[Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI
I have a basic version of Zopache running internally. It is a zope-2 like ZMI running on top of grok on top of ZTK. ZTK is really very nicely written. Grok makes it so much easier to use the ZTK. I an focused on using it to build my next generation recruiting website, but it would be good to have someone to talk to about this stuff. It is very very hard to find anyone who both appreciates TTW development, and understands the multiple layers of ZTK and Grok. Anyhow if you are curious I am clozinski on skype. Regards Chris ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Christopher Lozinski wrote: It is very very hard to find anyone who both appreciates TTW development, and understands the multiple layers of ZTK and Grok. Guess why? Because it is technology of the last decade and everybody moved on?! - -aj -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (Darwin) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org/ iQGUBAEBAgAGBQJT2NLQAAoJEADcfz7u4AZjFuYLvR5aokf1m9Knxfte1FZGZDnE PbiyOrQuMcKgzs0AXn7QtYBvMfeELc/FUZRC9T8O5jnadpwhm5hmry+HhyAU+RJk ht0izl85K2TU+eG7zLJUYtqF81I3zHof/n/Enb85+s/r8dHi5ODW9IoJ17iJp5GI kmeT8Jz8hRIfqdkFcLDViSxFGri9OpNinIEu+vTHm04831hacyLy+03dpKQyo1Pe tSwv2d24+Fp7ZoqVzGC1EkRKr+B6Ms9duhQ4hBDZxW0bGndno/bBtw49Vqtw7g7/ Q8I884dITLUE2SN4pbBOIguc7bbs0PLGaC+W/Y6s8CXUad8bRMaGdqu7VS4oUOaT PVa1UMDhhX/+ADfDFReFJpPonKl5vTLjC99Y0UvxvzQfudmKvRr4JwjxUw68HsHT jVdrslv9m5I2eQ9Jk1DiC9o/m41iNIQfD4eUoKFeL5IBOtXpoO2ZYhHliXxH4db7 Tu6zjjrxqfmIqxvsnLDT7wcpbp+OJBQ= =Lm0c -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI
On 7/30/14, 3:59 PM, Eric Bréhault wrote: Hello, Did you have a look to Substance D ? http://substanced.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ Yes I did. Thank you. Someone on the Grok mailing list mentioned it. My understanding is that Pyramid is based on ZTK, but not on Grok. Personally I find ZTK way too painful to use. In contrast Grok is really quite easy to use. Regards Chris ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI
Hello, Did you have a look to Substance D ? http://substanced.readthedocs.org/en/latest/ It is based on Pyramid, it uses a ZODB for storage, and it provides a ZMI like management interface. And you can use all the good ZCA stuff if you want to. Eric On Wed, Jul 30, 2014 at 12:56 PM, Christopher Lozinski lozin...@freerecruiting.com wrote: I have a basic version of Zopache running internally. It is a zope-2 like ZMI running on top of grok on top of ZTK. ZTK is really very nicely written. Grok makes it so much easier to use the ZTK. I an focused on using it to build my next generation recruiting website, but it would be good to have someone to talk to about this stuff. It is very very hard to find anyone who both appreciates TTW development, and understands the multiple layers of ZTK and Grok. Anyhow if you are curious I am clozinski on skype. Regards Chris ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI
On 7/30/14, 2:11 PM, Andreas Jung wrote: Guess why? Because it is technology of the last decade Maybe, but Unix file system development is at least 36 years old. Is that what you are still using? Technology from the last century? http://www3.alcatel-lucent.com/bstj/vol57-1978/articles/bstj57-6-1905.pdf Regards Chris ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI
On 7/30/14, 6:32 PM, zopyxfil...@gmail.com wrote: Pyramid uses _some_ ZTK modules internally however the ZTK stuff is not exposed to Pyramid. Thank You. That is why I love Grok and ZTK. It is this rich library of extensible python components conforming to ZCA. Maybe Pyramid is closer to a framework, very stripped down, the ZCA is hidden. Pyramid uses ZCA, but does not encourage it. Grok is really a rich library of reusable components. I am only sorry that more people are not actively developing on Grok and ZCA. Chris ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI
Christopher Lozinski wrote: On 7/30/14, 6:32 PM, zopyxfil...@gmail.com wrote: Pyramid uses _some_ ZTK modules internally however the ZTK stuff is not exposed to Pyramid. Thank You. That is why I love Grok and ZTK. It is this rich library of extensible python components conforming to ZCA. Maybe Pyramid is closer to a framework, very stripped down, the ZCA is hidden. Pyramid uses ZCA, but does not encourage it. Grok is really a rich library of reusable components. I am only sorry that more people are not actively developing on Grok and ZCA. This is your annual complaint for 2014? Andreas ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI
On 7/30/14, 8:01 PM, Andreas Jung wrote: I am only sorry that more people are not actively developing on Grok and ZCA. This is your annual complaint for 2014? It is not a complaint. It is really more of a question. Let me spell it out in detail. I would think that the world has to move to massive class libraries of reusable software components, maybe not on the client side, because it takes time to download, but certainly on the server side. Not in statically bound languages like Java or C++, but in dynamically bound languages, like like python or C#. The only significant python component architecture I know of is ZCA. Maybe there is one in C# So I would expect lots of people to be using ZCA, most easily in Grok.And Grok is quite easy to use. And yet that is not happening. Why not i wonder? There is one prominent blogger who explained he just got too frustrated, but mostly people do not post their stories of failures. They just disappear, so it is hard to abstract what the problems are. Chris ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI
On 07/30/2014 12:56 PM, Christopher Lozinski wrote: I have a basic version of Zopache running internally. It is a zope-2 like ZMI running on top of grok on top of ZTK. ZTK is really very nicely written. Grok makes it so much easier to use the ZTK. I an focused on using it to build my next generation recruiting website, but it would be good to have someone to talk to about this stuff. It is very very hard to find anyone who both appreciates TTW development, and understands the multiple layers of ZTK and Grok. I am a quite happy user of zope 2.9.x, although most likely my application will have to be ported to tomcat (using jython) in the short term. I keep data in MySQL, I had to replace most products with Extensions for lack of support, didn't use the TTW classes. I use little of the zope API and no roles (I use my own security roles in the database) . I like the ZMI, error_log, Zope DB Adapter, ZSQL, and Python Scripts which hide the web machinery from me. I like the easy access to the running environment for testing and maintenance purposes. I love the ZPT and Python. I have a nice UI/BusinessRules/DataAccess architecture that makes it easy to do maintenance at minimal cost. It is very easy to jump in and fix/improve code, especially considering I only do it on occasion. There are of course limitations to this environment, in particular for developers that need all the file system tools for development and collaboration. But has it stands, it is very cost effective for some use cases. I don't know about ZTK, Grok. Fernando Martins Anyhow if you are curious I am clozinski on skype. Regards Chris ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Zopache = ZTK + Grok + ZMI
On 7/30/14, 10:50 PM, Fernando Martins wrote: I don't know about ZTK, Grok. Well let me start of by describing them, and some history, so that we are all on the page. At the risk of overloading the term, so that we share the same context. First there was Zope 2. It was pretty cool for its time. Lots of people jumped on board, and created many products. That is when the trouble started. If Zope 2 did not meet the needs of the product developers, it was monkey patched. Meaning people would replace a python method at run-time. This was fine until two products would monkey patch the same method. This caused trouble. Something better was needed. So they moved to the Zope Comjponent Architecture (ZCA). Really they should have called it the python component architecture. Huge marketing error. ZCA manages adaptors. An adaptor is a small python object that points to the original object. The adaptor can have the new needed method on it. All other methods are dispatched to the original object. If two users of the same object want to replace the same method, they just use two different adaptors. So Zope 3 was born. It had a nice ZMI, but no acquisition, and this weird registration stuff. Worse yet file system development in Zope 3 with ZCML registrations was just too painful. And the security was way too tight. Everything was forbidden until explicitly permitted. So along came Grok. Without going into detail it made it quite reasonable to do file system development. And it simplified security. Everything is possible, unless forbidden. Much closer to what I want. So that was progress. But it was still too complicated. And there were too many circular dependencies. And there is a huge community who did not like the ZMI, and so they split Zope 3 into two parts. Zope.* and zope.app.* The later had all the GUI stuff. The zope.* part without the GUI they called ZTK. Okay so that tells you what ZTK and Grok are. Back to your application. On 7/30/14, 10:50 PM, Fernando Martins wrote: (I use my own security roles in the database) . Well that is very interesting. One of my biggest complaints about Zope 2 was the security model. Security was on the instances. Not possible to just make security declarations on the classes, without having to also declare it on the instances. So I am hugely curious about your security model.The grok security model, while better than ZTK, still leaves a lot to be desired. Fortunately it is quite easy to replace. On 7/30/14, 10:50 PM, Fernando Martins wrote: although most likely my application will have to be ported to tomcat (using jython) in the short term. Why tomcat? I would think that there would be many native python web servers you could use. Have you considered Pyramid. It also uses the ZODB and traversal. ___ Zope maillist - Zope@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope-CMF] cmf-tests -
This is the summary for test reports received on the cmf-tests list between 2014-07-29 00:00:00 UTC and 2014-07-30 00:00:00 UTC: See the footnotes for test reports of unsuccessful builds. An up-to date view of the builders is also available in our buildbot documentation: http://docs.zope.org/zopetoolkit/process/buildbots.html#the-nightly-builds Reports received Non-OK results -- ___ Zope-CMF maillist - Zope-CMF@zope.org https://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-cmf See https://bugs.launchpad.net/zope-cmf/ for bug reports and feature requests
