Re: [Zope-dev] Re: RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source code repository
Martin Aspeli wrote: ... and I'm one of those developers. I care, for the moment, about one thing: Plone. I want Plone to move to use more Zope 3 technology, sure, because it's clearly superior. But we're not going to re-write it from scratch, and neither, I suspect, will most large Z2 applications. That I don't know about. Plone probably should, for a number of reasons, but I guess it's quite a hard problem to tackle... So my path to Z3 is through Z2, by way of Five. Frankly, without that migration path, Z3 is nice and pretty and architecturally very cool and totally irrelevant to me. Indeed, but why does that mean people in Z3-land who feel the same way as you about Z2 and Plone should have to put up with looking after all of Z2? ;) cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source code repository
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Sounds crazy, I know. But I'm serious. Looking for your comments at: http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/ReuniteZope2AndZope3InTheSourceCodeRepository Very well thought out, very well written. +1 from me. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 202-558-7113 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFDhJiF+gerLs4ltQ4RAglCAJ9a+9g2jqXROPuh+fEs/sAYiGfJmgCfU+G0 Wk9G3lsZ37AIrOS0Iafw74M= =XYaJ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source code repository
What my point is here is that your attitude about Zope 2 is wrong: as a pure-play Zope 3 developer you *should* care about Zope 2. Some of us have been doing quite a bit of work of bringing Zope 3 to the Zope 2 world. I believe that at least partially as a result of this, Zope 3 is getting a lot more attention from Zope 2 developers. I think that this attention is extremely valuable to the Zope 3 project. There is an awful lot of experience, skills and knowledge in the Zope 2 world that is immensely valuable to Zope 3 developers. We *don't* have a full respresentation of these extremely valuable perspectives in the Zope 3 development community right now. If Zope 2 developers get the impression that core Zope 3 developers don't give a shit about Zope 2, they may not be so likely to actually come on board. That would be a disastrous development indeed. We really need an increased connection between the Zope 2 world and the Zope 3 world. ... and I'm one of those developers. I care, for the moment, about one thing: Plone. I want Plone to move to use more Zope 3 technology, sure, because it's clearly superior. But we're not going to re-write it from scratch, and neither, I suspect, will most large Z2 applications. So my path to Z3 is through Z2, by way of Five. Frankly, without that migration path, Z3 is nice and pretty and architecturally very cool and totally irrelevant to me. And judging from the size of the Plone community, if nothing else, there's quite a few people like me. Martin (about to buy Phil's book, honest) -- (muted) ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
[Zope-dev] Re: RFC: Reunite Zope 2 and Zope 3 in the source code repository
Martijn Faassen wrote: Stephan Richter wrote: On Wednesday 23 November 2005 10:16, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote: Sounds crazy, I know. But I'm serious. Looking for your comments at: http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/ReuniteZope2AndZope3InTheSourceCodeRepository I am -1. If I could I would veto this proposal. Here is why: To be totally honest, I really, really don't care about Zope 2! I'll debate with you this reason. I don't think that this changes your dislike of merging the repositories and this argument is on a side-track and not intended to convince you of this. What my point is here is that your attitude about Zope 2 is wrong: as a pure-play Zope 3 developer you *should* care about Zope 2. Some of us have been doing quite a bit of work of bringing Zope 3 to the Zope 2 world. I believe that at least partially as a result of this, Zope 3 is getting a lot more attention from Zope 2 developers. I think that this attention is extremely valuable to the Zope 3 project. There is an awful lot of experience, skills and knowledge in the Zope 2 world that is immensely valuable to Zope 3 developers. We *don't* have a full respresentation of these extremely valuable perspectives in the Zope 3 development community right now. If Zope 2 developers get the impression that core Zope 3 developers don't give a shit about Zope 2, they may not be so likely to actually come on board. That would be a disastrous development indeed. We really need an increased connection between the Zope 2 world and the Zope 3 world. I couldn't have said it better, Martijn. Stephan might not care about the Zope 2 codebase (frankly, I'm mostly with him on that, which is why I'm working to improve it), but let's not forget that Zope 3 is currently actively managed by only 10 or so people. Everytime we make a release there are heroic efforts involved, mostly by Stephan himself. How long are we supposed to continue like this? Like Martijn, I strongly believe reuniting efforts will eventually mean *more* resources for Zope 3, not less (this is also a point where I disagre with Gary). As Martin pointed out with his own example, the reunification will tremendously lower the bar for more Zope 3 contributors which, given the time and resources other projects have and are willing to spend on the framework (e.g. thanks to Goldegg), should not be ignored. To give you another, much better example: Florent recently brought Zope 3 events ot Zope 2 and made a great effort in doing so. In return, this work now made him think about improving the Zope 3 object event hiearchy, the post to the zope3-dev list was even sent today. What better example of an improvement of Zope 3 due to Zope 2 integration can there be? Philipp This message was sent using IMP, the Internet Messaging Program. ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
