Re: [Zope] Not like ASP complaint - any good answers
Sean McGrath wrote: All, I have had a number of e-mails from developers using Microsoft ASP in recent days. The paraphrased consensus in the e-mails is that the external methods/python methods approach to mixing markup with code in Zope is more clunky than in ASP where you can intermingle the two at will. Has anyone written anything on this topic I could point them to? asp+ (the next version of asp) will be following Zope's lead of template style setups, seperating code from content. I don't have the release handy, but I saw it last week or so. -- Do not meddle in the affairs of sysadmins, for they are easy to annoy, and have the root password. ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Not like ASP complaint - any good answers
I can't say I see too much difference between the way Zope and ASP accomplish things, Zope has External Methods and Products, ASP has COM objects which I'd say are a darn sight harder to grok. Fact is that if these developers say you can do everything in VB/Jscript in an ASP page then they are sadly mistaken. Phil - Original Message - From: "Sean McGrath" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 9:29 PM Subject: [Zope] Not like ASP complaint - any good answers All, I have had a number of e-mails from developers using Microsoft ASP in recent days. The paraphrased consensus in the e-mails is that the external methods/python methods approach to mixing markup with code in Zope is more clunky than in ASP where you can intermingle the two at will. Has anyone written anything on this topic I could point them to? regards, Sean http://www.pyxie.org - an Open Source XML Processing library for Python ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Not like ASP complaint - any good answers
Sean Just ignore them. I used to be an ASP developer myself not long code ago. What do you mean "intermingle"? If you want to loop though a list or db-table row, you will have to "intermingle" your good old TD and TR tags. There is no way of getting around that in ASP as far as I know, unless something amazing has happens since I left the community. Yes, markup tends to be mixed with external/python methods. I guess that is out of conveniece only. You could: table dtml-var "externalmethod()" /table ...if you really want to make the externalmethod() generic... table tr dtml-in "externalmethod()" sort=whaoo tddtml-var sequence-item/td /dtml-in /tr /table What ever you like! Take control over your code. Don't let the code take controll over your options. Zope coding feels like "do it either way". ASP coding feels like "do the one and only way". Maybe "your" ASP developers, have seen external/python methods written by people who use the method for themselfs (not caring about reusing the method again), but has decided to let other developers use it. Maybe? Take care, be strong, Peter All, I have had a number of e-mails from developers using Microsoft ASP in recent days. The paraphrased consensus in the e-mails is that the external methods/python methods approach to mixing markup with code in Zope is more clunky than in ASP where you can intermingle the two at will. Has anyone written anything on this topic I could point them to? regards, Sean http://www.pyxie.org - an Open Source XML Processing library for Python ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
[Zope] Not like ASP complaint - any good answers
All, I have had a number of e-mails from developers using Microsoft ASP in recent days. The paraphrased consensus in the e-mails is that the external methods/python methods approach to mixing markup with code in Zope is more clunky than in ASP where you can intermingle the two at will. Has anyone written anything on this topic I could point them to? regards, Sean http://www.pyxie.org - an Open Source XML Processing library for Python ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
RE: [Zope] Not like ASP complaint - any good answers
Sean, This is mostly on purpose. It will probably only get more like this in time to come. There's a good article on this topic (although it deals with JSP as opposed to ASP) at http://www.servlets.com/soapbox/problems-jsp.html -Original Message- From: Sean McGrath [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2000 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Zope] Not like ASP complaint - any good answers All, I have had a number of e-mails from developers using Microsoft ASP in recent days. The paraphrased consensus in the e-mails is that the external methods/python methods approach to mixing markup with code in Zope is more clunky than in ASP where you can intermingle the two at will. Has anyone written anything on this topic I could point them to? regards, Sean http://www.pyxie.org - an Open Source XML Processing library for Python ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Not like ASP complaint - any good answers
Intermingling application logic with HTML code is a good idea if these conditions are met: 1) your website logic and its graphic design always change in sync; 2) you have more real programmers than HTML coders; 3) your programmers´ workload is so light that you don´t care about reusing code; Unfortunately, in the real world it seems these conditions never exist. Best regards, Luciano Ramalho Sean McGrath wrote: All, I have had a number of e-mails from developers using Microsoft ASP in recent days. The paraphrased consensus in the e-mails is that the external methods/python methods approach to mixing markup with code in Zope is more clunky than in ASP where you can intermingle the two at will. Has anyone written anything on this topic I could point them to? regards, Sean http://www.pyxie.org - an Open Source XML Processing library for Python ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ) ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
Re: [Zope] Not like ASP complaint - any good answers
+---[ Sean McGrath ]-- | All, | | I have had a number of e-mails from developers | using Microsoft ASP in recent days. The paraphrased consensus | in the e-mails is that the external | methods/python methods approach to mixing markup | with code in Zope is more clunky than in ASP where | you can intermingle the two at will. So don't use External or Python Methods. They are a small part of Zope, and are usually used to do some complex logic or calculation. It is not normal to embed markup inside of Python or External methods. I would suggest your developers have a lack of understanding of how Zope operates, and also have a fear of the unknown and are grasping for reasons not to use Zope. If the best they can come up with is External Methods are more clunky than ASP, and you don't need External Methods (not everyone does), then you have a winner. | Has anyone written anything on this topic I could | point them to? If you're really talking Python Products and not Python Methods, then your developers really have no idea. Abstracting business logic into an object which can 'render itself' in HTML if required, and can be customised without using python to render in different ways, is obviously a better idea than logic+markup in scattered files (and I don't just point the finger at ASP here). Quick and dirty, sure you can something a little more complex in ASP a little faster. If you have a large project, and you want it maintainable, then this is not going to work for you, and I'm speaking from experience here (30 + guys on one ASP project). -- Totally Holistic Enterprises Internet| P:+61 7 3870 0066 | Andrew Milton The Internet (Aust) Pty Ltd | F:+61 7 3870 4477 | ACN: 082 081 472 ABN: 83 082 081 472 | M:+61 416 022 411 | Carpe Daemon PO Box 837 Indooroopilly QLD 4068|[EMAIL PROTECTED]| ___ Zope maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://lists.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev )
