Re: Jaunty Artwork Update

[Jelle de Jong]

Jannis Pohlmann wrote:
> On Tue, 17 Mar 2009 10:10:27 +0100
> Jelle de Jong  wrote:
> 
>> Lionel Le Folgoc wrote:
>>> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 07:20:23PM +0100, Jelle de Jong wrote:
>>>> Cody A.W. Somerville wrote:
>>>>> 2009/3/16 Vincent >>>> <mailto:mailingli...@vinnl.nl>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks for all your hard work :)
>>>>>
>>>>> I tried the GDM theme here on Intrepid but it didn't work (it
>>>>> just displayed a default theme), but that might be because it's
>>>>> Intrepid...
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway, I had some concerns regarding shipping stuff after the
>>>>> release. Does that mean that people's themes will be changed
>>>>> with a normal system update? I can very well imagine people not
>>>>> appreciating this.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> It won't happen ;)
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, perhaps it would be better to ship it with Karmic
>>>>> anyway so we then have a really polished updated desktop and
>>>>> generate some buzz with that ;-)
>>>>>
>>>>> -- 
>>>>> Vincent
>>>> I would also like to come with a request regarding the packaging
>>>> of the icons, gtk theme, gdm artwork, usplash etcetera. Can we
>>>> please package all these items separately [...]
>>> This can probably be done for karmic. But please file a bug report
>>> against xubuntu-artwork, otherwise it's going to be forgotten...
>>>
>>>> [...] and also upload theme to debian upstream. Then
>>>> create a virtual package special for this xubuntu release and have
>>>> the necessary other packages as dependencies. This way the artwork
>>>> can also be used by other distributions, especially for icons, gkt
>>>> themes and usplash this would be very much appreciated.
>>> I fail to see the point in uploading xubuntu-* to Debian for
>>> example: this is really xubuntu-specific, and not really applicable
>>> to Debian‽
>>>
>>> Indeed, icons and gtk+ themes should be packaged separately, in
>>> their own package (gtk-engines-* and gnome-icon-theme-*), as they
>>> are not xubuntu-specific at all.
>>>
>> Done, see:
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/344130
>>
>> And I did not mean the xubuntu-* to be uploaded to debian upstream :-)
>> But i was revering to the individual artwork and then make a xubuntu-*
>> package that depends on them and keep this package in the ubuntu
>> repository, this way the individual artwork packages will be
>> available in other distributions.
> 
> AFAIK, this is not possible for Jaunty anymore because we've passed the
> deadline for new modules to be added. So unless I'm mistaken this has
> to wait until after Jaunty.

Yes I now it was already said this would be for karmic, i am fine with
this as long as progress is made :-D

Best regards,

Jelle

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Re: Jaunty Artwork Update

[Jelle de Jong]

Lionel Le Folgoc wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 16, 2009 at 07:20:23PM +0100, Jelle de Jong wrote:
>> Cody A.W. Somerville wrote:
>>>
>>> 2009/3/16 Vincent mailto:mailingli...@vinnl.nl>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for all your hard work :)
>>>
>>> I tried the GDM theme here on Intrepid but it didn't work (it just
>>> displayed a default theme), but that might be because it's Intrepid...
>>>
>>> Anyway, I had some concerns regarding shipping stuff after the
>>> release. Does that mean that people's themes will be changed with a
>>> normal system update? I can very well imagine people not
>>> appreciating this.
>>>
>>>
>>> It won't happen ;)
>>>  
>>>
>>> Also, perhaps it would be better to ship it with Karmic anyway so we
>>> then have a really polished updated desktop and generate some buzz
>>> with that ;-)
>>>
>>> -- 
>>> Vincent
>> I would also like to come with a request regarding the packaging of the
>> icons, gtk theme, gdm artwork, usplash etcetera. Can we please package
>> all these items separately [...]
> 
> This can probably be done for karmic. But please file a bug report
> against xubuntu-artwork, otherwise it's going to be forgotten...
> 
>> [...] and also upload theme to debian upstream. Then
>> create a virtual package special for this xubuntu release and have the
>> necessary other packages as dependencies. This way the artwork can also
>> be used by other distributions, especially for icons, gkt themes and
>> usplash this would be very much appreciated.
> 
> I fail to see the point in uploading xubuntu-* to Debian for example:
> this is really xubuntu-specific, and not really applicable to Debian‽
> 
> Indeed, icons and gtk+ themes should be packaged separately, in their
> own package (gtk-engines-* and gnome-icon-theme-*), as they are not
> xubuntu-specific at all.
> 

Done, see:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/344130

And I did not mean the xubuntu-* to be uploaded to debian upstream :-)
But i was revering to the individual artwork and then make a xubuntu-*
package that depends on them and keep this package in the ubuntu
repository, this way the individual artwork packages will be available in
other distributions.

Thanks,

Best regards,

Jelle

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Re: Jaunty Artwork Update

[Jelle de Jong]

Cody A.W. Somerville wrote:
> 
> 
> 2009/3/16 Vincent mailto:mailingli...@vinnl.nl>>
> 
> 
> Thanks for all your hard work :)
> 
> I tried the GDM theme here on Intrepid but it didn't work (it just
> displayed a default theme), but that might be because it's Intrepid...
> 
> Anyway, I had some concerns regarding shipping stuff after the
> release. Does that mean that people's themes will be changed with a
> normal system update? I can very well imagine people not
> appreciating this.
> 
> 
> It won't happen ;)
>  
> 
> Also, perhaps it would be better to ship it with Karmic anyway so we
> then have a really polished updated desktop and generate some buzz
> with that ;-)
> 
> -- 
> Vincent

I would also like to come with a request regarding the packaging of the
icons, gtk theme, gdm artwork, usplash etcetera. Can we please package
all these items separately and also upload theme to debian upstream. Then
create a virtual package special for this xubuntu release and have the
necessary other packages as dependencies. This way the artwork can also
be used by other distributions, especially for icons, gkt themes and
usplash this would be very much appreciated.

Thanks in advance,

Jelle de Jong

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Re: Testing new Xubuntu features

[Jelle de Jong]

Jim Campbell wrote:
> 
> 
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Jelle de Jong
> mailto:jelledej...@powercraft.nl>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jim,
> 
> Will the new release contain the beta/alpha 4.6 releases of the xfce
> team?
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jelle
> 
> 
> 
> Hi Jelle,
> 
> Yes, Xfce 4.6rc1 is currently in the Jaunty repos and is currently
> included in the default Xubuntu installation image. 
> 
> It looks like the Xfce developers will be releasing 4.6 final within the
> next few days, so I'm sure we'll be getting that version fairly soon, too.
> 
> Jim

Thanks Jim,

Beside the fact that its an interesting strategy to use the 4.6
release for a full desktop release in the aspect of risk and quality
management. How does the Debian xfce team stand by the packaging of
the 4.6 release candidates?

For testing, I would like to see the following tested:

- the new xfconf settings, try changing all settings
- all features of the desktop panel
- all features of the window manager
- the artwork on multiple resolutions very low to very high
- stability of thunar

Thanks in advance,

Jelle

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Re: Testing new Xubuntu features

[Jelle de Jong]

Jim Campbell wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> With the Global Bug Jam coming up, I wanted to see if there were
> particular new features in Xubuntu that you wanted people to test out
> during the bug jam.  Please let me know, and I'll add them to my Loco
> Team wiki so that people at the bug jam can know to test them.
> 
> We can also blog a bit about these new features so that people can know
> to test them during the New Features testing day that is coming up on
> Monday ( http://blog.qa.ubuntu.com/node/31 ).
> 
> Best,
> 
> Jim
> 

Hi Jim,

Will the new release contain the beta/alpha 4.6 releases of the xfce team?

Best regards,

Jelle

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thanks to cody

[Jelle de Jong]

I would like to thank Cody for his efforts in leading the Xubuntu team
and proving us all with communication. There were times things didn't
look so good, but the last months I have seen a team build and work
starting to be done. Thumps up for everybody.

Keep up this good direction! and xubutu will get better and better.

Best regards,

Jelle

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Re: Help with xubuntu

[Jelle de Jong]

Leonardo Ortiz wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> At this moment I have the following objection: I have an application in
> production in Java 1.4, operating system Xubuntu 7.10
> (Xubuntu-7.10-desktop-i386) and that after some time your computer
> freezes and start a beep, so that the user had no choice but to restart
> the computer. These blockades are random and occur several times a day.
> 
> It has already been revised application, but did not find anything
> suspicious. What alternative could have on this?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> -- 
> Cordialmente,
> 
> Leonardo Ortiz
> WebSite: http://leonardo.ortiz.iespana.es
> Celular: 3134392372
> E-mails: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 

Dear Leonardo,

I have read your email, but there is no real specific information about
the problem, or the debug process that you have used. I will try to help
you a bit, but this is the xubuntu-devel mailinglist why do you think
this is xubuntu releated? Have you tried other Linux distributions like
Fedora, Ubuntu Desktop, Debian Stable Etch?

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: Desktop becoming art

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> On Fri, Aug 1, 2008 at 11:32 AM, Jim Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi Jmak,
>>
>> On Thu, Jul 31, 2008 at 9:27 PM, jmak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> Here, I would like to take the opportunity to send out a second call:
>>> is anybody out there who has a more depth understanding about the
>>> underlying code of the usplash and could help me implementing a new
>>> progress bar?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> jmak
>> Have you checked with anyone in the ubuntu-art mailing list?  Perhaps
>> someone on that list could be of more assistance.
>>
> Hi Jim,
> 
> I already did that the last year, no help.
> 
> jmak
> 

Hi Jmak,

And the gnome-artwork team or even fedora-artwork team?

If they don't I will personally go after it. If possible please send the 
archive links of the related messages of there representing mailing-lists.

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: alsamixergui

[Jelle de Jong]

Jelle de Jong wrote:
> Robert Jansen wrote:
>> hallo everybody,  i have a problem with the xubuntu alsamixergui, i cant 
>> find where i can switch on the microphone here it has 2 red buttons 
>> above it on the slider panel,  how do i switch it on ?
>>
>> greetings robert Jansen
> 
> Hi Robert,
> 
> Maybe you can try hitting the space bar, or try
> alsamixer from the command line and hit the space on the microphone 
> (mic) element.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jelle
> 
> PS: This is the development mailing list user questions are better for 
> the user mailing list that can be found here:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-users
> 

Some updates to prevent some confusion, in alsamixer the element is 
called "capture" not "mic" the view mode should be "all" or "capture" to 
see the element, you can hit the "tab" key to change the view mode, or 
press "h" to get help showed˙

As an example to get audio working on a asus eeepc i created these 
commands to automatically set the alsamixer levels:

amixer set 'PCM' 90%
amixer set 'Line-Out' 90%
amixer set 'Line-Out' unmute
amixer set 'Capture' 90%
amixer set 'Capture' uncap
amixer set 'Digital' 90%
amixer set 'Input Source' 'i-Mic'
amixer set 'e-Mic' 70%
amixer set 'e-Mic' mute
amixer set 'e-Mic Boost' 33%
amixer set 'i-Mic' 70%
amixer set 'i-Mic' mute
amixer set 'i-Mic Boost' 33%
amixer set 'iSpeaker' unmute

Best regards,

Jelle

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Re: alsamixergui

[Jelle de Jong]

Robert Jansen wrote:
> hallo everybody,  i have a problem with the xubuntu alsamixergui, i cant 
> find where i can switch on the microphone here it has 2 red buttons 
> above it on the slider panel,  how do i switch it on ?
> 
> greetings robert Jansen

Hi Robert,

Maybe you can try hitting the space bar, or try
alsamixer from the command line and hit the space on the microphone 
(mic) element.

Best regards,

Jelle

PS: This is the development mailing list user questions are better for 
the user mailing list that can be found here:
https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-users

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Re: Current builds

[Jelle de Jong]

Cody A.W. Somerville wrote:
> Few problems:
> 
> 1. So the Xubuntu livefs is failing to build because gnumerics (now that 
> we dropped the -gtk variant) is pulling in evince via a recommend. 
> However, we seed evince-gtk which causes a conflict.
> 
> 2. We're pulling in gnome-panels, gnome-session, gnome-control-center, 
> etc. etc. through totem-gstreamer which recommends gnome-control-center.

Hi Cody,

I noticed these problems before, I am willing to make some time free to 
make bug reports against these packages upstream by debian sid. But we 
first need some good plan and background information to convince these 
packagers to use less non essential dependency.

Maybe it has also something to do with with apt-recommends that are by 
default on. Maybe we should disable the install recommends by default?

If there is a good platform to fallback on for convincing package 
maintainers to exclude non essential dependency's, then I will be able 
to help out with creation of new bug reports.

BTW: I am ignoring Jmaks mails about artwork to prevent a big "Bikeshed 
Effect" or a "Holy War". I believe the artwork should be created with 
narrow cooperation with the gnome-artwork team, and artwork decisions 
for xubuntu should be made by the core commiters of that team. Not by a 
few persons here on the xubuntu-devel list.

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: Fonts

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> On 7/7/08, George Brooke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 07 Jul 2008 22:16:54 +0200
>>  Jelle de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>  > jmak wrote:
>>  > > Hi,
>>  > > In order to produce a real high quality desktop environment every
>>  > > little detail counts, including fonts. There is an absolutely high
>>  > > quality font family that has been created for Goggle, called Droid.
>>  > > Ubuntu has been negotiating with Goggle to completely open-source
>>  > > them. If they succeed, the font family will be used on Ubuntu as
>>  > > default system fonts. They are mac quality fonts and look great on
>>  > > xubuntu too. If the negotiations succeed, we should also use them as
>>  > > default system fonts. Download and try them out. From here:
>>  > >
>>  > > 
>> http://damieng.com/blog/2007/11/14/droid-font-family-courtesy-of-google-ascender
>>  > >
>>  > > jmak
>>  > >
>>  >
>>  > Just curious but what's wrong with the liberation-fonts?
>>  >
>>  > Why don't we use them?
>>  >
>>  > https://www.redhat.com/promo/fonts/
>>  >
>>  > http://damieng.com/blog/2007/05/17/red-hat-releases-liberation-fonts
>>  >
>>  > Kind regards,
>>  >
>>  > Jelle
>>  >
>>
>> There's been some discussion on the art mailing list and as a user
>>  (from the screen shots) I really can't see that either is hugely better
>>  than the other.
>>
> 
> Look at the differences, in terms of resolution, clarity and screen
> space economy.
> 
> http://img378.imageshack.us/img378/3581/fontsyh5.png
> 
> jmak
> 

I have no idea what i am comparing sans and droid are general terms. 
Droid is a name for a collection of fonts and Sans is a type of font 
that has different actual font-set as possibility.

But the Sans screen is more clearer for me, the letters are sharper and 
not so thick as the other screen. But this can be just a setting, like 
anti aliasing etcetera.

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: Fonts

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> Hi,
> In order to produce a real high quality desktop environment every
> little detail counts, including fonts. There is an absolutely high
> quality font family that has been created for Goggle, called Droid.
> Ubuntu has been negotiating with Goggle to completely open-source
> them. If they succeed, the font family will be used on Ubuntu as
> default system fonts. They are mac quality fonts and look great on
> xubuntu too. If the negotiations succeed, we should also use them as
> default system fonts. Download and try them out. From here:
> 
> http://damieng.com/blog/2007/11/14/droid-font-family-courtesy-of-google-ascender
> 
> jmak
> 

Just curious but what's wrong with the liberation-fonts?

Why don't we use them?

https://www.redhat.com/promo/fonts/

http://damieng.com/blog/2007/05/17/red-hat-releases-liberation-fonts

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_fonts

http://www.google.com/search?q=liberation-fonts

Kind regards,

Jelle


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Re: Fonts

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> Hi,
> In order to produce a real high quality desktop environment every
> little detail counts, including fonts. There is an absolutely high
> quality font family that has been created for Goggle, called Droid.
> Ubuntu has been negotiating with Goggle to completely open-source
> them. If they succeed, the font family will be used on Ubuntu as
> default system fonts. They are mac quality fonts and look great on
> xubuntu too. If the negotiations succeed, we should also use them as
> default system fonts. Download and try them out. From here:
> 
> http://damieng.com/blog/2007/11/14/droid-font-family-courtesy-of-google-ascender
> 
> jmak
> 

Just curious but what's wrong with the liberation-fonts?

Why don't we use them?

https://www.redhat.com/promo/fonts/

http://damieng.com/blog/2007/05/17/red-hat-releases-liberation-fonts

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: Readers are commenting on ubuntu's intrepid look and feel

[Jelle de Jong]

Cody A.W. Somerville wrote:
> This discussion is more appropriate for another mailing list.

True indeed, but I thought I will give some comments on it, since loads 
of resources of xubuntu are spent on artwork and related discussions 
with every distribution release. I will rest the subject then.

Kind regards,

Jelle

> 
> Cheers,
> 
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 8:36 AM, Jelle de Jong 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> 
> jmak wrote:
>  > On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 4:48 AM, Jelle de Jong
>  > <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>  >> jmak wrote:
>  >>> The look and feel of Ubuntu Intrepid invoked very strong opinions
>  >>> among digg.com <http://digg.com>
> (http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_8_10_Intrepid_Ibex_Alpha_1_Screenshots)
>  >>> readership. Here are some of them.
>  >>> --
>  >>>
>  >>> "What a hideous theme, what really, really worries me is that they
>  >>> even remotely considered something like this let alone made it
>  >>> available.
>  >>>
>  >>> Whoever designed it should be shot."
>  >>>
>  >>> -
>  >>>
>  >>> "I have to agree."
>  >>>
>  >>> 
>  >>>
>  >>> "While I hope nobody will be *shot*, I have to agree that this
> theme is poor.
>  >>> It's unappealing to look at, looks worse when apps are running
> in it
>  >>> (OpenOffice is hideous) and its colour scheme is particularly
> ugly."
>  >>>
>  >>> -
>  >>>
>  >>> WTF ..Is this for real ??
>  >>>
>  >>> --
>  >>>
>  >>> "The theme literally looks like * was smeared all over the
>  >>> monitor. Not that I could do any better, but this theme gives me a
>  >>> feeling less like "human" and more like "sewer"."
>  >>>
>  >>> ---
>  >>>
>  >>> "Ugg...I thought the color scheme was supposed to include
> BLACK. Not
>  >>> ugly mud-crap-brown..."
>  >>>
>  >>> -
>  >>> "The theme is not what I was expecting... I was hoping for
> something a
>  >>> little less... dark brown, like the color of my *."
>  >>>
>  >>> --
>  >>> "Video Conferencing with Nelson Mandela on Ubuntu?"
>  >>>
>  >>> -
>  >>>
>  >>> Up until sunday night, not a single positve comment. Amazing.
>  >>>
>  >>> jmak
>  >>>
>  >
>  >>  let users vote and comment on the best
>  >> layout, and if the majority accepts the new looks and feels,
>  >>
>  >
>  > As a general rule, users should be never allowed to vote, even if
> they
>  > are right. This case demonstrates that look and feel should be given
>  > more priority.
>  >
>  > jmak
>  >
> 
> Just curious why you removed all the surrounding text I posted. I find
> this a bid insulting to manipulate the information given by others. This
> can give an unintended impressions on other readers. Please leave text
> from others intact, this is fair and clear. You can always quote and
> refer to specific line to address more focus on your comments.
> 
> All is about communication with users and developers. Voting and proving
> comments about changes are just a tool to level users and developers and
> provide insights. So that the distribution gets a good match on his
> target audience. I don't see why voting cant be used as a tool. It
> should not be a single decision instrument though, because people can be
> manipulated and make votes with faulty arguments as background.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jelle
> 
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> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Red Cow Marketing & Technologies, Inc.
> Office: 506-458-1290
> Toll Free: 1-877-733-2699
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Re: Readers are commenting on ubuntu's intrepid look and feel

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 30, 2008 at 4:48 AM, Jelle de Jong
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> jmak wrote:
>>> The look and feel of Ubuntu Intrepid invoked very strong opinions
>>> among digg.com 
>>> (http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_8_10_Intrepid_Ibex_Alpha_1_Screenshots)
>>> readership. Here are some of them.
>>> --
>>>
>>> "What a hideous theme, what really, really worries me is that they
>>> even remotely considered something like this let alone made it
>>> available.
>>>
>>> Whoever designed it should be shot."
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> "I have to agree."
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>> "While I hope nobody will be *shot*, I have to agree that this theme is 
>>> poor.
>>> It's unappealing to look at, looks worse when apps are running in it
>>> (OpenOffice is hideous) and its colour scheme is particularly ugly."
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> WTF ..Is this for real ??
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> "The theme literally looks like * was smeared all over the
>>> monitor. Not that I could do any better, but this theme gives me a
>>> feeling less like "human" and more like "sewer"."
>>>
>>> ---
>>>
>>> "Ugg...I thought the color scheme was supposed to include BLACK. Not
>>> ugly mud-crap-brown..."
>>>
>>> -
>>> "The theme is not what I was expecting... I was hoping for something a
>>> little less... dark brown, like the color of my *."
>>>
>>> --
>>> "Video Conferencing with Nelson Mandela on Ubuntu?"
>>>
>>> -
>>>
>>> Up until sunday night, not a single positve comment. Amazing.
>>>
>>> jmak
>>>
> 
>>  let users vote and comment on the best
>> layout, and if the majority accepts the new looks and feels,
>>
> 
> As a general rule, users should be never allowed to vote, even if they
> are right. This case demonstrates that look and feel should be given
> more priority.
> 
> jmak
> 

Just curious why you removed all the surrounding text I posted. I find 
this a bid insulting to manipulate the information given by others. This 
can give an unintended impressions on other readers. Please leave text 
from others intact, this is fair and clear. You can always quote and 
refer to specific line to address more focus on your comments.

All is about communication with users and developers. Voting and proving 
comments about changes are just a tool to level users and developers and 
provide insights. So that the distribution gets a good match on his 
target audience. I don't see why voting cant be used as a tool. It 
should not be a single decision instrument though, because people can be 
manipulated and make votes with faulty arguments as background.

Kind regards,

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Re: Readers are commenting on ubuntu's intrepid look and feel

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> The look and feel of Ubuntu Intrepid invoked very strong opinions
> among digg.com 
> (http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_8_10_Intrepid_Ibex_Alpha_1_Screenshots)
> readership. Here are some of them.
> --
> 
> "What a hideous theme, what really, really worries me is that they
> even remotely considered something like this let alone made it
> available.
> 
> Whoever designed it should be shot."
> 
> -
> 
> "I have to agree."
> 
> 
> 
> "While I hope nobody will be *shot*, I have to agree that this theme is poor.
> It's unappealing to look at, looks worse when apps are running in it
> (OpenOffice is hideous) and its colour scheme is particularly ugly."
> 
> -
> 
> WTF ..Is this for real ??
> 
> --
> 
> "The theme literally looks like * was smeared all over the
> monitor. Not that I could do any better, but this theme gives me a
> feeling less like "human" and more like "sewer"."
> 
> ---
> 
> "Ugg...I thought the color scheme was supposed to include BLACK. Not
> ugly mud-crap-brown..."
> 
> -
> "The theme is not what I was expecting... I was hoping for something a
> little less... dark brown, like the color of my *."
> 
> --
> "Video Conferencing with Nelson Mandela on Ubuntu?"
> 
> -
> 
> Up until sunday night, not a single positve comment. Amazing.
> 
> jmak
> 

I have to agree with the comments, the theming of ubuntu and xubuntu has 
been getting worser and worser with the last releases: there are a few 
good guidelines:
- KiSS (keep it Simple Stupid)
- Less is More
- If it works don't change it to much

If you look at Fedora theming, things are getting cleaner and cleaner 
every release they improve what they have and don't switch every release.

As i sad before in other messages, if you change the looks and feels, 
make this an option. Keep the normal behavior as default, make it easy 
to switch to a new look and feel, let users vote and comment on the best 
layout, and if the majority accepts the new looks and feels, switch the 
new and default behavior but make it easy to revert back. So backwards 
compatibility!

Meaning all artwork should be packaged correctly with sub-packages, so 
changing looks and feels,can be done by installing and removing artwork 
packages.

Just some of my thoughts on sustainable artwork management,

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Re: Side effect of making xubuntu-devel a member of xubuntu-team

[Jelle de Jong]

Vincent wrote:
> 
> 
> On Sat, Apr 26, 2008 at 6:46 PM, Eero Tamminen <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
>     On Saturday 26 April 2008, Jelle de Jong wrote:
>  > > As someone who has focused primarily on the documentation, I
> find the
>  > > deluge of bug reports on the mailing list a little
> overwhelming.  And I
>  > > think it also increases the signal-to-noise ratio for
> discussions on
>  > > the list - it makes it easier for a discussion to get lost.
>  > >
>  > > I'd be willing to take myself off of the Xubuntu team list if
> others
>  > > want to keep things this way, but  I'd prefer to not receive bug
>  > > reports from xubuntu-devel.
>  >
> 
> 
> Maybe there could be a separate xubuntu-bugs mailing list?
> 
> 
> I was just going to suggest this myself, so a +1 from me.

I don't see any reason why not to do this are there any? It will thinks 
more cleaner. so +1 for me to.

Jelle


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Re: Side effect of making xubuntu-devel a member of xubuntu-team

[Jelle de Jong]

Jim Campbell wrote:
> Hi All,
> 
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 8:15 PM, Cody A.W. Somerville 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> 
> A side effect of making xubuntu-devel a member of xubuntu-team is
> that xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
>  is now getting all the
> xubuntu-team bug mail, seed branch change notifications, etc. etc.
> This can either be a good thing or a bad thing.
> 
> If we keep it the way it is:
> 
> 1. People can subscribe to this mailing list for development
> discussion and for bug e-mail (no need to join the xubuntu-team)
> 2. Xubuntu-team could be reserved for individual who are fulfilling
> a leadership role within our community
> 3. Able to easily discuss bug reports and seed changes
> 
> Or we could either remove xubuntu-dev from xubuntu-team or remove
> the contact address (this mailing list) from xubuntu-dev.
> 
> Thoughts, comments, suggestions are welcome.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cody
> 
> 
> As someone who has focused primarily on the documentation, I find the 
> deluge of bug reports on the mailing list a little overwhelming.  And I 
> think it also increases the signal-to-noise ratio for discussions on the 
> list - it makes it easier for a discussion to get lost.
> 
> I'd be willing to take myself off of the Xubuntu team list if others 
> want to keep things this way, but  I'd prefer to not receive bug reports 
> from xubuntu-devel.
> 
> Just my $0.02 USD,
> 
> Jim
> 

I solved this issue by creating an email filter sorting things out for 
me, maybe this can be a solution for you too?

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: Doubt about .PPT

[Jelle de Jong]

Gauvain Pocentek wrote:
> 
> Jelle de Jong wrote:
>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>> Hi fellows,
>>> I'm using Ubuntu since about 3 years, especially Xubuntu due to it's  
>>> good performance in low profile PCs, I'm really good surprised with  
>>> those results. BTW I want to congratulate all of developer team for  
>>> Xubuntu, however my email is not for praise, I have a doubt about  
>>> recommended software.
>>> In my last "case of use" I'm trying to use only GTK software to  
>>> achieve the best performance (at least I think so), It's not matter of  
>>> "GTK's religion", the really thing is I'm trying keep in use a very  
>>> old laptop (only 64Mb of RAM). So far so good, I'm using Xubuntu and  
>>> everything is working fine (really fine !!!). In this case is really  
>>> impossible to use Gnome or KDE's based application and I tried it.
>>> My only problem is with powerpoint presentations. I've browsed a lot  
>>> in Internet without get anything really useful. Most of the people  
>>> only recommend OpenOffice and KOffice. Other recommend me to try using  
>>> pptHtml tool but it only accepts 95/97 formats and moreover only send  
>>> to stdout the text so its results are quite poor. Finally others use  
>>> pptview but it's not a native Linux program so I have to run it over  
>>> wine, so I don't think it'll be a good choice. Before trying with  
>>> pptview I want to try with other native solution so that's why I'm  
>>> here asking your opinions/experiences/recommendations. In the Xubuntu  
>>> Desktop Guide I found (under Finding the Right Program) useful  
>>> software recommendations  but none about presentations (porwepoint or  
>>> .PPT). Can you help me with some recommendation ??.
>>> Thanks a lot in advance
>>> ivan
>>>
>> Hi Ivan,
>>
>> Learn Latex, there are good books out there, use Geany to write and edit 
>> it and use xpdf to present it. This is the best way to create 
>> professional presentations that work on every machine. (32> Mem)
>>
> 
> latex can read .ppt's? I didn't know that...

No LaTeX can not read *.ppt files, with LaTeX you can create very good 
presentations in open standard *.pdf format. It was an advice on the 
good presentation software for Linux question.

> 
> Ivan, I've been looking for such software too, but AFAIK only openoffice can
> do the work (speaking of GTK apps). If you find something else please let us
> know.
> 
> Gauvain



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Re: Doubt about .PPT

[Jelle de Jong]

Ashok Gautham wrote:
> Hi Ivan,
> 
> Learn Latex, there are good books out there, use Geany to write and edit
> it and use xpdf to present it. This is the best way to create
> professional presentations that work on every machine. (32> Mem)
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jelle
> 
> 
> I guess he was talking about viewing existing ones. Google's integrated 
> ppt viewer is enough for me!
> And yeah.. LaTex is my recommend too for creating presentations
> 

I misunderstood sorry for that, I know the evince project is working on 
some sort of ppt plug-in and evince is getting more gtk orientated but 
sadly still uses gnome libs and the ppt plug-in is not ready yet,

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: Doubt about .PPT

[Jelle de Jong]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi fellows,
> I'm using Ubuntu since about 3 years, especially Xubuntu due to it's  
> good performance in low profile PCs, I'm really good surprised with  
> those results. BTW I want to congratulate all of developer team for  
> Xubuntu, however my email is not for praise, I have a doubt about  
> recommended software.
> In my last "case of use" I'm trying to use only GTK software to  
> achieve the best performance (at least I think so), It's not matter of  
> "GTK's religion", the really thing is I'm trying keep in use a very  
> old laptop (only 64Mb of RAM). So far so good, I'm using Xubuntu and  
> everything is working fine (really fine !!!). In this case is really  
> impossible to use Gnome or KDE's based application and I tried it.
> My only problem is with powerpoint presentations. I've browsed a lot  
> in Internet without get anything really useful. Most of the people  
> only recommend OpenOffice and KOffice. Other recommend me to try using  
> pptHtml tool but it only accepts 95/97 formats and moreover only send  
> to stdout the text so its results are quite poor. Finally others use  
> pptview but it's not a native Linux program so I have to run it over  
> wine, so I don't think it'll be a good choice. Before trying with  
> pptview I want to try with other native solution so that's why I'm  
> here asking your opinions/experiences/recommendations. In the Xubuntu  
> Desktop Guide I found (under Finding the Right Program) useful  
> software recommendations  but none about presentations (porwepoint or  
> .PPT). Can you help me with some recommendation ??.
> Thanks a lot in advance
> ivan
> 

Hi Ivan,

Learn Latex, there are good books out there, use Geany to write and edit 
it and use xpdf to present it. This is the best way to create 
professional presentations that work on every machine. (32> Mem)

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: New gdm configuration for testing

[Jelle de Jong]

Jelle de Jong wrote:
>> On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jelle de Jong
>> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>> jmak wrote:
>>>  > Hello,
>>>  >
>>>  > Following Jari's idea we have a different concept of the gdm. I split
>>>  > the original artwork into two graphics, a logo and a login box. Please
>>>  > test this version to see that this solves the login input scaling
>>>  > problem.
>>>  >
>>>  > Download the graphics and the modified Xubuntu.xml files from here.
>>>  >
>>>  > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Hardy
>>>  >
>>>  >
>>>  > Now, you need three graphics, a background, which is the same as the
>>>  > wallpaper, the logo.png and the box.png. Backup your previous
>>>  > Xubuntu.xml file and drop all the above files into the
>>>  > /usr/share/gdm/themes/xubuntu directory to see the result.
>>>  >
>>>  > jmak
>>>  >
>>>
>>>  I have been walking around with this questions for a long time now.
>>>
>>>  But why don't we use upstream artwork and use the slim login manager?
>>>
>>>  I believe this is not against the new xubuntu mission/vision is it?
>>>
>>>  fluxbuntu is using it, why don't we work together with there artwork?
>>>
>>>  Every xubuntu release there is a lot of time and discussion about the
>>>  artwork..
>>>
>>>  http://slim.berlios.de/
>>>  http://wiki.fluxbuntu.org/index.php?title=Explore
>>>  http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials
>>>  http://art.gnome.org/backgrounds/
>>>
>>>  Kind regards,
>>>
>>>  Jelle
>>>
>  > If I am not mistaken, we want each xubuntu release to be a unique
>  > visual experience rather than just a generic piece of look and feel.
>  >
>  > jmak
> 
> We can use different upstream artwork every release. As long as the 
> packaging process is done good and makes backward compatibility possible.
> 
> We could spent more efforts on creating better artwork in the form of 
> consistent tango style icons for all applications, combined with valid 
> .desktop files and svg and png based artwork. Also some HIG improvements 
> in the naming of applications will be a good proses.
> 
> Or is this not a thing we want to focus on?
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jelle
> 
> PS jmak please do not top post or do you have something against bottom 
> posting please share your arguments. I really appreciate bottom posting 
> it allows me to follow the communication of everybody in a organised matter.
> 

I would really like to hear the developers opinion about this? Are my 
suggestions against the xubuntu mission/development strategie?

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Re: New gdm configuration for testing

[Jelle de Jong]

> On Sun, Mar 30, 2008 at 4:53 PM, Jelle de Jong
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> jmak wrote:
>>  > Hello,
>>  >
>>  > Following Jari's idea we have a different concept of the gdm. I split
>>  > the original artwork into two graphics, a logo and a login box. Please
>>  > test this version to see that this solves the login input scaling
>>  > problem.
>>  >
>>  > Download the graphics and the modified Xubuntu.xml files from here.
>>  >
>>  > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Hardy
>>  >
>>  >
>>  > Now, you need three graphics, a background, which is the same as the
>>  > wallpaper, the logo.png and the box.png. Backup your previous
>>  > Xubuntu.xml file and drop all the above files into the
>>  > /usr/share/gdm/themes/xubuntu directory to see the result.
>>  >
>>  > jmak
>>  >
>>
>>  I have been walking around with this questions for a long time now.
>>
>>  But why don't we use upstream artwork and use the slim login manager?
>>
>>  I believe this is not against the new xubuntu mission/vision is it?
>>
>>  fluxbuntu is using it, why don't we work together with there artwork?
>>
>>  Every xubuntu release there is a lot of time and discussion about the
>>  artwork..
>>
>>  http://slim.berlios.de/
>>  http://wiki.fluxbuntu.org/index.php?title=Explore
>>  http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials
>>  http://art.gnome.org/backgrounds/
>>
>>  Kind regards,
>>
>>  Jelle
>>
 > If I am not mistaken, we want each xubuntu release to be a unique
 > visual experience rather than just a generic piece of look and feel.
 >
 > jmak

We can use different upstream artwork every release. As long as the 
packaging process is done good and makes backward compatibility possible.

We could spent more efforts on creating better artwork in the form of 
consistent tango style icons for all applications, combined with valid 
.desktop files and svg and png based artwork. Also some HIG improvements 
in the naming of applications will be a good proses.

Or is this not a thing we want to focus on?

Kind regards,

Jelle

PS jmak please do not top post or do you have something against bottom 
posting please share your arguments. I really appreciate bottom posting 
it allows me to follow the communication of everybody in a organised matter.



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Re: New gdm configuration for testing

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Following Jari's idea we have a different concept of the gdm. I split
> the original artwork into two graphics, a logo and a login box. Please
> test this version to see that this solves the login input scaling
> problem.
> 
> Download the graphics and the modified Xubuntu.xml files from here.
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Hardy
> 
> 
> Now, you need three graphics, a background, which is the same as the
> wallpaper, the logo.png and the box.png. Backup your previous
> Xubuntu.xml file and drop all the above files into the
> /usr/share/gdm/themes/xubuntu directory to see the result.
> 
> jmak
> 

I have been walking around with this questions for a long time now.

But why don't we use upstream artwork and use the slim login manager?

I believe this is not against the new xubuntu mission/vision is it?

fluxbuntu is using it, why don't we work together with there artwork?

Every xubuntu release there is a lot of time and discussion about the 
artwork..

http://slim.berlios.de/
http://wiki.fluxbuntu.org/index.php?title=Explore
http://live.gnome.org/GnomeArt/Tutorials
http://art.gnome.org/backgrounds/

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: Fwd: Cody Somerville (cody-somerville) to become a MOTU

[Jelle de Jong]

Cody A.W. Somerville wrote:
> Hey,
> 
>  I just wanted to share this with you all :). If you'd like to start 
> learning how to package, I can now sponsor your uploads which will help 
> make the process faster. I'm willing to accept a few Xubuntu enthusiasts 
> via the Ubuntu Mentoring program.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cody

I will contact you the next 6 months, i am working on a new thunar 
plugin and a hole load of system scripts.

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Jelle


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Re: Invitation to xubuntu-dev accepted by cody-somerville

[Jelle de Jong]

Cody A.W. Somerville wrote:
> Currently, the Xubuntu-dev team is restricted to members who should be 
> able to make changes to the Xubuntu seeds. A side effect is that it also 
> helps identify individuals who specifically contribute and lead in the 
> area of development. Currently I am the only members but as other 
> individuals in our community get seriously involved in the packaging and 
> development of Xubuntu, the team will grow. The xubuntu-team, a more 
> general purpose leadership group, also contains members who contribute 
> by packaging but to a lesser extent.
> 
> I hope this answers your question.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cody
> 
> On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 9:42 PM, Jelle de Jong 
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> 
> Xubuntu Team wrote:
>  > Hello Xubuntu Developers,
>  >
>  > Cody A.W. Somerville (cody-somerville) has accepted the invitation to
>  > make Xubuntu Developers (xubuntu-dev) a member of Xubuntu Team
> (xubuntu-
>  > team).
>  > <https://edge.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team
> <https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Exubuntu-team>>
>  >
> Wat does it take to get accepted to the xubuntu-dev team, i cant see any
> join options?
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jelle

Hi Cody,

This sounds fine for me, i hope to have some packages ready for the next 
release, and go through the process of getting into xubuntu-dev. On this 
moment i am working on two new software systems.

Just to make sure the rest of the community doest get upset, I strongly 
advice you to put the hole process of xubuntu-dev and the surrounding 
issues on a good wiki page. This will create more hard needed 
transparency in the xubuntu community. (I read your post on ubuntu-devel)

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: Invitation to xubuntu-dev accepted by cody-somerville

[Jelle de Jong]

Xubuntu Team wrote:
> Hello Xubuntu Developers,
> 
> Cody A.W. Somerville (cody-somerville) has accepted the invitation to
> make Xubuntu Developers (xubuntu-dev) a member of Xubuntu Team (xubuntu-
> team).
> 
> 
Wat does it take to get accepted to the xubuntu-dev team, i cant see any 
join options?

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: Announcement: Xubuntu Meeting, March 26th @ 7:00pm UTC

[Jelle de Jong]

Jonathan Carter (highvoltage) wrote:
> Hi Cody
> 
> Cody A.W. Somerville wrote:
>>  I encourage everyone with an interest in the Xubuntu project to come 
>> and participate. Although we may not be able to arrive at 100% consensus 
>> (something we all know is very difficult to come by), we will be able to 
>> finally bring some tough questions that have plagued Xubuntu for 
>> sometime to a close. If you're a MOTU-hopeful, MOTU, or core-dev who has 
>> been thinking about contributing to the Xubuntu project, now is an 
>> excellent time to do so. If you're one of the frustrated parties, I hope 
>> you you're able to make the meeting - I'd like to take a shot at 
>> addressing your issues.
> 
> I've been meaning to increase my Xubuntu participation, I think now 
> might be a good time. I'll be at the meeting.
> 
Depending on the mission and vision we are going to create for xubuntu, 
i will also increase my participation.

One request, please sent an other mail to the list one our before the 
irc meeting starts :-p

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Jelle

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Re: Artwork testing

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> We have a login box scaling problem. I ask everyone on the list to
> help pinpoint the source of the glitch. Please install the login
> background graphic, the login box and the Xubuntu.xml file to see any
> misbehavior. On my computer, the login box works perfectly well but on
> others it wont scale.
> 
> The installation directory is: /usr/share/gdm/themes/xubuntu
> 
> Get the artworks from here:
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Xubuntu/Hardy
> 
> And report any problem.
> 
> Thanks,
> jmak
> 

Hi Jmak,

Can you enlighten me with all the differences between the xfce icons 
theme requirements/techniques and the gnome icon theme system?  Is there 
something special about the xfce icons?

http://art.gnome.org/themes/icon/
http://www.xfce-look.org/index.php?xcontentmode=430

Kind regards,

Jelle


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fosdem 2008

[Jelle de Jong]

Hi all,

For everybody that want to meet me and talk about xubunu development, go 
  to the fedora stand and ask for hans and jelle de jong.

I be there in a few hours,

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: request for help so I can help Jerome and Lionel with packaging

[Jelle de Jong]

> 
> On Feb 2, 2008 4:12 PM, Jelle de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> 
>  > On Feb 2, 2008 7:13 PM, Jelle de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>  > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
>  >
>  > Hi Jani,
>  >
>  > I always see a lot of discussion and little real work. I
> would like to
>  > contribute in the real development of xfce packages.
>  >
>  > Would you be willing to give me weekly tasks so I can mature
> in my
>  > packaging techniques? You may start anytime you want?
>  >
>  > Also an real step by step example how you created an official
> xfce
>  > package would be really appreciated.
>  >
>  > Kind regards,
>  >
>  > Jelle
>  > Jani Monoses wrote:
>  > Hello Jelle,
>  >
>  > I think the best way is to hang out in the motu irc channel. I am
> not up
>  > to date as to what needs to be done packaging wise,
>  > Lionel and Jerome surely know more.
>  >
>  > Jani
> 
> Seems that I have misinformed myself, i thought you were still one of
> the main packagers of xfce.
> 
> I will readdress my mail to Jerome and Lionel :-D
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jelle
Cody A.W. Somerville wrote:
> Jerome and Lionel aren't the only ones doing packaging...
> 
> - Cody

Sorry if I missed some people, of course i understand there are a lot 
more people contributing. However the only info i can find about how the 
xubuntu project is currently organized is very limited:

https://launchpad.net/xfce-project
https://code.launchpad.net/~xubuntu-team

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: request for help so I can help Jerome and Lionel with packaging

[Jelle de Jong]

  > On Feb 2, 2008 7:13 PM, Jelle de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> 
> Hi Jani,
> 
> I always see a lot of discussion and little real work. I would like to
> contribute in the real development of xfce packages.
> 
> Would you be willing to give me weekly tasks so I can mature in my
> packaging techniques? You may start anytime you want?
> 
> Also an real step by step example how you created an official xfce
> package would be really appreciated.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jelle
> Jani Monoses wrote:
> Hello Jelle,
> 
> I think the best way is to hang out in the motu irc channel. I am not up 
> to date as to what needs to be done packaging wise,
> Lionel and Jerome surely know more.
> 
> Jani

Seems that I have misinformed myself, i thought you were still one of 
the main packagers of xfce.

I will readdress my mail to Jerome and Lionel :-D

Kind regards,

Jelle



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request for help so I can help jani with packaging

[Jelle de Jong]

Hi Jani,

I always see a lot of discussion and little real work. I would like to 
contribute in the real development of xfce packages.

Would you be willing to give me weekly tasks so I can mature in my 
packaging techniques? You may start anytime you want?

Also an real step by step example how you created an official xfce 
package would be really appreciated.

Kind regards,

Jelle



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Re: PA3613U-1MPC Wireless Drivers

[Jelle de Jong]

Brian A wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> I am sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, but I was wondering 
> if someone might be able to incorporate the drivers for the atheros  
> pa3613u-1mpc wireless card into Hardy. This card is a ar5bxb63 that has
> been modified by toshiba. I am trying to help a friend of mine get the 
> wireless card on his Toshiba Satelite a215-s4697, but haven't had any 
> luck finding information on it. The only drivers available are for 
> windows vista, and therefore ndiswrapper won't work for it.
> 
> Thanks,
> Brian
> 
> To err is human, but to really foul things up requires a computer.
> Microsoft gives you Gates and windows - Linux gives you the whole house. 
> been
> 

Try the madwifi-tools if it is a new card you can better compile the 
latest release.

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: Changing the command executed when pressing Suspend button

[Jelle de Jong]

Giuseppe Torelli wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I installed pm-utils so I want the system to execute "sudo pm-suspend"
> instead of the command which is executed now when pressing the Suspend
> button. Can someone tell me which file shall I edit to have sudo pm-suspend
> executed? I already asked on xfce-dev list and they told me to ask here.
> 
> Thanks
> 
Have you looked at the ACPI scripts?

Best regards,

Jelle

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Re: Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Low Resource Showoff - 2007-11-14

[Jelle de Jong]

Jelle de Jong wrote:
> Eero Tamminen wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wednesday 14 November 2007, Jelle de Jong wrote:
>>> This message contains the following attachment(s):
>>> Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Low Resource Showoff - 2007-11-14.png (request
>>> due to size limits)
>>>
>>> Hello al,
>>>
>>> I just wanted everybody to see what a performance tweaked version of
>>> Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon can look like. There are no changes made to the
>>> kernel. So it is possible to tweak it even more.
>>>
>>> http://imagebin.ca/view/8uPq8MTU.html
>>> http://imagebin.ca/download/8uPq8MTU.png
>> Erm.  It shows XFCE terminal taking 99MB of virtual memory of which 20MB is
>> resident.  On my (Feisty) Kubuntu desktop "konsole" takes currently 32MB
>> virtual memory of which 14MB is resident.  I'd say XFCE terminal needs a bit
>> of attention from Valgrind memcheck and massif tools...
>>
>> It also seems that you don't have a session manager.  If you use gdm as your
>> session manager, by setting it to do autologin, you save quite a bit of
>> memory because it's its UI that uses most of RAM.  Gdm configuring doesn't
>> need any init scripts hacking and with autologin you still get the normal
>> Gdm login screen when you log out (instead of e.g. shutdown).
>>
>>
>>  - Eero
> 
> Yes, xfce4-terminal is a real memory eater, also libvte9 makes
> gnome-pty-helper tread every time a terminal is opened this is also not
> very nice. Not much I can do about this problem, because I seem to be
> the only person caring about it.
> 
> I indeed don't use gdm but compiled a automatic login command. I like it
> that way. It's for an one user workstation, so its ok for me.
> 
> Due to the memory model of Linux and its caching system, it's a bit
> tricky to connect memory use with performance. However it does say
> something about the needed memory for an application to be able to run.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jelle
> 

http://filebin.ca/wwbqtw/xfce4-terminal-valgrid.txt.zip



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Re: Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Low Resource Showoff - 2007-11-14

[Jelle de Jong]

Eero Tamminen wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> On Wednesday 14 November 2007, Jelle de Jong wrote:
>> This message contains the following attachment(s):
>> Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Low Resource Showoff - 2007-11-14.png (request
>> due to size limits)
>>
>> Hello al,
>>
>> I just wanted everybody to see what a performance tweaked version of
>> Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon can look like. There are no changes made to the
>> kernel. So it is possible to tweak it even more.
>>
>> http://imagebin.ca/view/8uPq8MTU.html
>> http://imagebin.ca/download/8uPq8MTU.png
> 
> Erm.  It shows XFCE terminal taking 99MB of virtual memory of which 20MB is
> resident.  On my (Feisty) Kubuntu desktop "konsole" takes currently 32MB
> virtual memory of which 14MB is resident.  I'd say XFCE terminal needs a bit
> of attention from Valgrind memcheck and massif tools...
> 
> It also seems that you don't have a session manager.  If you use gdm as your
> session manager, by setting it to do autologin, you save quite a bit of
> memory because it's its UI that uses most of RAM.  Gdm configuring doesn't
> need any init scripts hacking and with autologin you still get the normal
> Gdm login screen when you log out (instead of e.g. shutdown).
> 
> 
>   - Eero

Yes, xfce4-terminal is a real memory eater, also libvte9 makes
gnome-pty-helper tread every time a terminal is opened this is also not
very nice. Not much I can do about this problem, because I seem to be
the only person caring about it.

I indeed don't use gdm but compiled a automatic login command. I like it
that way. It's for an one user workstation, so its ok for me.

Due to the memory model of Linux and its caching system, it's a bit
tricky to connect memory use with performance. However it does say
something about the needed memory for an application to be able to run.

Kind regards,

Jelle



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Re: Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Low Resource Showoff - 2007-11-14

[Jelle de Jong]

Adi Roiban wrote:
> On 14/11/2007, Jelle de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> It is a long list of tweaks, You have to be a more experienced Linux
>> users, and its not without risks if you don't know what your doing.
>>
>> I do document my steps relative good, I think I will make good quality
>> documentation for the public after the Hardy release. I will wait this
>> long because of my Quality Assurance system. I don't publish if the
>> quality is not yet sufficient.
>>
>> I thought the screen shot would be very nice for the xubuntu website,
>> Vincent how do you think about this :-D
>>
>> Kind regards,
>>
>> Jelle
>>
> This is ridiculous!!!
> If you are not going to share this information with us  please don't
> post such screenshots. Your action and effort will be misunderstood
> and people will doubt their authenticity.
> 
> Thanks!

Sorry Abi, if I offended you. I thought it would just be a nice
screenshot of what was possible with xbuntu. I had the idea inmint of
screenshot similair of the one found on this following website:
http://www.xfce.org/about/screenshots

On that website there are also no explanations on how things were done.

And I did not say I will not share the information, I just don't have
the time on this moment to finishes all the documentation.

I had no idea this would turn into such promotion... It was just a
positive thing that turned in something negative, sorry for all this,
lets leave it wit this.

Kind regards,

Jelle


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Re: Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Low Resource Showoff - 2007-11-14

[Jelle de Jong]

Cody A.W. Somerville wrote:
> I think it is riddicules that you've posted these screenshots to this
> mailing list without providing any technical information. Please do not
> make posts to this mailing list that have no technical merit as I don't
> apprecaite spam in my mailbox that is tagged for me to read.
>  
> Thank you,
>  
> Cody A.W. Somerville

Sorry Cody,

I will not happen again.

My excuse to everybody, for my emails about the screenshot.

Kind regard,

Jelle

>  
> On Nov 15, 2007 7:32 AM, Jim Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 15, 2007 5:15 AM, Jelle de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> You are right Jim, better not upload the picture on the website
> then.
> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jelle
> 
> 
> Keep us posted on how things go, Jelle.  :)  Thanks.
> 


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Re: Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Low Resource Showoff - 2007-11-14

[Jelle de Jong]

Jim Campbell wrote:
> Well, if we aren't going to give instructions about how to set it up
> right away . . .   do you think we should wait to publicize it until we
> have everything documented and tested?  what good would it do someone to
> see that it is somehow possible to set up a minimal xubuntu install w/o
> showing them how to do it themselves?  (of course they _could_ try to
> figure things out themselves - it is open source software, but . . . )
> 
> i think that having the directions included with the promo materials
> would be better.  otherwise, we're just kind of teasing people.
> 
> On Nov 14, 2007 4:15 PM, Jelle de Jong < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> 
>     Vincent wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 14/11/2007, *Jelle de Jong* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
> >
> >
> > I thought the screen shot would be very nice for the xubuntu
> website,
> > Vincent how do you think about this :-D
> >
> >
> > Hmm... What page exactly were you thinking of?
> 
> Some user screenshot section?
> 
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Jelle
> >
> > --
> > Vincent

You are right Jim, better not upload the picture on the website then.

Kind regards,

Jelle


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Re: Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Low Resource Showoff - 2007-11-14

[Jelle de Jong]

Vincent wrote:
> 
> 
> On 14/11/2007, *Jelle de Jong* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> 
> 
> I thought the screen shot would be very nice for the xubuntu website,
> Vincent how do you think about this :-D
> 
> 
> Hmm... What page exactly were you thinking of?

Some user screenshot section?

> 
> Kind regards,
> 
> Jelle
> 
> -- 
> Vincent
> 


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Re: Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Low Resource Showoff - 2007-11-14

[Jelle de Jong]

Ghostvirus wrote:
> I'm interested in how you accomplished this!
> 
> On Nov 14, 2007 8:05 AM, Jelle de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> 
> This message contains the following attachment(s):
> Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Low Resource Showoff - 2007-11-14.png (request
> due to size limits)
> 
> Hello al,
> 
> I just wanted everybody to see what a performance tweaked version of
> Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon can look like. There are no changes made to the
> kernel. So it is possible to tweak it even more.
> 
> http://imagebin.ca/view/8uPq8MTU.html
> <http://imagebin.ca/view/8uPq8MTU.html>
> http://imagebin.ca/download/8uPq8MTU.png
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Jelle

It is a long list of tweaks, You have to be a more experienced Linux
users, and its not without risks if you don't know what your doing.

I do document my steps relative good, I think I will make good quality
documentation for the public after the Hardy release. I will wait this
long because of my Quality Assurance system. I don't publish if the
quality is not yet sufficient.

I thought the screen shot would be very nice for the xubuntu website,
Vincent how do you think about this :-D

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Low Resource Showoff - 2007-11-14

[Jelle de Jong]

This message contains the following attachment(s):
Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Low Resource Showoff - 2007-11-14.png (request
due to size limits)

Hello al,

I just wanted everybody to see what a performance tweaked version of
Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon can look like. There are no changes made to the
kernel. So it is possible to tweak it even more.

http://imagebin.ca/view/8uPq8MTU.html
http://imagebin.ca/download/8uPq8MTU.png

Best regards,

Jelle


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Re: New panel size

[Jelle de Jong]

Diego Ongaro wrote:
> On 11/8/07, Radomir Dopieralski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Thu, Nov 08, 2007 at 06:34:05PM +0100:
>>
>> This is a little complicated.
>>
>> First of all, the Tango icons (it's not a name of any particular icon set,
>> but a standard, by the way) come in these sizes (taken from
>> ):
>>
>> * 16×16 (these are used in menus)
>> * 22×22
>> * 24×24 (these are generated from the 22×22 ones)
>> * 32×32 (these are optional, not always available)
>> * 48×48
>> * scalable
>>
>> I think we should aim to use the 22×22 ones in the panels, but it's not
>> that simple. The panel itself will add a border -- I think its size
>> depends on the actual gtk theme being used.
>>
>> Then various panel plugins will add further margins and borders, depending
>> on how the widgets are packed in the actual plugin, and also how the
>> particular plugin handles the icon and text sizes.
>>
>> In particular, the clock plugins will not shrink below the default system
>> font size, effectively making the panel size stay while (some of) the
>> icons shrink.
>>
>> The 'quit/lock' plugin is a constant offender considering the panel size.
>>
>> The launcher, pager, systray, system and netwok monitor and clipman
>> plugins seem to behave pretty well.
>>
>> Obviously the sane solution would be to patch the plugins to allow
>> resizing of the panel no matter what icons and what system font size is
>> used. Is it possible?
>>
> 
> In trunk (upstream), the panel size is fixed, and plugins are forced
> to deal with whatever size they are given. Based on that, I would
> advise against putting much effort into solving the root of the
> problem for 4.4, and instead find a reasonable compromise, until 4.6
> is out.
> 

I totally agree with this, I will go even further, There should not be
made any changes in XFCE, except some basic artwork, All changes must be
made upstream. Communicate with the developers and work with them.

Best regards,

Jelle

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Re: New panel size

[Jelle de Jong]

Vincent wrote:
> 
> 
> On Nov 8, 2007 9:10 PM, Jelle de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> 
> Vincent wrote:
> >
> >
> > On Nov 8, 2007 6:42 PM, Cody A.W. Somerville
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
> >
> > It seems to me that increasing the panel size does not in fact
> > increase the size of the panels. In instead increases the size of
> > the icons and when the icons reach a critical mass, the panel
> > resizes to accomedate. This is why I've increased the top panel to
> > 38 and the bottom panel to 24. I feel that the top panel needs
> to be
> > larger than the bottom panel due to the widgets used there (it
> looks
> > disgusting when it is smaller - especially the applications menu
> > because the icon we use is png and does not scale well).
> >
> >
> > Not that you mention it - we should have a .svg there. Shouldn't
> be too
> > hard to make, both the Ubuntu logo as Xfce's mouse (I believe) can be
> > obtained as .svg .
> >
> > By the way, could anyone explain the problem with the icons and the
> > smaller panels? As said, I've set up my panels smaller but I see no
> > problem with the icons.
> >
> > --
> > Vincent
> >
> 
> The examples with a clear fuzzy and sharp
> 
> 32 pix vs 28 pix (24 pix is no go)
> http://imagebin.ca/view/EYdb4gm.html
> http://imagebin.ca/view/g0w1IV.html
> 
> 
> Hmm... Yeah, if I look closely I see the Pidgin icon is a bit blurred.
> It might be me though, but I wouldn't notice it myself.
> 
> <http://imagebin.ca/view/g0w1IV.html>Best regards,

I changed the pannels by right clicking a panel>Customize Panel>Slidebar
to left or right.

Vincent, look at all the other icons (upper left), if you can't see the
difference I advice you to buy a new monitor and/or visit a optician :-D

Best regards,

Jelle


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Re: New panel size

[Jelle de Jong]

Vincent wrote:
> 
> 
> On Nov 8, 2007 6:42 PM, Cody A.W. Somerville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> 
> It seems to me that increasing the panel size does not in fact
> increase the size of the panels. In instead increases the size of
> the icons and when the icons reach a critical mass, the panel
> resizes to accomedate. This is why I've increased the top panel to
> 38 and the bottom panel to 24. I feel that the top panel needs to be
> larger than the bottom panel due to the widgets used there (it looks
> disgusting when it is smaller - especially the applications menu
> because the icon we use is png and does not scale well).
> 
> 
> Not that you mention it - we should have a .svg there. Shouldn't be too
> hard to make, both the Ubuntu logo as Xfce's mouse (I believe) can be
> obtained as .svg .
> 
> By the way, could anyone explain the problem with the icons and the
> smaller panels? As said, I've set up my panels smaller but I see no
> problem with the icons.
> 
> -- 
> Vincent
> 

The examples with a clear fuzzy and sharp

32 pix vs 28 pix (24 pix is no go)
http://imagebin.ca/view/EYdb4gm.html
http://imagebin.ca/view/g0w1IV.html

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Jelle


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Re: New panel size

[Jelle de Jong]

Vincent wrote:
> Hi list,
> 
> So, I think about everybody agrees Xubuntu's panels can be grealy
> decreased in size. I thought I'd turn it into a separate thread to avoid
> confusion.
> 
> So: is there still anyone who thinks the panels should keep their
> current size, and if not, what should the new width be?
> 
> -- 
> Vincent
> 

After reading al these discussions about the idea to change the panel
size, to something other then 32 pixels. I wanted to give my 2 cent.

I have one BIG problem with this: The xfce panel and icons behave a bit
strange when it comes to decreasing the size:

The icons become very small and fuzzy when < 32 pixels. There is a to
big difference with 32 pixels and <32 pixels. It is visually very
unattractive to look at.

Until all *.desktop files get icons in the *.svg format, and the panel
gets a new system of calculation the space for these svg icons I vote
strongly against making the panel smaller then 32 pixels.

Best regards,

Jelle

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Re: Some thoughts about xubuntu hardy

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> Hello all,
> 
> It is time again to get some brainstorming about the next xubuntu
> release, as it relates to graphic issues. Probably, some of you
> already know that the ubuntu people are planning RADICAL changes
> in ubuntu's look and feel, which involves as they said "radically
> change the artwork and the theming behind the entire desktop from boot
> all the way through to logout." The art mailing list has become very
> busy and interesting ideas are flying around once again; it seems, the
> changes will affect theming and the current color scheme; they want to
> implement new theming engine (contemplating using murrina, hey, we are
> ahead of them), a brand new set of icons, and a completely redesigned
> boot splash.
> 
> In this spirit of radicalness let me propose a few ideas relating to
> xubuntu next release. The most radical among these  would be the
> suggestion of changing the current gnome layout back to the original
> xfce layout. This is why. The two panels layout is a usability
> disaster for older machines with small monitor size. It doesn't
> optimize but rather restricts the availability of valuable
> screen-space. The two oversized panels simply takes up too much
> precious screen estate that users of older computers would like to
> utilize to the fullest. Furthermore, copying the gnome layout prevents
> xubuntu to develop a healthy personality, which is a fundamental
> requirement for a brand. It is like in real life, you are original
> when you are yourself, as soon as you try to imitate someone else you
> become a fake. In addition, the traditional layout is much more
> pleasing, but this is a matter of preference. It is my experience that
> new users, when they have choices, always prefer the traditional
> layout to the gnome mimic.
> 
> Here is a mockup; it shows the way, I envision the visual appearance
> of our next release .
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Gutsy/Incoming
> 
> Notice the themed panel. It is medium gray, from the usability point
> of view make more sense than using the contrasty white. It provides a
> more appropriate background for the application launchers.
> 
> As the ubuntu people said, Hardy would be all about polish and usability.
> 
> In the spirit of the above, I am proposing the following items to be
> considered for xubuntu Hardy. Some of the proposals require subtle
> fine-tunings but they are necessary to develop a consistent and
> polished look and feel.
> 
> The list.
> 
> 1) Let's go back to the original xfce panel layout.
> 2) Let's theme the panel
> 3) Add new icon theme-NuoveXT, the one we already agreed upon during
> feisty phase.
> 4) Take out the icon label backgrounds. They are distracting and are
> usability anomalies. And ugly too.
> 5) New gdm.
> 6) New usplash--let see how is the new usplash re-write program will
> affect the artworks' parameters.
> 7) New wallpaper
> 8) Keep the current murrina theme for the time being; however, if the
> ubuntu people come up with better ones we might consider switching.
> Look at some of the ubuntu proposals below, they are really great.
> 9) Customize the Gimp splash screen like ubuntu developers are
> planning. I already suggested this a couple of releases ago but then
> it was ignored. I still have the artwork, which can be implemented
> now.
> 
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/382776017/
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/382776020/in/photostream/
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> jmak

Hello Jmak,

First i want to say i realy appreciate the work you are doing, some of
the changes in gusty artwork were very nice, and i can only hoop they
get improving.

However I have one really BIG issue. I want backward compatibility for
Xubuntu artwork. What does this mean: If somebody installs Xubuntu he
must be able to select the Xubuntu artwork of the previous release. This
will mean that If you make any changes to the current artwork settings.
I should be made in a way it can be easily revert back. So this also
means there must come another package for the previous artwork or
enhance the current artwork package to include previous released artwork.

I support most of your ideas here, but I will not do this without a
backward compatibility feature.

Best regards,

Jelle









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new xubuntu scripts from tuxcrafter

[Jelle de Jong]

Hello everybody,

With the last gusty release a lot of xfce things changed so I remade
some of my support scripts and thought they would be nice for the
xubuntu website xbuntuguide etecetra.

I also created a compleet awsom Thunar script installer system for a big
script collection I created in the last cople of years. I am know going
to look for a MOTU mentor to learn how to package it for xubuntu.

Feedback is always welcome!

Best regards,

Jelle

Setting up xfce xft font rendering settings
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=589593

HOW TO: Setting up xorg LCD 96 DPI native monitor settings
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=589574

HOW TO: Installation of lib-xine based multimedia codecs
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=589655

# step 17: Setting up xfce desktop menu settings
cp /home/$USER/.config/xfce4/desktop/menu.xml
/home/$USER/.config/xfce4/desktop/menu.xml.backup
sed  -i -e '\%%d'
/home/$USER/.config/xfce4/desktop/menu.xml
sed  -i -e '\%%d'
/home/$USER/.config/xfce4/desktop/menu.xml

# step 23: Setting up xfce workspaces settings
# xfce-setting-show workspaces
cp $HOME/.config/xfce4/mcs_settings/workspaces.xml
$HOME/.config/xfce4/mcs_settings/workspaces.xml.backup
start='http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=485646

HOW TO: Installation of the SCR335 smartcard reader
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=589625

HOW TO: Installation of hellanzb NZB usenet downloader
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=589618

HOW TO: Installation of a complete vmware server setup
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=589638

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Re: gutsy: openoffice 2.3, icones images

[Jelle de Jong]

Mihamina (R12y) Rakotomandimby wrote:
> Hi,
> In my openoffice, I just have the buttons, not the images on these.
> I guess it is because I did not install enough gnome-thing! but which 
> one? I dont want to install all gnome...
> 

Search for my emails on this list and you will find your answers.

There is a bug in openoffice-gtk, you have to reselect the human icon
theme and icon size in openoffice.

Best regards,

Jelle

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Re: Gutsy with three terminals?

[Jelle de Jong]

Vincent wrote:
> Well, a moment ago I tried to run Xubuntu Gutsy Tribe 5. As my wireless
> card would not be detected I rebooted soon enough (it was running from
> my USB drive) but I noticed that there are the items Xterm and UXterm
> (or something like that) in the panel. This means that there are three
> different menu entries to launch a terminal window, is that correct?
> 
> -- 
> Vincent
> 

Yes, this is correct, it is already fixed in the latest daily release.

Best regards,

Jelle


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Re: some details/work for gutsy xubuntu

[Jelle de Jong]

Jani Monoses wrote:
>> How do you guys all feel about this?
> 
> Jelle, is there anything in the above tasks you could personally help with :) 
> ?
> 
> Jani

In the upcoming Hardy Heron I will try to find some time, to get
familiar with the xubuntu iso creating process so I can directly fix
some issues. For know with a full time job and two educations and a lot
of linux support with research and xubuntu testing. I can't find any
spare time there are only 24H in one day sadly i also have to sleep.

But I agree with you, that it sounds a bit strange. So I try to manage
some some things hopping we can get a nice gutsy release.

Jelle


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Re: configuring firefox/thunderbird fonts?

[Jelle de Jong]

Kristian Rink wrote:
> Folks;
> 
> dealing with both GNOME and XFCE, I recently used to have an issue
> regarding system font size in firefox/thunderbird in GNOME, which, then
> again, "suddenly just disappeared" (have no clue how...). However, I
> don't want to use GNOME everyday, prefer XFCE but it's not really
> enjoyable at the moment: Using Firefox and Thunderbird, I see that
> generally my fonts there are, way larger than those in every other GTK /
> XFCE application. So far, I haven't yet found a reliable, permanent way
> of fixing this, even my userChrome.css seems to be completely ignored...
> Errm... Help / hints / ideas, anyone? :/
> 
> Thanks in advance and bye,
> Kristian
> 

See the attachment,

I have this problem on the middle of my priority list for gutsy fixes,
because I have this problem also on gusty and the fix is easy, but hard
to find.

Best regards,

Jelle
Date: 23-12-2006
Version: 0.4
Autor: Jelle de Jong
Change: 25-12-06

problem different font look between xfce, firefox, openoffice.
Use these commands to compare your new and old settings
xdpyinfo | grep resolution
xrdb -q | grep Xft

xdpyinfo |grep resolution
resolution:95x96 dots per inch

xrdb -q |grep Xft
Xft.antialias:  1
Xft.hinting:1
Xft.hintstyle:  hintfull
Xft.rgba:   rgb



1 - Remove old config file's:
rm ~/.config/xfce4/Xft*

2 - Create new settings:
Menu -> Settings -> User Interface Preferences
Font Rendering:
RECHECK all checkboxen with these settings:
Use anti-aliasing for fonts
Use hinting: Full
Use sub-pixel hinting: RGB

3 - Go to 
mousepad ~/.config/xfce4/Xft.xrdb
And paste in the last line:
Xft.dpi: 96
(always leave a emty line)

Looks now like this:
Xft.antialias: 1
Xft.hinting: 1
Xft.hintstyle: hintfull
Xft.rgba: rgb
Xft.dpi: 96

Save and exit the Xft.xrdb file

4 - Edit xorg
sudo mousepad /etc/X11/xorg.conf
And paste in under Section "Files" (if it’s not there alread):
FontPath "/usr/share/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled"
FontPath "/usr/share/X11/fonts/100dpi"

Looks now like this:
Section "Files"
FontPath"/usr/share/X11/fonts/misc"
FontPath"/usr/share/X11/fonts/cyrillic"
FontPath"/usr/share/X11/fonts/100dpi/:unscaled"
FontPath"/usr/share/X11/fonts/75dpi/:unscaled"
FontPath"/usr/share/X11/fonts/Type1"
FontPath"/usr/share/X11/fonts/100dpi"
FontPath"/usr/share/X11/fonts/75dpi"
FontPath"/usr/share/fonts/X11/misc"
# path to defoma fonts
FontPath"/var/lib/defoma/x-ttcidfont-conf.d/dirs/TrueType"
EndSection

5 - Edit xorg add the DisplaySize property to the Monitor Section
sudo mousepad /etc/X11/xorg.conf
Go to Section "Monitor"
Calculate the wanted DisplaySize:
My resolution is 1440x900
pixelwidth = 1440
pixelheigth = 900
dpi = 96
formula = pixelwidth/dpi*25.4 and pixelheight/dpi*25.4
1440/96*25.4 and 900/96*25.4 =
DisplaySize 381 238.125
Put this line in the Section "Monitor"

Mine now looks like this:
Section "Monitor"
Identifier  "Generic Monitor"
Option  "DPMS"
DisplaySize 381 238.125
Modeline"1440x900" 106.50 1440 1520 1672 1904 900 903 909 934 
-Hsync +Vsync
HorizSync   30-81
VertRefresh 56-75
EndSection

Note that I hava also a Modeline HorizSync VertRefresh in my Monitor section, 
but these are not for this problem they are for my custom resolution. If you 
screen is using the right resolution you can ignore this. It is also outside 
the scope of this how to to go into it.

Save and exit the xorg.conf file

Restart the system.

Tips:
1 - You can also test to use 100 dpi everywere
2 - If openoffice gives you a hard time remove (removes al you openoffice 
settings)
backup openoffice settings:
mv ~/.openoffice.org2  ~/.openoffice.org2.backup
restore openoffice settings:
mv ~/.openoffice.org2.backup ~/.openoffice.org2 
remove open office settings:
rm ~/.openoffice.org2
3 - Use these commands to compare your new and old settings
xdpyinfo | grep resolution
xrdb -q | grep Xft
4 - Remember that everytime you change something in Menu -> Settings -> User 
Interface Preferences you have to repeat step 3 again.

xdpyinfo | grep resolution
xrdb -q | grep Xft
sudo xresprobe via
sudo ddcprobe
gtf 1440 900 60 -x
sudo ddcprobe | egrep '^[cd]*timing:' | sed -e 's/^[cd]*timing: \([^x]*\)x\([^ 
@$]*\).*$/\1x\2/;'
grep -i dpi  /var/log/Xorg.0.log
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some details/work for gutsy xubuntu

[Jelle de Jong]

Jmak can you make/find a nice icon for the /menu/Settings/Autostarted
Applications and sent it to Jani?

Jani can you patch the menu *.desktop file, so it will use a icon for
the Autostarted Applications program?

Cody can you do some small updates to the xubuntu-docs package and the
including Xubuntu Desktop Guide? Would you be willing to add a section
"About XFCE" and place a link with some text to the xfce4-about program
with a screenshot? Also the a similar section to xfhelp would be great?

Jani can you remove the "About XFCE" menu desktop form the xfce4-utils
package, as soon as the xubuntu-docs are updated?

Can we discuses the option for the removal of the Help entry in the
menu? And place an alternative launcher icon in the panel and add the
default homepage for the webbrowser (firefox) to show the index of the
xubuntu-docs?

Jmak, If you can find some extra time, how would you feel about finding
an alternative icon for the Appfinder tool? That would meet he Tango
Icon style, this way it can blend more with the total environment?


If we can all find a bit of time to realise these above points, we can
hit a nice milestone of the first completely matching xbuntu menu, where
all applications have icons that blend in with the tango icon style.
This will create a important positive impression on all the upcoming
xubuntu gusty reviewers!

How do you guys all feel about this?

Best regards,

Jelle





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Re: gnome-screensaver and xfburn

[Jelle de Jong]

Jani Monoses wrote:
> 1) g-s-s's latest release no longer depends on libgnome, only on gvfs so I'll 
> put it in instead of xss
I got one issue/question with this, xscreensaver is used for
screen-locks and re-logins. Will gnome-screen-saver take over this
functionality? If it does not do we still need xscreensaver and I do not
think adding gnome-screen-saver is a good idea Otherwise I will be in
favour.

>  
> 2) Is everyone ok with dropping xfburn from the default install?
Yes please remove it



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gusty - list of bugs, problems and suggestions (part two)

[Jelle de Jong]

List of bugs, problems and suggestions that I gathered while doing test
for the gusty xubuntu release.
Version: 0.1.2j
Date: 28-08-2007

When using the alternate net-install you can't go back to switch the
keyboard layout when you made the wrong choose. Do i report it at
console-setup, debian-installer or kbd-chooser?
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/console-setup/+bug/135118

A brown background is shown right before the blue background is loaded,
this is not very appealing. Maybe we can change the default color to blue?
http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=438939

Mouse over behavior to show the cpu, mem, swap load of the system, in
the System Load Monitor panel plug-in do not work anymore. I found out
the mouse overs do work, however they respond far far to late.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xfce4-netload-plugin/+bug/134461

gxine will not start -> libmozjs.so coannot open shared object: no such
file or directory
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/gxine/+bug/130218

Thunderbird new junk icon appears to soon in compared with the other icons.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-thunderbird/+bug/135120

Root certificate from www.cacert.org is not included in Firefox and
Thunderbird
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/mozilla-thunderbird/+bug/135123

xubuntu start-up screen does not show any progress-bar during start-up
or shutdown.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/xubuntu-artwork/+bug/134183

gusty - openoffice.org-gtk - default settings remove "human" icons and
icon size style
When installed the default icons are screwed up, make sure the "human"
icon style is selected with the small icon size. The behavior also
happens when using the openoffice.org-gtk-gnome package.  The problem
looks simulair to
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/42061
however this bug is set to be fixed month's ago. In the latest gusty
release are still problems.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/135231

gusty - openoffice.org-gtk - icons are to close to the left when using a
gtk style with left a left color bar
In xubuntu gusty with the new style sheet that contains a left black
colored line in all the gtk menu's the icons of openofice.org are to
close to this left menu line compared with to looks of all other native
gtk applications, I can recall also noticing this unwanted behavior of
openoffice 6 months ago. The behavior also happens when using the
openoffice.org-gtk-gnome package.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/openoffice.org/+bug/135230

-- -- -- -- --

gusty-xubuntu-suggestions:

The totally different looks of the windows and user interface is nice
and all but how can a user go back to the default looks of Xubuntu 7.04.
I find backwards compatibility extremely important.

Window snapping does not work, can this be inplemented?

Why not use two workspaces instead of four?

xubuntu screensaver will run by default heavy 3D screen servers, please
use black screen only.

xfce4-terminal scroll-on output, can this be disable by default?

Why display the contains of a window when resizing or moving? Can we
disable this for the default settings?

Gimp start-up screen is very ugly, can we change it to something more
appealing?

Is there no new version of GQview?! Is there no further development?
Maybe change to an active development program.

No new version of Thunar that supports changing the "Date Modified" colum?

Desktop preferences -> behavior -> there are no checked check boxes in
for the "show icons for" however they are being displayed at the
desktop. This is not expected behavior.

remove Fax address book
remove HPLIP Fax Utility
add icon for Process Manager or remove it
add icon for Autostarted Application
rename Mozilla Thunderbird Mial/News to Thunderbird Mail Client
remove About Xfce from the xfce menu
remove Help from the xfce menu

fixed:will be removed: remove xfburn
fixed:will be removed: remove menu entry for XTerm and UXTerm
fixed:gnome-mount added: Mounting a usb-stick from Thunar does not work
any more. Message Failed to execute child process "gnome-mount" (no such
file or directory). However mounting the usb-stick from the command line
with the mount command does work.


gusty-thunderbird-minor-issues:

Thunderbird, when clicking on the upper left bottom icon, a message pop
up that ask to download messages before going offline, when i make the
NO choose the message box hangs and is not responsive for quite a while.


gusty-iso-testing:

It will be great to have one net-install cd that always points to the
most recent stable release of all ubuntu distributions.

When installing Xubuntu with a net-install from usb-stick the grub
system is not installed on the correct hard drive. When removing the
ubs-stick the system will not load grub correctly and the system will
not boot. This can be fixed by changing the grup file manually and
running: sudo grub-install hd0

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Re: List of bugs, problems and suggestions (test report)

[Jelle de Jong]

Jani Monoses wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> thanks, good feedback :)
>  
>> So now the dilemma: I got this bug: when using the alternate net-install
>> you can't not go back to switch the keyboard layout when you made the
>> wrong choose. Do i report it at console-setup, debian-installer or
>> kbd-chooser?
>> https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kbd-chooser/+bug/32940
>>
> not sure, but if you file against the debian-installer it will probably
> be retargeted by soemone who knows the exact package.
I will file an extra report

>> When installing Xubuntu with a net-install from usb-stick the grub
>> system is not installed on the correct hard drive. When removing the
>> ubs-stick the system will not load grub correctly and the system will
>> not boot. This can be fixed by changing the grup file manually and
>> running: sudo grub-install hd0
> file a bug on grub if you think it's at fault. booting from USB stick is 
> probably
> not as well tested as from CD.
I will file a suggestion report

>> A brown background is shown right before the blue background is loaded,
>> this is not very appealing.
> 
> I wonder if xubuntu-default-settings no longer shipd gdm-cdd.conf which 
> overrides
> the background? Lionel?
> 
>> The totally different looks of the windows and user interface is nice
>> and all but how can a user go back to the default looks of Xubuntu 7.04.
>> I find backwards compatibility extremely important.
> 
> Not sure, maybe someone who has played with and knows the name of the themes 
> can help.
This is really an imported thing, I believe art work changes are great
and leave the feeling of active development, But not all changes will be
received with open arms. It is extremely important to easily go back to
previous art works. This probably mean every release will needs it's own
artwork packages!

>> Mouse over behavior to show the cpu, mem, swap load of the system, in
>> the System Load Monitor panel plug-in do not work anymore. I found out
>> the mouse overs do work, however they respond far far to late.
> 
> Indeed the panel plugins are mostly buggy, and we do not have the resources 
> to fix them all.
> Even if not a panel plugin, the gnome-system-monitor that is soon going to be 
> included
> shows these informations.
This is not a panel bugs, but it's a bug in the new artwork. The
response time on the mouseovers are far far far to long. The style need
to be fixed.

>> Mounting a usb-stick from Thunar does not work any more. Message Failed
>> to execute child process "gnome-mount" (no such file or directory).
>> However mounting the usb-stick from the command line with the mount
>> command does work.
>>
> I've just added gnome-mount to xbuuntu-desktop, it used to be dragged in by 
> thunar but because
> of some buildd problems that moved to Recommended: recently. thanks for 
> catching this. In the meantime
> install gnome-mount manually.
>> Root certificate from www.cacert.org is not included in Firefox and
>> Thunderbird
>>
> file this and other bugs you think thunderbird has in LP.
I will file an suggestion report

>> Window snapping does not work
>>
>> xfce4-terminal scroll-on output, can this be disable by default, please
>>
> not sure about these, file bugs?
I will file an suggestion report

>> gxine will not start -> libmozjs.so cannot open shared object: no such
>> file or directory
>>
> ditto.
I will leave this one alone, I use totem-gxine and when the open source
gstreamers codecs are matured I will use totem-gstreamer.

>> Thunderbird, when clicking on the upper left bottom icon, a message pop
>> up that ask to download messages before going off-line, when i make the
>> NO choose the message box hangs and is not responsive for quite a while.
>>
>> Gimp start-up screen is very ugly, can we change it to something more
>> appealing?
> 
> we cannot, if it's ugly it's ubuntu-desktop maintainers/upstream thing,
> the most you can do is file a feature request in LP.
I hope Mark S. Will noticing it and change it, He makes the ubuntu
artwork decisions.

>> Why not use two backspaces instead of four?
>>
> where?
This was a typo I mean > Why not use two workspaces instead of four?

>> xubuntu start-up screen does not show any progress-bar during start-up
>> or shutdown.
>>
> not sure why.
Another artwork problem?

>> xubuntu screen saver will run by default heavy 3D screen servers, please
>> use black screen only.
>>
> I am thinking of switching to gnome-screensaver anyway.
>> remove xfburn
> 
> will probably do.
> 
>> remove Fax address book
>> remove HPLIP Fax Utility
> I was pondering this as well, but it will be a regression from feisty for 
> those with such printers.
> OTOH they take up mamory even if you do not have printers :(

I can understand keeping HPLIB but al those other things? I really
suggest we move them. It looks very unprofessional.

>> remove menu entry for XTerm and UXTerm
>> add icon for Process Manager or remove it
> just removed it :)
Thanks

>> add icon for Autostarted Applic

List of bugs, problems and suggestions (test report)

[Jelle de Jong]

List of bugs, problems and suggestions I gathered while doing test for
the new xubuntu release.
Version: 0.1.1j
Date: 27-08-2007


So now the dilemma: I got this bug: when using the alternate net-install
you can't not go back to switch the keyboard layout when you made the
wrong choose. Do i report it at console-setup, debian-installer or
kbd-chooser?
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/kbd-chooser/+bug/32940

When installing Xubuntu with a net-install from usb-stick the grub
system is not installed on the correct hard drive. When removing the
ubs-stick the system will not load grub correctly and the system will
not boot. This can be fixed by changing the grup file manually and
running: sudo grub-install hd0

A brown background is shown right before the blue background is loaded,
this is not very appealing.

The totally different looks of the windows and user interface is nice
and all but how can a user go back to the default looks of Xubuntu 7.04.
I find backwards compatibility extremely important.

Mouse over behavior to show the cpu, mem, swap load of the system, in
the System Load Monitor panel plug-in do not work anymore. I found out
the mouse overs do work, however they respond far far to late.

Mounting a usb-stick from Thunar does not work any more. Message Failed
to execute child process "gnome-mount" (no such file or directory).
However mounting the usb-stick from the command line with the mount
command does work.

Root certificate from www.cacert.org is not included in Firefox and
Thunderbird

Window snapping does not work

xfce4-terminal scroll-on output, can this be disable by default, please

gxine will not start -> libmozjs.so cannot open shared object: no such
file or directory

Thunderbird, when clicking on the upper left bottom icon, a message pop
up that ask to download messages before going off-line, when i make the
NO choose the message box hangs and is not responsive for quite a while.

Gimp start-up screen is very ugly, can we change it to something more
appealing?

Why not use two backspaces instead of four?

xubuntu start-up screen does not show any progress-bar during start-up
or shutdown.

xubuntu screen saver will run by default heavy 3D screen servers, please
use black screen only.

remove xfburn
remove Fax address book
remove HPLIP Fax Utility
remove menu entry for XTerm and UXTerm
add icon for Process Manager or remove it
add icon for Autostarted Application
rename Mozilla Thunderbird Mial/News to Thunderbird Mail Client
remove About Xfce from the xfce menu
remove Help from the xfce menu

Is there no new version of GQview?! Is there no further development?
Maybe change to an active development program.

No new version of Thunar that supports changing the "Date Modified" colum?

Desktop preferences -> behaviour -> there are no checked check boxes in
for the "show icons for" however they are being displayed at the
desktop. This is not expected behaviour.

Thunderbird new junk icon appears to soon in compared with the other icons.

Why display the contains of a window when resizing or moving? Can we
disable this for the default settings?

It will be great to have one net-install cd that always points to the
most recent stable release of all ubuntu distributions.

Best regards,

Jelle


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cassandra-xfce

[Jelle de Jong]

http://www.linuxmint.com/cassandra-xfce.html
http://www.zenwalk.org/

Just a few links to other distributions that support XFCE. With our
resent discussions on the list about, what is the focus group for
xubuntu. It is important to look around us and take a few steps back, to
see what other people and distributions do. I you install Fedora 7 with
the XFCE desktop you will find interesting chooses too they change nothing.

Just some information,

Kind regards,

Jelle




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Re: Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon - Tribe 4 testing

[Jelle de Jong]

Jim Campbell wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> With the Tribe-4 release of Xubuntu Gutsy Gibbon set for Thursday, we
> are looking for ISO testers to test the Tribe-4 candidate images.  Due
> to a bug with OpenOffice, the images are just being rebuilt now, and
> should be available within a few hours (by about 1900-2000 UTC). 
> 
> For those of you who have recently completed ISO test installations, the
> process will remain the same for this milestone.  (There are a few
> improvements in the works for the next milestone, including the ability
> to subscribe to a particular test, and receive notification of when a
> new test session opens up.)  :-)
> 
> Instructions on how to perform and report a test are included in our
> wiki, https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Testing/Community and the ISO test tracker
> is here:  https://isotesting.stgraber.org/
> 
> As a note, this release does ship with bugs!  :-)  Targeted bugs for the
> Tribe 4 release are being tracked here: 
> https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/+milestone/tribe-4.  It looks like most of
> them have been fixed (yeay!), so if you encounter bugs that aren't being
> targeted for this milestone, please make sure to record them in the ISO
> test tracker. If you are in doubt whether or not a bug is serious,
> please mark it as serious - The release team will change the bug's
> status to "normal" if necessary.
> 
> Of course, if you aren't sure of what to do and need some help, feel
> free to ask a question in #ubuntu-iso on the Freenode IRC network, or
> send a reply to the mailing list.  Thank you for your help!
> 
> Jim
> 

Hi Jim,

Like with the last iso testing of feisty, I gave a full blown report, I
realise now that this was a too much and addressed to much issues,
because almost non of them were fixed.

So this time I will not do it like that. If you want me to test
something just send a message with specific details what you want me to
investigate and test and I am happy to contribute.

Best regards,

Jelle

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Re: Sip

[Jelle de Jong]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Cody thanks for that bit of info, however my main question was do I
> /need/ to have a sip server to run a sip app like ekiga? Or does that
> app or other sip apps house their own servers and you use them?
> 
>  
> 
> *From:* [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *On Behalf Of *Cody A.W.
> Somerville
> *Sent:* Friday, July 20, 2007 11:23 AM
> *To:* Xubuntu Development Discussion
> *Subject:* Re: Sip
> 
>  
> 
> Hi Terry,
> 
>  Please check out the Ubuntu Server team mailing list (ubuntu-server) or
> irc chat room for help (#ubuntu-server on irc.freenode.net
> ) on setting up a SIP server.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Cody A.W. Somerville
> 
> On 7/20/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] * <
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> 
> I know this is probably not the right list to make mention of this,
> however I wanted some input.  If you are using an SIP app (ekiga) you
> have to have a SIP server in place correct?  I have never messed with
> sip as of yet, and want to set something in motion for my Xubuntu-us-ok
> team.  Since I am at my windows slave job today, I am blocked to view
> any research material concerning this during the day.  Since I am
> wanting to try and figure this out before I head home, so once I get
> there I can just implement proper actions without having to research it
> then.
> 
> Any advice, directions, or advice is welcomed.
> 
> Thank You
> 
> Terry Davis

Dear Terry,

You need a sip account only to use ekiga, This account logs into a
remote server (not your server) to connect. This sip account you can buy
at ekiga or other sip selling parties like voipbuster or a dsl adsl
provider etcetera.

You fill in this siop account info in the ekiga settings or other sip
protocol capable software or hardware.

Sometimes you have to set-up nat settings of your network, this is kind
of the downside of the sip protocol.

BTW, I will not answer any of your emails again if you use HTML mails
for normal text messages.

Best regards,

Jelle

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Re: Proposed Application for Xubuntu

[Jelle de Jong]

Vincent wrote:
> 
> 
> On 08/05/07, *Jelle de Jong* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> 
> Vincent wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 08/05/07, *Ronnie Whisler* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> wrote:
> >
> > I have found a couple of applications that should be in
> Xubuntu in my
> > opinion
> >
> > 1st. CatFish - for lightweight file search utility
> > http://www.getdeb.net/category.php?id=24
> > <http://www.getdeb.net/category.php?id=24>
> >
> >
> > Just installed it, quite cool, but it won't use Tracker as a back-end
> > even though the site says it should and I have Tracker installed.
> >
> > 2nd. gmusicbrowser - for lightweight music player
> >
> >
> > Quite difficult to comprehend.
> >
> > Though I did not find Exaile difficult to use, but I suppose it
> can be
> > difficult if you just want to play single files.
> >
> > 3rd. get rid of gxine and go with mplayer with optimal settings
> > (gmusicbrowser can use mplayer as its backend) also only
> player that
> > plays apples movie trailers.
> >
> >
> > Discussed a lot already, see Adam's mail.
> >
> > 4. grip - for lightweight cd player & ripper
> >
> >
> > Don't know it, but if it really has that many Gnome dependencies
> then I
> > suppose it's not an option.
> >
> > 5. hacburn - for lightweight cd burning (since xfburn doesnt
> work for
> > most things)
> >
> >
> > Don't know it either.
> >
> > 6. claw-mail - for lightweight email client (with a couple
> plugins and
> > the tango theme installed)
> >
> >
> > See Adam's email.
> >
> > these are just some
> >
> > i know i can think of more but i'm tired
> >
> > think them over test them whatever
> >
> > --
> > xubuntu-devel mailing list
> > xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> <mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>
> <mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> <mailto:xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com>>
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
> >
> >
> > Jani, you're right, I should be contributing more. I can't do it on a
> > regular basis, but what could I do if I'd learn how to package
> things? I
> > still want to learn that someday.
> >
> > --
> > Vincent
> >
> I also agree with Jani and Harold, I especially like to see patches for
> apps used in ubuntu and removed there gnome dependencies if possible.
> 
> 
> What skills do you need to be able to do this? Would it be possible to
> learn this quickly, or do you need to know the programming language that
> program is written in and then dive into the source code?

You need to know a lot about GTK widgets, and have to dive in the source
code of the program to port functionality of gnome libs to gtk libs. You
really need to have the fellow developers of the program helping on this
to change the total program.

Jelle


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Re: Proposed Application for Xubuntu

[Jelle de Jong]

Vincent wrote:
> 
> 
> On 08/05/07, *Ronnie Whisler* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> 
> I have found a couple of applications that should be in Xubuntu in my
> opinion
> 
> 1st. CatFish - for lightweight file search utility
> http://www.getdeb.net/category.php?id=24
> 
> 
> 
> Just installed it, quite cool, but it won't use Tracker as a back-end
> even though the site says it should and I have Tracker installed.
> 
> 2nd. gmusicbrowser - for lightweight music player
> 
> 
> Quite difficult to comprehend.
> 
> Though I did not find Exaile difficult to use, but I suppose it can be
> difficult if you just want to play single files.
> 
> 3rd. get rid of gxine and go with mplayer with optimal settings
> (gmusicbrowser can use mplayer as its backend) also only player that
> plays apples movie trailers.
> 
> 
> Discussed a lot already, see Adam's mail.
> 
> 4. grip - for lightweight cd player & ripper
> 
> 
> Don't know it, but if it really has that many Gnome dependencies then I
> suppose it's not an option.
> 
> 5. hacburn - for lightweight cd burning (since xfburn doesnt work for
> most things)
> 
> 
> Don't know it either.
> 
> 6. claw-mail - for lightweight email client (with a couple plugins and
> the tango theme installed)
> 
> 
> See Adam's email.
> 
> these are just some
> 
> i know i can think of more but i'm tired
> 
> think them over test them whatever
> 
> --
> xubuntu-devel mailing list
> xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
> 
> 
> Jani, you're right, I should be contributing more. I can't do it on a
> regular basis, but what could I do if I'd learn how to package things? I
> still want to learn that someday.
> 
> -- 
> Vincent
> 
I also agree with Jani and Harold, I especially like to see patches for
apps used in ubuntu and removed there gnome dependencies if possible.

Please don't forget that the audiences we are trying to reach with the
ubuntu distributions are not geeks, but normal and beginning computer
users. Maybe some apps are lighter and can in theory do the job, but if
it is not very user friendly it is not a good chose for xubunutu. There
are enough xfce light weight distributions that can also be used. Again,
the ubuntu family aims on usability, and xubuntu aims at the same thing
only with gtk low resource apps.

Jelle


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Re: alternate cd freeze at 85%

[Jelle de Jong]

Adam Miller wrote:
> It has recently been brought up in the IRC channels that the alternate
> cd image will freeze for about 45 minutes at 85% completion when used to
> install on a machine that has both a SATA and an ATA hard drive
> installed. It appears to be an Ubuntu issue because I have heard reports
> of it happening with the alternate cd of each derivative. Just thought I
> would throw out an email and ask if we should look into a fix for this
> or if I should just mention on xubuntu.org  that for
> those with this setup will need to temporarily disconnect the HDD not
> being installed to in order to avoid the delay.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> -- 
> http://wiki.ubuntu.com/AdamMiller
>
I can confirm this! I reported this in my test report of herd 5 to Jim.
If you wait something about 30 minutes it will continue the install.

Jelle



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Re: Update manager complains about ungettable lock

[Jelle de Jong]

Joachim Ziegler wrote:
> Since 2 or 3 days (I update every day to the newest version), the update 
> managerr compplains:
> 
> could not get lock /var/cache/apt/archives/lock - open (11 Resource 
> temporarily unavailable
> 
> I have to remove the lock file by hand.
> 
> What's wrong? Should I file a bug report?
> 
> J.

are you sure you don't have a package manger running somewhere?
and are you sure you are running the package manager with sudo rights?

Jelle

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Re: Now what's this with OpenOffice.org?

[Jelle de Jong]

Jani Monoses wrote:
>> On the alternate CD there's openoffice and the gtk skin
>> 
>> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/20070402/feisty-alternate-i386.list
>>
>> On the LiveCD , no OO at all
>> 
>> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20070403/feisty-desktop-i386.manifest
>>
>>
>> But if OpenOffice.org is pulled automatically, wouldn't it be better to 
>> have openoffice.org-gtk installed already?
> 
> I said OO is not installed automatically it;s only shipped on the CD. Do you 
> see it getting installed?
> 
> Jani

Hi Jani,

I use the xubuntu 7.04 alternative herd 5 cd with latest updates and
there is openoffice.org-writer without the openoffice.org-gtk installed
by default. Maybe the dependencies has changes because now I don't see
relation with the openoffice.org-writer and the xubuntu-desktop package.
I believe openoffice is a very good program to have by default in
xubuntu. Interoperability has a higher priority than speed for me. I
can't communicate with the rest of the ms world without a reasonable
*.doc interpreter. In a perfect world this would not be necessary but...

Kind regards,

Jelle


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Re: Now what's this with OpenOffice.org?

[Jelle de Jong]

> On 04/04/07, *Jani Monoses* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]  wrote:
> > Vincent,
> >
> > The reason is the language-support-* locale packages and their
> chain of
> > dependencies.
> >
> > Example:
> >
> > http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/translations/language-support-en
> >
> > language-support-en dependency: openoffice.org-help-en-us
> > http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/doc/openoffice.org-help-en-us
> >
> > language-support-en dependency: openoffice.org-l10n-en-us
> > http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/editors/openoffice.org-l10n-en-us
> 
> On the alternate CD there's openoffice and the gtk skin
> 
> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/20070402/feisty-alternate-i386.list
> 
> On the LiveCD , no OO at all
> 
> http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20070403/feisty-desktop-i386.manifest
> 
> 
> But if OpenOffice.org is pulled automatically, wouldn't it be better to
> have openoffice.org-gtk installed already?

I had already pointed out this problem in my debug reports. I strongly
believe that if we install openoffice by default it should use
openoffice.org-gtk bindings. Without it looks terrible and it will
deliver some bad reviews points.

Kind regards,

Jelle

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Re: php 4 in feisty

[Jelle de Jong]

Vincent wrote:
> 
> 
> On 31/03/07, *Jesus Gamio* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] >
> wrote:
> 
> Hi I just install feisty and work fine.
> i havent seen the php4 in the synaptic.
> Feisty dont sopport php4 package ???
> 
> 
> 
> --
> xubuntu-devel mailing list
> xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com 
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
> 
> 
> I guess it should be there, perhaps you should file a bug report?
> 
> -- 
> Vincent
> 
If I followed the MOTU mailinglist correctly PHP4 is not supported
anymore, you may try the backlist reposetory, or use PHP5

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Re: stress-test, for critical system crash bug

[Jelle de Jong]

Andrzej Wieczorek wrote:
> On 3/28/07, Jelle de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> some people out here that would like to do a big test and help me with a
>> critical bug test I have here, I need at least 2 people and the bug test
>> will take a running computer for a hole evening it will be a script I
>> created that is doing a stability test, for around 8 hours worst case
>> your totally system will freeze and crash.
> Should the test be run on a fresh beta install or any other particular
> (pre)release?

The latest xubuntu test version will be fine,

BTW it takes 8 hours to run, but it takes 4 minutes to start it up so
just start it up, go to sleep, and see if it still runs in the morning.

Best regards,

Jelle


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stress-test, for critical system crash bug

[Jelle de Jong]

This message contains the following attachment(s):
stress-test.sh

some people out here that would like to do a big test and help me with a
critical bug test I have here, I need at least 2 people and the bug test
will take a running computer for a hole evening it will be a script I
created that is doing a stability test, for around 8 hours worst case
your totally system will freeze and crash.

a lot more info can be found in the script

please send feedback to me.

Best regard,

Jelle


stress-test.sh
Description: Bourne shell script
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Re: Looking Ahead: Xubuntu Feisty+1, Part 1

[Jelle de Jong]

Vincent wrote:
> 
> 
> On 28/03/07, *Cody Somerville* <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> 
> Hello Everyone,
> 
> I'd really like to thank everyone for being so supportive while I've
> been in the hospital. Everyone has done an amazing job and I really
> regret not being around during such a critical part of the release
> cycle. However, I want to let you know that I'm pumped for Feisty+1
> release cycle and I've taken some time out of my busy schedule
> (haha, I joke, I joke) to write out some thoughts about Xubuntu and
> what we can do to improve the distribution and it's community for
> the next release cycle. As I'm sure you already know, I'm always
> open and happy to get feedback (it lets me know that people actually
> read my ramblings, haha) – so, please, feel free to discuss, tear
> apart, and dissect the following mumble jumble of thoughts and ideas.
> 
> In this e-mail, I'll be tackling the social/community issues. My
> next e-mail will be tackling development related issues.
> 
> == Marketing ==
> 
> Xubuntu Marketing is lacking attention right now. I think the first
> step to remedying this issue is to find a volunteer who is
> interested in taking charge of Marketing for Xubuntu. This person
> would need to be confident in communicating with the public (of
> course), creative, not afraid to get their hands dirty, an excellent
> team-worker, and all that good stuff. The individual would need to
> be a person who doesn't need someone to hold their hand. They would
> need to be able to take charge and start initiatives (like Jim has
> with the testing team).
> 
> Once we get a person filling this role, they would want to get very
> comfy with the ubuntu-marketing team (if they haven't already) to
> allow us to hook into Ubuntu marketing initiatives (ie. Avoid
> duplicating efforts, joint-initiatives, etc.).
> 
> They'd have to brainstorm with the community for sure about things
> such as "How do we want to market Xubuntu?", "Do we want to try and
> give Xubuntu an appeal to the commercial market?".
> 
> Their first project might be working with our resident artist to
> make some artwork which people can use to represent their Xubuntu
> pride on their websites and blogs. From there, the sky is the limit. :)
> 
> Oh, and of course they would help write release announcements, etc. etc.
> 
> == Documentation ==
> 
> Documentation is an interesting creature. We had some pretty lofty
> goals for Feisty documentation which we didn't meet but we did do a
> million times better then Edgy (which used the documentation from
> Dapper unmodified).
> 
> As for Feisty+1, I think that with a bit of leadership, our
> documentation could easily become stellar. There seems to be several
> individuals interested in assisting with Documentation but more
> direction is needed for these people's interest to be actualized
> into hard work . If there is anyone interested in taking the
> initiative to take a leadership position in the Xubuntu
> documentation effort, feel free to let me know and we can see about
> accelerating the process of getting you svn commit access.
> 
> Question: What needs to be done for Documentation?
> 
> Answer: A lot but it can't be articulated in a few words. We need to
> ask ourselves questions like "What information would users most
> likely find helpful? What do we know can be tricky about a certain
> default program? How would I go about instructing a friend to do a
> task like setting up the printer or installing new software?".
> 
> We also need to apply the topic-based help specification to our
> documentation which means major restructuring.
> 
> It would most likely also be beneficial to give the look and feel of
> the documentation an update.
> 
> We might also consider different Xubuntu specific guides we could
> offer such as a migration guide (Ubuntu offers one).
> 
> == ISO Testing ==
> 
> I think Jim is doing an AMAZING job with this. He is the perfect
> example of an excellent Open Source Leader!
>  
> So, what is this section about? Well, maybe we should discuss what
> testing team will do after the final release of Feisty. Maybe they
> could continue to do QA testing of Xubuntu packages and daily
> builds? What are your thoughts Jim?
> 
> == Support ==
> 
> I think it would be interesting if we could get some sort of
> community-focused effort on providing support on IRC and Launchpad
> Support Requests. I know a lot of people already do this regularly
> but I think they deserve recognizability for their awesome efforts.
> Maybe we could form a xubuntu-support team on launchpad? I know we
> need to be careful when creating groups to avoid making a mess of
>  

Re: feisty current alternate image

[Jelle de Jong]

Adam Miller wrote:
> I just had a concerned user join the irc channel and exclaim that he
> couldn't believe that Xubuntu installation image had become larger than
> 700mb. I quickly corrected him by sending him this link:
> 
> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/current/
> 
> and assuring him that we were still below 550mb, but he (who was more
> informed than I) posted back a link to:
> 
> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily/current/
> 
> and informed me that he was trying to test the alternate image but was
> not able to because he lacks a dvd burner and cd-r's have a maximum
> capacity of 700mb (or atleast all the one's he and I own, some
> manufacturer might have gotten a little more on there). I am just
> curious if that image size is what it is supposed to be, and also why
> its so large while the live cd is notably smaller.
> 
> Thanks,
> -Adam

I already send info to Jim about this problem. It was in my xubuntu test
report. I believe it is because the rsync system that adds changes to
the iso and make its size bigger.

This is not a very nice way, instead the iso should be rebuild so it
will be as small as possible.

Regards,

Jelle


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Re: New awesome icon set proposal

[Jelle de Jong]

Vincent wrote:
> 
> 
> On 19/03/07, *jmak* <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> 
> On 3/19/07, Vincent <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 19/03/07, jmak <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:
> > > On 3/19/07, Vincent < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On 19/03/07, Adam Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> > > > > Yeah ... ok, I guess I would have to say I do like those
> over Tango.
> > > > >
> > > > > -Adam
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > On 3/18/07, Jim Campbell < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > wrote:
> > > > > > I like those icons, too.  The one thing is that the folder
> icons
> > seem
> > > > narrower than other folder icons I've seen.  Does anyone else
> notice
> > this?
> > > > Could they be made a wider, more standard width?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Jim
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On 3/18/07, Joshua Gardner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  > wrote:
> > > > > > > Those are really, really cool. I like it.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -Josh
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 3/18/07, jmak < [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > wrote:
> > > > > > > > Hi,
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here is an awesome icon set, Nimbus. It is complate
> and has a
> > GPL
> > > > > > > > licence. This is what we are looking for.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Take a look at it!!
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Here is a screenshot.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > > https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/Misc
> 
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Download from here. Already packaged as a .deb file.
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > >
> > > >
> >
> 
> http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php/Nimbus+%28Ubuntu+and+Debian%29?content=54755
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > Jmak
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > http://jozmak.blogspot.com/
> > > > > > > > http://jozmak.googlepages.com/
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > > xubuntu-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > > xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> 
> > > > > > > >
> > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
> > > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > --
> > > > > > > xubuntu-devel mailing list
> > > > > > > xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> 
> > > > > > >
> > > > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > > > > --
> > > > > > xubuntu-devel mailing list
> > > > > > xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> 
> > > > > >
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > -=:max:=-
> > > > > --
> > > > > xubuntu-devel mailing list
> > > > > xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
> 
> > > > >
> > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
> 
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > I like them too, though I agree that the folder icons are
> either to thin
> > or
> > > > too high :P
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Vincent
> > > > --
> > >
> > > The unique folder design gives a better visual impact. Stick out
> > > rather than blend in, that is the strategy every distro tries to
> > > follow. We should do the same. Success does not belong to those who
> > > always want to follow stereotypes.
> > >
> > > Jmak
> > > --
> > > http://jozmak.blogspot.com/
> > > http://jozmak.googlepages.com/
> > >
> >
> > Standing out is one thing, but this is just weird...
> >
> > --
> 
> If it is weird why is it that on the gnomelook org site the set
> already reached 80 % popularity?
> 
> --
> http://jozmak.blogspot.com/
> http://jozmak.googlepages.com/
> 
> 
> I have no idea, but I vote in favour of wider folder icons.

Always art-work discussions on the list! if you want to implement a new
look just add it too the theme list and make it possible to select is
this new look. If you this new look is accepted it can become the
default one. But don't ch

Re: Why are there 2 printer daemons running by default?

[Jelle de Jong]

Joachim Ziegler wrote:
> Hello Harold,
> 
> Harold Aling wrote:
>> Only if plug-and-play will start hplib automatically so that the user 
>> doesn't have to do anything to get his/her printer/scanner working...
> 
> Sorry, I do not understand your statement.
> 
> I do not have an HP attached, so this service should not be started on 
> my machine (according to Xubuntu's philosophy of being lean). Of course, 
> if more than 50% of all Xubuntu users have an HP attached, then this 
> service should probably be enabled by default. But have they? I am in 
> doubt...
> 
> You could start a lot of services in advance so that some users would 
> not have to do anything to get their hardware working. But this would 
> not be a lean distribution.
> 
> Greetings and thank you all for your fantastic work in Xubuntu,
> Joachim

Joachim,

It is the Ubuntu philosophy that Linux should just work. So if a user
attached a printer it should just be detected and able to install.

Ubuntu loads a lot of daemons by default like evms and raid stuff and
restricted drivers etcetera to create the effect that Linux just works.
Of course it will make your boot process slower but that is the price to
pay.

Do you understand now?

with the sudo update-rc -f daemon remove you can remove the daemons from
the init.d system be very careful with this and back up you init.d systems.

PS. this is more a user list question!

Best regards,

Jelle


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Re: Why are there 2 printer daemons running by default?

[Jelle de Jong]

Joachim Ziegler wrote:
> Hello list,
> 
> I've just installed the latest Xubuntu Feisty Fawn and I'm wondering why 
> there is a cupsd and an hplipd running. Does this not contradict 
> Xubuntu's philosphy of being as lean as possible?
> 
> Do you expect more than 50 % of Xubuntu users to have an HP device 
> attached to their computer?
> 
> Greetings,
> Joachim

I run cups tho manage my printers. I have 3 of them; two hp laser
printers they are working with Ethernet and one hp all-in-one usb
printer. The laserprinters work with cups alone but the usb printer
needs the hplib to be able to print and scan. So I only load the hplib
when i need the hp usb printer. But I always need cups. So hplib is only
a system to get some hp printers and scanner working with cups. It is
not a substitute of cups for hp printers!

Best regards,

Jelle


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Re: Default artwork

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> On 3/5/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Quoting jmak <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>>
>>> On 3/5/07, Gauvain Pocentek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 Hi,

 Did we finally have a decision about artwork/default-settings? I'd like
 to upload a new x-default-settings package, but I need to know what has
 been decided (my choices are almost always crappy).

 Thanks.
 Gauvain

>>> Hello Gauvain,
>>>
>>> The final artworks are here.
>>>
>>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/AllImages
>>>
>>> Jmak
>>>
>>> --
>>> http://jozmak.blogspot.com/
>>> http://jozmak.googlepages.com/
>>>
>>> --
>>> xubuntu-devel mailing list
>>> xubuntu-devel@lists.ubuntu.com
>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/xubuntu-devel
>>>
>> I just wanted to give some feedback on current artwork featured in
>> Herd 5. GDM login screen looks very nice but if you set timed login
>> for any particular user it breaks it. Everything gets shifted. I do
>> not know how to make a screenshot of it but you can try to set timed
>> login in login manager to see it.
>>
> 
> On mine, it works perfectly. I loged in and out a few times but I
> didnt experience any problem. Does anyone have this login problem?
> 
> jmak
Just one other commend don't use berly because I have 3 brand new pc
here with different onboard vga chips that don't support texture
rendering or 3D rendering.

And people please leave the message in a mail list intact and quote
beneath and not above the text! This way you can open the latest mail
and read everything from the first to last message in a up to down order.


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Re: Default artwork

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> On 3/5/07, Gauvain Pocentek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> Did we finally have a decision about artwork/default-settings? I'd like
>> to upload a new x-default-settings package, but I need to know what has
>> been decided (my choices are almost always crappy).
>>
>> Thanks.
>> Gauvain
>>
> 
> Regarding the themes, I recommend this set.
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Proposed/E
> 
> I dont know what others think.
> 
> Jmak

Hi don't really like it but i guess i don't know anything better. One
Important thing is that if the artwork changes there must be a easy
method of going back to the artwork of the previous distribution


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Re: Problem with adding samba printer in Herd 5

[Jelle de Jong]

Foxy wrote:
> Jelle de Jong wrote:
>> Foxy wrote:
>>> Due to some crash of my laptop I decide to ditch Dapper and switch to 
>>> Feisty. This is the first time I decided to install Xubuntu. Before I 
>>> usually used Ubuntu with XFCE.
>>>
>>> The installation was fine but I ran into trouble trying to add Windows 
>>> samba printer. I used Settings/Printing. The programme properly 
>>> identified my shared printer by clicking on it did not add the printer's 
>>> address in the upper window (smb:// ...).
>>>
>>> I tried to do it manually by enabling localhost:631 and using cups 
>>> interface, but still I cannot do it. I think I have the address wrong 
>>> for some reason. I tried to run smbtree:
>>>> ~$ smbtree 
>>>> Password: 
>>>> WORKGROUP
>>>> \\NECAPTOP  necaptop server (Samba, Ubuntu)
>>>> \\NECAPTOP\IPC$ IPC Service (necaptop 
>>>> server (Samba, Ubuntu))
>>>> \\NECAPTOP\etc_nec
>>>> \\NECAPTOP\sveta  
>>>> \\NECAPTOP\sasha  
>>>> \\NECAPTOP\alex   
>>>> \\NECAPTOP\print$   Printer Drivers
>>>> \\AC-PC Al's Uber PC
>>>> \\AC-PC\diskl  
>>>> \\AC-PC\L$  Default share
>>>> \\AC-PC\C$  Default share
>>>> \\AC-PC\H$  Default share
>>>> \\AC-PC\ADMIN$  Remote Admin
>>>> \\AC-PC\dx3800  EPSON Stylus DX3800 Series
>>>> \\AC-PC\diskd  
>>>> \\AC-PC\print$  Printer Drivers
>>>> \\AC-PC\SharedDocs 
>>>> \\AC-PC\D$  Default share
>>>> \\AC-PC\IPC$Remote IPC
>>>> \\AC-PC\diskh  
>>> So I put smb://WORKGROUP/AK-PC/dx3800, but CUPS shows
>>>> "Unable to connect to CIFS host, will retry in 60 seconds..."
>> Maybe the problem is somewhere else i don't know. But can you mount a
>> smb share and use it normally. So we can be sure it is a printer issue?
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Jelle
>>
> 
> Yes, I can do it without any problem...

Are you sure it is the correct address? I always use direct IP
addresses! I have two Ethernet based printers HP and use this:
socket://192.168.1.63/
socket://145.52.123.51:9100/


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Re: Problem with adding samba printer in Herd 5

[Jelle de Jong]

Foxy wrote:
> Due to some crash of my laptop I decide to ditch Dapper and switch to 
> Feisty. This is the first time I decided to install Xubuntu. Before I 
> usually used Ubuntu with XFCE.
> 
> The installation was fine but I ran into trouble trying to add Windows 
> samba printer. I used Settings/Printing. The programme properly 
> identified my shared printer by clicking on it did not add the printer's 
> address in the upper window (smb:// ...).
> 
> I tried to do it manually by enabling localhost:631 and using cups 
> interface, but still I cannot do it. I think I have the address wrong 
> for some reason. I tried to run smbtree:
>> ~$ smbtree 
>> Password: 
>> WORKGROUP
>> \\NECAPTOP  necaptop server (Samba, Ubuntu)
>> \\NECAPTOP\IPC$ IPC Service (necaptop server 
>> (Samba, Ubuntu))
>> \\NECAPTOP\etc_nec
>> \\NECAPTOP\sveta  
>> \\NECAPTOP\sasha  
>> \\NECAPTOP\alex   
>> \\NECAPTOP\print$   Printer Drivers
>> \\AC-PC Al's Uber PC
>> \\AC-PC\diskl  
>> \\AC-PC\L$  Default share
>> \\AC-PC\C$  Default share
>> \\AC-PC\H$  Default share
>> \\AC-PC\ADMIN$  Remote Admin
>> \\AC-PC\dx3800  EPSON Stylus DX3800 Series
>> \\AC-PC\diskd  
>> \\AC-PC\print$  Printer Drivers
>> \\AC-PC\SharedDocs 
>> \\AC-PC\D$  Default share
>> \\AC-PC\IPC$Remote IPC
>> \\AC-PC\diskh  
> 
> So I put smb://WORKGROUP/AK-PC/dx3800, but CUPS shows
>> "Unable to connect to CIFS host, will retry in 60 seconds..."

Maybe the problem is somewhere else i don't know. But can you mount a
smb share and use it normally. So we can be sure it is a printer issue?

Best regards,

Jelle

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I will voluntairto guide Clawsmail to become a good mail client and be its MOTO

[Jelle de Jong]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2219597#post2219597
http://www.claws-mail.org/

Hello guy's,

There have been a lot of heated discussions about the default mail
client for xubuntu.

Clawsmail vs Thunderbird

I believe that Thunderbird is on this moment the best client for the
normal non geek user and clawsmail need a lot of work. But there are
people that disagree with that, so I tried to convince them. But they
are fanatic and want more information (I like that, means they stand
behind what the do!)

So I made a decision's. I will be the package maintainer for the next 3
or 2 releases of xubuntu. Then we will come together again and decide if
clawsmail is user friendly enough to become the default mail client for
xubuntu.

I will work together with the clawsmail developers to address problems
and do debugging and feature request etcetera.

What do you people think of it!

(please no discussion about clawsmail vs thunderbird in the mailinglist!!)

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I will voluntairto guide Clawsmail to become a good mail client and be its MOTO

[Jelle de Jong]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=2219597#post2219597
http://www.claws-mail.org/

Hello guy's,

There have been a lot of heated discussions about the default mail
client for xubuntu.

Clawsmail vs Thunderbird

I believe that Thunderbird is on this moment the best client for the
normal non geek user and clawsmail need a lot of work. But there are
people that disagree with that, so I tried to convince them. But they
are fanatic and want more information (I like that, means they stand
behind what the do!)

So I made a decision's. I will be the package maintainer for the next 3
or 2 releases of xubuntu. Then we will come together again and decide if
clawsmail is user friendly enough to become the default mail client for
xubuntu.

I will work together with the clawsmail developers to address problems
and do debugging and feature request etcetera.

What do you people think of it!


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Re: proposed heirarchy for xubuntu testing wiki

[Jelle de Jong]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Jim Campbell wrote:
> Jelle,
> 
> Thanks for your comments.  When you refer to the "table with every phase
> of the testing process and a time table with it," are you referring to
> the ubuntu feisty release schedule
> ?  Would you like me to
> provide a link to that in the testing wiki?  I think that would be a
> good reference to have, so I'll go ahead and set that up, but let me
> know if you were referring to something else.
> 
> As for the custom user debugging testing scripts, I think I would prefer
> to just have solid standard testing scripts in place for right now.  I
> want to make it easy for people to report their tests, and not scare
> them away with requests for too much detail.  If there is a particular
> test that you would like to see added to either of the current testing
> scripts, though, please let me know.
> 
> I'm going to be gradually refining the testing scripts over time,
> though, so perhaps you could give an example of what you had in mind?  I
> will certainly be looking to adding/subtracting/changing the test
> procedures in the future.
> 
> Thanks again,
> 
> Jim

Hi Jim,

That is exactly what I mean, thanks for adding it. Some more points. I
get very often lost on the wiki pages. I can't see the structure. Can
you create a page with the total structure with every page related to
the testing process?

Little example:

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/
How do i get form there to:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/
How do i get from there to:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing (!There is something wrong with
the link to the testing page!) (interwiki broken, i changed some links
but its not interwiki anymore)

If you are on this page:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Current
There is no way of knowing the relations of this page:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/
and go there.

You have to do it manually in the address bar!

Why are all links case sensitive?

If the testing process of Ubuntu is well documented and the structure is
clear. There should not be a need to recreate a new page for everything
on xubuntu. A copy past and some name and link changing should be fine.
But I can't find a clear structure of the testing process there either.

To be fare I thing the xubuntu testing docs are a lot better now and if
they improve on this way it would be very good.

Jelle

PS. is it possible to get quoting rules for the xubuntu-devel list and
put them beneath in the header?
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GOUx6QaKTARSGWHy+lEBXzWwaiSHdeJdVKQBADs7SDjEsJu5fRI44U9gHwVKdOxU
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=+rhv
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Re: proposed heirarchy for xubuntu testing wiki

[Jelle de Jong]

Jim Campbell wrote:
> I've put a revised set of testing information and posting instructions
> up on the Xubuntu Testing  wiki
> page.
> 
> Because we're in the pre-Herd 5 development cycle, please focus on doing
> short tests of the nightly releases.  There's some good info on the
> different types of tests on the Testing Info
>  page.  Be sure to
> check out the section that explains updating your nightly image using
> rsync!  There's no need to do a full 600MB+ download each time.  :)
> 
> If you've posted a test to the "Current" page within the past few days,
> that test has been archived to the PreHerd4
>  page.
> 
> If you have any comments or suggestions on how the pages can be
> improved, please let me know.  I expect some refinements in the next few
> days.  Hopefully this is a good start, though.  Thanks, all.
> 
> Jim

Hi Jim,

Can you add a table with every phase of the testing process and a time
table with it?

And a way to generate custom users debugging testing scripts.

Like I can do the default short and long tests. And than do my own
testing script. I want to make this public but on the wiki, so if there
is a nice framework for it. Then that would be nice.

Jelle

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Re: Artwork packages (I spell to bad :-D)

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> On 2/21/07, Jelle de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> jmak wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Here are a few pointers. The usplash should have a flat background,
>>> this is the rule. The other thing is that in the index color mode,
>>> images look best when the colors are flat or close to flat. That is
>>> why I toned down the colors in the text logo; just giving enough
>>> highlights to make sure that color banding wont happen. If anyone
>>> wants to see how bad the continuous tone artwork look in index mode
>>> take a look at fedora screen-shots.
>>>
>>> The login box. Please take a look at the images in context rather than
>>> in isolation. And when you suggest something articulate it, because
>>> saying like this should be lighter or darker of more blue or more
>>> artistic and so on are quite meaningless.
>>>
>>> The idea behind the artworks is to further refine the edgy artworks.
>>> Ubuntu, Kubuntu people are doing the same, as far as I can see. Take a
>>> look at Ubuntu herd4; the wallpaper is very simple almost flat.  We
>>> too should follow similar strategy rather than changing the look and
>>> feel of the distro radically from release to release.
>> Of course we have to continue developing the artwork. And I am not
>> saying you are doing things bad. You sort of have to learn to express
>> things we like and thins we don't like. My propoasal to help with this is:
>>
>> "quote" >
>> Can you do some research for xubuntu and getter all the usplash screens
>> of the ubuntu destro's and zenwalk, fedora, redhat, suse, dreamlinux, ms
>> vista and some other popular distributions.
>>
>> Than put them or links to it on the xubuntu art wiki, then we can see
>> what we like and don't like about them. And get some direction on what
>> would be a very nice usplash artwork.
>>
>> This way we could give you specific answers that can help you a lot better.
>>
>> Is this a good idea for your?
> 
> Here is a link to the screenshots.
> 
> http://shots.linuxquestions.org/
> 
> But the approach you are suggesting doesnt hava much use.
> This is not like cooking that is to say mix a bit of bean, lentil and
> greenpeas and the supper is done.
> 
Thanks for the link gives me more insights.

The first thing I noticed is that I really don't like 3D style
letters. for example the letters used by xubuntu, kubuntu, nubuntu.
Almost all distributions use flat style text. I like noticed that I like
flat text. The only exception can be Linspire that one is ok.

http://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Linspire%205.1.451

My advice:

Put the logo vertical centered on the page and place some xubuntu style
flat text beneath it. Text shadow bye text is fine to use. If it is
forbidden to change the way the logo and the text are on one line than
forget I suggested to change it. But changing the text would with some
flat text style would be nice.

Black is not the most attractive background color, It does not match the
xubuntu them style and could be a more user friendly. Like something of
the blue background color of xubuntu.

I really like a lined box process bar with good contrast colors and
lines, examples are:

http://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Atomix%204.0
http://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Fedora%20Core%206
http://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Zenwalk%204.2

I think i like the zenwalk artwork the best as far for the boot process,
because its simplicity, good matching colors, good contrast between
elements and the nice text style.

I did not had time to check all those images of the distributions on the
site. But I hope this helps you a bit?


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Re: Artwork packages

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> On 2/21/07, Jelle de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> jmak wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Here are a few pointers. The usplash should have a flat background,
>>> this is the rule. The other thing is that in the index color mode,
>>> images look best when the colors are flat or close to flat. That is
>>> why I toned down the colors in the text logo; just giving enough
>>> highlights to make sure that color banding wont happen. If anyone
>>> wants to see how bad the continuous tone artwork look in index mode
>>> take a look at fedora screen-shots.
>>>
>>> The login box. Please take a look at the images in context rather than
>>> in isolation. And when you suggest something articulate it, because
>>> saying like this should be lighter or darker of more blue or more
>>> artistic and so on are quite meaningless.
>>>
>>> The idea behind the artworks is to further refine the edgy artworks.
>>> Ubuntu, Kubuntu people are doing the same, as far as I can see. Take a
>>> look at Ubuntu herd4; the wallpaper is very simple almost flat.  We
>>> too should follow similar strategy rather than changing the look and
>>> feel of the distro radically from release to release.
>> Of course we have to continue developing the artwork. And I am not
>> saying you are doing things bad. You sort of have to learn to express
>> things we like and thins we don't like. My propoasal to help with this is:
>>
>> "quote" >
>> Can you do some research for xubuntu and getter all the usplash screens
>> of the ubuntu destro's and zenwalk, fedora, redhat, suse, dreamlinux, ms
>> vista and some other popular distributions.
>>
>> Than put them or links to it on the xubuntu art wiki, then we can see
>> what we like and don't like about them. And get some direction on what
>> would be a very nice usplash artwork.
>>
>> This way we could give you specific answers that can help you a lot better.
>>
>> Is this a good idea for your?
> 
> Here is a link to the screenshots.
> 
> http://shots.linuxquestions.org/
> 
> But the approach you are suggesting doesnt hava much use.
> This is not like cooking that is to say mix a bit of bean, lentil and
> greenpeas and the supper is done.
> 
Thanks for the link gives me more insights.

Ok, the first thing i noticed is that i really don't like the 3D style
letters that xubuntu, kubuntu, nubuntu.. etc are using almost all
distributions use flat style text. I like flat text. The only exception
is Linspire that one I could go on:h
ttp://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Linspire%205.1.451

My advice:

Put the logo vertical centered on the page and place some xubuntu style
flat text beneath it. (text shadow is ok) if it is forbidden to change
the way the logo and than the text are in one line than forget placing
the text beneath the logo. But changing the text would to flat text
would be nice.

The background should not be black, but should be a more user friendly
color. Like the blue background color of xubuntu.

The process bar. I really like a lined box with good contrast a a proces
box like these:

http://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Atomix%204.0
http://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Fedora%20Core%206
http://shots.linuxquestions.org/?linux_distribution_sm=Zenwalk%204.2

Btw I think i like the zenwalk artwork the best, because it's
simplicity, good matching colors, good contrast between elements and
nice text.

I did not have time to check all those distributions on the site.

Hope this help you a bit?

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Re: Artwork packages

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Here are a few pointers. The usplash should have a flat background,
> this is the rule. The other thing is that in the index color mode,
> images look best when the colors are flat or close to flat. That is
> why I toned down the colors in the text logo; just giving enough
> highlights to make sure that color banding wont happen. If anyone
> wants to see how bad the continuous tone artwork look in index mode
> take a look at fedora screen-shots.
> 
> The login box. Please take a look at the images in context rather than
> in isolation. And when you suggest something articulate it, because
> saying like this should be lighter or darker of more blue or more
> artistic and so on are quite meaningless.
> 
> The idea behind the artworks is to further refine the edgy artworks.
> Ubuntu, Kubuntu people are doing the same, as far as I can see. Take a
> look at Ubuntu herd4; the wallpaper is very simple almost flat.  We
> too should follow similar strategy rather than changing the look and
> feel of the distro radically from release to release.

Of course we have to continue developing the artwork. And I am not
saying you are doing things bad. You sort of have to learn to express
things we like and thins we don't like. My propoasal to help with this is:

"quote" >
Can you do some research for xubuntu and getter all the usplash screens
of the ubuntu destro's and zenwalk, fedora, redhat, suse, dreamlinux, ms
vista and some other popular distributions.

Than put them or links to it on the xubuntu art wiki, then we can see
what we like and don't like about them. And get some direction on what
would be a very nice usplash artwork.

This way we could give you specific answers that can help you a lot better.

Is this a good idea for your?




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Re: Artwork packages

[Jelle de Jong]

Hoi Jmak,

Thank you for your work, really appreciated. First of all don't take
this personal. I look all the artwork, and it did not attract me,
personal opinion.

The Logo is ok, i can life with that.

GDM Login: the letters xubuntu does not match the logo, the colors are
to light.

Usplash 1024: I think the letters are to bold and not very shiny.

Advise:

Can you some research fo xubuntu and getter all the usplash screens of
the ubuntu destro's and zenwalk, fedora, redhat, suse, dreamlinux, ms
vista and some other popular distributions.

Than put them on a wiki, then we can see what we like and don't like
about them. And get some direction on what would be a very nice usplash
artwork.

What do you think of this idea?

Best regards,

Jelle


jmak wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> As a result of our team discussion on Saturday, I put together a
> variety of artwork packages that are ready for voting.
> 
> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Feisty/Incoming
> 
> jmak

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Welkom Roberto - Staring with testing?

[Jelle de Jong]

Welkom Roberto,

Roberto Benitez wrote:
> Hi everybody !
> Let me introduce myself quickly:
> I am Roberto. more than 15 years working and having fun developing with
> multiple languages like COBOL, vb6, Oracle PL/SQL, java, python, etc.
> (always in windows env and always thinking to change to linux).
> Couple of months ago, I discovered Ubuntu, its philosophy, comunity,
> etc.etc.
> Now, I have decided to migrate all my stuff and definetely start having
> fun with linux and been part of an open source comunity.
> So then, I don't have much experience developing with python or linux
> kernel but I am more than willing to start helping you guys which
> wherever you think I could: testing, documenting (spanish, english,
> french). Who knows...maybe in the near future developing too. I
> specifically can offer about 10 to 20 hours a week starting on march.
> Thank you and have a nice day.
If you want to get started, testing the new xubuntu release would be great.


https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Testing/Current
http://cdimage.ubuntu.com/xubuntu/daily-live/20070218/ (Daily build see
if you got the latest!)
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/ReportingBugs
http://xubuntu.org/devel#bug_triage

This should help you get a idea how to get started.

Best regards,

Jelle

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Re: Thunar default configuration

[Jelle de Jong]

Gauvain Pocentek wrote:
> 
> 
> 2007/1/17, Jelle de Jong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>:
> 
> 
> People that develop features should also document them correctly or find
> someone that does it for them. I believe this should be part of the
> development process. Bad documentation is a big issue for me.
> 
> 
> 
> Benny has written a really nice documentation, which is already
> translated in several languages:
> http://thunar.xfce.org/documentation/C/using-removable-media.html#management-of-removable-drives-and-media
> 
That documentation looks ok. Benedikt knows what he is doing.  Can we
make a test distribution with these kind of features. Doest the feisty
test image contain this feature? So we can test them and see if there
are any problems before going mainstream.

Jelle

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Re: Thunar default configuration

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> On 1/17/07, Cody A.W. Somerville <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> This feature clearly improves usability. The number of people who would
>> appreciate this feature, I believe, would outweigh the number of people who
>> would not appreciate it. For those who don't like it, they can, as you said,
>> easily disable it.
>>
>>> I am with you, don't do stuff unless asked or configured,
>>  Why not force the user to manually mount their drivers? Why don't we just
>> provide the packages and let the users configure the system from scratch?
>> Why automatically configure X when the use can just write the xorg.conf file
>> necessary for X to work? Or better yet, Why not make users patch and compile
>> their own kernels?
>>
>>> So, just like we removed special desktop icons, I'd prefer not enabling
>> this tools by default.
>>
>> This should also be enabled once there is an option in the mcs desktop
>> configuration plugin to disable it. It is one of the most asked questions on
>> #xubuntu.
>>
>> As for documentation, easier said then done. Don't just say "we'll write the
>> documentation for it" until you're ready to actually write the documentation
>> yourself.
>>
>> Sorry if this e-mail comes across as a little aggressive but I'm a little
>> taken back by the only rational being presented to disable this feature is
>> "I don't like it". I bet people upstream would be disappointed that you
>> would discard their hard work so easily.
>>
>> -1 for disabling this feature by default.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Cody A.W. Somerville
>>
> 
> I agree with you completely. We shouldn't assume that user will know
> how to do this or that, when many of them don't even know how to
> create a folder or save a file.
> 
> Jmak
> 
I totally agree with you to make the default settings with the average
non geek as audience, so +1 for enabling desktop icons and auto mount
features. The quote from me "I am with you, don't do stuff unless asked
or configured" I did not want to came over the way it did. I mean that
it is good to implement new usability features by default. But make a
way to control them and document them so it will only do stuff when ask.

People that develop features should also document them correctly or find
someone that does it for them. I believe this should be part of the
development process. Bad documentation is a big issue for me.

Jelle

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Re: Thunar default configuration

[Jelle de Jong]

Gauvain Pocentek wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Thunar has been really improved in the past days/weeks and now offers 
> some features like:
>  - popup windows warning the user that a media has been unmounted/ejected
>  - automatic and configurable behaviours when a media is plugged in 
> (gtkpod can start as soon as you plug your ipod for instance).
> 
> The question is: do we want this enabled by default in Xubuntu?
> 
> I personnaly don't use (and don't really like) that kind of tools, and 
> what I always appreciated in Xubuntu is that it doesn't do things if you 
> don't ask it to do them. So, just like we removed special desktop icons, 
> I'd prefer not enabling this tools by default.
> Again, this is _my_ opinion, and I won't make a decision about this on 
> my own :)
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Gauvain

I am with you, don't do stuff unless asked or configured, BUT we must
document how to enable stuff and what kind of commands the users must
use to get there stuff working correctly. So good accessible
documentation on the Xubuntu website>?

Jelle

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Re: Developments Idea's for feisty and next distro

[Jelle de Jong]

Hello,

So let's talk about real development here.

I have done some research on how to improve xubuntu. I have looked at
dreamlinux zenwalk and fedora and there xfce desktops. There are quite a
lot of things that are good idea's for xubuntu.

I would recommended to set vmware images on the website for dreamlinux
xubuntu and zenwalk. This is for testing and research.

We could implement more panel plugins like in DreamLinux.
We could implement search tools like in zenwalk.
We could implement a better working combination of the programs like in
dreamlinux and zenwalk.

What do you guy's think?

Regards,

Jelle

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Have tested Zenwalk and I think we sould realy consider to join forces with the graphical stuff!

[Jelle de Jong]

Hi guy's,

I have been testing zenwalk on vmware and I am very impressed. I was testing to 
see how they implemented xfce and the graphical looks of it.

First thing I noticed, was the completion of nice together fitting icon's on 
all menu items apps, and panel items and more stuff. It just looks right then.
We can for example exchange this graphical work and build better linux 
distro's. I think we should really make work of the fitting of the right icons 
by the apps, also when scaling the icons bigger and smaller they should always 
look nice.

Also I spoke with some zenwalk users through IRC. And indeed say that they that 
xubuntu is a bad gnome clone. When I ask further they come by these thoughts 
because of the top and bottom bar of the desktop. When ask further and 
defending xubuntu they frustrated pointed to the xubuntu website 
http://www.xubuntu.org/screenshots. And indeed there is not much change between 
the screenshots. Time for some changes there guys. We can change this "bad" 
image very easily. We use xfce and so do they it is easily to changes the looks 
to something similar to zenwalk and dreamlinux so lets do this. Jmak I believe 
you were head of the xubuntu art work? Can you do this? and change edgy in a 
few different configuration's with different looks. Also make a tutorial around 
it so user can easily do it them self. We can put this on the website.

Also we could make a tool/script system for xfce to be able to load different 
graphical configurations all in one time. To be more detailed: xfce is using 
his own settings to make xfce appear like it is now. Zenwalk and Dreamlinux and 
other xfce distro's also have to manually set all these settings. Let's make a 
tool or extend the "User interface preferences" with a configuration file and a 
open standard for it. That let us load different graphical configurations for 
the total xfce desktop system. Jani, I believe you have the best contacts with 
xfce developers like Benedikt. Can you do some work on this front?

Good idea's? To much text here? Am I to pussy? :-D

Best regards,

Jelle


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Re: pinot

[Jelle de Jong]

On Wed, 10 Jan 2007 12:57:10 +0200
Jani Monoses <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Hi
> 
> do you have experiences with pinot/xapian? We talked about having an 
> indexer and search interface even before Dapper but it doe snot look 
> like we have many apps to choose from. We'd need something with features 
> like beagle but lighter (C/C++, gtk only)
> 
> Another is tracker (not yet in feisty) which uses gnome deps though and
> it's author is trying to propose it for inclusion in the next gnome 
> release but with not much support from others.
> 
> So if any of you have used either pinot or tracker please share your 
> experience
> 
> thanks
> Jani

I believe zenwalk has implemented some search engine in there xfce environment. 
Also the GUI around the find command in ubuntu looks nice. Just some idea's :-p 
I personally use the command-line and the find and locate commands.

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Re: Menu button

[Jelle de Jong]

On Tue, 9 Jan 2007 20:28:52 -0600
"Adam Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thats a completely different Desktop Environment and I don't see any menu
> icon that would be remotely relevant to what we are talking about.
> 
> -Adam
> 
> On 1/9/07, alexander cox <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > We could take something similar to this:
> > http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/27/Symph-032.png
Hi Jmak,

I have a idea, you can make all the idea's you like and change everything you 
want.

Give every design or change a code. Create a part on the xubuntu website with a 
feedback system for the visual appearance of things. Everyone can then post 
there what they like and dislike and with the code system they can easily 
reference there feedback. Also make sure you can always easily fall back to the 
original settings. On my opinion there should be less work on new features but 
more work on the excising problem's. Don't create new problems before the old 
ones are solved. For example there are still a lot of program's with very ugly 
or no icon's. This will make them look out of place and does not increase the 
visual attraction to the xfce menu. Just some thoughts :-D

Best regards,

Jelle


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Re: Menu button

[Jelle de Jong]

jmak wrote:
> The idea is to develop a distinct personality for xubuntu. I am just
> coming up with ideas that I think would improve xubuntu's usability
> and look and feel. By the way, everybody is invited to join in.
> Anyway, if we don't customize the desktop just take whatever others
> think the default should be then we justify the critics according to
> which xubuntu is just a poor gnome clone in an xfce clothing. Look at
> Dreamlinux, it is everywhere nowadays, but I don't think just because
> of the applications it installs by default. But rather because of its
> innovative interface that people like to play with. So don't be timid
> and just follow what others do. Remember the last year about the logo
> discussions? There were lots of nay sayers--logo shouldn't be glossy,
> shouldn't be shadows, shouldn't be 3D and things like that. And when I
> presented the concept to the ubuntu art list everyone adopted it right
> away. So the conclusion is that we should strive to be leaders rather
> than followers otherwise we never stick out from the crowd.
> 
> Jmak

Well said, I stand behind you!

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Re: Live cd / alt cd in Xubuntu

[Jelle de Jong]

Matthew Kuiken wrote:
> Robert B. Lance Sr. wrote:
>> question:
>> how hard (in terms of work and cd space) would it be to add the text 
>> installer to the live cd?
>> I've noticed a lot of ppl with issues that they get failure when using 
>> live cd...it fails to run and they need to download and burn a new cd 
>> for the alt install
>> It seems to me that if we could add the text installer to the live cd 
>> start menu, it would save some newbies aggravation
>> I was actually surprised that it was not included already when I got my 
>> dapper cd's in the mail that it was NOT an option!
> 
> The biggest problem is that the text installer uses packages, and 
> installs from sets of packages to the hard drive.  Very similar to 
> booting into single user mode, and then using apt-get to install 
> *everything*.  The Live CD does not contain packages in the same sense. 
>   The packages are already installed onto a compressed file system, and 
> the installer just copies files from one file system to another during 
> install.  In order to have both on one disk, you would need to use 
> double the disk space, because all the packages would be on the CD 
> twice, once in the Live file system, and once in the apt repository.
> 
> Later in the thread, doing a DVD was brought up, but I believe that the 
> same argument that is being used on claws applies - Who will step up to 
> create and maintain said feature?  This is not something that should 
> just be foisted off onto the core devs, and I don't think it is in 
> (K)Ubuntu.  I believe that the DVDs are created by others who want that 
> functionality.
> 
> -Matt
What about a general dvd full with deb packages that are updated
regularly like once a month. This dvd can be used by all the ubuntu
distro's. This will remove the problem of downloading all the packages.
Also you can easily make a system that the install cd installs the
basics app's and the rest comes from the dvd.


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Re: Claws-Mail in Xubuntu

[Jelle de Jong]

On Sun, 07 Jan 2007 17:00:57 +0100
Gauvain Pocentek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Colin Leroy wrote:
> > Hi there,
> >
> > I saw the forum post there:
> > http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=1977735
> >
> > If you want to switch to Claws as the default mail client in
> > Xubuntu, I'm interested in helping.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >   
> 
> Thanks for your proposal, but I've several concerns:
> 
> 1. we already had this discussion (for dapper and edgy), and it seems 
> that (for the moment) TBird, even if it's a bigger app, provides more 
> features and is more stable
> 2. who will maintain the package, ie. fix the bugs, deal with
> updates... ? 3. claws will need to be promoted in main, and with it 3
> other source packages. Who will maintain them? And an ubuntu policy
> is to avoid duplication of apps in main. We already have evolution
> and thunderbird. I doubt that the distro team will be OK to promote a
> new GTK mail client. 4. I didn't find an easy way to import my TBird
> mailboxes/settings. I don't want to set everything again (filters,
> folders and such). 5. last time I tried claws, it wasn't possible to
> keep the mails on the mail server. This is a blocker, for me at least.
> 
> Gauvain
> 
Yes I concur with these points. If I have to vote between thunderbird
or claws it will absolutely be thunderbrid. Also a multiple packaging
system for easy average and advanced is just to much work and to
complicated.

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Re: Live cd / alt cd in Xubuntu

[Jelle de Jong]

On Sun, 7 Jan 2007 10:31:18 -0500
"Robert B. Lance Sr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> question:
> how hard (in terms of work and cd space) would it be to add the text
> installer to the live cd? I've noticed a lot of ppl with issues that
> they get failure when using live cd...it fails to run and they need
> to download and burn a new cd for the alt install It seems to me that
> if we could add the text installer to the live cd start menu, it
> would save some newbies aggravation I was actually surprised that it
> was not included already when I got my dapper cd's in the mail that
> it was NOT an option!
> 
> Robert B. Lance Sr.

Good idea, I stand behind this. Maybe even a DVD release.

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