Re: [zeromq-dev] Flow control with router socket
Thank you guys for the answers! That's plenty of information to get me going. Regards, Gyorgy Szekely On Thu, May 14, 2020 at 6:13 PM Brett Viren wrote: > I was going to reply similarly. Once a message is outside a socket, > it's out of ZeroMQ's hands and the responsibility of the application. > > This aspect is somewhat fresh in my own learning. The core issue here > (in my mind) is that the broker (router) severs any direct communication > between producer and consumer. Thus any back pressure from consumer to > producer must be communicated through the broker application. It may > sound obvious to say it like this but it took me a bit to internalize > this basic idea. > > If it's any help to look at some examples, I've recently implemented a > form of credit-based flow control following the ZeroMQ guide > description. It adds a runtime choice to use ROUTER/DEALER or > SERVER/CLIENT. The implementation is somewhat enmeshed in other choices > in my library but it could still serve as a general example. > > Actually, I implmented it twice, once in PyZMQ and once in cppzmq. > Barring some bug, the two should inter-operate. > > PyZMQ: > > https://github.com/brettviren/zio/tree/master/python/zio/flow > > cppzmq: > > https://github.com/brettviren/zio/blob/master/inc/zio/flow.hpp > https://github.com/brettviren/zio/blob/master/src/flow.cpp > > (flow.cpp is kind of a mess due to me still trying to understand > boost.sml which I use for the FSM. I welcome any critiques if anyone > cares to offer them.) > > One caveat, this code is Free to use but I don't consider it released. > I may still end up making drastic changes. > > But, to understand (this implementation of) credit-based flow control > this documentation and diagram may be more useful than the code: > > https://brettviren.github.io/zio/flow.html > > > And, one last comment: The Python implementation includes a "broker" > that does a little dance in order to hook up the "producer" and the > "consumer" ends in a way that allows each to think they are simple > clients and thus they can reuse the same "flow protocol" code in a > symmetric manner regadless of which role each endpoint plays. I have > some rambling about how the broker does this dance: > > https://brettviren.github.io/zio/flow-broker.html > > There are likely other, and simpler ways to do this. I'd be interested > to hear any ideas on that. The main issue is the broker needs to spawn > a "back end" consumer (producer) to service the "front end" producer > (consumer). The broker has no a'priori info about its front end clients > and what they may want from a back end so this spawning must be done as > a dymamic reaction to the first message from a "front end". That and my > desire for symmetric "flow protocol" code leads to this somewhat > contorted dance. > > > Cheers, > -Brett. > > > Kevin Sapper writes: > > > Hi Gyorgy, > > > > back-pressure is something very specific to your application. ZeroMQ > itself only implements blocking or dropping depending on the socket types > > you're using. > > > > To implement a credit-based flow have a look into the guide: > http://zguide.zeromq.org/page:all#Transferring-Files > > > > //Kevin > > > > Am Do., 14. Mai 2020 um 09:55 Uhr schrieb Gyorgy Szekely < > hodito...@gmail.com>: > > > > Hi All, > > > > I have a message router that routes messages between different types of > producers and consumers. Socket types are router (message > > router), dealer (producer, consumer). Currently if a consumer is not > fast enough messages start to queue up (dealer input queue, router > > output queue), eventually the router starts to drop messages to avoid > blocking. > > > > I would like to implement some kind of flow control. With plain TCP I > can rely on the built-in flow control: write blocks if consumer is > > overloaded, and producers can be sanctioned by not reading their socket. > > > > With ZMQ router/dealer I can detect if a consumer is slow by receiving > EAGAIN on send, but as far as I understand I can't "slow down" a > > specific producer, because router socket does fair queuing. So I have > to do application layer "stop sending" and "continue" messages and > > send them to specific producers... > > > > Is there any better way to do this? I would rather not reinvent the > wheel, TCP already has a sophisticated mechanism for this. > > > > Regards, > > Gyorgy Szekely > > > > ___ > > zeromq-dev mailing list > > zeromq-dev@lists.zeromq.org > > https://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev > > > > ___ > > zeromq-dev mailing list > > zeromq-dev@lists.zeromq.org > > https://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev > ___ > zeromq-dev mailing list > zeromq-dev@lists.zeromq.org > https://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev >
Re: [zeromq-dev] Flow control with router socket
I was going to reply similarly. Once a message is outside a socket, it's out of ZeroMQ's hands and the responsibility of the application. This aspect is somewhat fresh in my own learning. The core issue here (in my mind) is that the broker (router) severs any direct communication between producer and consumer. Thus any back pressure from consumer to producer must be communicated through the broker application. It may sound obvious to say it like this but it took me a bit to internalize this basic idea. If it's any help to look at some examples, I've recently implemented a form of credit-based flow control following the ZeroMQ guide description. It adds a runtime choice to use ROUTER/DEALER or SERVER/CLIENT. The implementation is somewhat enmeshed in other choices in my library but it could still serve as a general example. Actually, I implmented it twice, once in PyZMQ and once in cppzmq. Barring some bug, the two should inter-operate. PyZMQ: https://github.com/brettviren/zio/tree/master/python/zio/flow cppzmq: https://github.com/brettviren/zio/blob/master/inc/zio/flow.hpp https://github.com/brettviren/zio/blob/master/src/flow.cpp (flow.cpp is kind of a mess due to me still trying to understand boost.sml which I use for the FSM. I welcome any critiques if anyone cares to offer them.) One caveat, this code is Free to use but I don't consider it released. I may still end up making drastic changes. But, to understand (this implementation of) credit-based flow control this documentation and diagram may be more useful than the code: https://brettviren.github.io/zio/flow.html And, one last comment: The Python implementation includes a "broker" that does a little dance in order to hook up the "producer" and the "consumer" ends in a way that allows each to think they are simple clients and thus they can reuse the same "flow protocol" code in a symmetric manner regadless of which role each endpoint plays. I have some rambling about how the broker does this dance: https://brettviren.github.io/zio/flow-broker.html There are likely other, and simpler ways to do this. I'd be interested to hear any ideas on that. The main issue is the broker needs to spawn a "back end" consumer (producer) to service the "front end" producer (consumer). The broker has no a'priori info about its front end clients and what they may want from a back end so this spawning must be done as a dymamic reaction to the first message from a "front end". That and my desire for symmetric "flow protocol" code leads to this somewhat contorted dance. Cheers, -Brett. Kevin Sapper writes: > Hi Gyorgy, > > back-pressure is something very specific to your application. ZeroMQ itself > only implements blocking or dropping depending on the socket types > you're using. > > To implement a credit-based flow have a look into the guide: > http://zguide.zeromq.org/page:all#Transferring-Files > > //Kevin > > Am Do., 14. Mai 2020 um 09:55 Uhr schrieb Gyorgy Szekely > : > > Hi All, > > I have a message router that routes messages between different types of > producers and consumers. Socket types are router (message > router), dealer (producer, consumer). Currently if a consumer is not fast > enough messages start to queue up (dealer input queue, router > output queue), eventually the router starts to drop messages to avoid > blocking. > > I would like to implement some kind of flow control. With plain TCP I can > rely on the built-in flow control: write blocks if consumer is > overloaded, and producers can be sanctioned by not reading their socket. > > With ZMQ router/dealer I can detect if a consumer is slow by receiving > EAGAIN on send, but as far as I understand I can't "slow down" a > specific producer, because router socket does fair queuing. So I have to do > application layer "stop sending" and "continue" messages and > send them to specific producers... > > Is there any better way to do this? I would rather not reinvent the wheel, > TCP already has a sophisticated mechanism for this. > > Regards, > Gyorgy Szekely > > ___ > zeromq-dev mailing list > zeromq-dev@lists.zeromq.org > https://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev > > ___ > zeromq-dev mailing list > zeromq-dev@lists.zeromq.org > https://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev signature.asc Description: PGP signature ___ zeromq-dev mailing list zeromq-dev@lists.zeromq.org https://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev
Re: [zeromq-dev] Flow control with router socket
Hi Gyorgy, back-pressure is something very specific to your application. ZeroMQ itself only implements blocking or dropping depending on the socket types you're using. To implement a credit-based flow have a look into the guide: http://zguide.zeromq.org/page:all#Transferring-Files //Kevin Am Do., 14. Mai 2020 um 09:55 Uhr schrieb Gyorgy Szekely < hodito...@gmail.com>: > Hi All, > > I have a message router that routes messages between different types of > producers and consumers. Socket types are router (message router), dealer > (producer, consumer). Currently if a consumer is not fast enough messages > start to queue up (dealer input queue, router output queue), eventually the > router starts to drop messages to avoid blocking. > > I would like to implement some kind of flow control. With plain TCP I can > rely on the built-in flow control: write blocks if consumer is overloaded, > and producers can be sanctioned by not reading their socket. > > With ZMQ router/dealer I can detect if a consumer is slow by receiving > EAGAIN on send, but as far as I understand I can't "slow down" a specific > producer, because router socket does fair queuing. So I have to do > application layer "stop sending" and "continue" messages and send them to > specific producers... > > Is there any better way to do this? I would rather not reinvent the wheel, > TCP already has a sophisticated mechanism for this. > > Regards, >Gyorgy Szekely > > ___ > zeromq-dev mailing list > zeromq-dev@lists.zeromq.org > https://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev > ___ zeromq-dev mailing list zeromq-dev@lists.zeromq.org https://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev
[zeromq-dev] Flow control with router socket
Hi All, I have a message router that routes messages between different types of producers and consumers. Socket types are router (message router), dealer (producer, consumer). Currently if a consumer is not fast enough messages start to queue up (dealer input queue, router output queue), eventually the router starts to drop messages to avoid blocking. I would like to implement some kind of flow control. With plain TCP I can rely on the built-in flow control: write blocks if consumer is overloaded, and producers can be sanctioned by not reading their socket. With ZMQ router/dealer I can detect if a consumer is slow by receiving EAGAIN on send, but as far as I understand I can't "slow down" a specific producer, because router socket does fair queuing. So I have to do application layer "stop sending" and "continue" messages and send them to specific producers... Is there any better way to do this? I would rather not reinvent the wheel, TCP already has a sophisticated mechanism for this. Regards, Gyorgy Szekely ___ zeromq-dev mailing list zeromq-dev@lists.zeromq.org https://lists.zeromq.org/mailman/listinfo/zeromq-dev
