Re: [yocto] any rumblings about a newer YP powerpc reference board than mpc8315e-rdb?

[Lennart Sorensen]

On Fri, Mar 03, 2017 at 01:55:24PM -, Andy Pont wrote:
> Ross Burton wrote...
> 
> >> it seems of limited value for YP to have a powerpc reference board,
> >> mpc8315e-rdb, that is essentially impossible to procure. is there any
> >> effort being made to look around for a newer powerpc reference board
> >> that people could actually buy?
> >
> >Do you have any suggestions?
> 
> If we are being strictly pedantic then is isn't PowerPC (at least in the 
> world that is Freescale / NXP / Whoever they are this week).
> 
> I would look at one of the P10xx series QorIQ boards.  Digi-Key list the 
> P1021RDB-PC-ND and P1024RDB-PA-ND as being active parts which are either 
> single or dual e500 cores.

Well it is a decent powerpcspe reference, but I sure wouldn't consider
it a powerpc reference.  It isn't quite compatible with standard powerpc.

Where I used to work we told freescale that nothing with the e500 was
ever going to be of interest, since if wasn't compatible with our existing
83xx based stuff, nor anything in the future like the e5500/e6500 or
even e500mc.

Sure for some uses it is fine, but I consider it wrong to call it
powerpc without clearly mentioning it is the SPE variant, not the
traditional type one would be used to.

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Re: [yocto] any rumblings about a newer YP powerpc reference board than mpc8315e-rdb?

[Leon Woestenberg]

Hi,

I didn't check availability, but p2020rdb is it's successor (and similar, 2010).
 
Regards, Leon




> On 3 Mar 2017, at 14:51, Robert P. J. Day  wrote:
> 
>> On Fri, 3 Mar 2017, Burton, Ross wrote:
>> 
>> On 3 March 2017 at 13:24, Robert P. J. Day  wrote:
>>it seems of limited value for YP to have a powerpc reference
>>  board, mpc8315e-rdb, that is essentially impossible to
>>  procure. is there any effort being made to look around for a
>>  newer powerpc reference board that people could actually buy?
>> 
>> Do you have any suggestions?
> 
>  not at the moment ... perhaps the powerpc or freescale folks can
> weigh in. i'm not a powerpc expert, but it does seem pointless to have
> a reference board that no one can get.
> 
> rday
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
>http://crashcourse.ca
> 
> Twitter:   http://twitter.com/rpjday
> LinkedIn:   http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
> 
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Re: [yocto] any rumblings about a newer YP powerpc reference board than mpc8315e-rdb?

[Stefano Babic]

Hi Robert,

On 03/03/2017 15:53, Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Mar 2017, Andy Pont wrote:
> 
>> Robert wrote...
>>
 I would look at one of the P10xx series QorIQ boards.  Digi-Key list
 the P1021RDB-PC-ND and P1024RDB-PA-ND as being active parts which
 are either single or dual e500 cores.
>>>
>>>   i would start with the machine definition files in the meta-fsl-ppc
>>> layer:
>>>
>>> http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/meta-fsl-ppc/tree/conf/machine
>>>
>>> and see what looks promising. however, IIRC, one of the properties of
>>> a YP reference board is that it shouldn't be stupid, crazy expensive,
>>> no? so anything climbing above $500 (USD) might not be an option.
>>> people used to spending $60 for a beaglebone black might have a
>>> seizure to suddenly realize they need $500 for a powerpc reference
>>> board.
>>
>> Using Digi-Key UK as my reference, they list the MPC8308-RDB-ND and
>> MPC8313E-RDBC-ND as being available for less than £250 which makes
>> them sub $300 which is probably the best price I have seen for Power
>> Architecture reference boards.
>>
>> Granted, they are still more expensive than a BBB, RPi or something
>> like that but cheap compared to >$2,000 reference boards we used to
>> have to buy in the old days!
> 
>   in canada, distributors are charging over $400 (CAD) for either of
> those, which you'd normally think would be outside the bounds for a YP
> reference board, but it may be that that's what you have to accept for
> even an inexpensive PPC dev kit.
> 
>   a better question is, what PPC platform are people working with
> these days? it seems pointless to select an older technology just
> because it's cheaper, only to have no one buy it because it's useless.
> so who out there is working with powerpc, and what PPC platform would
> have enough general interest that it would be worth making the YP
> reference board?
> 

One more question is regarding the EOL of some of these processors.
P1010/14 reaches EOL next year, P1021/23 in two years. It should be also
avoided to take a board that has a very short life time. The MPC8313
reached EOL last year :-(.

>   or, perhaps (god forbid) there's no actual point in even *having* a
> powerpc reference board?

IMHO it was always a good point for me to have a reference for e500. I
mainly had projects with P202x, QorIQ.

Best regards,
Stefano

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Re: [yocto] any rumblings about a newer YP powerpc reference board than mpc8315e-rdb?

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Fri, 3 Mar 2017, Andy Pont wrote:

> Robert wrote...
>
> > > I would look at one of the P10xx series QorIQ boards.  Digi-Key list
> > > the P1021RDB-PC-ND and P1024RDB-PA-ND as being active parts which
> > > are either single or dual e500 cores.
> >
> >   i would start with the machine definition files in the meta-fsl-ppc
> > layer:
> >
> > http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/meta-fsl-ppc/tree/conf/machine
> >
> > and see what looks promising. however, IIRC, one of the properties of
> > a YP reference board is that it shouldn't be stupid, crazy expensive,
> > no? so anything climbing above $500 (USD) might not be an option.
> > people used to spending $60 for a beaglebone black might have a
> > seizure to suddenly realize they need $500 for a powerpc reference
> > board.
>
> Using Digi-Key UK as my reference, they list the MPC8308-RDB-ND and
> MPC8313E-RDBC-ND as being available for less than £250 which makes
> them sub $300 which is probably the best price I have seen for Power
> Architecture reference boards.
>
> Granted, they are still more expensive than a BBB, RPi or something
> like that but cheap compared to >$2,000 reference boards we used to
> have to buy in the old days!

  in canada, distributors are charging over $400 (CAD) for either of
those, which you'd normally think would be outside the bounds for a YP
reference board, but it may be that that's what you have to accept for
even an inexpensive PPC dev kit.

  a better question is, what PPC platform are people working with
these days? it seems pointless to select an older technology just
because it's cheaper, only to have no one buy it because it's useless.
so who out there is working with powerpc, and what PPC platform would
have enough general interest that it would be worth making the YP
reference board?

  or, perhaps (god forbid) there's no actual point in even *having* a
powerpc reference board?

rday

-- 


Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
http://crashcourse.ca

Twitter:   http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn:   http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
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Re: [yocto] any rumblings about a newer YP powerpc reference board than mpc8315e-rdb?

[Andy Pont]

Robert wrote...

> > I would look at one of the P10xx series QorIQ boards.  Digi-Key list
> > the P1021RDB-PC-ND and P1024RDB-PA-ND as being active parts which
> > are either single or dual e500 cores.
> 
>   i would start with the machine definition files in the meta-fsl-ppc
> layer:
> 
> http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/meta-fsl-ppc/tree/conf/machine
> 
> and see what looks promising. however, IIRC, one of the properties of
> a YP reference board is that it shouldn't be stupid, crazy expensive,
> no? so anything climbing above $500 (USD) might not be an option.
> people used to spending $60 for a beaglebone black might have a
> seizure to suddenly realize they need $500 for a powerpc reference
> board.

Using Digi-Key UK as my reference, they list the MPC8308-RDB-ND and
MPC8313E-RDBC-ND as being available for less than £250 which makes them sub
$300 which is probably the best price I have seen for Power Architecture
reference boards.

Granted, they are still more expensive than a BBB, RPi or something like
that but cheap compared to >$2,000 reference boards we used to have to buy
in the old days!

-Andy



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Re: [yocto] any rumblings about a newer YP powerpc reference board than mpc8315e-rdb?

[Bruce Ashfield]

On Fri, Mar 3, 2017 at 9:07 AM, Robert P. J. Day 
wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Mar 2017, Andy Pont wrote:
>
> > Ross Burton wrote...
> >
> > >> it seems of limited value for YP to have a powerpc reference board,
> > >> mpc8315e-rdb, that is essentially impossible to procure. is there any
> > >> effort being made to look around for a newer powerpc reference board
> > >> that people could actually buy?
> > >
> > >Do you have any suggestions?
> >
> > If we are being strictly pedantic then is isn't PowerPC (at least in
> > the world that is Freescale / NXP / Whoever they are this week).
> >
> > I would look at one of the P10xx series QorIQ boards.  Digi-Key list
> > the P1021RDB-PC-ND and P1024RDB-PA-ND as being active parts which
> > are either single or dual e500 cores.
>
>   i would start with the machine definition files in the meta-fsl-ppc
> layer:
>
> http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/meta-fsl-ppc/tree/conf/machine
>
> and see what looks promising. however, IIRC, one of the properties of
> a YP reference board is that it shouldn't be stupid, crazy expensive,
> no? so anything climbing above $500 (USD) might not be an option.
>

Correct. Being around 100 bucks USD was always our bar in the past, since
even if you can buy one .. not being able to afford it doesn't help.

Not that we expect a lot of people are out buying these reference boards,
but even companies were balking at buying expensive options ... so forget
individuals ever getting one.

Bruce


> people used to spending $60 for a beaglebone black might have a
> seizure to suddenly realize they need $500 for a powerpc reference
> board.
>
> rday
>
> --
>
> 
> Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
> http://crashcourse.ca
>
> Twitter:   http://twitter.com/rpjday
> LinkedIn:   http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday
> 
>
> --
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Re: [yocto] any rumblings about a newer YP powerpc reference board than mpc8315e-rdb?

[Andy Pont]

Ross Burton wrote...

>> it seems of limited value for YP to have a powerpc reference board,
>> mpc8315e-rdb, that is essentially impossible to procure. is there any
>> effort being made to look around for a newer powerpc reference board
>> that people could actually buy?
>
>Do you have any suggestions?

If we are being strictly pedantic then is isn't PowerPC (at least in the world 
that is Freescale / NXP / Whoever they are this week).

I would look at one of the P10xx series QorIQ boards.  Digi-Key list the 
P1021RDB-PC-ND and P1024RDB-PA-ND as being active parts which are either single 
or dual e500 cores.

-Andy

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Re: [yocto] any rumblings about a newer YP powerpc reference board than mpc8315e-rdb?

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Fri, 3 Mar 2017, Andy Pont wrote:

> Ross Burton wrote...
>
> >> it seems of limited value for YP to have a powerpc reference board,
> >> mpc8315e-rdb, that is essentially impossible to procure. is there any
> >> effort being made to look around for a newer powerpc reference board
> >> that people could actually buy?
> >
> >Do you have any suggestions?
>
> If we are being strictly pedantic then is isn't PowerPC (at least in
> the world that is Freescale / NXP / Whoever they are this week).
>
> I would look at one of the P10xx series QorIQ boards.  Digi-Key list
> the P1021RDB-PC-ND and P1024RDB-PA-ND as being active parts which
> are either single or dual e500 cores.

  i would start with the machine definition files in the meta-fsl-ppc
layer:

http://git.yoctoproject.org/cgit/cgit.cgi/meta-fsl-ppc/tree/conf/machine

and see what looks promising. however, IIRC, one of the properties of
a YP reference board is that it shouldn't be stupid, crazy expensive,
no? so anything climbing above $500 (USD) might not be an option.
people used to spending $60 for a beaglebone black might have a
seizure to suddenly realize they need $500 for a powerpc reference
board.

rday

-- 


Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
http://crashcourse.ca

Twitter:   http://twitter.com/rpjday
LinkedIn:   http://ca.linkedin.com/in/rpjday


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Re: [yocto] any rumblings about a newer YP powerpc reference board than mpc8315e-rdb?

[Bruce Ashfield]

On 2017-03-03 8:41 AM, Burton, Ross wrote:


On 3 March 2017 at 13:24, Robert P. J. Day > wrote:

  it seems of limited value for YP to have a powerpc reference board,
mpc8315e-rdb, that is essentially impossible to procure. is there any
effort being made to look around for a newer powerpc reference board
that people could actually buy?


Do you have any suggestions?


Indeed.

I've looked, Josh looked at one point, and we even met with various
companies about their upcoming boards.

Nothing has ever panned out, so we stick with the existing reference
BSP.

Assuming we could acquire a new board, I'd be happy to replace the
existing reference.

Bruce



Ross




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Re: [yocto] any rumblings about a newer YP powerpc reference board than mpc8315e-rdb?

[Robert P. J. Day]

On Fri, 3 Mar 2017, Burton, Ross wrote:

> On 3 March 2017 at 13:24, Robert P. J. Day  wrote:
>     it seems of limited value for YP to have a powerpc reference
>   board, mpc8315e-rdb, that is essentially impossible to
>   procure. is there any effort being made to look around for a
>   newer powerpc reference board that people could actually buy?
>
> Do you have any suggestions?

  not at the moment ... perhaps the powerpc or freescale folks can
weigh in. i'm not a powerpc expert, but it does seem pointless to have
a reference board that no one can get.

rday

-- 


Robert P. J. Day Ottawa, Ontario, CANADA
http://crashcourse.ca

Twitter:   http://twitter.com/rpjday
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Re: [yocto] any rumblings about a newer YP powerpc reference board than mpc8315e-rdb?

[Burton, Ross]

On 3 March 2017 at 13:24, Robert P. J. Day  wrote:

>   it seems of limited value for YP to have a powerpc reference board,
> mpc8315e-rdb, that is essentially impossible to procure. is there any
> effort being made to look around for a newer powerpc reference board
> that people could actually buy?
>

Do you have any suggestions?

Ross
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