Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS memory recommendations
et == Erik Trimble erik.trim...@oracle.com writes: et No, you're reading that blog right - dedup is on a per-pool et basis. The way I'm reading that blog is that deduped data is expaned in the ARC. pgpozjcLXZlNV.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS memory recommendations
Miles Nordin wrote: et == Erik Trimble erik.trim...@oracle.com writes: et No, you're reading that blog right - dedup is on a per-pool et basis. The way I'm reading that blog is that deduped data is expaned in the ARC. What I think is being done is this: for pool A and B, each have a separate DDT. That is, if there is an identical block in both pool A and pool B, then BOTH keep a copy of that block - removal of duplicates is only done *inside* a pool.However, if that identical block happens to be read from both pools and stored in the ARC, the new feature will detect that you have an identical block in ARC, and thus only keep a single copy of it cached in ARC. -- Erik Trimble Java System Support Mailstop: usca22-123 Phone: x17195 Santa Clara, CA Timezone: US/Pacific (GMT-0800) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
[zfs-discuss] ZFS memory recommendations
I am currently doing research on how much memory ZFS should have for a storage server. I came across this blog http://constantin.glez.de/blog/2010/04/ten-ways-easily-improve-oracle-solaris-zfs-filesystem-performance It recommends that for every TB of storage you have you want 1GB of RAM just for the metadata. Is this really the case that ZFS metadata consumes so much RAM? I'm currently building a storage server which will eventually hold up to 20TB of storage, I can't fit in 20GB of RAM on the motherboard! -- This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS memory recommendations
On Wed, 19 May 2010, Deon Cui wrote: http://constantin.glez.de/blog/2010/04/ten-ways-easily-improve-oracle-solaris-zfs-filesystem-performance It recommends that for every TB of storage you have you want 1GB of RAM just for the metadata. Interesting conclusion. Is this really the case that ZFS metadata consumes so much RAM? I'm currently building a storage server which will eventually hold up to 20TB of storage, I can't fit in 20GB of RAM on the motherboard! Unless you do something like enable dedup (which is still risky to use), then there is no rule of thumb that I know of. ZFS will take advantage of available RAM. You should have at least 1GB of RAM available for ZFS to use. Beyond that, it depends entirely on the size of your expected working set. The size of accessed files, the randomness of the access, the number of simultaneous accesses, and the maximum number of files per directory all make a difference to how much RAM you should have for good performance. If you have 200TB of stored data, but only actually access 2GB of it at any one time, then the caching requirements are not very high. Bob -- Bob Friesenhahn bfrie...@simple.dallas.tx.us, http://www.simplesystems.org/users/bfriesen/ GraphicsMagick Maintainer,http://www.GraphicsMagick.org/ ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS memory recommendations
- Deon Cui deon@gmail.com skrev: I am currently doing research on how much memory ZFS should have for a storage server. I came across this blog http://constantin.glez.de/blog/2010/04/ten-ways-easily-improve-oracle-solaris-zfs-filesystem-performance It recommends that for every TB of storage you have you want 1GB of RAM just for the metadata. That's for dedup, 150 bytes per block, meaning approx 1GB per 1TB if all (or most) are 128kB blocks, and way more memory (or L2ARC) if you have small files. Vennlige hilsener / Best regards roy -- Roy Sigurd Karlsbakk (+47) 97542685 r...@karlsbakk.net http://blogg.karlsbakk.net/ -- I all pedagogikk er det essensielt at pensum presenteres intelligibelt. Det er et elementært imperativ for alle pedagoger å unngå eksessiv anvendelse av idiomer med fremmed opprinnelse. I de fleste tilfeller eksisterer adekvate og relevante synonymer på norsk. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS memory recommendations
Bob Friesenhahn wrote: On Wed, 19 May 2010, Deon Cui wrote: http://constantin.glez.de/blog/2010/04/ten-ways-easily-improve-oracle-solaris-zfs-filesystem-performance It recommends that for every TB of storage you have you want 1GB of RAM just for the metadata. Interesting conclusion. Is this really the case that ZFS metadata consumes so much RAM? I'm currently building a storage server which will eventually hold up to 20TB of storage, I can't fit in 20GB of RAM on the motherboard! Unless you do something like enable dedup (which is still risky to use), then there is no rule of thumb that I know of. ZFS will take advantage of available RAM. You should have at least 1GB of RAM available for ZFS to use. Beyond that, it depends entirely on the size of your expected working set. The size of accessed files, the randomness of the access, the number of simultaneous accesses, and the maximum number of files per directory all make a difference to how much RAM you should have for good performance. If you have 200TB of stored data, but only actually access 2GB of it at any one time, then the caching requirements are not very high. Bob I'd second Bob's notes here - for non-dedup purposes, you need at a very bare minimum of 512MB of RAM just for ZFS (Bob's recommendation of 1GB is much better, I'm quoting a real basement level beyond which you're effectively crippling ZFS). The primary RAM consumption determination for pools without dedup is the size of your active working set (as Bob mentioned). It's unrealistic to expect to cache /all/ metadata for every file for large pools, and I can't really see the worth in it anyhow (you end up with very infrequently-used metadata sitting in RAM, which gets evicted for use by other things in most cases). Storing any more metadata than what you need for your working set isn't going to bring much performance bonus. What you need to have is sufficient RAM to cache your async writes (remember, this amount is relatively small in most cases - it's 3 pending transactions per pool), plus enough RAM to hold your all the files (plus metadata) you expect to use (i.e. read more than once or write to) within about 5 minutes. Here's three examples to show the differences (all without dedup): (1) 100TB system which contains scientific data used in a data-mining app. The system will need to frequently access very large amounts of the available data, but seldom writes much. As it is doing data-mining, a specific piece of data is read seldom, though the system needs to read large aggregate amounts continuously. In this case, you're pretty much out of luck for caching. You'll need enough RAM to cache your maximum write size, and a little bit for read-ahead, but since you're accessing the pool almost at random for large amounts of data which aren't re-used, caching isn't going to help really at all. In this cases, 1-2GB of RAM is likely all that really can be used. (2) 1TB of data are being used for a Virtual Machine disk server. That is, the machine exports iSCSI (or FCoE, or NFS, or whatever) volumes for use on client hardware to run a VM. Typically in this case, there are lots of effectively random read requests coming in for a bunch of hot files (which tend to be OS files in the VM-hosted OSes). There's also fairly frequent write requests. However, the VMs will do a fair amount of read-caching of their own, so the amount of read requests is lower than one would think. For performance and administrative reasons, it is likely that you will want multiple pools, rather than a single large pool. In this case, you need a reasonable amount of write-cache for *each* pool, plus enough RAM to cache all of the OS files very often used for ALL the VMs. In this case, dedup would actually really help RAM consumption, since it is highly likely that frequently-accessed files from multiple VMs are in fact identical, and thus with dedup, you'd only need to store one copy in the cache. In any case, here you'd need a few GB for the write caching, plus likely a dozen or more GB for read caching, as your working set is moderately large, and frequently re-used. (3) 100TB of data for NFS home directory serving. Access pattern here is likely highly random, with only small amounts of re-used data. However, you'll often have non-trivial write sizes. Having a ZIL is probably a good idea, but in any case, you'll want a couple of GB (call it 3-4) for write caching per pool, and then several dozen MB per active user as read cache. That is, in this case, it's likely that your determining factor is not total data size, but the number of simultaneous users, since the latter will dictate your frequency of file access. I'd say all of the recommendations/insights on the referenced link are good, except for #1. The base amount of RAM is highly variable based on the factors discussed above, and the blanket assumption
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS memory recommendations
et == Erik Trimble erik.trim...@oracle.com writes: et frequently-accessed files from multiple VMs are in fact et identical, and thus with dedup, you'd only need to store one et copy in the cache. although counterintuitive I thought this wasn't part of the initial release. Maybe I'm wrong altogether or maybe it got added later? http://blogs.sun.com/bonwick/en_US/entry/zfs_dedup#comment-1257191094000 pgp4W7jhfu4MV.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] ZFS memory recommendations
Miles Nordin wrote: et == Erik Trimble erik.trim...@oracle.com writes: et frequently-accessed files from multiple VMs are in fact et identical, and thus with dedup, you'd only need to store one et copy in the cache. although counterintuitive I thought this wasn't part of the initial release. Maybe I'm wrong altogether or maybe it got added later? http://blogs.sun.com/bonwick/en_US/entry/zfs_dedup#comment-1257191094000 No, you're reading that blog right - dedup is on a per-pool basis. What I was talking about was inside a single pool. Without dedup enabled on a pool, if I have 2 VM images, both of which are say WinXP, then I'd have to cache identical files twice. With dedup, I'd only have to cache those blocks once, even if they were being accessed by both VMs. So, dedup is both hard on RAM (you need the DDT), and easier (it lowers the amount of actual data blocks which have to be stored in cache). -- Erik Trimble Java System Support Mailstop: usca22-123 Phone: x17195 Santa Clara, CA ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
