Re: [Zen] ( Bet With Buddha 西遊記 - YouTube
i thought so edgar...thanks... where have you been lately?..snowed under?..cheers merle Great quote Merle! Edgar On Feb 5, 2013, at 2:42 AM, Merle Lester wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zPqm6ePcOMMfeature=endscreen merle those who know that enough is enough will always have enough ~~ lao tzu
RE: [Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
Joe, br/br/Is this not what I wrote?br/br/Mikebr/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhonebr/
[Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
I don't believe I need to prove anything here, it's the same kind of question that Zen should be proved. If what I said makes some sense good, obviously it did not to you so I would suggest you ignore it. (Unless of course you wish to impose some Zen orthodoxy here, I'm not interested in such games though.) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Joe wrote: Carl, Good to meet you here. Have you had any runs-ins or meetings, yourself, with those folks? I would guess they keep their profiles largely hidden, so maybe it's hard to certain. But have you had indications? Troubles? I'm largely skeptical of their existence, but I honestly have no proof of a negative, and I suppose we can't in fact prove a negative in any area, or arena. Do you think that a person who makes progress in Zen practice, or who awakens, is taken note of by those folks? Is that what you mean in your post? I hope you'll tell us more about that. How do they know? How do they behave once they know? And, I wonder why they care if you've made progress. Is it their game to keep everyone asleep? I can certainly see how that would help their program if they are in fact dastardly folks. But I don't suppose they are awake themselves: people who are awake cannot act in dastardly ways. I'd say it is impossible. Then, Illuminati seems to me to be a fine example of a misnomer, maybe the finest. As I say, I hope you'll tell us more of your thoughts about this. I am thus far a skeptic, but I am open to your actual experiences. As with the UFO-phenomenon, there appear to be many paperback-writers who made a good trade publishing about the Illuminati, but we see next to zero legitimate journalism about Illuminati or about UFOs. But even the most vaprous myths have a clear origin in some aspect of reality, so I wonder how the Illuminati bear upon the doings and proceedings of someone who is making progress in Zen meditation. This is very interesting, and I hope you'll pls. say more. --Joe Carl wrote: The real enemy are not war criminals but the Illuminanti. They are the puppet masters, simple minds are preferable to them. If you make progress you will attract their attention. As has been pointed out the way is not related to conventional morality. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
Carl, Now, now, don't go off all testy, pls. The proof I suggest that would be needed is something I present intellectually as a philosophical challenge, and as a challenge to the experience of a practitioner, not a personal challenge. It's not a test. Just a topic for forum discussion, if you'll pursue it. As a Scientist and Philosopher professionally, I think in terms of making ideas clear, and showing what the difference is when I claim there is a difference. Yes, this is an occupational hazard, but at least it keeps me out of trouble. ;-) I'm also interested in the ANSWER. How *would* you show the difference that you claim exists? Or how do you understand the difference -- if there is any -- to show itself? How may *I* see it? How did you come to see the difference? Like that. That's what I had in mind, Carl. Will you tell us me too about those Illuminati, pls.? As they relate to you, yourself. That would be new information, if you have experience with them. How did they interrupt you when you were making progress, as you wrote? --Joe PS BTW, what's that about orthodoxy? I did not introduce that. Carl wrote: I don't believe I need to prove anything here, it's the same kind of question that Zen should be proved. If what I said makes some sense good, obviously it did not to you so I would suggest you ignore it. (Unless of course you wish to impose some Zen orthodoxy here, I'm not interested in such games though.) Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
Oops, sorry, Carl, The first part of my post is meant for Iain, not you. Sorry, Iain! My confusion. Too many proofs. Carl, the part of my post relevant to you is re-quoted, below, and edited. --Joe Carl, Now, now, don't go off all testy, pls. I don't ask for a proof of the Illuminati's existence, but ask for more info on your interesting statement. Is it based on an experience? Or was it just a joke? Will you tell us about those Illuminati, pls.? As they relate to you, yourself. That would be new information, if you have experience with them. How did they approach you when you were making progress, as you wrote? --Joe PS BTW, what's that about orthodoxy? I did not introduce that. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
As I said I'm not interested in these games, so this subject is closed on my part. If you were genuinely interested in the subject, you would not have this approach of attempting to discredit it publicly and get the group back to discussing your orthodox views of Zen (that you have displayed in other posts). --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Joe wrote: Oops, sorry, Carl, The first part of my post is meant for Iain, not you. Sorry, Iain! My confusion. Too many proofs. Carl, the part of my post relevant to you is re-quoted, below, and edited. --Joe Carl, Now, now, don't go off all testy, pls. I don't ask for a proof of the Illuminati's existence, but ask for more info on your interesting statement. Is it based on an experience? Or was it just a joke? Will you tell us about those Illuminati, pls.? As they relate to you, yourself. That would be new information, if you have experience with them. How did they approach you when you were making progress, as you wrote? --Joe PS BTW, what's that about orthodoxy? I did not introduce that. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
Carl, Your free choice. I'd hoped you'd add to your previous information. --Joe Carl wrote: As I said I'm not interested in these games, so this subject is closed on my part. If you were genuinely interested in the subject, you would not have this approach of attempting to discredit it publicly and get the group back to discussing your orthodox views of Zen (that you have displayed in other posts). Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
...and, Carl, Heterodoxy is fine by me, too. Have at it if that is your ken. I only write about Zen as I know it, which is Zen as it is practiced, and realized. I'm a practitioner. You too? Mostly, I speak about practice and its upshot, and not much about theory. But I'm game for theory, anytime. I know that Madhyamika and Yogacara inform Zen philosophy, to the extent that there is any. Ch'an and Zen is not the Teaching School, as you know. But I'm off topic in this thread, about that. Just a heads-up. They say it doesn't take just one to ruin a forum topic's flow, it takes two. There are 400 here who may also be as interested in your info as I am. Don't -- Please don't -- take an easy-out, and clam-up about the 'Illuminati'. I use the inverted commas until you substantiate something. If it was a joke, fine. Why leave us hanging? Maybe I have a too-serious acceptance of others... . --Joe --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Carl wrote: As I said I'm not interested in these games, so this subject is closed on my part. If you were genuinely interested in the subject, you would not have this approach of attempting to discredit it publicly and get the group back to discussing your orthodox views of Zen (that you have displayed in other posts). Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
Carl,br/br/Paranoid much?br/br/Mike (or is it?...)br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhonebr/
[Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
Mike, Call yourself an 'Illuminati' (or 'Illuminatus', singular), whether true or not, ...and I may feel reason to doubt you (as such). But, please, please!, don't let this doubt of mine overpower your right and ability to let me have it, truthfully, between the eyes. Keep off other areas, though. ;-) With mutual (tender) respect, --Joe ;-) uerusuboyo@... wrote: Carl, Paranoid much? Mike (or is it?... Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
I doubt there are really 400 readers for our energetic debates here. I bet nost of the lurkers are either no mail or else let it pile up unread in numberless email boxes. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Feb 6, 2013 2:09 PM, Joe desert_woodwor...@yahoo.com wrote: ...and, Carl, Heterodoxy is fine by me, too. Have at it if that is your ken. I only write about Zen as I know it, which is Zen as it is practiced, and realized. I'm a practitioner. You too? Mostly, I speak about practice and its upshot, and not much about theory. But I'm game for theory, anytime. I know that Madhyamika and Yogacara inform Zen philosophy, to the extent that there is any. Ch'an and Zen is not the Teaching School, as you know. But I'm off topic in this thread, about that. Just a heads-up. They say it doesn't take just one to ruin a forum topic's flow, it takes two. There are 400 here who may also be as interested in your info as I am. Don't -- Please don't -- take an easy-out, and clam-up about the 'Illuminati'. I use the inverted commas until you substantiate something. If it was a joke, fine. Why leave us hanging? Maybe I have a too-serious acceptance of others... . --Joe --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Carl wrote: As I said I'm not interested in these games, so this subject is closed on my part. If you were genuinely interested in the subject, you would not have this approach of attempting to discredit it publicly and get the group back to discussing your orthodox views of Zen (that you have displayed in other posts). Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
[Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
Howdy, Chris, Be that as dismay... . ;-) --Joe --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Chris Austin-Lane wrote: I doubt there are really 400 readers for our energetic debates here. I bet nost of the lurkers are either no mail or else let it pile up unread in numberless email boxes. Thanks, Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
Chris,br/br/I hope so. We do less damage that way.br/br/Mikebr/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhonebr/
RE: [Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhonebr/
Re: [Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
Snort. I have to agree. Our mission is of entertainment not saving sentient beings. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Feb 6, 2013 7:16 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Chris, I hope so. We do less damage that way. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone -- * From: * Chris Austin-Lane ch...@austin-lane.net; * To: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals * Sent: * Thu, Feb 7, 2013 2:55:32 AM I doubt there are really 400 readers for our energetic debates here. I bet nost of the lurkers are either no mail or else let it pile up unread in numberless email boxes. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Feb 6, 2013 2:09 PM, Joe desert_woodwor...@yahoo.com wrote: ...and, Carl, Heterodoxy is fine by me, too. Have at it if that is your ken. I only write about Zen as I know it, which is Zen as it is practiced, and realized. I'm a practitioner. You too? Mostly, I speak about practice and its upshot, and not much about theory. But I'm game for theory, anytime. I know that Madhyamika and Yogacara inform Zen philosophy, to the extent that there is any. Ch'an and Zen is not the Teaching School, as you know. But I'm off topic in this thread, about that. Just a heads-up. They say it doesn't take just one to ruin a forum topic's flow, it takes two. There are 400 here who may also be as interested in your info as I am. Don't -- Please don't -- take an easy-out, and clam-up about the 'Illuminati'. I use the inverted commas until you substantiate something. If it was a joke, fine. Why leave us hanging? Maybe I have a too-serious acceptance of others... . --Joe --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Carl wrote: As I said I'm not interested in these games, so this subject is closed on my part. If you were genuinely interested in the subject, you would not have this approach of attempting to discredit it publicly and get the group back to discussing your orthodox views of Zen (that you have displayed in other posts). Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
[Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
Mike, Just wait a minute; wait a MINUTE!! A Minute? The more damage, the better. No? Or was I just born in some other strange universe? I hope not. I like this Zen-Practice universe jus' fine. I repeat, jus' fine. Fine. Hoping you and yours are well, --Joe --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, uerusuboyo@... wrote: Chris, I hope so. We do less damage that way. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
Now, now, Mike. Let's not make too light of something like Jewry. While I was at Columbia in New York City in College during 1970-74, many campus announcements of presentations, etc., had to do with Jewry, but my eyes always first interpreted: Jewelry. My error!!, Just as, later, some announcements had to do with Fiber Arts, and I, as a Scientist, thought it had something to do with Fiber Optics. But, what an environment for learning. I thank our lucky stars. Says this retired Observational Astronomer. But, lotta life left in me. ;-) Yours; and, all yours, Joe / Arizona. --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, uerusuboyo@... wrote: br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhonebr/ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
Moik (Mike), As a mathematician, it's been embarrassing to me to see the progression of lovely mathematical icons cut into the cereal grains of the UK, and citizens taking the designs as odd, and as if of far-out origin. Who-dunnit? It's clear that 100% of the designs are due to current-day mathematical fixations, or emphases. Earthly bets. Grad Students, I bet. Those who don't see this are not as Earthly as we could hope. But most people have dropped out of School, whether they admit it or not. Or, were never in school. Or left Math behind at age 18. Alas, and alack; patterns cut in Cereal Grain crops are done for the confusion of some _homo sapiens_, by other _Homo Sapiens_, hoping you'll think it's by Others. Phooey. Not so easily amused. But, nice Math! Kudos. Love it. --Joe --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, uerusuboyo@... wrote: Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Zen] Our Planet
- Sobering and heart-wrenching. The title of the video is misleading. It doesn't hold the impact of the message one is about to see. http://www.youtube.com/embed/nGeXdv-uPaw
Re: [Zen] Acting against seeming inevitability -- WAS: Re: war criminals
folks : let's not get too up ourselves..the greatest zen practitioners are those who know silence is golden..merle Mike, Yes, the way some people talk sometimes, you'd think Zen has nothing to do with ANYTHING... which is not the case (I don't mean you, Mike!). Some say that precepts have nothing to do with Zen; that would be a fair judgement, if these people knew Zen intimately. Precepts, however, have everything to do with Zen PRACTICE. But Zen Practice is an endeavor or engagement that escapes through the cracks in the mere-intellectual's mind who thinks he/she knows about Zen, and who, hence, does not know it intimately (which is the only way to know it). I'd say that for someone wishing to awaken for the first time, Precepts are a good tool to keep close to, and _vice versa_. Just as Zazen is. And our many other practices. And for someone wishing to remain awake, Precepts are just as important. As we all find out! In some schools, Precepts are practiced LAST, after a mature student has passed through the entire Koan curriculum consisting of the koans of the Mumonkan, Blue Cliff Record, Book of Serenity, AND the Nanto or hard koans; some also add the Warrior koans. Precepts are not trifling, nor to be trifled with, in general. Precepts are tools for Awakening. No wonder some don't recognize them! Precepts are simply the behavior of a Buddha. We know that there are some poseurs who claim to have nothing to do with them because the same poseurs in fact have nothing to do with Practice (!), and, demonstrably, neither have they ever awakened (and time is shorter, now, all the time...). No skin off our teeth! But, we rail against the blatherings of such slackers -- self-satisfied, merely intellectual ego-maniacs, slanderers, and rumor-mongers -- here, for the damage they may do to practitioners who are nowadays beginning, or hearing about Precepts for the first, second, or third time, say, before beginning a formal or fundamental practice at home or elsewhere, which is undertaken as more than a lark. Recriminations such as this may not be popular; I think that's natural, and good. --Joe uerusuboyo@... wrote: Edgar, You're quite correct. Day visitors and temple sight-seers don't need to take any precepts as long as they don't disturb the serious meditators ; ) Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone Edgar wrote: More true believer orthodox crap from Joe! Zen has nothing to do with taking any precepts.
Re: [Zen] ( Bet With Buddha 西�記 - YouTube
it's not always about the dollar joe!..merle Edgar, Not *too* bad... . Old Lao obviously was not the Tax Man. And if he had been, he would have been fired. ;-) --Joe Edgar Owen wrote: Great quote Merle! Merle Lester wrote: those who know that enough is enough will always have enough ~~ lao tzu
