Re: [Zen] (unknown)

[Kristopher Grey]

Yes Merle, and there is a great variety in behaviors and capabilities. 
Being on the spectrum myself, be assured I was not being glib or 
unthinking with that suggestion. It was from the heart. Also, Suresh is 
more than capable of catching the intent of my suggestion and 
determining what his child is or is not capable of, with support of others.


KG

On 8/23/2013 7:45 PM, Merle Lester wrote:


KG ..have you ever been in contact with an autistic kiddy?...merle

Perhaps you could buy the child a small parrot to care for and train...

KG


On 8/22/2013 10:19 AM, varam...@gmail.com  
wrote:

> Dear sirs,
>
> Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. 
I become very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least 
he used to parrot what we say and for his name, he will say his name.

>
> For last one month he has stopped talking and all his needs are by 
just indication or some sound. His schools and therapist complaint to 
us but can't do by them selves.

>
> He hit me first, that instigated my anger and I wanted to show my 
anger controlled expecting at least a word to say daddy stop, but he 
did not. I have holding for than 20 minutes, but all the time he cried 
but no word came out of his mouth.

>
> I am pained for not speaking and also pained because unnecessarily I 
have tortured him.

>
> I have asked forgiveness from him, but still he looks at me 
suspicious whether his father really changed or just another 
opportunity to beat him.

>
> I asked forgiveness to god, but still my pain not gone and hence 
this confession to this group.

>
> Pray god for my younger son to speak soon.
>
> I believe in prayers, and group prayer for one cause can do wonders.
>
> What ever I will achieve in any field will not give me satisfaction 
unless my children become normal. Especially elder son getting better, 
but only worried about younger son.

>
> Please pray.
>
>
> Suresh
>
> Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
>
> 
>
> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or 
are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

>
>
>





Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or 
are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links



zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com 

[Zen] (unknown)

[Bill!]

PBS,

I could not say I have specifically experienced that; but during shikantaza I 
have experience that later I could not confidently tell you whether the 
experience was sound, or sight, or feeling.  There does not seem to be a 
distinction during the experience.

But these don't include thoughts..Bill!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "pandabananasock"  wrote:
>
> Has anyone here experienced hearing their mind aloud?  I mean really HEARING, 
> not thoughts.
>






Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

[Merle Lester]

KG ..have you ever been in contact with an autistic kiddy?...merle

Perhaps you could buy the child a small parrot to care for and train...

KG


On 8/22/2013 10:19 AM, varam...@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear sirs,
>
> Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. I become 
> very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least he used to 
> parrot what we say and for his name, he will say his name.
>
> For last one month he has stopped talking and all his needs are by just 
> indication or some sound. His schools and therapist complaint to us but can't 
> do by them selves.
>
> He hit me first, that instigated my anger and I wanted to show my anger 
> controlled expecting at least a word to say daddy stop, but he did not. I 
> have holding for than 20 minutes, but all the time he cried but no word came 
> out of his mouth.
>
> I am pained for not speaking and also pained because unnecessarily I have 
> tortured him.
>
> I have asked forgiveness from him, but still he looks at me suspicious 
> whether his father really changed or just another opportunity to beat him.
>
> I asked forgiveness to god, but still my pain not gone and hence this 
> confession to this group.
>
> Pray god for my younger son to speak soon.
>
> I believe in prayers, and group prayer for one cause can do wonders.
>
> What ever I will achieve in any field will not give me satisfaction unless my 
> children become normal. Especially elder son getting better, but only worried 
> about younger son.
>
> Please pray.
>
>
> Suresh
>
> Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
>
> 
>
> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>





Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

[larry maher]

I have. A few times, a few words. The bridge opened as a reaction to some
extreme things going on in my life. I just thought it was weird or funny at
the time. Still do.


On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 10:05 AM, pandabananasock  wrote:

> **
>
>
> Has anyone here experienced hearing their mind aloud? I mean really
> HEARING, not thoughts.
>
>  
>



-- 
*Larry Maher*

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

[Chris Austin-Lane]

Also, I find it's really helpful as a parent to have other parents to
complain about how unruly, disobedient and exasperating the children are -
it lets out some of the emotional energy of the frustration of parenting in
a safe way, so that when I"m back in the room alone with the stubborn
willful and beloved child I am much more likely to take the "deep breath"
advice and much less likely to act in ways that aren't how I wish to
parent.

It's hard, but hitting rarely conveys the message one wishes to pass on as
a parent, and doesn't really do much in the way of making good adults.  But
the past is past, kids are resilient once we parents get our act together.

--Chris

Thanks,

--Chris
ch...@austin-lane.net
+1-301-270-6524


On Fri, Aug 23, 2013 at 6:23 AM, Kristopher Grey  wrote:

> Perhaps you could buy the child a small parrot to care for and train...
>
> KG
>
>
> On 8/22/2013 10:19 AM, varam...@gmail.com wrote:
> > Dear sirs,
> >
> > Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. I
> become very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least he used
> to parrot what we say and for his name, he will say his name.
> >
> > For last one month he has stopped talking and all his needs are by just
> indication or some sound. His schools and therapist complaint to us but
> can't do by them selves.
> >
> > He hit me first, that instigated my anger and I wanted to show my anger
> controlled expecting at least a word to say daddy stop, but he did not. I
> have holding for than 20 minutes, but all the time he cried but no word
> came out of his mouth.
> >
> > I am pained for not speaking and also pained because unnecessarily I
> have tortured him.
> >
> > I have asked forgiveness from him, but still he looks at me suspicious
> whether his father really changed or just another opportunity to beat him.
> >
> > I asked forgiveness to god, but still my pain not gone and hence this
> confession to this group.
> >
> > Pray god for my younger son to speak soon.
> >
> > I believe in prayers, and group prayer for one cause can do wonders.
> >
> > What ever I will achieve in any field will not give me satisfaction
> unless my children become normal. Especially elder son getting better, but
> only worried about younger son.
> >
> > Please pray.
> >
> >
> > Suresh
> >
> > Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
> >
> > 
> >
> > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> 
>
> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

[Zen] (unknown)

[pandabananasock]

Has anyone here experienced hearing their mind aloud?  I mean really HEARING, 
not thoughts.





Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

[Kristopher Grey]

Perhaps you could buy the child a small parrot to care for and train...

KG


On 8/22/2013 10:19 AM, varam...@gmail.com wrote:
> Dear sirs,
>
> Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. I become 
> very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least he used to 
> parrot what we say and for his name, he will say his name.
>
> For last one month he has stopped talking and all his needs are by just 
> indication or some sound. His schools and therapist complaint to us but can't 
> do by them selves.
>
> He hit me first, that instigated my anger and I wanted to show my anger 
> controlled expecting at least a word to say daddy stop, but he did not. I 
> have holding for than 20 minutes, but all the time he cried but no word came 
> out of his mouth.
>
> I am pained for not speaking and also pained because unnecessarily I have 
> tortured him.
>
> I have asked forgiveness from him, but still he looks at me suspicious 
> whether his father really changed or just another opportunity to beat him.
>
> I asked forgiveness to god, but still my pain not gone and hence this 
> confession to this group.
>
> Pray god for my younger son to speak soon.
>
> I believe in prayers, and group prayer for one cause can do wonders.
>
> What ever I will achieve in any field will not give me satisfaction unless my 
> children become normal. Especially elder son getting better, but only worried 
> about younger son.
>
> Please pray.
>
>
> Suresh
>
> Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
>
> 
>
> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>





Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

[Bill!]

If you beat you wife you must go by the rule of thumb...Bill!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Merle Lester  wrote:
>
> 
> 
>  suresh..it is illegal to hit a child in many  countries... would you hit 
> your wife? try humour...he hit you first... so you hit back to get him to 
> speak?.. i'd go to a doctor..maybe there is a medical condition..you have a 
> computer..do some searching on net... a hug and a cuddle and a tickle might 
> work heaps better than a slap... .i was a high school teacher for 30 years 
> and raised 2 kids and have 2 grandkids 5 and 3...never hit any of them..and 
> never felt like it..i rarely get angry... what makes me quietly angry?  
> ignorance and greed..though even that i see is part  and parcel of the human 
> condition that many folk just can't help themselves..take care..all the 
> best..merle
> 
> 
>   
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, varamtha@ wrote:
> >
> > Dear sirs,
> > 
> > Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. I 
> > become very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least he used 
> > to parrot what we say and for his name, he will say his name.
> > 
> > For last one month he has stopped talking and all his needs are by just 
> > indication or some sound. His schools and therapist complaint to us but 
> > can't do by them selves.
> > 
> > He hit me first, that instigated my anger and I wanted to show my anger 
> > controlled expecting at least a word to say daddy stop, but he did not. I 
> > have holding for than 20 minutes, but all the time he cried but no word 
> > came out of his mouth.
> > 
> > I am pained for not speaking and also pained because unnecessarily I have 
> > tortured him.
> > 
> > I have asked forgiveness from him, but still he looks at me suspicious 
> > whether his father really changed or just another opportunity to beat him.
> > 
> > I asked forgiveness to god, but still my pain not gone and hence this 
> > confession to this group.
> > 
> > Pray god for my younger son to speak soon.
> > 
> > I believe in prayers, and group prayer for one cause can do wonders.
> > 
> > What ever I will achieve in any field will not give me satisfaction unless 
> > my children become normal. Especially elder son getting better, but only 
> > worried about younger son.
> > 
> > Please pray.
> > 
> > 
> > Suresh 
> > 
> > Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
> >
>






Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

[Merle Lester]

 suresh..it is illegal to hit a child in many  countries... would you hit your 
wife? try humour...he hit you first... so you hit back to get him to speak?.. 
i'd go to a doctor..maybe there is a medical condition..you have a computer..do 
some searching on net... a hug and a cuddle and a tickle might work heaps 
better than a slap... .i was a high school teacher for 30 years and raised 2 
kids and have 2 grandkids 5 and 3...never hit any of them..and never felt like 
it..i rarely get angry... what makes me quietly angry?  ignorance and 
greed..though even that i see is part  and parcel of the human condition that 
many folk just can't help themselves..take care..all the best..merle


  



--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, varamtha@... wrote:
>
> Dear sirs,
> 
> Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. I become 
> very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least he used to 
> parrot what we say and for his name, he will say his name.
> 
> For last one month he has stopped talking and all his needs are by just 
> indication or some sound. His schools and therapist complaint to us but can't 
> do by them selves.
> 
> He hit me first, that instigated my anger and I wanted to show my anger 
> controlled expecting at least a word to say daddy stop, but he did not. I 
> have holding for than 20 minutes, but all the time he cried but no word came 
> out of his mouth.
> 
> I am pained for not speaking and also pained because unnecessarily I have 
> tortured him.
> 
> I have asked forgiveness from him, but still he looks at me suspicious 
> whether his father really changed or just another opportunity to beat him.
> 
> I asked forgiveness to god, but still my pain not gone and hence this 
> confession to this group.
> 
> Pray god for my younger son to speak soon.
> 
> I believe in prayers, and group prayer for one cause can do wonders.
> 
> What ever I will achieve in any field will not give me satisfaction unless my 
> children become normal. Especially elder son getting better, but only worried 
> about younger son.
> 
> Please pray.
> 
> 
> Suresh 
> 
> Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
>


 

[Zen] (unknown)

[Bill!]

Suresh,

It's diffincult to know what to say to you in this situation.  I really have no 
idea how hard it is for you to deal with this kind of situation.  I am a parent 
myself and have raised 6 children.  They can be very trying sometimes 
especially as they get older but I have not had to deal with anything like 
you've described.

Just in general I think it's okay to let your child know when they have 
displeased you and even made you angry.  I don't think physical discipline 
works very well but must admit I have used it myself, mainly when I thought my 
child's actions were presenting a danger to themselves or someone or something 
else (like a pet).  But when I used physical discipline it was more to shock 
them, to get their attention then actually hurt them.  I also have found out 
that trying to best a child in a contest of wills is not a good idea.  They can 
be very stubborn sometimes and usually can outlast you, putting you in a 
situation that's not helpful to you or them.

I can only advise you to take some deep breaths, sit zazen if you can - even if 
only for a few minutes at a time, and try to find someway to get some help in 
dealing with your son.  You should put a priority on finding someway to carve 
out some time for yourself to be away from them, even if just for a couple 
hours.  The constant responsibility and challenges it sounds like you're facing 
can wear you down very easily.

The only other thing I can do is wish you luck and hope that you and your sons 
soon find yourself in better times.

...Bill!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, varamtha@... wrote:
>
> Dear sirs,
> 
> Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. I become 
> very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least he used to 
> parrot what we say and for his name, he will say his name.
> 
> For last one month he has stopped talking and all his needs are by just 
> indication or some sound. His schools and therapist complaint to us but can't 
> do by them selves.
> 
> He hit me first, that instigated my anger and I wanted to show my anger 
> controlled expecting at least a word to say daddy stop, but he did not. I 
> have holding for than 20 minutes, but all the time he cried but no word came 
> out of his mouth.
> 
> I am pained for not speaking and also pained because unnecessarily I have 
> tortured him.
> 
> I have asked forgiveness from him, but still he looks at me suspicious 
> whether his father really changed or just another opportunity to beat him.
> 
> I asked forgiveness to god, but still my pain not gone and hence this 
> confession to this group.
> 
> Pray god for my younger son to speak soon.
> 
> I believe in prayers, and group prayer for one cause can do wonders.
> 
> What ever I will achieve in any field will not give me satisfaction unless my 
> children become normal. Especially elder son getting better, but only worried 
> about younger son.
> 
> Please pray.
> 
> 
> Suresh 
> 
> Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
>






Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Fw: [Zen] (unknown)

[Merle Lester]

 silence is golden, suresh...let him be...hug him and show love not anger... 
merle


  
Your shame or anger for your son not speaking is because you are focusing on 
the expectations of others and what they might think. Kids can be enormously 
frustrating and sometimes we strike out. You apologized, that's about all you 
can do for now. Go easy with him. Perhaps he's going through his own little Zen 
experience? Easy does it, brother. It all balances out with love.
The best 



On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 10:19 AM,  wrote:

Dear sirs,
>
>Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. I become 
>very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least he used to parrot 
>what we say and for his name, he will say his name.
>
>For last one month he has stopped talking and all his needs are by just 
>indication or some sound. His schools and therapist complaint to us but can't 
>do by them selves.
>
>He hit me first, that instigated my anger and I wanted to show my anger 
>controlled expecting at least a word to say daddy stop, but he did not. I have 
>holding for than 20 minutes, but all the time he cried but no word came out of 
>his mouth.
>
>I am pained for not speaking and also pained because unnecessarily I have 
>tortured him.
>
>I have asked forgiveness from him, but still he looks at me suspicious whether 
>his father really changed or just another opportunity to beat him.
>
>I asked forgiveness to god, but still my pain not gone and hence this 
>confession to this group.
>
>Pray god for my younger son to speak soon.
>
>I believe in prayers, and group prayer for one cause can do wonders.
>
>What ever I will achieve in any field will not give me satisfaction unless my 
>children become normal. Especially elder son getting better, but only worried 
>about younger son.
>
>Please pray.
>
>
>Suresh
>
>Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
>
>
>
>Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
>reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
Larry Maher 
 

Fw: [Zen] (unknown)

[Merle Lester]

 suresh..take him in your arms and give him a hug..hold him close and tell him 
you love him...merle
Dear sirs,

Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. I become 
very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least he used to parrot 
what we say and for his name, he will say his name.

For last one month he has stopped talking and all his needs are by just 
indication or some sound. His schools and therapist complaint to us but can't 
do by them selves.

He hit me first, that instigated my anger and I wanted to show my anger 
controlled expecting at least a word to say daddy stop, but he did not. I have 
holding for than 20 minutes, but all the time he cried but no word came out of 
his mouth.

I am pained for not speaking and also pained because unnecessarily I have 
tortured him.

I have asked forgiveness from him, but still he looks at me suspicious whether 
his father really changed or just another opportunity to beat him.

I asked forgiveness to god, but still my pain not gone and hence this 
confession to this group.

Pray god for my younger son to speak soon.

I believe in prayers, and group prayer for one cause can do wonders.

What ever I will achieve in any field will not give me satisfaction unless my 
children become normal. Especially elder son getting better, but only worried 
about younger son.

Please pray.


Suresh 

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel



Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links



    http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

[larry maher]

Your shame or anger for your son not speaking is because you are focusing
on the expectations of others and what they might think. Kids can be
enormously frustrating and sometimes we strike out. You apologized, that's
about all you can do for now. Go easy with him. Perhaps he's going through
his own little Zen experience? Easy does it, brother. It all balances out
with love.
The best


On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 10:19 AM,  wrote:

> Dear sirs,
>
> Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. I
> become very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least he used
> to parrot what we say and for his name, he will say his name.
>
> For last one month he has stopped talking and all his needs are by just
> indication or some sound. His schools and therapist complaint to us but
> can't do by them selves.
>
> He hit me first, that instigated my anger and I wanted to show my anger
> controlled expecting at least a word to say daddy stop, but he did not. I
> have holding for than 20 minutes, but all the time he cried but no word
> came out of his mouth.
>
> I am pained for not speaking and also pained because unnecessarily I have
> tortured him.
>
> I have asked forgiveness from him, but still he looks at me suspicious
> whether his father really changed or just another opportunity to beat him.
>
> I asked forgiveness to god, but still my pain not gone and hence this
> confession to this group.
>
> Pray god for my younger son to speak soon.
>
> I believe in prayers, and group prayer for one cause can do wonders.
>
> What ever I will achieve in any field will not give me satisfaction unless
> my children become normal. Especially elder son getting better, but only
> worried about younger son.
>
> Please pray.
>
>
> Suresh
>
> Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel
>
> 
>
> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
*Larry Maher*

[Zen] (unknown)

[varamtha]

Dear sirs,

Today unfortunately I have beaten my younger child for not speaking. I become 
very emotional. He is 7 years old, until last month at least he used to parrot 
what we say and for his name, he will say his name.

For last one month he has stopped talking and all his needs are by just 
indication or some sound. His schools and therapist complaint to us but can't 
do by them selves.

He hit me first, that instigated my anger and I wanted to show my anger 
controlled expecting at least a word to say daddy stop, but he did not. I have 
holding for than 20 minutes, but all the time he cried but no word came out of 
his mouth.

I am pained for not speaking and also pained because unnecessarily I have 
tortured him.

I have asked forgiveness from him, but still he looks at me suspicious whether 
his father really changed or just another opportunity to beat him.

I asked forgiveness to god, but still my pain not gone and hence this 
confession to this group.

Pray god for my younger son to speak soon.

I believe in prayers, and group prayer for one cause can do wonders.

What ever I will achieve in any field will not give me satisfaction unless my 
children become normal. Especially elder son getting better, but only worried 
about younger son.

Please pray.


Suresh 

Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel



Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

[Joe]

William,

Different schools of training.

Meditation is only 1/13th of the practices in formal Zen training ("The 
indispensable one-thirteenth part", I call it.  ;-)  Lucky.).

Vipassana has its own ways.  It is a School, not a practice; let's leave it 
aside.

"Insist" is not my word!

History, intention, and association with other practices makes all these things 
different.  They are not words.

Shikantaza is a tool and a practice.

A Stillson wrench is not a Crescent wrench, but; yes, they are each a type of 
shifting-spanner.  Do you know the proper environment and application in which 
to use each?  And why they developed?  Like that.

Familiarity does not always breed contempt; as often, it breeds skill and 
benefit, and it increases one's value to others.

Well, just talking here, and glad to have the conversation.

--Joe

> William Rintala  wrote:
>
> Thank you Joe.  In looking them up I see very little difference yet you all 
> use 
> the different words.  From the source of all things Wikipedia:
> --- 
> Shikantaza  -  literally means, "nothing but (shikan) precisely (da) 
> sitting 
> (za)." In other words Dōgen means by this, "doing only zazen 
> whole-heartedly" or 
> "single-minded sitting." Shikantaza implies "just sitting", and according to 
> author James Ishmael Ford, "Some trace the root of this word to the 
> pronunciation of the Pāli vipassana, though this is far from certain." 
> Author 
> Steve Hagen describes the Japanese word in four parts: shi means tranquility, 
> kan means awareness, ta means hitting exactly the right spot (not one atom 
> off), 
> and za means to sit. Za is the same as in the word zazen, sitting.
> 
> Zazen -  is just sitting, "opening the hand of thought", that is, 
> suspending 
> all judgmental thinking and letting words, ideas, images and thoughts pass by 
> without getting involved in them
> 
> Vipassana -  is anapanasati, mindfulness of breathing, is used to become 
> aware of the impermanence of everything that exists.
> 
> Why the insistance on different words?






Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

[William Rintala]

Thank you Joe.  In looking them up I see very little difference yet you all use 
the different words.  From the source of all things Wikipedia:
--- 
Shikantaza  -  literally means, "nothing but (shikan) precisely (da) 
sitting 
(za)." In other words Dōgen means by this, "doing only zazen whole-heartedly" 
or 
"single-minded sitting." Shikantaza implies "just sitting", and according to 
author James Ishmael Ford, "Some trace the root of this word to the 
pronunciation of the Pāli vipassana, though this is far from certain." Author 
Steve Hagen describes the Japanese word in four parts: shi means tranquility, 
kan means awareness, ta means hitting exactly the right spot (not one atom 
off), 
and za means to sit. Za is the same as in the word zazen, sitting.

Zazen -  is just sitting, "opening the hand of thought", that is, 
suspending 
all judgmental thinking and letting words, ideas, images and thoughts pass by 
without getting involved in them

Vipassana -  is anapanasati, mindfulness of breathing, is used to become 
aware of the impermanence of everything that exists.

Why the insistance on different words?




From: Joe 
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, April 13, 2013 2:26:43 PM
Subject: [Zen] (unknown)

  


William,

Vipassana is a school and tradition of practice; it's more closely aligned with 
original Buddhist teachings, and ways.

Zazen is a practice of the Zen schools.

Shikantaza is a practice of the Soto lineage of Zen.

--Joe

PS I've seen the Dalai Lama 3 times in New York City; he may be in his "last 
days", so it would be good to see him if you have the chance. I find him a kind 
heart and clear-spoken. 


> William Rintala  wrote:
>
> I'm sure that you have all discussed this before and at the risk of another 
> war 
>
> of words can you tell me what the differences are between Shikantaza, 
> Vipassana 
>
> and Zazen and why you prefer one over the other?  I sit with a group of 
>Tibetan 
>
> Buddhists, I need to ask them what is the name that they have for our 
>meditation 
>
> style.  The leader is a devotee/follower of Pema Chodran. The Dali Lama 
> is visiting our city in a few weeks and she is urging me to come and be 
>present 
>
> for that.  

[Zen] (unknown)

[Joe]

William,

Vipassana is a school and tradition of practice;  it's more closely aligned 
with original Buddhist teachings, and ways.

Zazen is a practice of the Zen schools.

Shikantaza is a practice of the Soto lineage of Zen.

--Joe

PS  I've seen the Dalai Lama 3 times in New York City; he may be in his "last 
days", so it would be good to see him if you have the chance.  I find him a 
kind heart and clear-spoken. 

> William Rintala  wrote:
>
> I'm sure that you have all discussed this before and at the risk of another 
> war 
> of words can you tell me what the differences are between Shikantaza, 
> Vipassana 
> and Zazen and why you prefer one over the other?  I sit with a group of 
> Tibetan 
> Buddhists, I need to ask them what is the name that they have for our 
> meditation 
> style.  The leader is a devotee/follower of Pema Chodran. The Dali Lama 
> is visiting our city in a few weeks and she is urging me to come and be 
> present 
> for that.  






Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Zen] (unknown)

[William Rintala]

I'm sure that you have all discussed this before and at the risk of another war 
of words can you tell me what the differences are between Shikantaza, Vipassana 
and Zazen and why you prefer one over the other?  I sit with a group of Tibetan 
Buddhists, I need to ask them what is the name that they have for our 
meditation 
style.  The leader is a devotee/follower of Pema Chodran. The Dali Lama 
is visiting our city in a few weeks and she is urging me to come and be present 
for that.  






From: Joe 
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sat, April 13, 2013 1:53:57 PM
Subject: [Zen] Re: Introduction

  
Edgar,

Very interesting! Not a CNC program, was it, as for machine-shop milling tool 
control? For a robo-loom, I mean. Or a prgm. to generate patterns to print on a 
printer? I bet it could do colorful work. This is something that might also 
interest Merle. And maybe folks can still run the software? Kudos,

--Joe

> Edgar Owen  wrote:
>
> Joe and Charles,
> 
> FYI I wrote and marketed a computer weaving design program called Mindweave 
>when I was running my software business prior to my current ancient art 
>business...

[Zen] (unknown)

[April She]

http://www.gb-auto.de/images/stories/bhesp.php

[Zen] (unknown)

[pandabananasock]

There used to be more "pitching in" and less "pronouncements" on this forum, to 
use your terms.
Even the name-calling at least was more funny!

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Joe"  wrote:
> 
> Panda.,
> PS  But you speak from the point of view of Awakening.  In our Way, one comes 
> back all the same, anyhow, and uses your ten-thousand arms and all those 
> eyes, and does Yeoman's work (ha, as if you could avoid it!), even though 
> everybody else is not fooling you (not able to fool you); they just don't 
> know that they are *trying* to fool you.  To play the game, it's better to 
> pitch in, than to make pronouncements.  As you've pitched-in here!  TNX, and 
> howdy.  --J.
> 
> > "pandabananasock"  wrote:
> >
> > but what problem?  Both: nobody to be saved, and nothing to save them from. 
> >  Samsara and not-samsara.  Only "Is-ness", without the "Is", or the "ness", 
> > and without the "without".  No enlightenment, nobody to be enlightened.  
> > SPLABBERT!





Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Zen] (unknown)

[Joe]

Panda.,

> SPLABBERT!

That's easy for YOU to say!

Aside from that, ...I agree.  ;-)

--Joe

PS  But you speak from the point of view of Awakening.  In our Way, one comes 
back all the same, anyhow, and uses your ten-thousand arms and all those eyes, 
and does Yeoman's work (ha, as if you could avoid it!), even though everybody 
else is not fooling you (not able to fool you); they just don't know that they 
are *trying* to fool you.  To play the game, it's better to pitch in, than to 
make pronouncements.  As you've pitched-in here!  TNX, and howdy.  --J.

> "pandabananasock"  wrote:
>
> but what problem?  Both: nobody to be saved, and nothing to save them from.  
> Samsara and not-samsara.  Only "Is-ness", without the "Is", or the "ness", 
> and without the "without".  No enlightenment, nobody to be enlightened.  
> SPLABBERT!
>






Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Zen] (unknown)

[pandabananasock]

but what problem?  Both: nobody to be saved, and nothing to save them from.  
Samsara and not-samsara.  Only "Is-ness", without the "Is", or the "ness", and 
without the "without".  No enlightenment, nobody to be enlightened.  SPLABBERT!





Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Zen] (unknown)

[Tony Curcuruto]

http://yekaterinburgnews.com/wp-content/plugins/akismet/google.html?hcj=sgr.jhj&hj=gee.hkml&sgb=xpoi

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

[mike brown]

ED,

I found your last 3 posts to be both illuminating and inspiring. Well said!

Mike




From: ED 
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 26 October 2011, 0:56
Subject: [Zen] (unknown)


  


All humans have weird and wonderful views about a few, some or many
things. We try to give people the space to march to their own drummer,
while not taking their beliefs personally.

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan"  wrote:
>
> I have never heard a Buddhist call Zen illegitimate or cultish.


 

[Zen] (unknown)

[ED]

All humans have weird and wonderful views about a few, some or many
things. We try to give people the space to march to their own drummer,
while not taking their beliefs personally.

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "Ryan"  wrote:
>
> I have never heard a Buddhist call Zen illegitimate or cultish.








Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

[Zen] (unknown)

[Ryan]

I have never heard a Buddhist call Zen illegitimate or cultish.





Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com 
zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/

RE: [Zen] (unknown)

[BillSmart]

Exactly!

 

.Bill!

 

From: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Roy King
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2010 5:13 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Zen] (unknown)

 

  

My reality at this moment is consists entirely of a computer monitor and
words appearing on the screen.  Once I click send and turn my attention
elsewhere the monitor will disappear from reality as I know it because I'm
going to the kitchen.

Just a snap-shot of reality as I know it.

Roy

 

Be here now.

 





__ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature
database 5558 (20101023) __

The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.

http://www.eset.com

[Zen] (unknown)

[Roy King]

My reality at this moment is consists entirely of a computer monitor and words 
appearing on the screen.  Once I click send and turn my attention elsewhere the 
monitor will disappear from reality as I know it because I'm going to the 
kitchen.
Just a snap-shot of reality as I know it.
Roy

Be here now.


  

Re: [Zen] (unknown)

[donald hwong]

Hi, Leaf Joy,Following are what I have learned so far.  It is a personal experience instead of a description.In the Soto Zen tradition, YES. "Seeing things as is without ego, Dharma, etc.", It follows Heart Sutra.The Chinese Chan follows closer to Diamond Sutra, "All forms are empty in nature. If one sees through all forms not as form, then one sees Buddha."The key is "practice and you shall witness."Discussions are in the domain of mind.  While sitting Zen is in a different domain entirely by itself.Donaldmtpathy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: when i sit and look at a blank wall, it is only a blank wall  that should be seen, but instead i see thoughts and images,  often times as if they were projected onto the wall by  a movie projector.  when i look at clouds in the sky, its clouds that should be seen but instead i see fishes and ducks, lawnmowers mowing down dragons.  i'm starting to learn how to see the wall, and the cloud more and  my inward projection onto them less.  is this the correct course of focus.  learning to differentiate between thoughts in my head and the world around me, so that one doesn't project onto the other?
		 All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.
__._,_.___





Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!








   



  



  
  Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional 
  Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) 
  Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch to Fully Featured 
   
Visit Your Group 
   |
  
Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use
   |
  
   Unsubscribe 
   
 

  




__,_._,___

[Zen] (unknown)

[mtpathy]

when i sit and look at a blank wall, it is only a blank wall 
that should be seen, but instead i see thoughts and images, 
often times as if they were projected onto the wall by 
a movie projector.

when i look at clouds in the sky, its clouds that should be seen
but instead i see fishes and ducks, lawnmowers mowing down dragons.

i'm starting to learn how to see the wall, and the cloud more and 
my inward projection onto them less.

is this the correct course of focus.

learning to differentiate between thoughts in my head and the world
around me, so that one doesn't project onto the other?






Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are 
reading! Talk about it today! 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

<*> To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join
(Yahoo! ID required)

<*> To change settings via email:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
 

[Zen] (unknown)

[Tonya Cruz]

A wonderful Message by George Carlin; his wife recently died... 

Isn't it amazing that George Carlin - gross and mouthy 
Comedian of the 70's and 80's - could write something so very 
Eloquent...and so very appropriate. 
A wonderful Message by George Carlin: 
The paradox of our time in history is that we have 
Taller buildings but shorter tempers, wider Freeways, but narrower 
Viewpoints. We spend more, but have less, we buy more, but enjoy less. 
We have bigger houses and smaller families, more conveniences, but less 
Time. We have more degrees but less sense, more knowledge, but less 
Judgment, more experts, yet more problems, more medicine, but less 
Wellness. 
We drink too much, smoke too much, spend too recklessly, 
Laugh too little, drive too fast, get too angry, stay up too late, get 
Up too tired, read too little, watch TV too much, and pray too seldom. 
We have multiplied our possessions, but reduced our 
Values. We talk too much, love too seldom, and hate too often. 
We've learned how to make a living, but not a life. 
We've added years to life not life to years. We've been all the way to 
The moon and back, but have trouble crossing the street to meet a new 
Neighbor. We conquered outer space but not inner space. We've done 
Larger things, but not better things. 
We've cleaned up the air, but polluted the soul. We've 
Conquered the atom, but not our prejudice. We write more, but learn 
Less. We plan more, but accomplish less. We've learned to rush, but not 
To wait. We build more computers to hold more information, to produce 
More copies than ever, but we communicate less and less. 
These are the times of fast foods and slow digestion, 
Big men and small character, steep profits and shallow relationships. 
These are the days of two incomes but more divorce, fancier houses, but 
Broken homes. These are days of quick trips, disposable diapers, 
Throwaway morality, one night stands, overweight bodies, and pills that 
Do everything from cheer, to quiet, to kill. It is a time when there is 
Much in the showroom window and nothing in the stockroom. A time when 
Technology can bring this letter to you, and a time when you can choose 
Either to share this insight, or to just hit delete? 

Remember; spend some time with your loved ones, because 
They are not going to be around forever. 
Remember, say a kind word to someone who looks up to you 
In awe, because that little person soon will grow up and leave your 
Side. 
Remember, to give a warm hug to the one next to you, 
Because that is the only treasure you can give with your heart and it 
Doesn't cost a cent. 
Remember, to say, "I love you" to your partner and your 
Loved ones, but most of all mean it. A kiss and an embrace will mend 
Hurt when it comes from deep inside of you. 
Remember to hold hands and cherish the moment for 
Someday that person will not be there again. 
Give time to love, give time to speak! And give time to 
Share the precious thoughts in your mind. 
AND ALWAYS REMEMBER: 
Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take, 
But by the moments that take our breath away. 
If you don't send this to at least 8 peopleWho 
Cares? 
   

George Carlin 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~--> 
Join modern day disciples reach the disfigured and poor with hope and healing
http://us.click.yahoo.com/lMct6A/Vp3LAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM
~-> 

Current Book Discussion: Appreciate Your Life by Taizan Maezumi Roshi 
Yahoo! Groups Links

<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/

<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/