Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
Dale Ghent wrote: Yeah sure it might eat into STK profits, but one will still have to go there for redundant controllers. Repeat after me: There is no STK. There is only Sun. 8-) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Jan 31, 2007, at 4:26 AM, Selim Daoud wrote: you can still do some lun masking at the HBA level (Solaris 10) this feature is call blacklist Oh, I'd do that but Solaris isn't the only OS that uses arrays on my SAN, and other hosts even cross-departmental. Thus masking from the array is a must to keep the amount of host-based tomfoolery to a minimum. /dale ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 10:19:29AM -0800, Frank Cusack wrote: On January 24, 2007 10:04:04 AM -0800 Bryan Cantrill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:46:11AM -0800, Moazam Raja wrote: Well, he did say fairly cheap. the ST 3511 is about $18.5k. That's about the same price for the low-end NetApp FAS250 unit. Note that the 3511 is being replaced with the 6140: Which is MUCH nicer but also much pricier. Also, no non-RAID option. So there's no way to treat a 6140 as JBOD? If you wanted to use a 6140 with ZFS, and really wanted JBOD, your only choice would be a RAID 0 config on the 6140? -- albert chin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
Albert Chin wrote: On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 10:19:29AM -0800, Frank Cusack wrote: On January 24, 2007 10:04:04 AM -0800 Bryan Cantrill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:46:11AM -0800, Moazam Raja wrote: Well, he did say fairly cheap. the ST 3511 is about $18.5k. That's about the same price for the low-end NetApp FAS250 unit. Note that the 3511 is being replaced with the 6140: Which is MUCH nicer but also much pricier. Also, no non-RAID option. So there's no way to treat a 6140 as JBOD? If you wanted to use a 6140 with ZFS, and really wanted JBOD, your only choice would be a RAID 0 config on the 6140? Why would you want to treat a 6140 like a JBOD? (See the previous threads about JBOD vs HW RAID...) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Jan 25, 2007, at 10:16, Torrey McMahon wrote: Albert Chin wrote: On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 10:19:29AM -0800, Frank Cusack wrote: On January 24, 2007 10:04:04 AM -0800 Bryan Cantrill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:46:11AM -0800, Moazam Raja wrote: Well, he did say fairly cheap. the ST 3511 is about $18.5k. That's about the same price for the low-end NetApp FAS250 unit. Note that the 3511 is being replaced with the 6140: Which is MUCH nicer but also much pricier. Also, no non-RAID option. So there's no way to treat a 6140 as JBOD? If you wanted to use a 6140 with ZFS, and really wanted JBOD, your only choice would be a RAID 0 config on the 6140? Why would you want to treat a 6140 like a JBOD? (See the previous threads about JBOD vs HW RAID...) I was trying to see if we sold the CSM2 trays without the controller, but I don't think that's commonly asked for .. reminds me of the old D1000 days - i seem to recall putting in more of those as the A1000 controllers weren't the greatest and people tended to opt for s/w mirrors instead. Then as the system application load went higher and the data became more critical the push was towards offloading this onto better storage controllers .. so since it seems like we now have more processing and bus speed on the system that applications aren't taking advantage of yet, it looks like the pendulum might be swinging back towards host-based RAID again. not a verdict .. just a thought --- .je ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 10:16:47AM -0500, Torrey McMahon wrote: Albert Chin wrote: On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 10:19:29AM -0800, Frank Cusack wrote: On January 24, 2007 10:04:04 AM -0800 Bryan Cantrill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:46:11AM -0800, Moazam Raja wrote: Well, he did say fairly cheap. the ST 3511 is about $18.5k. That's about the same price for the low-end NetApp FAS250 unit. Note that the 3511 is being replaced with the 6140: Which is MUCH nicer but also much pricier. Also, no non-RAID option. So there's no way to treat a 6140 as JBOD? If you wanted to use a 6140 with ZFS, and really wanted JBOD, your only choice would be a RAID 0 config on the 6140? Why would you want to treat a 6140 like a JBOD? (See the previous threads about JBOD vs HW RAID...) Well, a 6140 with RAID 10 is not an option because we don't want to lose 50% disk capacity. So, we're left with RAID 5. Yes, we could layer ZFS on top of this. But what do you do if you want RAID 6? Easiest way to get it is ZFS RAIDZ2 on top of JBOD. The only reason I'd consider RAID is if the HW RAID performance was enough of a win over ZFS SW RAID. -- albert chin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On January 25, 2007 11:22:41 AM -0500 Jonathan Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 25, 2007, at 10:16, Torrey McMahon wrote: Albert Chin wrote: So there's no way to treat a 6140 as JBOD? If you wanted to use a 6140 with ZFS, and really wanted JBOD, your only choice would be a RAID 0 config on the 6140? Why would you want to treat a 6140 like a JBOD? (See the previous threads about JBOD vs HW RAID...) I was trying to see if we sold the CSM2 trays without the controller, but I don't think that's commonly asked for Best I could tell, the connector was proprietary so even if you could get the tray by itself you couldn't attach it to your host. -frank ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 10:16 -0500, Torrey McMahon wrote: So there's no way to treat a 6140 as JBOD? If you wanted to use a 6140 with ZFS, and really wanted JBOD, your only choice would be a RAID 0 config on the 6140? Why would you want to treat a 6140 like a JBOD? (See the previous threads about JBOD vs HW RAID...) Let's turn this around. Assume I want a FC JBOD. What should I get? - Bill ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Jan 25, 2007, at 14:34, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 10:16 -0500, Torrey McMahon wrote: So there's no way to treat a 6140 as JBOD? If you wanted to use a 6140 with ZFS, and really wanted JBOD, your only choice would be a RAID 0 config on the 6140? Why would you want to treat a 6140 like a JBOD? (See the previous threads about JBOD vs HW RAID...) Let's turn this around. Assume I want a FC JBOD. What should I get? perhaps something coming real soon .. (stall) --- .je btw - I've also said you could do a FC target in a thumper a la FalconStor .. but i'm not sure if they've got that going on S10, and their target multipathing was less than stellar .. we did have a target mode driver at one point, but i think that project got scrapped a while back. ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 10:16 -0500, Torrey McMahon wrote: So there's no way to treat a 6140 as JBOD? If you wanted to use a 6140 with ZFS, and really wanted JBOD, your only choice would be a RAID 0 config on the 6140? Why would you want to treat a 6140 like a JBOD? (See the previous threads about JBOD vs HW RAID...) Let's turn this around. Assume I want a FC JBOD. What should I get? Hi Bill, Many companies make FC expansion boxes to go along with their FC based hardware RAID arrays. Often, the expansion chassis is identical to the RAID equipped chassis - same power supplies, same physical chassis and disk drive carriers - the only difference is that the slots used to house the (dual) RAID H/W controllers have been blanked off. These expansion chassis are designed to be daisy chained back to the box with the H/W RAID. So you simply use one of the expansion chassis and attach it directly to a system equipped with an FC HBA and ... you've got an FC JBOD. Nearly all of them will support two FC connections to allow dual redundant connections to the FC RAID H/W. So if you equip your ZFS host with either a dual-port FC HBA or two single-port FC HBAs - you have a pretty good redundant FC JBOD solution. An example of such an expansion box is the DS4000 EXP100 from IBM. It's also possible to purchase a 3510FC box from Sun with no RAID controllers - but their nearest equivalent of an empty box comes with 6 (overpriced) disk drives pre-installed. :( Perhaps you could use your vast influence at Sun to persuade them to sell an empty 3510FC box? Or an empty box bundled with a single or dual-port FC card (Qlogic based please). Well - there's no harm in making the suggestion ... right? Regards, Al Hopper Logical Approach Inc, Plano, TX. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Voice: 972.379.2133 Fax: 972.379.2134 Timezone: US CDT OpenSolaris.Org Community Advisory Board (CAB) Member - Apr 2005 OpenSolaris Governing Board (OGB) Member - Feb 2006 ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 02:24:47PM -0600, Al Hopper wrote: On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 10:16 -0500, Torrey McMahon wrote: So there's no way to treat a 6140 as JBOD? If you wanted to use a 6140 with ZFS, and really wanted JBOD, your only choice would be a RAID 0 config on the 6140? Why would you want to treat a 6140 like a JBOD? (See the previous threads about JBOD vs HW RAID...) Let's turn this around. Assume I want a FC JBOD. What should I get? Many companies make FC expansion boxes to go along with their FC based hardware RAID arrays. Often, the expansion chassis is identical to the RAID equipped chassis - same power supplies, same physical chassis and disk drive carriers - the only difference is that the slots used to house the (dual) RAID H/W controllers have been blanked off. These expansion chassis are designed to be daisy chained back to the box with the H/W RAID. So you simply use one of the expansion chassis and attach it directly to a system equipped with an FC HBA and ... you've got an FC JBOD. Nearly all of them will support two FC connections to allow dual redundant connections to the FC RAID H/W. So if you equip your ZFS host with either a dual-port FC HBA or two single-port FC HBAs - you have a pretty good redundant FC JBOD solution. An example of such an expansion box is the DS4000 EXP100 from IBM. It's also possible to purchase a 3510FC box from Sun with no RAID controllers - but their nearest equivalent of an empty box comes with 6 (overpriced) disk drives pre-installed. :( Perhaps you could use your vast influence at Sun to persuade them to sell an empty 3510FC box? Or an empty box bundled with a single or dual-port FC card (Qlogic based please). Well - there's no harm in making the suggestion ... right? Well, when you buy disk for the Sun 5320 NAS Appliance, you get a Controller Unit shelf and, if you expand storage, an Expansion Unit shelf that connects to the Controller Unit. Maybe the Expansion Unit shelf is a JBOD 6140? -- albert chin ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Jan 25, 2007, at 17:30, Albert Chin wrote: On Thu, Jan 25, 2007 at 02:24:47PM -0600, Al Hopper wrote: On Thu, 25 Jan 2007, Bill Sommerfeld wrote: On Thu, 2007-01-25 at 10:16 -0500, Torrey McMahon wrote: So there's no way to treat a 6140 as JBOD? If you wanted to use a 6140 with ZFS, and really wanted JBOD, your only choice would be a RAID 0 config on the 6140? Why would you want to treat a 6140 like a JBOD? (See the previous threads about JBOD vs HW RAID...) Let's turn this around. Assume I want a FC JBOD. What should I get? Many companies make FC expansion boxes to go along with their FC based hardware RAID arrays. Often, the expansion chassis is identical to the RAID equipped chassis - same power supplies, same physical chassis and disk drive carriers - the only difference is that the slots used to house the (dual) RAID H/W controllers have been blanked off. These expansion chassis are designed to be daisy chained back to the box with the H/W RAID. So you simply use one of the expansion chassis and attach it directly to a system equipped with an FC HBA and ... you've got an FC JBOD. Nearly all of them will support two FC connections to allow dual redundant connections to the FC RAID H/W. So if you equip your ZFS host with either a dual-port FC HBA or two single-port FC HBAs - you have a pretty good redundant FC JBOD solution. An example of such an expansion box is the DS4000 EXP100 from IBM. It's also possible to purchase a 3510FC box from Sun with no RAID controllers - but their nearest equivalent of an empty box comes with 6 (overpriced) disk drives pre-installed. :( Perhaps you could use your vast influence at Sun to persuade them to sell an empty 3510FC box? Or an empty box bundled with a single or dual-port FC card (Qlogic based please). Well - there's no harm in making the suggestion ... right? Well, when you buy disk for the Sun 5320 NAS Appliance, you get a Controller Unit shelf and, if you expand storage, an Expansion Unit shelf that connects to the Controller Unit. Maybe the Expansion Unit shelf is a JBOD 6140? that's the CSM200 - the IOMs in that should just take a 2Gb or 4Gb SFP (copper or fibre) and the tray should run switched loop so you can mix FC and SATA as it connects back to the 6140 or 6540 controller head. --- .je ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Jan 24, 2007, at 09:25, Peter Eriksson wrote: too much of our future roadmap, suffice it to say that one should expect much, much more from Sun in this vein: innovative software and innovative hardware working together to deliver world-beating systems with undeniable economics. Yes please. Now give me a fairly cheap (but still quality) FC- attached JBOD utilizing SATA/SAS disks and I'll be really happy! :-) Could you outline why FC attached instead of network attached (iSCSI say) makes more sense to you? It might help to illustrate the demand for an FC target I'm hearing instead of just a network target .. .je ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
Peter Eriksson wrote: too much of our future roadmap, suffice it to say that one should expect much, much more from Sun in this vein: innovative software and innovative hardware working together to deliver world-beating systems with undeniable economics. Yes please. Now give me a fairly cheap (but still quality) FC-attached JBOD utilizing SATA/SAS disks and I'll be really happy! :-) ... with write cache and dual redundant controllers? I think we call that the Sun StorageTek 3511. -- richard ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
Well, he did say fairly cheap. the ST 3511 is about $18.5k. That's about the same price for the low-end NetApp FAS250 unit. -Moazam On Jan 24, 2007, at 9:40 AM, Richard Elling wrote: Peter Eriksson wrote: too much of our future roadmap, suffice it to say that one should expect much, much more from Sun in this vein: innovative software and innovative hardware working together to deliver world-beating systems with undeniable economics. Yes please. Now give me a fairly cheap (but still quality) FC- attached JBOD utilizing SATA/SAS disks and I'll be really happy! :-) ... with write cache and dual redundant controllers? I think we call that the Sun StorageTek 3511. -- richard ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:46:11AM -0800, Moazam Raja wrote: Well, he did say fairly cheap. the ST 3511 is about $18.5k. That's about the same price for the low-end NetApp FAS250 unit. Note that the 3511 is being replaced with the 6140: http://www.sun.com/storagetek/disk_systems/midrange/6140/ Also, don't read too much into the prices you see on the website -- that's the list price, and doesn't reflect any discounting. If you're interested in what it _actually_ costs, you should talk to a Sun rep or one of our channel partners to get a quote. (And lest anyone attack the messenger: I'm not defending this system of getting an accurate price, I'm just describing it.) - Bryan -- Bryan Cantrill, Solaris Kernel Development. http://blogs.sun.com/bmc ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, Jonathan Edwards wrote: Yes please. Now give me a fairly cheap (but still quality) FC-attached JBOD utilizing SATA/SAS disks and I'll be really happy! :-) Could you outline why FC attached instead of network attached (iSCSI say) makes more sense to you? It might help to illustrate the demand for an FC target I'm hearing instead of just a network target .. Dunno about FC or iSCSI, but what I'd really like to see is a 1U direct attach 8-drive SAS JBOD, as described (back in May 2006!) here: http://richteer.blogspot.com/2006/05/sun-storage-product-i-would-like-to.html Modulo the UltraSCSI 320 stuff perhaps. Given that other vendors have released something similar, and how strong Sun's entry-level server offerings are, I can't believe that Sun hasn't annouced something like this, to bring their entry-level storage offerings up to the bar set by their servers... -- Rich Teer, SCSA, SCNA, SCSECA, OpenSolaris CAB member President, Rite Online Inc. Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On 1/24/07, Jonathan Edwards [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jan 24, 2007, at 09:25, Peter Eriksson wrote: too much of our future roadmap, suffice it to say that one should expect much, much more from Sun in this vein: innovative software and innovative hardware working together to deliver world-beating systems with undeniable economics. Yes please. Now give me a fairly cheap (but still quality) FC- attached JBOD utilizing SATA/SAS disks and I'll be really happy! :-) Could you outline why FC attached instead of network attached (iSCSI say) makes more sense to you? It might help to illustrate the demand for an FC target I'm hearing instead of just a network target .. I'm not generally for FC-attached storage, but we've documented here many times how the round trip latency with iSCSI hasn't been the perfect match with ZFS and NFS (think NAS). You need either IB or FC right now to make that workable. Some day though.. either with nvram-backed NFS or cheap 10Gig-E... .je ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On January 24, 2007 9:40:41 AM -0800 Richard Elling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Eriksson wrote: Yes please. Now give me a fairly cheap (but still quality) FC-attached JBOD utilizing SATA/SAS disks and I'll be really happy! :-) ... with write cache and dual redundant controllers? I think we call that the Sun StorageTek 3511. Ah but the 3511 JBOD is not supported for direct attach to a host, nor is it supported for attachment to a SAN. You have to have a 3510 or 3511 with RAID controller to use the 3511 JBOD. The RAID controller is pretty pricey on these guys. $5k each IIRC. On January 24, 2007 10:04:04 AM -0800 Bryan Cantrill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:46:11AM -0800, Moazam Raja wrote: Well, he did say fairly cheap. the ST 3511 is about $18.5k. That's about the same price for the low-end NetApp FAS250 unit. Note that the 3511 is being replaced with the 6140: Which is MUCH nicer but also much pricier. Also, no non-RAID option. You can get a 4Gb FC-SATA RAID with 12*750gb drives for about $10k from third parties. I doubt we'll ever see that from Sun if for no other reason just due to the drive markups. (Which might be justified based on drive qualification; I'm not making any comment as to whether the markup is warranted or not, just that it exists and is obscene.) But you still can't beat thumper overall. I believe S10U3 has iSCSI target support? If so, there you go. Not on the low end in absolute $$$ but certainly in $/GB per bits/sec. Probably better on power too compared to equivalent solutions. -frank ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On January 24, 2007 10:02:52 AM -0800 Rich Teer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dunno about FC or iSCSI, but what I'd really like to see is a 1U direct attach 8-drive SAS JBOD, as described (back in May 2006!) here: http://richteer.blogspot.com/2006/05/sun-storage-product-i-would-like-to.html The problem with that is the 2.5 drives are too expensive and too small. -frank ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On 24 Jan 2007, at 13:04, Bryan Cantrill wrote: On Wed, Jan 24, 2007 at 09:46:11AM -0800, Moazam Raja wrote: Well, he did say fairly cheap. the ST 3511 is about $18.5k. That's about the same price for the low-end NetApp FAS250 unit. Note that the 3511 is being replaced with the 6140: http://www.sun.com/storagetek/disk_systems/midrange/6140/ Also, don't read too much into the prices you see on the website -- that's the list price, and doesn't reflect any discounting. If you're interested in what it _actually_ costs, you should talk to a Sun rep or one of our channel partners to get a quote. (And lest anyone attack the messenger: I'm not defending this system of getting an accurate price, I'm just describing it.) If your company can qualify as a start-up (4 year old or less with less than 150 employees) you may want to look at the Sun Startup essentials program. It provides Sun hardware at big discounts for startups. http://www.sun.com/emrkt/startupessentials/ For an idea on the levels of discounts see http://kalsey.com/2006/11/sun_startup_essentials_pricing/ -Angelo - Bryan --- --- Bryan Cantrill, Solaris Kernel Development. http://blogs.sun.com/bmc ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
Frank Cusack wrote: On January 24, 2007 9:40:41 AM -0800 Richard Elling [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Peter Eriksson wrote: Yes please. Now give me a fairly cheap (but still quality) FC-attached JBOD utilizing SATA/SAS disks and I'll be really happy! :-) ... with write cache and dual redundant controllers? I think we call that the Sun StorageTek 3511. Ah but the 3511 JBOD is not supported for direct attach to a host, nor is it supported for attachment to a SAN. You have to have a 3510 or 3511 with RAID controller to use the 3511 JBOD. The RAID controller is pretty pricey on these guys. $5k each IIRC. I started looking into the 3511 for a ZFS system and just about immediately stopped considering it for this reason. If it is not supported in JBOD, then I might as well go get a third party JBOD at the same level of support. You can get a 4Gb FC-SATA RAID with 12*750gb drives for about $10k from third parties. I doubt we'll ever see that from Sun if for no other reason just due to the drive markups. (Which might be justified based on drive qualification; I'm not making any comment as to whether the markup is warranted or not, just that it exists and is obscene.) Yep. I went with a third party FC/SATA unit which has been flawless as a direct attach for my ZFS JBOD system. Paid about $0.70/GB. And I still have enough money left over this year to upgrade my network core. If I would have gone with Sun, I wouldn't be able to push as many bits across my network. I just don't know how people can afford Sun storage, or even if they can, what drives them to pay such premiums. Sun is missing out on lots of lower end storage, but perhaps that is by design. I am a small shop by many standards, but I would have spent tens of thousands over the last few years with Sun if they had reasonably priced storage. shrug I just need a place to put my bits. Doesn't need to be the fastest, bleeding edge stuff. Just a bucket that performs reasonably, and preferably one that I can use with ZFS. -Shannon ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
On Wed, 24 Jan 2007, Shannon Roddy wrote: Sun is missing out on lots of lower end storage, but perhaps that is by design. I am a small shop by many standards, but I would have spent tens of thousands over the last few years with Sun if they had reasonably priced storage. shrug I just need a place to put my bits. Doesn't need to be the fastest, bleeding edge stuff. Just a bucket that performs reasonably, and preferably one that I can use with ZFS. +1 -- Rich Teer, SCSA, SCNA, SCSECA, OpenSolaris CAB member President, Rite Online Inc. Voice: +1 (250) 979-1638 URL: http://www.rite-group.com/rich ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
Re: [zfs-discuss] Re: Thumper Origins Q
Ben Gollmer wrote: On Jan 24, 2007, at 12:37 PM, Shannon Roddy wrote: I went with a third party FC/SATA unit which has been flawless as a direct attach for my ZFS JBOD system. Paid about $0.70/GB. What did you use, if you don't mind my asking? Arena Janus 6641. Turns out I underestimated what I paid per GB. I went back and dug up the invoice and I paid just under $1/GB. My memory was a little off on the 750 GB drive prices. I used an LSI Logic FC card that was listed on the Solaris Ready page, and I am using the LSI Logic driver. http://www.sun.com/io_technologies/vendor/lsi_logic_corporation.html Works fine for our purposes, but again, we don't need screaming bleeding edge performance either. -Shannon ___ zfs-discuss mailing list zfs-discuss@opensolaris.org http://mail.opensolaris.org/mailman/listinfo/zfs-discuss
