 correct locl font features, etc) and since the same layout can be used
 to write different languages the heuristic breaks badly.
 
 MS got it write when they made layout and language two different
 properties apps could query.

Ehm, you could do it as a per-window property (just walk up the tree
until you find one, be it on a subwindow, the top-level app window, or
the default on the root window), but it's nothing the X server knows
about; strictly a client issue.

Cheers,
Daniel


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Re: X12 [wasRe: Zoom Support]

2008-12-18 Thread Olivier Galibert
On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 06:02:33PM +0100, Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
 Layout and language are closely related. Basically for a globalized
 user that types in multiple languages, you have two situations :
 1. If his current layout is sufficient for the other language, he will
 perform a language shift but keep the layout
 2. Otherwise he will perform a simultaneous language+layout shift
 
 So both are dynamic properties that have similar change triggers and
 will probably be controlled by the same desktop bit of code (and
 similarly most apps which will want the status of one of them will
 also want the status of the other)

I'm a globalized user that types in 4 languages or so.  I have one
common layout for all of them, which is a US qwerty with Multi_key and
Kanji keys added.  In my experience language choice for input is never
at the whole desktop level but at the window or even more often
logical subwindow level (file in xemacs, tab in firefox for wikis...).
I expect such a language change to stay fixed in the logical subwindow
context I do it in.  I don't want a switch to english in my grant
proposal edition window acts on the mail writing I'm doing with the
french colleagues I'm communicating with about it.

OTOH, if I was doing layout switches, I suspect I'd hate having it
change with the focus.  Keyboard layout is semantically linked with
the keyboard, so moving the mouse (focus-follow-mouse) and possibly
clicking in a window has nothing to do with the keyboard, so shouldn't
change the layout (except if what you click on is a change kb layout
icon/button obviously).

I really think that in terms of mental model, layout changes and input
language changes usually don't have the same scope, and the X server
and X protocol are at the wrong level for the language changes but at
the correct level for keyboard layout changes (under client-side
control obviously).

  OG.
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