Re: [zfs-discuss] Question - does a snapshot of root include child
True, we're already planning to take advantage of ZFS quotas at work. That alone will mean 100+ filesystems as we'll have one for each user. While there are some disadvantages to the quota management I'm used to, overall management of ZFS quotas looks very simple, and the ability to roll back things like individual user profiles is going to be very nice. And we're planning on the same approach on the network, with each separate element given it's own filesystem. While it gives us tons of flexibility and a lot of peace of mind when it comes to snapshots, it means we're going to have in the order of 150 filesystems to backup. However, since everything will be stored within one pool, it's looking very much like zfs snapshot -r and zfs send -r will let us backup our entire network in one go. I'm buring build 78 to CD as we speak to see just how this works. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Question - does a snapshot of root include child
Looking into this further, it looks like this be available in build 77, with zfs snapshot -r a new zfs send -r feature: http://www.opensolaris.org/jive/thread.jspa?messageID=163689 http://www.opensolaris.org/os/community/arc/caselog/2007/574/ http://bugs.opensolaris.org/view_bug.do?bug_id=6421958 This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Question - does a snapshot of root include child
Flexible is right. I knew Unix / Linux traditionally make it possible to do a lot from the command line, but having never used them I'd just assumed they were basically very similar to windows, but with a whole load of extra overhead because of all the commands you had to learn. But after just one day with Solaris I've realised Unix is very, very different to windows, and flexible means an awful lot more in Unix than it does in Windows. Just seeing picker's script is mind boggling for a windows admin. I'd wondered why ZFS didn't have any compression options for zfs send, now I know why: There's just no need in a Unix system. In windows, if ZFS didn't support compression that would be it, in Unix, streams mean there's no need for every program to re-invent features like that, and I can use whatever compression program I think is best. And the ability to use SSH (or X-windows when I feel up to it) to remotely access a box is a godsend. Windows might have RDP these days, but now I know what X-Server can do, I can see it's a poor imitation. I'd originally bought a USB KVM switch to go with my new home server, but now I'm finding it's essentially redundant. I can manage everything on the Solaris box via Putty without ever leaving Windows. It's so far taken about a day to work out ZFS, Samba (and SWAT), vi, bash and SSH. They're all far easier than I expected (man is stunning, windows has nothing like this level of documentation). I thought it would take me most of christmas to find out if this would work, but in one evening I'm done. I've now got a home media server up and running and iTunes has been migrated over to it. Many thanks for the help to everyone who replied, it's very much appreciated. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Question - does a snapshot of root include child
Ross wrote: Flexible is right. I knew Unix / Linux traditionally make it possible to do a lot from the command line, but having never used them I'd just assumed they were basically very similar to windows, but with a whole load of extra overhead because of all the commands you had to learn. But after just one day with Solaris I've realised Unix is very, very different to windows, and flexible means an awful lot more in Unix than it does in Windows. Yes, this is a philosophical difference between UNIX and Windows (nee VMS). The saying goes something like this: with VMS you would spend an hour trying to figure out what options to choose to get something done. With UNIX you spend an hour figuring out what commands to string together to get something done. Just seeing picker's script is mind boggling for a windows admin. I'd wondered why ZFS didn't have any compression options for zfs send, now I know why: There's just no need in a Unix system. In windows, if ZFS didn't support compression that would be it, in Unix, streams mean there's no need for every program to re-invent features like that, and I can use whatever compression program I think is best. Welcome to the UNIX world :-) -- richard ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Question - does a snapshot of root include child
Ross wrote: It's so far taken about a day to work out ZFS, Samba (and SWAT), vi, bash and SSH. Try b78 - it's got the new native CIFS (SMB) server. And it's integrated with zfs, so you can create a windows-accessible share as easily as: zfs create -o sharesmb=name=sharename poolname/zfsname R. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Question - does a snapshot of root include child
The recursive option creates a separate snapshot for every child filesystem, making backup management more difficult if there are many child filesystems. The ability to natively create a single snapshot/backup of an entire ZFS hierarchy of filesystems would be a very nice thing indeed. This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Question - does a snapshot of root include child
Aye, that's what I was hoping for. Since ZFS seems to support nesting filesystems, I was hoping that each filesystem would contain the others, so a snapshot of the root filesystem would also be a snapshot of the others. I'm still not sure if that's the case or not, it could be that -r just means you have individual snapshots as well (handy for restores). Going to do some testing now I have zfs running, if it comes to it I'm hoping I can use -r and script a backup of all the filesystems. Scripting zfs send from that shouldn't be too hard, I'm just hoping it's not going to be too complex to script the zfs receive side of it. I guess the ideal for me would be for filesystems to include child filesystems in their snaphots and for zfs snapshot -r to recursively snapshot each filesystem, starting from the topmost branches of the tree and working backwards. That would mean you could backup the entire system by just copying one snapshot, but you would have contained within that individual snapshots for each child filesystem. Apologies for my inconsistent (or just plain wrong) use of terminology. I've only started using ZFS this week, and hadn't even touched a Unix system before that! This message posted from opensolaris.org ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Question - does a snapshot of root include child
I've only started using ZFS this week, and hadn't even touched a Unix welcome to ZFS... here is a simple script you can start with: #!/bin/sh snaps=15 today=`date +%j` nuke=`expr $today - $snaps` yesterday=`expr $today - 1` if [ $yesterday -lt 0 ] ; then yesterday=365 fi if [ $nuke -lt 0 ] ; then nuke=`expr 365 + $nuke` fi zfs destroy -r [EMAIL PROTECTED] zfs snapshot -r [EMAIL PROTECTED] zfs destroy -r [EMAIL PROTECTED] zfs snapshot -r [EMAIL PROTECTED] zfs send -i z/[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | bzip2 -c | ssh some.host.com bzcat | zfs recv -v -F -d z zfs send -i z/[EMAIL PROTECTED]z/[EMAIL PROTECTED]| bzip2 -c | ssh some.host.com bzcat | zfs recv -v -F -d z zfs send -i z/[EMAIL PROTECTED] z/[EMAIL PROTECTED] | bzip2 -c | ssh some.host.com bzcat | zfs recv -v -F -d z ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Question - does a snapshot of root include child
Ross wrote: Aye, that's what I was hoping for. Since ZFS seems to support nesting filesystems, I was hoping that each filesystem would contain the others, so a snapshot of the root filesystem would also be a snapshot of the others. IMHO, a file system is created only when you need to change its policies. For example, I might want a read-only file system and a compressed file system, so I would make two file systems. If you want the same policies for each file system, you'd be better off using directories. Continuing the policies decision, one of the policies may be backup frequency (I really don't care to backup my music every day, but I would like to backup my home directory every day). I'm still not sure if that's the case or not, it could be that -r just means you have individual snapshots as well (handy for restores). Going to do some testing now I have zfs running, if it comes to it I'm hoping I can use -r and script a backup of all the filesystems. Scripting zfs send from that shouldn't be too hard, I'm just hoping it's not going to be too complex to script the zfs receive side of it. Good idea, scripting tends to eliminate fumble-fingers failure modes :-) I guess the ideal for me would be for filesystems to include child filesystems in their snaphots and for zfs snapshot -r to recursively snapshot each filesystem, starting from the topmost branches of the tree and working backwards. There are many other ways to copy a directory structure, including cp (copy). That would mean you could backup the entire system by just copying one snapshot, but you would have contained within that individual snapshots for each child filesystem. Apologies for my inconsistent (or just plain wrong) use of terminology. I've only started using ZFS this week, and hadn't even touched a Unix system before that! Welcome! I hope you find Unix to be a very flexible system. -- richard ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Question - does a snapshot of root include child filesystems?
On Wed, 19 Dec 2007, Ross wrote: The title says it all really, we'll be creating one big zpool here, with many sub filesystems for various systems. Am I right in thinking that we can use snapshots of the root filesystem to take a complete backup of everything? I believe what you're looking for is 'zfs snapshot -r' Regards, markm ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Question - does a snapshot of root include child filesystems?
Ross wrote: The title says it all really, we'll be creating one big zpool here, with many sub filesystems for various systems. Am I right in thinking that we can use snapshots of the root filesystem to take a complete backup of everything? This question doesn't really make sense. But it looks like you're wanting to use the -r option (recursive) for zfs snapshot. -- richard ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
