Re: [Zen] Re: Another Cartoon - But This Time Not Zen-Related
Joe, And Genghis Khan butchered people by the thousands... -- but it was totally OK because he made thousands more by impregnating thousands of women... :-) Edgar On Jun 9, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Joe wrote: Bill!, Fine enough. But trees have always been Friends. My ex- also used to sleep up in trees when she was a child. Remarkable: it could have gone badly! Even though I butcher trees to make things for Buddhist temples and teachers, I have trees as friends, everywhere. North and South. But I plant trees assiduously to make up for what I cull. It's not just Buddhist temples and teachers who like what I do / make, it should also be everybody. The carbon in my sticks, etc., is sequestered, until somebody thinks to burn these artifacts. Some of my things may last hundreds of years, my vanity, prejudice, hope, and expectation suspects / expects. I sign my stuff. But no one knows me. Nor, will know me in 300 years. Unless someone speaks up. No comment about drugs. Done; done. Did I say, done? Done. Trees are blameless. Only drug-takers implicate trees, in any funny ways. Not wood-butchers. --Joe Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: But it is related to a recent thread concerning drug usage. Anyway I thought this one was just too good not to share...
[Zen] Re: Another Cartoon - But This Time Not Zen-Related
Edgar, Okay...this was a good one...I'll give you credit for that... ;) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Joe, And Genghis Khan butchered people by the thousands... -- but it was totally OK because he made thousands more by impregnating thousands of women... :-) Edgar On Jun 9, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Joe wrote: Bill!, Fine enough. But trees have always been Friends. My ex- also used to sleep up in trees when she was a child. Remarkable: it could have gone badly! Even though I butcher trees to make things for Buddhist temples and teachers, I have trees as friends, everywhere. North and South. But I plant trees assiduously to make up for what I cull. It's not just Buddhist temples and teachers who like what I do / make, it should also be everybody. The carbon in my sticks, etc., is sequestered, until somebody thinks to burn these artifacts. Some of my things may last hundreds of years, my vanity, prejudice, hope, and expectation suspects / expects. I sign my stuff. But no one knows me. Nor, will know me in 300 years. Unless someone speaks up. No comment about drugs. Done; done. Did I say, done? Done. Trees are blameless. Only drug-takers implicate trees, in any funny ways. Not wood-butchers. --Joe Bill! BillSmart@ wrote: But it is related to a recent thread concerning drug usage. Anyway I thought this one was just too good not to share... Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Re: The Book of Mirdad
Bill, There is only one answer or solution to ALL koans. And that is Buddha Nature. So all one has to do in response to any koan is simply to point to anything at all and convincingly bring attention to its Buddha Nature. But as I say repeatedly anything at all can be a koan to get you to that realization. Reality itself is ultimately the ONLY koan even in its seemingly most insignificant aspect... Edgar On Jun 9, 2013, at 9:17 PM, Bill! wrote: Edgar, I agree with Joe here. All the 'breakthrough' koans (the first ones that are specifically designed to induce kensho (first experience of Buddha Nature)require a demonstration rather than an explanation. For example my first koan was Joshu's MU and my teacher's request was to BRING me Mu and SHOW me Mu - certainly not explain what Joshu's answer 'Mu' means. In later koans, although still requiring actions or demonstrations, there is some room for intellectual discussions with your teacher, although these discussions are usually focused on just what the koan is specifically designed to accomplish rather than a discussion on the meaning of the actual content. This has been my experience with koan study anyway, and this was with two different zen masters - although admittedly the two zen masters were from the same 'school' and they themselves had a teacher:student relationship at one time. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Joe desert_woodworker@... wrote: Edgar, If YOU take things literally, then that's what YOU do. Anyone who passes the koan What is the sound of One Hand?, makes a demonstration. It's easy, at that time. After that work. What are you all hung up about? Edgar, note, too: my practice has been not too much on koans; after a few, my teacher saw the road ahead for me, and that was not koans. Either, no need, or no aptitude. From my point of view, after a point, it was: No need for gumdrops along the way. Yet, all Hail! for folks who go on this way longer that I did. I took my Doctor's prescription and switched modalities. Hail! I'm lucky to have had such a teacher. May you be lucky in this way, in some life. --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@ wrote: Joe, The point of my reply to your post both of which you obsessively snipped is this Your post went against even the view of koans you are supposed to believe in as an orthodox zennist. You and Bill claim that koans have no solution but are to be discarded in a satori. But instead your post claimed that you not only understood the sound of one hand but could produce it yourself. Thus you don't even understand the naive view of koans Bill does... You are not supposed to take the koan to heart as if it actually expressed something but to discard it... Even Bill knows that...
[Zen] Not Zen-
edgar..what the hell does this mean?...it's idiotic!..merl And Genghis Khan butchered people by the thousands... -- but it was totally OK because he made thousands more by impregnating thousands of women... :-) Edgar On Jun 9, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Joe wrote: Bill!, Fine enough. But trees have always been Friends. My ex- also used to sleep up in trees when she was a child. Remarkable: it could have gone badly! Even though I butcher trees to make things for Buddhist temples and teachers, I have trees as friends, everywhere. North and South. But I plant trees assiduously to make up for what I cull. It's not just Buddhist temples and teachers who like what I do / make, it should also be everybody. The carbon in my sticks, etc., is sequestered, until somebody thinks to burn these artifacts. Some of my things may last hundreds of years, my vanity, prejudice, hope, and expectation suspects / expects. I sign my stuff. But no one knows me. Nor, will know me in 300 years. Unless someone speaks up. No comment about drugs. Done; done. Did I say, done? Done. Trees are blameless. Only drug-takers implicate trees, in any funny ways. Not wood-butchers. --Joe Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: But it is related to a recent thread concerning drug usage. Anyway I thought this one was just too good not to share...
[Zen] Not Zen-
meaning what bill?..merle Edgar, Okay...this was a good one...I'll give you credit for that... ;) --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Joe, And Genghis Khan butchered people by the thousands... -- but it was totally OK because he made thousands more by impregnating thousands of women... :-) Edgar On Jun 9, 2013, at 10:09 PM, Joe wrote: Bill!, Fine enough. But trees have always been Friends. My ex- also used to sleep up in trees when she was a child. Remarkable: it could have gone badly! Even though I butcher trees to make things for Buddhist temples and teachers, I have trees as friends, everywhere. North and South. But I plant trees assiduously to make up for what I cull. It's not just Buddhist temples and teachers who like what I do / make, it should also be everybody. The carbon in my sticks, etc., is sequestered, until somebody thinks to burn these artifacts. Some of my things may last hundreds of years, my vanity, prejudice, hope, and expectation suspects / expects. I sign my stuff. But no one knows me. Nor, will know me in 300 years. Unless someone speaks up. No comment about drugs. Done; done. Did I say, done? Done. Trees are blameless. Only drug-takers implicate trees, in any funny ways. Not wood-butchers. --Joe Bill! BillSmart@ wrote: But it is related to a recent thread concerning drug usage. Anyway I thought this one was just too good not to share...
[Zen] koan
the koan..is it not the eureka moment?..merle Edgar, I agree with Joe here. All the 'breakthrough' koans (the first ones that are specifically designed to induce kensho (first experience of Buddha Nature)require a demonstration rather than an explanation. For example my first koan was Joshu's MU and my teacher's request was to BRING me Mu and SHOW me Mu - certainly not explain what Joshu's answer 'Mu' means. In later koans, although still requiring actions or demonstrations, there is some room for intellectual discussions with your teacher, although these discussions are usually focused on just what the koan is specifically designed to accomplish rather than a discussion on the meaning of the actual content. This has been my experience with koan study anyway, and this was with two different zen masters - although admittedly the two zen masters were from the same 'school' and they themselves had a teacher:student relationship at one time. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Joe desert_woodworker@... wrote: Edgar, If YOU take things literally, then that's what YOU do. Anyone who passes the koan What is the sound of One Hand?, makes a demonstration. It's easy, at that time. After that work. What are you all hung up about? Edgar, note, too: my practice has been not too much on koans; after a few, my teacher saw the road ahead for me, and that was not koans. Either, no need, or no aptitude. From my point of view, after a point, it was: No need for gumdrops along the way. Yet, all Hail! for folks who go on this way longer that I did. I took my Doctor's prescription and switched modalities. Hail! I'm lucky to have had such a teacher. May you be lucky in this way, in some life. --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@ wrote: Joe, The point of my reply to your post both of which you obsessively snipped is this Your post went against even the view of koans you are supposed to believe in as an orthodox zennist. You and Bill claim that koans have no solution but are to be discarded in a satori. But instead your post claimed that you not only understood the sound of one hand but could produce it yourself. Thus you don't even understand the naive view of koans Bill does... You are not supposed to take the koan to heart as if it actually expressed something but to discard it... Even Bill knows that...
Re: [Zen] Another Cartoon - But This Time Not Zen-Related
have you been there bill?..merle ...Bill!
Re: [Zen] Re: question time
hippy hippy shake..joe..merle Mike, Merle, A shedding of dirty clothes, the Old Man used to say; even down to your socks. He talked about awakening as being nakedness. Having nothing. Wu (Chin.). Mu (Japanese). How true. But, no embarrassment! This is original Human nakedness. Our original inheritance. And, no one to see. One Mind ...if THAT many. No Mind. Well... . What's for dinner? --Joe uerusuboyo@... wrote: Merle, I think you might need a certain amount of faith when you first read this, but only if you haven't experienced it. What you'll find from a diligent practice of meditation is that awakening is a process of stripping down (losing attachments, dropping ideas and concepts of 'self' and soul etc.), rather than an acquisition and accretion of knowledge.
[Zen] trees
trees are my friends too joe..merle Bill!, Fine enough. But trees have always been Friends. My ex- also used to sleep up in trees when she was a child. Remarkable: it could have gone badly! Even though I butcher trees to make things for Buddhist temples and teachers, I have trees as friends, everywhere. North and South. But I plant trees assiduously to make up for what I cull. It's not just Buddhist temples and teachers who like what I do / make, it should also be everybody. The carbon in my sticks, etc., is sequestered, until somebody thinks to burn these artifacts. Some of my things may last hundreds of years, my vanity, prejudice, hope, and expectation suspects / expects. I sign my stuff. But no one knows me. Nor, will know me in 300 years. Unless someone speaks up. No comment about drugs. Done; done. Did I say, done? Done. Trees are blameless. Only drug-takers implicate trees, in any funny ways. Not wood-butchers. --Joe Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: But it is related to a recent thread concerning drug usage. Anyway I thought this one was just too good not to share...
[Zen] the sponge mind
ah..no wiring..just a mass of a sponge...?..merle Merle, There is no wiring. Don't believe a word of that hooey/horse-hockey. If you awaken, you may find that beliefs and illusions have all dropped. Where are they? They are gone. Like a clear sky. What there is, instead, is a hearty participation in Life, WITH all of Life. There's no substitute for this! Please trust a distant Cousin! Only 8000 miles close/near (and I talk to such stations every day on the Ham radio, on 10-meters, about 28.420 MHz). --Joe Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote: ok..that's fine..however according to some experts some of us are hard wired to believe in god..
[Zen] awake
awake awaken be awake...all awake and forever.. as the crow flies so doeth the sea gull... the eagle the bird of paradise... remains standing on the forest floor..all dressed up with no where to go.. merle Don't confuse crazy with compassionate! ;-) I know you don't. I've gotten swift swats from Sheng Yen on occasion, in Interview (dokusan). Sometimes to compliment, and sometimes to chastise, but usually to encourage. You know how it goes. Or I hope so. Especially with a teacher from an Old Country, often a physical communication is very meaningful, and ...lasting. My teacher was not proficient in English, for example. Often, we used sign language, together. I once had an entire interview with him where I used a pocket full of stones and moved them around on the floor, to ask him a question! His answer was meaningful and decisive. It made the 7-day retreat, for me (another minor awakening, after the first big one). I stay, lovingly, in that lineage. They're training me in Florida and Taiwan to act as a lay, un-transmitted Dharma Teacher, especially in the details of holding 7-day Ch'an retreat, so important to our practice. I won't let them down. Shih Fu is gone, but not really. I will never let the Old Man down. He knew this. Sheng Yen was Chinese, but, BTW, in Japan, Roshi just means Old Man. He never seemed old to me, not even when he was old. Blessings to you and the family. You ARE blessed. Me, I just have fur-kids: Cats! Please take great care of yourself and the fam.! --Joe Chris Austin-Lane chris@... wrote: I've never heard you describe your lineage as crazy, Joe. My practise at the moment - reading a Percy Jackson book to a very tired 8.5 year old who is fighting the bed time ritual with upset and so on.
[Zen] G
irrelevant..whether you believe in g or not you don't know because it is not a fact to figure out and never will be...merle Bill, Get your Gods straight. It was Helios or Apollo, depending on the culture, who drove the chariot of the sun across the sky, not Mercury... Jeez, no wonder you can't understand Zen! :-) Edgar On Jun 9, 2013, at 6:56 AM, Bill! wrote: Merle, Saying some of us are hard wired to believe in god might be true, but I think it would be better stated that 'we all as humans are wired insufficiently to understand everything we perceive' (with the possible exception of Edgar). IMO what we tend to do is make up explanations for things we can't understand. A good example is 'god'. He/She is a handy explanation for all things mysterious and explainable. These explanations usually take on the forms we know, like the early Greeks trying to explain the rising, transverse of the sky and setting of the sun every day by creating the explanation of a god named Mercury who drove his golden chariot across the sky. We want to 'understand' why there seems to be 'good' and 'bad', and very ardently want to learn how we can avoid 'bad' things, how we can control our lives. Believe in a god is a good way to approach this and a very comforting belief. Religions invent gods to explain these things. Science uses logic and makes promises that these things now not understood CAN be understood, and will be some day. Zen accepts that there are things that are just unknowable, things we as humans just cannot understand. I say we cannot understand everything because our understanding is limited to the logic and rationality our intellect provides us. I believe we must accept this and not REJECT our intellect but realize it has its limits and use if accordingly. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:  ok..that's fine..however according to some experts some of us are hard wired to believe in god.. i maybe one of those..so what choice does one have..and god is god is god.. merle  Merle, Which god? The Christian one? Zeus? Allah? Krishna? Odin? Even if you pinpoint which god (The Big Daddy Creator) there is absolutely no evidence to believe in him or even make him necessary. I see, feel, smell, taste and hear reality. Take away the I and what more do you need? Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiitpom@...; To: uerusuboyo@... uerusuboyo@...; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:31:19 AM  mike..god??? why doubts?..merle Merle, i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the other? being an example :yes... and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best Asked and answered!! Mike Ps there are more poets and philosophers in the fox-holes than you would imagine. I've seen death while serving and it ain't pretty. This is partly what spurs me to practice so that when my time comes I will handle it with peace and compassion. I don't think I'd get this from a belief in a god because there would be too many doubts. Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiitpom@...; To: uerusuboyo@... uerusuboyo@...; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:33:57 AM  hi mike.. great to hear from you..you are an excellent teacher... do you teach?..so patient kind and caring and enthusiastic..  i appreciate this very much..and you have awareness and great insight.. i can't believe you are a military person..have you actually ever killed any one...  or is that a stupid question? yes i know the prayer and i know the power of one... you are so so right..i am very christian ...i began going to a christian church when i was 7 because i wanted to...i did bible classes by correspondence  (as well unknown to my parents)..i won prizes for bible study..i love the teachings of christ..i love the story of christ..  i will say that christ to would ask you to experience  for yourself... in many respects all religions are very similar..they get f 'over by those in the power seat and people get manipulated... if we all followed the teachings of christ the world would be a good place.. there is enough suffering being alive and human without the wretched behaviour of humans... so this is the stuff i cannot understand..i sit here and can see the suffering that humans create because they are not aware... selfish and greedy with reptilian brains... how the hell can i change this... i am aware... i try to follow the 10 golden rules.. and am totally dumbfounded and always have been by folk who pay no heed to the 10 golden rules... you say see reality as it is..and as i see it it is so so need of
[Zen] past life
joe was a hairdresser in his past life..snipping was his trade...merle Joe, The point of my reply to your post both of which you obsessively snipped is this Your post went against even the view of koans you are supposed to believe in as an orthodox zennist. You and Bill claim that koans have no solution but are to be discarded in a satori. But instead your post claimed that you not only understood the sound of one hand but could produce it yourself. Thus you don't even understand the naive view of koans Bill does... You are not supposed to take the koan to heart as if it actually expressed something but to discard it... Even Bill knows that... Edgar On Jun 8, 2013, at 10:30 PM, Joe wrote: Edgar, Well, that's IT (that DOES it). You are OFF my Christmas Card list! ;-) Humbug right back, Your'n truly, -- Hose-B Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Joe, Bah! Humbug! Edgar
[Zen] to agree or not to agree
agreement is not necessarily awakening...merle Merle, That would be immaterial; but, go ahead and see; I don't mind. You pay attention for both of us -- you and me!, i.e. -- please. On this score, there is no doubt anywhere, ...and it's a big universe. See if Bill! agrees, and Mike, and Chris. And Subhana, Roshi. And John Tarrant Roshi. In your neck of the woods. Etc. --Joe Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote: joe... right joe..i get the picture! ..does edgar agree?..merle Merle, Don't bother continuing this. Continue with your Practice. See a Teacher as you are able. Everything depends on that.
[Zen] G
g ain't logic... so what?...merle Merle, Saying some of us are hard wired to believe in god might be true, but I think it would be better stated that 'we all as humans are wired insufficiently to understand everything we perceive' (with the possible exception of Edgar). IMO what we tend to do is make up explanations for things we can't understand. A good example is 'god'. He/She is a handy explanation for all things mysterious and explainable. These explanations usually take on the forms we know, like the early Greeks trying to explain the rising, transverse of the sky and setting of the sun every day by creating the explanation of a god named Mercury who drove his golden chariot across the sky. We want to 'understand' why there seems to be 'good' and 'bad', and very ardently want to learn how we can avoid 'bad' things, how we can control our lives. Believe in a god is a good way to approach this and a very comforting belief. Religions invent gods to explain these things. Science uses logic and makes promises that these things now not understood CAN be understood, and will be some day. Zen accepts that there are things that are just unknowable, things we as humans just cannot understand. I say we cannot understand everything because our understanding is limited to the logic and rationality our intellect provides us. I believe we must accept this and not REJECT our intellect but realize it has its limits and use if accordingly. ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote:  ok..that's fine..however according to some experts some of us are hard wired to believe in god.. i maybe one of those..so what choice does one have..and god is god is god.. merle  Merle, Which god? The Christian one? Zeus? Allah? Krishna? Odin? Even if you pinpoint which god (The Big Daddy Creator) there is absolutely no evidence to believe in him or even make him necessary. I see, feel, smell, taste and hear reality. Take away the I and what more do you need? Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiitpom@...; To: uerusuboyo@... uerusuboyo@...; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:31:19 AM  mike..god??? why doubts?..merle Merle, i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the other? being an example :yes... and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best Asked and answered!! Mike Ps there are more poets and philosophers in the fox-holes than you would imagine. I've seen death while serving and it ain't pretty. This is partly what spurs me to practice so that when my time comes I will handle it with peace and compassion. I don't think I'd get this from a belief in a god because there would be too many doubts. Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiitpom@...; To: uerusuboyo@... uerusuboyo@...; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:33:57 AM  hi mike.. great to hear from you..you are an excellent teacher... do you teach?..so patient kind and caring and enthusiastic..  i appreciate this very much..and you have awareness and great insight.. i can't believe you are a military person..have you actually ever killed any one...  or is that a stupid question? yes i know the prayer and i know the power of one... you are so so right..i am very christian ...i began going to a christian church when i was 7 because i wanted to...i did bible classes by correspondence  (as well unknown to my parents)..i won prizes for bible study..i love the teachings of christ..i love the story of christ..  i will say that christ to would ask you to experience  for yourself... in many respects all religions are very similar..they get f 'over by those in the power seat and people get manipulated... if we all followed the teachings of christ the world would be a good place.. there is enough suffering being alive and human without the wretched behaviour of humans... so this is the stuff i cannot understand..i sit here and can see the suffering that humans create because they are not aware... selfish and greedy with reptilian brains... how the hell can i change this... i am aware... i try to follow the 10 golden rules.. and am totally dumbfounded and always have been by folk who pay no heed to the 10 golden rules... you say see reality as it is..and as i see it it is so so need of repair..for us to make a paradise on earth we all need to breathe the breath.easier said than done... what do we do with those folk who will not listen, and never learn.. those who are causing chaos and devastation to others?... in my time i have  been crucified in a way for sticking to what i believe to be the truth...Â
[Zen] G
g... and you are no wiser saying it's not true..merle Merle, A belief in a god could well be beneficial and even advantageous for evolutionary survival, but that still doesn't make it true. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 7:21:50 AM ok..that's fine..however according to some experts some of us are hard wired to believe in god.. i maybe one of those..so what choice does one have..and god is god is god.. merle Merle, Which god? The Christian one? Zeus? Allah? Krishna? Odin? Even if you pinpoint which god (The Big Daddy Creator) there is absolutely no evidence to believe in him or even make him necessary. I see, feel, smell, taste and hear reality. Take away the I and what more do you need? Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Sun, Jun 9, 2013 5:31:19 AM mike..god??? why doubts?..merle Merle, i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the other? being an example :yes... and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best Asked and answered!! Mike Ps there are more poets and philosophers in the fox-holes than you would imagine. I've seen death while serving and it ain't pretty. This is partly what spurs me to practice so that when my time comes I will handle it with peace and compassion. I don't think I'd get this from a belief in a god because there would be too many doubts. Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com; To: uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk; Subject: Re: Karma..many thanks Sent: Fri, Jun 7, 2013 4:33:57 AM hi mike.. great to hear from you..you are an excellent teacher... do you teach?..so patient kind and caring and enthusiastic.. i appreciate this very much..and you have awareness and great insight.. i can't believe you are a military person..have you actually ever killed any one... or is that a stupid question? yes i know the prayer and i know the power of one... you are so so right..i am very christian ...i began going to a christian church when i was 7 because i wanted to...i did bible classes by correspondence (as well unknown to my parents)..i won prizes for bible study..i love the teachings of christ..i love the story of christ.. i will say that christ to would ask you to experience for yourself... in many respects all religions are very similar..they get f 'over by those in the power seat and people get manipulated... if we all followed the teachings of christ the world would be a good place.. there is enough suffering being alive and human without the wretched behaviour of humans... so this is the stuff i cannot understand..i sit here and can see the suffering that humans create because they are not aware... selfish and greedy with reptilian brains... how the hell can i change this... i am aware... i try to follow the 10 golden rules.. and am totally dumbfounded and always have been by folk who pay no heed to the 10 golden rules... you say see reality as it is..and as i see it it is so so need of repair..for us to make a paradise on earth we all need to breathe the breath.easier said than done... what do we do with those folk who will not listen, and never learn.. those who are causing chaos and devastation to others?... in my time i have been crucified in a way for sticking to what i believe to be the truth... however i'm not planning to be walk over hot coals anytime soon so to speak... i see what you are saying:...however tell me tell me..how do we change the other? being an example :yes... and i suspect that is all we can really do and hope for the best thank you for the time you have taken out to write your thoughts to me... yes you are a breath of fresh air in the forum and i appreciate your posts always! take care merle Hi! Exactly, it is simple! (yet so difficult to put into practice). We have to workout our own liberation from suffering before we can truly help anyone else. I'm sure you must have heard of the Serenity Prayer: God grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change; courage to change the things I can; and wisdom to know the difference. By changing how we perceive external events we change how we suffer. Then all our thoughts and actions come from Compassion (not pity!). We change how we deal with people around us and hopefully serve as an inspiration for them to also change. You've heard of the Power of One? But first *we* have to accept the responsibility of our own actions and not delegate the responsibility
RE: [Zen] G
Merle,br/br/Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. It's up to those who make an assertion of fact (that there is a personal, creator god) who have to prove it. It's impossible to prove a negative. For example, I also can't prove there are no leprechauns. br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] to agree or not to agree
You are on the top of a tree, hanging on by your teeth. Someone comes by and asks if they should get a teacher. If.you answer you will fall. If you do not answer, they will not find the way. What do you do? Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 10, 2013 8:35 PM, Merle Lester merlewiit...@yahoo.com wrote: agreement is not necessarily awakening...merle Merle, That would be immaterial; but, go ahead and see; I don't mind. You pay attention for both of us -- you and me!, i.e. -- please. On this score, there is no doubt anywhere, ...and it's a big universe. See if Bill! agrees, and Mike, and Chris. And Subhana, Roshi. And John Tarrant Roshi. In your neck of the woods. Etc. --Joe Merle Lester merlewiitpom@... wrote: joe... right joe..i get the picture! ..does edgar agree?..merle Merle, Don't bother continuing this. Continue with your Practice. See a Teacher as you are able. Everything depends on that.
