Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Bill, Agreed. And as I've done I suggest it all be public on group between us for the sake of transparency and openness. I agree that only ideas are fair game for disagreements and attacks not people. No personal insults should be allowed. The other thing that bugs me personally is the huge number of posts that are just gossip and venting and have nothing to do with Zen. I wouldn't mind a few but over the last weeks I've had to weed through more posts to our little dinky Zen group than all the other emails both personal and from other groups I'm on combined! I think there were over a hundred just yesterday. And the great majority had nothing to do with Zen at all. Can we please refrain ourselves from just babbling on and on and on about anything? I would specifically direct that request to Joe and Merle who are by far the worst offenders... Count the number of posts by Merle and Joe. It's really excessive and most have little or nothing to do with Zen. Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 10:30 PM, Bill! wrote: Edgar, I'm not completely opposed to it, but only as a last resort. I suggest we try: 1. Notice - post some guidelines (again). 2. Warning - warn people whose post we think are getting out-of-line. 3. Moderate - after a certain number of warnings or a particular egregious breach of guidelines put the member on Moderation. (That means all posts are held until one of the Moderators approve it.) How does that sound? ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Bill, What do you think of this idea below to try to focus the group back on just Zen instead of it being a general venting and gossip forum? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 8:42 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: All, I'm tempted, with Bill's assent, to put everyone on moderation and only allow posts that are really about Zen through and only those with no personal insults or flames... The group has greatly deteriorated recently and lost much of its direction and relevance... That seems to be why none of the many lurking members are posting and many are leaving... Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Joe wrote: Edgar, OK. Email me them privately, then. ;-) But do let me know if people complain, or have complained against my posts, specifically. If they have, or do, I may be able to adjust my tuning. Else, ban me, Bill!, and you. No regrets between friends. --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@ wrote: Joe, You should know I can't give you their names without their permission. That would be unethical... Edgar
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Bill, Here is another personal flame. Don't you agree this warrants MIke being put on moderation according to the guidelines you suggested and I agreed to? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 10:56 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Edgar, You bloody hypocrite! Three or four days ago I wrote a post casually mentioning that I see being human in less negative terms than Merle's more negative, cynical take. I mentioned that this is not just my opinion, but STANDARD BUDDHIST DOCTRINE that we are lucky to be born human so as to be exposed to the Dharma. What has followed from you and Merle not only shows both your utter ignorance of Buddhism, but also the most snide and low-brow attacks I've ever received on this forum (a member for close to 10 years). Get real, moronic, delusional, animal-trashing, dense are just a few examples. Merle, I'm beginning to suspect you have no real sincere desire to learn anything about Buddhism or Zen in particular. Who can forget your Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit! when informed there is no belief in a soul in Buddhism and your rant against Zen's 'no mind' as meaning you'd be brain dead without a mind? Talk about 'shoot the messenger'! And then you have the bare-faced cheek and audacity to claim one of my points as your own and ask if I get it now? (What it is to be truly human if one follows a spiritual path - when all you've done is rant about despising humans). How duplicitous! My post about being lucky to be born human is the same. IT IS WHAT BUDDHA TAUGHT. Do *you* get it now?? Edgar, Say what you like to me insult wise. I'm a big boy and as you can see I'll give more in return that hat I received, BUT to think you can insult and make snide remarks and then hide behind a smiley face is plain cowardice. And then to come on here and bleat about personal attacks and cleaning up the forum is simply nauseating. When it comes to Buddhism and Zen, you and Merle are dilettantes at best and trolls at worst. There, go moderate that... ; ) Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 12:42:39 AM All, I'm tempted, with Bill's assent, to put everyone on moderation and only allow posts that are really about Zen through and only those with no personal insults or flames... The group has greatly deteriorated recently and lost much of its direction and relevance... That seems to be why none of the many lurking members are posting and many are leaving... Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Joe wrote: Edgar, OK. Email me them privately, then. ;-) But do let me know if people complain, or have complained against my posts, specifically. If they have, or do, I may be able to adjust my tuning. Else, ban me, Bill!, and you. No regrets between friends. --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Joe, You should know I can't give you their names without their permission. That would be unethical... Edgar
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
teaching of freedom is very rare. While materialistic cultures have ideas like the pursuit of happiness, the fight for freedom, and the land of liberty, real liberty is completely inconceivable to us. The most important of the famous noble truths taught by the Buddha is the noble truth of freedom, which is the truth of nirvana. Contemplation of this noble truth of nirvana opens you up to the very idea that there is such a thing as freedom. Once you can imagine it, you feel a different sense about the meaning of your life. That you could be reliably, calmly, blissfully free, with absolutely nothing to compel you. No problems or suffering. This is unimaginable at first. Coming from a Protestant background if I even start to think about being free and happy, I unconsciously feel anxious, expecting someone to hit me or step on me. That's how we've been conditioned. You are a great being Have you been exposed to a religious tradition that begins with some huge putdown, that you must begin by seeing how there's something wrong with you and you have to save yourself? Perhaps that God made you out of nothing and that you have to depend on some authority, some power for whatever, in desperation, you really need to be saved? The beginning of the path is so important, because until you really treasure yourself how can you truly develop a mind that seeks freedom? Human life is so precious. Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: uerusuboyo@... uerusuboyo@...; To: zen group Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 2:56:26 AM Edgar, You bloody hypocrite! Three or four days ago I wrote a post casually mentioning that I see being human in less negative terms than Merle's more negative, cynical take. I mentioned that this is not just my opinion, but STANDARD BUDDHIST DOCTRINE that we are lucky to be born human so as to be exposed to the Dharma. What has followed from you and Merle not only shows both your utter ignorance of Buddhism, but also the most snide and low-brow attacks I've ever received on this forum (a member for close to 10 years). Get real, moronic, delusional, animal-trashing, dense are just a few examples. Merle, I'm beginning to suspect you have no real sincere desire to learn anything about Buddhism or Zen in particular. Who can forget your Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit! when informed there is no belief in a soul in Buddhism and your rant against Zen's 'no mind' as meaning you'd be brain dead without a mind? Talk about 'shoot the messenger'! And then you have the bare-faced cheek and audacity to claim one of my points as your own and ask if I get it now? (What it is to be truly human if one follows a spiritual path - when all you've done is rant about despising humans). How duplicitous! My post about being lucky to be born human is the same. IT IS WHAT BUDDHA TAUGHT. Do *you* get it now?? Edgar, Say what you like to me insult wise. I'm a big boy and as you can see I'll give more in return that hat I received, BUT to think you can insult and make snide remarks and then hide behind a smiley face is plain cowardice. And then to come on here and bleat about personal attacks and cleaning up the forum is simply nauseating. When it comes to Buddhism and Zen, you and Merle are dilettantes at best and trolls at worst. There, go moderate that... ; ) Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@...; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 12:42:39 AM All, I'm tempted, with Bill's assent, to put everyone on moderation and only allow posts that are really about Zen through and only those with no personal insults or flames... The group has greatly deteriorated recently and lost much of its direction and relevance... That seems to be why none of the many lurking members are posting and many are leaving... Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Joe wrote: Edgar, OK. Email me them privately, then. ;-) But do let me know if people complain, or have complained against my posts, specifically. If they have, or do, I may be able to adjust my tuning. Else, ban me, Bill!, and you. No regrets between friends. --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@ wrote: Joe, You should know I can't give you their names without their permission. That would be unethical... Edgar Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar, Yes, but we haven't issued the policy statement yet. If you'd stop posting examples I could get it typed up and posted more quickly. Chill out a little...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Bill, Here is another personal flame. Don't you agree this warrants MIke being put on moderation according to the guidelines you suggested and I agreed to? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 10:56 PM, uerusuboyo@... wrote: Edgar, You bloody hypocrite! Three or four days ago I wrote a post casually mentioning that I see being human in less negative terms than Merle's more negative, cynical take. I mentioned that this is not just my opinion, but STANDARD BUDDHIST DOCTRINE that we are lucky to be born human so as to be exposed to the Dharma. What has followed from you and Merle not only shows both your utter ignorance of Buddhism, but also the most snide and low-brow attacks I've ever received on this forum (a member for close to 10 years). Get real, moronic, delusional, animal-trashing, dense are just a few examples. Merle, I'm beginning to suspect you have no real sincere desire to learn anything about Buddhism or Zen in particular. Who can forget your Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit! when informed there is no belief in a soul in Buddhism and your rant against Zen's 'no mind' as meaning you'd be brain dead without a mind? Talk about 'shoot the messenger'! And then you have the bare-faced cheek and audacity to claim one of my points as your own and ask if I get it now? (What it is to be truly human if one follows a spiritual path - when all you've done is rant about despising humans). How duplicitous! My post about being lucky to be born human is the same. IT IS WHAT BUDDHA TAUGHT. Do *you* get it now?? Edgar, Say what you like to me insult wise. I'm a big boy and as you can see I'll give more in return that hat I received, BUT to think you can insult and make snide remarks and then hide behind a smiley face is plain cowardice. And then to come on here and bleat about personal attacks and cleaning up the forum is simply nauseating. When it comes to Buddhism and Zen, you and Merle are dilettantes at best and trolls at worst. There, go moderate that... ; ) Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@...; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer Sent: Wed, Jun 26, 2013 12:42:39 AM All, I'm tempted, with Bill's assent, to put everyone on moderation and only allow posts that are really about Zen through and only those with no personal insults or flames... The group has greatly deteriorated recently and lost much of its direction and relevance... That seems to be why none of the many lurking members are posting and many are leaving... Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Joe wrote: Edgar, OK. Email me them privately, then. ;-) But do let me know if people complain, or have complained against my posts, specifically. If they have, or do, I may be able to adjust my tuning. Else, ban me, Bill!, and you. No regrets between friends. --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@ wrote: Joe, You should know I can't give you their names without their permission. That would be unethical... Edgar Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar,br/br/I'd say that to be fair and consistent the person who posted these comments shown below should also be put on moderation. Anything else would be simply hypocritical, wouldn't it?br/br/br/Boy are you being dense todaybr/br/More delusion and ignorance on your partbr/br/Humans are BY FAR the cruelest species, especially those who tend to trash animals and spread false ignorant rumors about thembr/br/You are an irrational nut casebr/br/Mikebr/br/br/br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
I ran a neighborhood parenting listserv for some years, a group of people that can approach the piss and vinegar of zen practitioners. Whenever arguments broke out too much I would argue for three behaviors: Write scrupulously. Assume good will, help rather than judge, and be aware of people's sensitivity. We are all doing a difficult job (living in this case, parenting in the other case), and it is easy to trigger people's sore spots with careless words. Read forgivingly. Assume good will, assume even critical sounding judgements are meant to be helpful. Read remembering that there is no effen way someone can judge you at all based on email. If someone is all up in your face, it is their style, not a sign they have some special authority to judge you. Always include a bit of good, humor, koans, or anecdotes, to leaven whatever potentially judgmental or off-topic words you also are including. Traffic composition is a matter of balance. Make those busy people happy they glanced at your words. I would add one for the highest volume posters on this list: sometimes silence is golden. Not answering sometimes speaks volumes. In email chains, the last to post is the loser :) Sometimes saying nothing allows other people to articulate their own wisdom. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 26, 2013 9:43 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Edgar, I'd say that to be fair and consistent the person who posted these comments shown below should also be put on moderation. Anything else would be simply hypocritical, wouldn't it? Boy are you being dense today More delusion and ignorance on your part Humans are BY FAR the cruelest species, especially those who tend to trash animals and spread false ignorant rumors about them You are an irrational nut case Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad -- * From: * Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net; * To: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer * Sent: * Wed, Jun 26, 2013 12:55:32 PM Bill, Here is another example of a personal attack with personal name calling. I suggest this poster should also be placed on moderation along with Joe. What do you think? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:05 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Merle, Edgar, Do yourselves a favour and educate yourselves on Buddhism before you make personal attacks and show yourselves to be ignoramuses. This is from dharma net.org and recounts Buddha's parable on being born human. 1 The Preciousness of Human Life Endowed with Freedom and Opportunity Preciousness of human life Buddha told a wonderful parable: Imagine, he said, an old blind turtle who lives in the bottom of the seven oceans and who surfaces once every century for air. Floating randomly around the seas there's a golden yoke. As often as the blind turtle at the bottom of the ocean happens to raise his head through the neck hole of the yoke when he comes up for his centenary breath, that's the likelihood of being born in the human life-form. Reflect on how rare your human birth is — for every human, how many billions of other life forms there on this earth. You weren't born an insect, a sardine. With such a rare opportunity, you really should appreciate what you have right now! You should reflect how wonderful our life form is of the human embodiment, our person. How lucky we are to have it endowed liberty and opportunity. What might this mean – “liberty”? What freedoms do you have — just by being a human — that you should cherish and take advantage of? Imagine you were born a rabbit, a life in which is continual reaction to the predator chasing you. Imagine a life as a tiger, running for your own food. If you have trouble with this, ask yourself: If I were born a canary, I would not be able to... As a human, you can pause and reflect on what your situation is and then use your intelligence to choose a path of action. Beyond the freedom which comes from being a human, what other liberties are you blessed with? Chances are if you are taking this lesson, contemplating practicing this path, you enjoy freedoms many other humans do not. Do you think “I have no time to develop my practice, I have no time to reflect, to meditate, to be mindful…? Think about all the humans on this earth whose circumstances do not allow them to study the Dharma, develop a path of emancipation. Chances are if you are studying the four thoughts that turn the mind, you have the opportunity to practice them. Think of all the humans who lack this opportunity, people who are destitute, people enslaved economically, people enslaved politically, people who spend every moment of their lives and all their energies on survival. Spend some time and really appreciate the freedom and opportunity you are blessed with. Do you have enough to eat each
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Chris, this is wonderful. Siska -Original Message- From: Chris Austin-Lane ch...@austin-lane.net Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 26 Jun 2013 07:04:22 To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer I ran a neighborhood parenting listserv for some years, a group of people that can approach the piss and vinegar of zen practitioners. Whenever arguments broke out too much I would argue for three behaviors: Write scrupulously. Assume good will, help rather than judge, and be aware of people's sensitivity. We are all doing a difficult job (living in this case, parenting in the other case), and it is easy to trigger people's sore spots with careless words. Read forgivingly. Assume good will, assume even critical sounding judgements are meant to be helpful. Read remembering that there is no effen way someone can judge you at all based on email. If someone is all up in your face, it is their style, not a sign they have some special authority to judge you. Always include a bit of good, humor, koans, or anecdotes, to leaven whatever potentially judgmental or off-topic words you also are including. Traffic composition is a matter of balance. Make those busy people happy they glanced at your words. I would add one for the highest volume posters on this list: sometimes silence is golden. Not answering sometimes speaks volumes. In email chains, the last to post is the loser :) Sometimes saying nothing allows other people to articulate their own wisdom. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 26, 2013 9:43 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Edgar, I'd say that to be fair and consistent the person who posted these comments shown below should also be put on moderation. Anything else would be simply hypocritical, wouldn't it? Boy are you being dense today More delusion and ignorance on your part Humans are BY FAR the cruelest species, especially those who tend to trash animals and spread false ignorant rumors about them You are an irrational nut case Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad -- * From: * Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net; * To: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer * Sent: * Wed, Jun 26, 2013 12:55:32 PM Bill, Here is another example of a personal attack with personal name calling. I suggest this poster should also be placed on moderation along with Joe. What do you think? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:05 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Merle, Edgar, Do yourselves a favour and educate yourselves on Buddhism before you make personal attacks and show yourselves to be ignoramuses. This is from dharma net.org and recounts Buddha's parable on being born human. 1 The Preciousness of Human Life Endowed with Freedom and Opportunity Preciousness of human life Buddha told a wonderful parable: Imagine, he said, an old blind turtle who lives in the bottom of the seven oceans and who surfaces once every century for air. Floating randomly around the seas there's a golden yoke. As often as the blind turtle at the bottom of the ocean happens to raise his head through the neck hole of the yoke when he comes up for his centenary breath, that's the likelihood of being born in the human life-form. Reflect on how rare your human birth is — for every human, how many billions of other life forms there on this earth. You weren't born an insect, a sardine. With such a rare opportunity, you really should appreciate what you have right now! You should reflect how wonderful our life form is of the human embodiment, our person. How lucky we are to have it endowed liberty and opportunity. What might this mean – “liberty”? What freedoms do you have — just by being a human — that you should cherish and take advantage of? Imagine you were born a rabbit, a life in which is continual reaction to the predator chasing you. Imagine a life as a tiger, running for your own food. If you have trouble with this, ask yourself: If I were born a canary, I would not be able to... As a human, you can pause and reflect on what your situation is and then use your intelligence to choose a path of action. Beyond the freedom which comes from being a human, what other liberties are you blessed with? Chances are if you are taking this lesson, contemplating practicing this path, you enjoy freedoms many other humans do not. Do you think “I have no time to develop my practice, I have no time to reflect, to meditate, to be mindful…? Think about all the humans on this earth whose circumstances do not allow them to study the Dharma, develop a path of emancipation. Chances are if you are studying the four thoughts that turn the mind, you have the opportunity to practice them
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Takoma Park Maryland has a wonderful parenting community, full of wisdom and quick to help. We even had a group of meditating parents. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 26, 2013 9:09 PM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: ** Chris, this is wonderful. Siska -- *From: * Chris Austin-Lane ch...@austin-lane.net *Sender: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *Date: *Wed, 26 Jun 2013 07:04:22 -0700 *To: *Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *ReplyTo: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com *Subject: *Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer I ran a neighborhood parenting listserv for some years, a group of people that can approach the piss and vinegar of zen practitioners. Whenever arguments broke out too much I would argue for three behaviors: Write scrupulously. Assume good will, help rather than judge, and be aware of people's sensitivity. We are all doing a difficult job (living in this case, parenting in the other case), and it is easy to trigger people's sore spots with careless words. Read forgivingly. Assume good will, assume even critical sounding judgements are meant to be helpful. Read remembering that there is no effen way someone can judge you at all based on email. If someone is all up in your face, it is their style, not a sign they have some special authority to judge you. Always include a bit of good, humor, koans, or anecdotes, to leaven whatever potentially judgmental or off-topic words you also are including. Traffic composition is a matter of balance. Make those busy people happy they glanced at your words. I would add one for the highest volume posters on this list: sometimes silence is golden. Not answering sometimes speaks volumes. In email chains, the last to post is the loser :) Sometimes saying nothing allows other people to articulate their own wisdom. Thanks, --Chris 301-270-6524 On Jun 26, 2013 9:43 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Edgar, I'd say that to be fair and consistent the person who posted these comments shown below should also be put on moderation. Anything else would be simply hypocritical, wouldn't it? Boy are you being dense today More delusion and ignorance on your part Humans are BY FAR the cruelest species, especially those who tend to trash animals and spread false ignorant rumors about them You are an irrational nut case Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad -- * From: * Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net; * To: * Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; * Subject: * Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer * Sent: * Wed, Jun 26, 2013 12:55:32 PM Bill, Here is another example of a personal attack with personal name calling. I suggest this poster should also be placed on moderation along with Joe. What do you think? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 11:05 PM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Merle, Edgar, Do yourselves a favour and educate yourselves on Buddhism before you make personal attacks and show yourselves to be ignoramuses. This is from dharma net.org and recounts Buddha's parable on being born human. 1 The Preciousness of Human Life Endowed with Freedom and Opportunity Preciousness of human life Buddha told a wonderful parable: Imagine, he said, an old blind turtle who lives in the bottom of the seven oceans and who surfaces once every century for air. Floating randomly around the seas there's a golden yoke. As often as the blind turtle at the bottom of the ocean happens to raise his head through the neck hole of the yoke when he comes up for his centenary breath, that's the likelihood of being born in the human life-form. Reflect on how rare your human birth is — for every human, how many billions of other life forms there on this earth. You weren't born an insect, a sardine. With such a rare opportunity, you really should appreciate what you have right now! You should reflect how wonderful our life form is of the human embodiment, our person. How lucky we are to have it endowed liberty and opportunity. What might this mean – “liberty”? What freedoms do you have — just by being a human — that you should cherish and take advantage of? Imagine you were born a rabbit, a life in which is continual reaction to the predator chasing you. Imagine a life as a tiger, running for your own food. If you have trouble with this, ask yourself: If I were born a canary, I would not be able to... As a human, you can pause and reflect on what your situation is and then use your intelligence to choose a path of action. Beyond the freedom which comes from being a human, what other liberties are you blessed with? Chances are if you are taking this lesson, contemplating practicing this path, you enjoy freedoms many other humans do not. Do you think “I have no time to develop my practice, I have no time
[Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
.our true nature is to be on all fours and if we should grow a tail..then wag it...!..merle Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closerJune 24th, 2013 in Medical research A new animal study shows we’re making small progress in working out how to grow limbs. Credit: shutterstock.com Damage to vital organs, the spinal cord, or limbs can have an enormous impact on our ability to move, function – and even live. But imagine if you could restore these tissues back to their original condition and go on with life as normal. Well, this is the dream for regenerative medicine. And while humans missed out on these abilities in the evolutionary lottery, a recent study in mice shows we're making small progress to achieving this dream. Learning from animals Nature has provided the animal kingdom with many different ways to achieve perfect regeneration. Some amphibians – such as salamanders – are famous for their superhero-like ability to regenerate heart, brain, spinal cord, tail and can even whole limb tissue throughout their life. Although organ and spinal cord regeneration are clinically important and worthy of intense research investment, regrowing whole limbs provides a flagship example of perfect regeneration in the salamander. It has been known for more than a hundred years that if a salamander loses a limb, it grows right back. This process is extremely precise and removal of the limb at the shoulder regrows a full limb, but removal at the wrist only regrows the missing hand portion. Interestingly, there does not seem to be a limit on how many times they can perform this clever trick and each time the limb comes back perfect. There’s no limit to the number of times lizard-like salamanders can regenerate their limbs. Credit: shutterstock.com But mammals (including humans and mice) seem to have missed out on this important skill. The question of how to enhance the regenerative capabilities in humans, either by adding the missing ingredients, or activating these latent abilities currently lies wide open. Extending regeneration to mammals Mammals currently only have the capacity to regenerate the very tip of their finger. But the result is far from perfect. A range of studies in mice have shown the digit-tip regrowth is severely restricted. Removal of the very tip of the mouse digit will be replaced, but removal of the tissue a small distance further up the digit and closer to nail bed (the equivalent to a human cuticle), will fail to regrow. Last week, a group of researchers from the United States and Japan published work extending our understanding of the mechanism by which a resident stem cell population within the mouse digit tip nail bed can be activated to induce digit tip regeneration. In other words, we can now grow more of the digit back in mice and possibly more of the human finger. Resident stem cells are specialised cells found at various locations within the body. When activated, these cells multiply and then transform into other cell types required to replace worn out cells under conditions of normal tissue maintenance. This work builds on previous studies identifying the stem cell population in the nail bed by unveiling a signalling mechanism that could be exploited to enhance the amount of tissue that could be regrown. The potential for repair after injury appears very limited in many tissues and organs. Understanding how to enhance stem cell activation in these tissues may stimulate repair not previously thought possible. The ability to switch on and mobilise resident stem cells in regeneration will be important in a wide range of new therapies, particularity for organs affected by injury or disease. On a world stage, momentum is currently growing for these types of strategies. It is clear that once refined, these approaches are sure to have a profound influence on many different aspects of clinical medicine, opening up the possibility of replacing diseased or injured tissues. We may be some way off from the dream of replacing whole limbs in humans but recent progress confirms that by deepening our understanding of stem cell activation, we can directly unlock more regeneration in mammals than normally possible. More information: Nature (2013) doi:10.1038/nature12214 Provided by The Conversation Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer. June 24th, 2013. http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-06-regenerating-human-body-closer.html Posted by Robert Karl Stonjek
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Merle, Yes I often practice animal yoga mimicing the movements of animals including walking on all fours... Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 4:09 AM, Merle Lester wrote: .our true nature is to be on all fours and if we should grow a tail..then wag it...!..merle Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer June 24th, 2013 in Medical research A new animal study shows we’re making small progress in working out how to grow limbs. Credit: shutterstock.com Damage to vital organs, the spinal cord, or limbs can have an enormous impact on our ability to move, function – and even live. But imagine if you could restore these tissues back to their original condition and go on with life as normal. Well, this is the dream for regenerative medicine. And while humans missed out on these abilities in the evolutionary lottery, a recent study in mice shows we're making small progress to achieving this dream. Learning from animals Nature has provided the animal kingdom with many different ways to achieve perfect regeneration. Some amphibians – such as salamanders – are famous for their superhero-like ability to regenerate heart, brain, spinal cord, tail and can even whole limb tissue throughout their life. Although organ and spinal cord regeneration are clinically important and worthy of intense research investment, regrowing whole limbs provides a flagship example of perfect regeneration in the salamander. It has been known for more than a hundred years that if a salamander loses a limb, it grows right back. This process is extremely precise and removal of the limb at the shoulder regrows a full limb, but removal at the wrist only regrows the missing hand portion. Interestingly, there does not seem to be a limit on how many times they can perform this clever trick and each time the limb comes back perfect. There’s no limit to the number of times lizard-like salamanders can regenerate their limbs. Credit: shutterstock.com But mammals (including humans and mice) seem to have missed out on this important skill. The question of how to enhance the regenerative capabilities in humans, either by adding the missing ingredients, or activating these latent abilities currently lies wide open. Extending regeneration to mammals Mammals currently only have the capacity to regenerate the very tip of their finger. But the result is far from perfect. A range of studies in mice have shown the digit-tip regrowth is severely restricted. Removal of the very tip of the mouse digit will be replaced, but removal of the tissue a small distance further up the digit and closer to nail bed (the equivalent to a human cuticle), will fail to regrow. Last week, a group of researchers from the United States and Japan published work extending our understanding of the mechanism by which a resident stem cell population within the mouse digit tip nail bed can be activated to induce digit tip regeneration. In other words, we can now grow more of the digit back in mice and possibly more of the human finger. Resident stem cells are specialised cells found at various locations within the body. When activated, these cells multiply and then transform into other cell types required to replace worn out cells under conditions of normal tissue maintenance. This work builds on previous studies identifying the stem cell population in the nail bed by unveiling a signalling mechanism that could be exploited to enhance the amount of tissue that could be regrown. The potential for repair after injury appears very limited in many tissues and organs. Understanding how to enhance stem cell activation in these tissues may stimulate repair not previously thought possible. The ability to switch on and mobilise resident stem cells in regeneration will be important in a wide range of new therapies, particularity for organs affected by injury or disease. On a world stage, momentum is currently growing for these types of strategies. It is clear that once refined, these approaches are sure to have a profound influence on many different aspects of clinical medicine, opening up the possibility of replacing diseased or injured tissues. We may be some way off from the dream of replacing whole limbs in humans but recent progress confirms that by deepening our understanding of stem cell activation, we can directly unlock more regeneration in mammals than normally possible. More information: Nature (2013) doi:10.1038/nature12214 Provided by The Conversation Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer. June 24th, 2013. http://medicalxpress.com/news/2013-06-regenerating-human-body-closer.html Posted by Robert Karl Stonjek
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar,br/br/Well, you've got the 'ass' down pat.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
mike..there you go..nasty nasty..would an animal be so nasty?..merle Edgar, Well, you've got the 'ass' down pat. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer Sent: Tue, Jun 25, 2013 11:15:58 AM Merle, Yes I often practice animal yoga mimicing the movements of animals including walking on all fours... Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 4:09 AM, Merle Lester wrote: .our true nature is to be on all fours and if we should grow a tail..then wag it...!..merle Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closerJune 24th, 2013 in Medical research A new animal study shows we’re making small progress in working out how to grow limbs. Credit: shutterstock.com Damage to vital organs, the spinal cord, or limbs can have an enormous impact on our ability to move, function – and even live. But imagine if you could restore these tissues back to their original condition and go on with life as normal. Well, this is the dream for regenerative medicine. And while humans missed out on these abilities in the evolutionary lottery, a recent study in mice shows we're making small progress to achieving this dream. Learning from animals Nature has provided the animal kingdom with many different ways to achieve perfect regeneration. Some amphibians – such as salamanders – are famous for their superhero-like ability to regenerate heart, brain, spinal cord, tail and can even whole limb tissue throughout their life. Although organ and spinal cord regeneration are clinically important and worthy of intense research investment, regrowing whole limbs provides a flagship example of perfect regeneration in the salamander. It has been known for more than a hundred years that if a salamander loses a limb, it grows right back. This process is extremely precise and removal of the limb at the shoulder regrows a full limb, but removal at the wrist only regrows the missing hand portion. Interestingly, there does not seem to be a limit on how many times they can perform this clever trick and each time the limb comes back perfect. There’s no limit to the number of times lizard-like salamanders can regenerate their limbs. Credit: shutterstock.com But mammals (including humans and mice) seem to have missed out on this important skill. The question of how to enhance the regenerative capabilities in humans, either by adding the missing ingredients, or activating these latent abilities currently lies wide open. Extending regeneration to mammals Mammals currently only have the capacity to regenerate the very tip of their finger. But the result is far from perfect. A range of studies in mice have shown the digit-tip regrowth is severely restricted. Removal of the very tip of the mouse digit will be replaced, but removal of the tissue a small distance further up the digit and closer to nail bed (the equivalent to a human cuticle), will fail to regrow. Last week, a group of researchers from the United States and Japan published work extending our understanding of the mechanism by which a resident stem cell population within the mouse digit tip nail bed can be activated to induce digit tip regeneration. In other words, we can now grow more of the digit back in mice and possibly more of the human finger. Resident stem cells are specialised cells found at various locations within the body. When activated, these cells multiply and then transform into other cell types required to replace worn out cells under conditions of normal tissue maintenance. This work builds on previous studies identifying the stem cell population in the nail bed by unveiling a signalling mechanism that could be exploited to enhance the amount of tissue that could be regrown. The potential for repair after injury appears very limited in many tissues and organs. Understanding how to enhance stem cell activation in these tissues may stimulate repair not previously thought possible. The ability to switch on and mobilise resident stem cells in regeneration will be important in a wide range of new therapies, particularity for organs affected by injury or disease. On a world stage, momentum is currently growing for these types of strategies. It is clear that once refined, these approaches are sure to have a profound influence on many different aspects of clinical medicine, opening up the possibility of replacing diseased or injured tissues. We may be some way off from the dream of replacing whole limbs in humans but recent progress confirms that by deepening our understanding of stem cell activation, we can directly unlock more regeneration in mammals than normally possible. More information: Nature (2013) doi:10.1038/nature12214 Provided by The Conversation Dream of regenerating human body parts gets
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Mike, Thanks for the complement! What is telling is that you think comparing a human to an animal is an insult The true insult would be telling an animal it was acting like a human! Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:45 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Edgar, Well, you've got the 'ass' down pat. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer Sent: Tue, Jun 25, 2013 11:15:58 AM Merle, Yes I often practice animal yoga mimicing the movements of animals including walking on all fours... Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 4:09 AM, Merle Lester wrote: .our true nature is to be on all fours and if we should grow a tail..then wag it...!..merle Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer June 24th, 2013 in Medical research A new animal study shows we’re making small progress in working out how to grow limbs. Credit: shutterstock.com Damage to vital organs, the spinal cord, or limbs can have an enormous impact on our ability to move, function – and even live. But imagine if you could restore these tissues back to their original condition and go on with life as normal. Well, this is the dream for regenerative medicine. And while humans missed out on these abilities in the evolutionary lottery, a recent study in mice shows we're making small progress to achieving this dream. Learning from animals Nature has provided the animal kingdom with many different ways to achieve perfect regeneration. Some amphibians – such as salamanders – are famous for their superhero-like ability to regenerate heart, brain, spinal cord, tail and can even whole limb tissue throughout their life. Although organ and spinal cord regeneration are clinically important and worthy of intense research investment, regrowing whole limbs provides a flagship example of perfect regeneration in the salamander. It has been known for more than a hundred years that if a salamander loses a limb, it grows right back. This process is extremely precise and removal of the limb at the shoulder regrows a full limb, but removal at the wrist only regrows the missing hand portion. Interestingly, there does not seem to be a limit on how many times they can perform this clever trick and each time the limb comes back perfect. There’s no limit to the number of times lizard-like salamanders can regenerate their limbs. Credit: shutterstock.com But mammals (including humans and mice) seem to have missed out on this important skill. The question of how to enhance the regenerative capabilities in humans, either by adding the missing ingredients, or activating these latent abilities currently lies wide open. Extending regeneration to mammals Mammals currently only have the capacity to regenerate the very tip of their finger. But the result is far from perfect. A range of studies in mice have shown the digit-tip regrowth is severely restricted. Removal of the very tip of the mouse digit will be replaced, but removal of the tissue a small distance further up the digit and closer to nail bed (the equivalent to a human cuticle), will fail to regrow. Last week, a group of researchers from the United States and Japan published work extending our understanding of the mechanism by which a resident stem cell population within the mouse digit tip nail bed can be activated to induce digit tip regeneration. In other words, we can now grow more of the digit back in mice and possibly more of the human finger. Resident stem cells are specialised cells found at various locations within the body. When activated, these cells multiply and then transform into other cell types required to replace worn out cells under conditions of normal tissue maintenance. This work builds on previous studies identifying the stem cell population in the nail bed by unveiling a signalling mechanism that could be exploited to enhance the amount of tissue that could be regrown. The potential for repair after injury appears very limited in many tissues and organs. Understanding how to enhance stem cell activation in these tissues may stimulate repair not previously thought possible. The ability to switch on and mobilise resident stem cells in regeneration will be important in a wide range of new therapies, particularity for organs affected by injury or disease. On a world stage, momentum is currently growing for these types of strategies. It is clear that once refined, these approaches are sure to have a profound influence on many different aspects of clinical medicine, opening up the possibility of replacing diseased or injured tissues. We may be some way off from the dream of replacing whole limbs in humans but recent progress confirms that by deepening our understanding
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Mike and Joe, An even worse insult would be telling an animal it was acting like Mike or Joe! :-) Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:53 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: Mike, Thanks for the complement! What is telling is that you think comparing a human to an animal is an insult The true insult would be telling an animal it was acting like a human! Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:45 AM, uerusub...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: Edgar, Well, you've got the 'ass' down pat. Mike Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad From: Edgar Owen edgaro...@att.net; To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com; Subject: Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer Sent: Tue, Jun 25, 2013 11:15:58 AM Merle, Yes I often practice animal yoga mimicing the movements of animals including walking on all fours... Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 4:09 AM, Merle Lester wrote: .our true nature is to be on all fours and if we should grow a tail..then wag it...!..merle Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer June 24th, 2013 in Medical research A new animal study shows we’re making small progress in working out how to grow limbs. Credit: shutterstock.com Damage to vital organs, the spinal cord, or limbs can have an enormous impact on our ability to move, function – and even live. But imagine if you could restore these tissues back to their original condition and go on with life as normal. Well, this is the dream for regenerative medicine. And while humans missed out on these abilities in the evolutionary lottery, a recent study in mice shows we're making small progress to achieving this dream. Learning from animals Nature has provided the animal kingdom with many different ways to achieve perfect regeneration. Some amphibians – such as salamanders – are famous for their superhero-like ability to regenerate heart, brain, spinal cord, tail and can even whole limb tissue throughout their life. Although organ and spinal cord regeneration are clinically important and worthy of intense research investment, regrowing whole limbs provides a flagship example of perfect regeneration in the salamander. It has been known for more than a hundred years that if a salamander loses a limb, it grows right back. This process is extremely precise and removal of the limb at the shoulder regrows a full limb, but removal at the wrist only regrows the missing hand portion. Interestingly, there does not seem to be a limit on how many times they can perform this clever trick and each time the limb comes back perfect. There’s no limit to the number of times lizard-like salamanders can regenerate their limbs. Credit: shutterstock.com But mammals (including humans and mice) seem to have missed out on this important skill. The question of how to enhance the regenerative capabilities in humans, either by adding the missing ingredients, or activating these latent abilities currently lies wide open. Extending regeneration to mammals Mammals currently only have the capacity to regenerate the very tip of their finger. But the result is far from perfect. A range of studies in mice have shown the digit-tip regrowth is severely restricted. Removal of the very tip of the mouse digit will be replaced, but removal of the tissue a small distance further up the digit and closer to nail bed (the equivalent to a human cuticle), will fail to regrow. Last week, a group of researchers from the United States and Japan published work extending our understanding of the mechanism by which a resident stem cell population within the mouse digit tip nail bed can be activated to induce digit tip regeneration. In other words, we can now grow more of the digit back in mice and possibly more of the human finger. Resident stem cells are specialised cells found at various locations within the body. When activated, these cells multiply and then transform into other cell types required to replace worn out cells under conditions of normal tissue maintenance. This work builds on previous studies identifying the stem cell population in the nail bed by unveiling a signalling mechanism that could be exploited to enhance the amount of tissue that could be regrown. The potential for repair after injury appears very limited in many tissues and organs. Understanding how to enhance stem cell activation in these tissues may stimulate repair not previously thought possible. The ability to switch on and mobilise resident stem cells in regeneration will be important in a wide range of new therapies, particularity for organs affected by injury or disease. On a world stage, momentum is currently growing for these types of strategies. It is clear that once refined, these approaches are sure to have a profound influence on many different aspects of clinical medicine, opening up the possibility of replacing
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Merle,br/br/If I put a little smiley face after it, would that make it less nasty?br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar,br/br/Ahem, cat fight...br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar,br/br/What do you mean an animal acting like Mike or Joe? You mean like completely killing you in an intelligent debate? Yep, a chimpanzee could do that easily..br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar,br/br/No. We claim that intelligence is a tool. But being a tool is something you definitely excel at and are better than us at.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar, Thanks! And I *am* an animal. So is Mike! (if not just some code somewhere, trying to pass the Turing Test). Just bein' myself. You? ;-) --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Mike and Joe, An even worse insult would be telling an animal it was acting like Mike or Joe! :-) Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar, Boy-o, is right. Truly intelligent adults know where and when to apply reason, and where and when not. You're just one who does not. This lapse, ignorance, incapacity, and inexperience is manifestly the root of your inadequacy in this life. Just don't give it some thought... . ;-) --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: There you go again claiming you and Joe have more intelligence than I do while simultaneously prattering on about how it's intelligence that is the major impediment to Zen. Boy O boy! Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Mike, Hand-tool, or power-tool? ;-) --Joe / Woodworker --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, uerusuboyo@... wrote: Edgar, No. We claim that intelligence is a tool. But being a tool is something you definitely excel at and are better than us at. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Joe,br/br/The kind of tool you'd definitely need to wash your hands after using.br/br/Mikebr/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Mike, ¡Chihuahua! (the place, not the fine 'perrito'). Like that, eh? --Joe uerusuboyo@... wrote: Joe, The kind of tool you'd definitely need to wash your hands after using. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Joe, Boy O, is right. We just had several more members unsubscribe today due to the obsessive non-Buddhist nonsense being posted here,,, I get notices of one or two every day unsubscribing. Isn't there a schoolboy putdown group you'd be more at home on? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 2:29 PM, Joe wrote: Edgar, Boy-o, is right. Truly intelligent adults know where and when to apply reason, and where and when not. You're just one who does not. This lapse, ignorance, incapacity, and inexperience is manifestly the root of your inadequacy in this life. Just don't give it some thought... . ;-) --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: There you go again claiming you and Joe have more intelligence than I do while simultaneously prattering on about how it's intelligence that is the major impediment to Zen. Boy O boy!
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar, If those bailing complain about my posts especially, please DO let me know about that, and let me have THEIR names, too (I don't mind if you let me know publicly, here). I still object to your use of put-down phrases like get real, and I don't mind letting you know that, ...publicly, ...here. I don't see this behavior as a way that a supposed Moderator ought to act. Check it. --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Joe, Boy O, is right. We just had several more members unsubscribe today due to the obsessive non-Buddhist nonsense being posted here,,, I get notices of one or two every day unsubscribing. Isn't there a schoolboy putdown group you'd be more at home on? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 2:29 PM, Joe wrote: Edgar, Boy-o, is right. Truly intelligent adults know where and when to apply reason, and where and when not. You're just one who does not. This lapse, ignorance, incapacity, and inexperience is manifestly the root of your inadequacy in this life. Just don't give it some thought... . ;-) --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@ wrote: There you go again claiming you and Joe have more intelligence than I do while simultaneously prattering on about how it's intelligence that is the major impediment to Zen. Boy O boy! Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Joe, You should know I can't give you their names without their permission. That would be unethical... Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 6:04 PM, Joe wrote: Edgar, If those bailing complain about my posts especially, please DO let me know about that, and let me have THEIR names, too (I don't mind if you let me know publicly, here). I still object to your use of put-down phrases like get real, and I don't mind letting you know that, ...publicly, ...here. I don't see this behavior as a way that a supposed Moderator ought to act. Check it. --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Joe, Boy O, is right. We just had several more members unsubscribe today due to the obsessive non-Buddhist nonsense being posted here,,, I get notices of one or two every day unsubscribing. Isn't there a schoolboy putdown group you'd be more at home on? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 2:29 PM, Joe wrote: Edgar, Boy-o, is right. Truly intelligent adults know where and when to apply reason, and where and when not. You're just one who does not. This lapse, ignorance, incapacity, and inexperience is manifestly the root of your inadequacy in this life. Just don't give it some thought... . ;-) --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@ wrote: There you go again claiming you and Joe have more intelligence than I do while simultaneously prattering on about how it's intelligence that is the major impediment to Zen. Boy O boy!
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar, OK. Email me them privately, then. ;-) But do let me know if people complain, or have complained against my posts, specifically. If they have, or do, I may be able to adjust my tuning. Else, ban me, Bill!, and you. No regrets between friends. --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Joe, You should know I can't give you their names without their permission. That would be unethical... Edgar Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar, With no help from presumed co-Moderator Edgar. In fact, the opposite. This is the reason for my demonstration, and my mirroring horse-crap back to Edgar that he regularly exhibits here. He recognizes himself, finally, and feels he must make a move (to hide). Get real, sir! With all respect to Members, --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: The group has greatly deteriorated recently and lost much of its direction and relevance... Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Bill, What do you think of this idea below to try to focus the group back on just Zen instead of it being a general venting and gossip forum? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 8:42 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: All, I'm tempted, with Bill's assent, to put everyone on moderation and only allow posts that are really about Zen through and only those with no personal insults or flames... The group has greatly deteriorated recently and lost much of its direction and relevance... That seems to be why none of the many lurking members are posting and many are leaving... Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Joe wrote: Edgar, OK. Email me them privately, then. ;-) But do let me know if people complain, or have complained against my posts, specifically. If they have, or do, I may be able to adjust my tuning. Else, ban me, Bill!, and you. No regrets between friends. --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Joe, You should know I can't give you their names without their permission. That would be unethical... Edgar
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Group: I've also noticed an increase in members unsubscribing. So far no one whose name/email address I've recognized. These were probably just 'lurkers' but it's kind a a 'canary in a cole mine' type of warning. Can't we clean it up a little? Remember - no ad hominems. You can completely destroy someone's ideas or opinions, but don't attack the person. Okay? ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Joe, Boy O, is right. We just had several more members unsubscribe today due to the obsessive non-Buddhist nonsense being posted here,,, I get notices of one or two every day unsubscribing. Isn't there a schoolboy putdown group you'd be more at home on? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 2:29 PM, Joe wrote: Edgar, Boy-o, is right. Truly intelligent adults know where and when to apply reason, and where and when not. You're just one who does not. This lapse, ignorance, incapacity, and inexperience is manifestly the root of your inadequacy in this life. Just don't give it some thought... . ;-) --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@ wrote: There you go again claiming you and Joe have more intelligence than I do while simultaneously prattering on about how it's intelligence that is the major impediment to Zen. Boy O boy! Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar, I'm not completely opposed to it, but only as a last resort. I suggest we try: 1. Notice - post some guidelines (again). 2. Warning - warn people whose post we think are getting out-of-line. 3. Moderate - after a certain number of warnings or a particular egregious breach of guidelines put the member on Moderation. (That means all posts are held until one of the Moderators approve it.) How does that sound? ...Bill! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen edgarowen@... wrote: Bill, What do you think of this idea below to try to focus the group back on just Zen instead of it being a general venting and gossip forum? Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 8:42 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: All, I'm tempted, with Bill's assent, to put everyone on moderation and only allow posts that are really about Zen through and only those with no personal insults or flames... The group has greatly deteriorated recently and lost much of its direction and relevance... That seems to be why none of the many lurking members are posting and many are leaving... Edgar On Jun 25, 2013, at 7:55 PM, Joe wrote: Edgar, OK. Email me them privately, then. ;-) But do let me know if people complain, or have complained against my posts, specifically. If they have, or do, I may be able to adjust my tuning. Else, ban me, Bill!, and you. No regrets between friends. --Joe Edgar Owen edgarowen@ wrote: Joe, You should know I can't give you their names without their permission. That would be unethical... Edgar Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Edgar,br/br/You bloody hypocrite! Three or four days ago I wrote a post casually mentioning that I see being human in less negative terms than Merle's more negative, cynical take. I mentioned that this is not just my opinion, but STANDARD BUDDHIST DOCTRINE that we are lucky to be born human so as to be exposed to the Dharma. What has followed from you and Merle not only shows both your utter ignorance of Buddhism, but also the most snide and low-brow attacks I've ever received on this forum (a member for close to 10 years). Get real, moronic, delusional, animal-trashing, dense are just a few examples.br/br/Merle, I'm beginning to suspect you have no real sincere desire to learn anything about Buddhism or Zen in particular. Who can forget your Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit! when informed there is no belief in a soul in Buddhism and your rant against Zen's 'no mind' as meaning you'd be brain dead without a mind? Talk about 'shoot the messenger'! And then you have the bare-faced cheek and audacity to claim one of my points as your own and ask if I get it now? (What it is to be truly human if one follows a spiritual path - when all you've done is rant about despising humans). How duplicitous! My post about being lucky to be born human is the same. IT IS WHAT BUDDHA TAUGHT. Do *you* get it now??br/br/Edgar, Say what you like to me insult wise. I'm a big boy and as you can see I'll give more in return that hat I received, BUT to think you can insult and make snide remarks and then hide behind a smiley face is plain cowardice. And then to come on here and bleat about personal attacks and cleaning up the forum is simply nauseating. When it comes to Buddhism and Zen, you and Merle are dilettantes at best and trolls at worst. There, go moderate that... ; )br/br/Mikebr/br/br/br/br/br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Merle, Edgar,br/br/Do yourselves a favour and educate yourselves on Buddhism before you make personal attacks and show yourselves to be ignoramuses. This is from dharma net.org and recounts Buddha's parable on being born human.br/br/1br/The Preciousness of Human Life Endowed with Freedom and Opportunitybr/br/Preciousness of human lifebr/br/Buddha told a wonderful parable:br/br/Imagine, he said, an old blind turtle who lives in the bottom of the seven oceans and who surfaces once every century for air. Floating randomly around the seas there's a golden yoke. As often as the blind turtle at the bottom of the ocean happens to raise his head through the neck hole of the yoke when he comes up for his centenary breath, that's the likelihood of being born in the human life-form. br/br/br/br/br/Reflect on how rare your human birth is — for every human, how many billions of other life forms there on this earth. You weren't born an insect, a sardine.br/br/With such a rare opportunity, you really should appreciate what you have right now!br/br/You should reflect how wonderful our life form is of the human embodiment, our person. How lucky we are to have it endowed liberty and opportunity.br/br/ br/br/br/br/What might this mean – “liberty”? What freedoms do you have — just by being a human — that you should cherish and take advantage of?br/br/br/br/Imagine you were born a rabbit, a life in which is continual reaction to the predator chasing you. Imagine a life as a tiger, running for your own food.br/br/If you have trouble with this, ask yourself: If I were born a canary, I would not be able to...br/br/As a human, you can pause and reflect on what your situation is and then use your intelligence to choose a path of action.br/br/br/br/Beyond the freedom which comes from being a human, what other liberties are you blessed with?br/br/Chances are if you are taking this lesson, contemplating practicing this path, you enjoy freedoms many other humans do not.br/br/br/br/Do you think “I have no time to develop my practice, I have no time to reflect, to meditate, to be mindful…?br/br/Think about all the humans on this earth whose circumstances do not allow them to study the Dharma, develop a path of emancipation. Chances are if you are studying the four thoughts that turn the mind, you have the opportunity to practice them.br/br/Think of all the humans who lack this opportunity, people who are destitute, people enslaved economically, people enslaved politically, people who spend every moment of their lives and all their energies on survival. Spend some time and really appreciate the freedom and opportunity you are blessed with. Do you have enough to eat each day? Are you free from the fear of being displaced at any moment? Do you spend every moment of your life surviving, or do you have time read, meditate, take an Ashoka course?br/br/Now reflect on the rarity of being in a place and time where teachings and teachers are available to you from which you can choose a path that's right for you, that you can follow in the free time you have.br/br/Your precious opportunity also includes access to the teaching of freedom and enlightenment.br/br/ br/br/br/br/Even with a precious human life, and even with a life that allows the opportunity of time to practice and reflect, reflect on how precious it is to have access to the teachings on personal transformation. Only a generation ago think how rare the opportunity to be exposed to the Dharma was, how few teachers were accessible, how few resources like Ashoka were available.br/br/Reflect on the rarity of being in a place and time where teachings and teachers are available to you from which you can choose a path that's right for you, that you can follow in the free time you have.br/br/br/br/br/Reflect on the preciousness of the qualities within you because you are a human:br/br/You have a mind that is capable of developing wisdom and compassion. You have a mind that that can distinguish right from wrong, a mind that can distinguish between that which causes suffering and should be abandoned and that which brings happiness and should be nourished.br/br/True freedombr/In many societies there's no notion of liberation or self-illumination or education, merely training for life as a hunter or a warrior or a computer programmer. The real teaching of freedom is very rare. While materialistic cultures have ideas like the pursuit of happiness, the fight for freedom, and the land of liberty, real liberty is completely inconceivable to us.br/br/The most important of the famous noble truths taught by the Buddha is the noble truth of freedom, which is the truth of nirvana. Contemplation of this noble truth of nirvana opens you up to the very idea that there is such a thing as freedom. Once you can imagine it, you feel a different sense about the meaning of your life. That you could be reliably, calmly, blissfully free, with
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Yes, Bill! Blessings, and thanks. And no Catholic or America slurs. Such hate speech is hateful. Thanks. --Joe Bill! BillSmart@... wrote: Group: Can't we clean it up a little? Remember - no ad hominems. You can completely destroy someone's ideas or opinions, but don't attack the person. Okay? Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Mike, You're a hell of a good man, and a man after my heart. But, still, no love child. Just forgetaboutit! You put into words what the soles of me feet feel, and keep to themselves, to my chagrin. Dang. Mebbee someday. Thanks. Brother. I'll say no more. We have a good Forum here. Let's keep it. --Joe PS Not a snippeth, below. No Pinking-Shears, neither. You pass all tests, all Gates. Gate, Gate, Parasamgate; Bodhi... Svaha! --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, uerusuboyo@... wrote: Edgar,br/br/You bloody hypocrite! Three or four days ago I wrote a post casually mentioning that I see being human in less negative terms than Merle's more negative, cynical take. I mentioned that this is not just my opinion, but STANDARD BUDDHIST DOCTRINE that we are lucky to be born human so as to be exposed to the Dharma. What has followed from you and Merle not only shows both your utter ignorance of Buddhism, but also the most snide and low-brow attacks I've ever received on this forum (a member for close to 10 years). Get real, moronic, delusional, animal-trashing, dense are just a few examples.br/br/Merle, I'm beginning to suspect you have no real sincere desire to learn anything about Buddhism or Zen in particular. Who can forget your Bullshit! Bullshit! Bullshit! when informed there is no belief in a soul in Buddhism and your rant against Zen's 'no mind' as meaning you'd be brain dead without a mind? Talk about 'shoot the messenger'! And then you have the bare-faced cheek and audacity to claim one of my points as your own and ask if I get it now? (What it is to be truly human if one follows a spiritual path - when all you've done is rant about despising humans). How duplicitous! My post about being lucky to be born human is the same. IT IS WHAT BUDDHA TAUGHT. Do *you* get it now??br/br/Edgar, Say what you like to me insult wise. I'm a big boy and as you can see I'll give more in return that hat I received, BUT to think you can insult and make snide remarks and then hide behind a smiley face is plain cowardice. And then to come on here and bleat about personal attacks and cleaning up the forum is simply nauseating. When it comes to Buddhism and Zen, you and Merle are dilettantes at best and trolls at worst. There, go moderate that... ; ) Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Joe,br/br/A Welshman here. Honed in Tiger Bay, Cardiff. And sharpened in the British infantry. What you see is what you get. Two-facedness and duplicity will not be tolerated. Over and out.br/br/Mikebr/br/Ps. Don't discount that love-child. Alcohol is a soldier's best friend off the battlefield..br/br/Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad
Re: [Zen] Fwd: [evol-psych] News: Dream of regenerating human body parts gets a little closer
Mike, ¡Chihuahua! You're 'way in advance of my pallid ass. Despite my Arizona all-body tan. --Joe / in the Naked Pueblo, Southern Arizona PS Astronomer's best friend is Soldier's, too. Battlefield is dark- sky, wherever we find it. Roger, Mike. All copied. Best 73! (ham-op., not mil.-operator). uerusuboyo@... wrote: Joe, A Welshman here. Honed in Tiger Bay, Cardiff. And sharpened in the British infantry. What you see is what you get. Two-facedness and duplicity will not be tolerated. Over and out. Mike Ps. Don't discount that love-child. Alcohol is a soldier's best friend off the battlefield. Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: zen_forum-dig...@yahoogroups.com zen_forum-fullfeatu...@yahoogroups.com * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: zen_forum-unsubscr...@yahoogroups.com * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
