Re: [Zope-dev] SVN: zope.dublincore/trunk/ Move test-dependencies to 'extras'.
Marius Gedminas wrote: So either let's make zope.app.testing not depend on the whole world, +1 or let's extract the core of zope.app.testing +10 and put it somewhere else (zope.testing?). -1 cheers, Chris -- Simplistix - Content Management, Zope Python Consulting - http://www.simplistix.co.uk ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] SVN: zope.dublincore/trunk/ Move test-dependencies to 'extras'.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Fred Drake wrote: On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Malthe Borch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't know there was a controversy, but I do remember that there was consensus that ``extras_require`` is not the most elegant solution. Oh, there is! If you can advise a different way to avoid pulling in ``zope.app.testing`` I'm happy to revert the change; otherwise I think we should live and let live with it since it at the very least does the job. There's no good way to avoid dependencies like zope.app.testing; because that's part of the test environment, the tests won't show whether there are problems when it's removed. If you want to fly what you test, test dependencies can't be eliminated. BTW, that phrase is disingeuous: as one who worked on testing one of the earliest fly-by-wire fighter jets[1] (long ago in a galaxy far far away), I can assure you that the plane did *not* have all its various test jigs attatched to it as it rolled down the runway. - Before assembly, components get tested in isolation using whatever jigs were appropriate, with testing done at each rollup of a new assembly. - After integration into the airframe, the set of tests possible were vastly reduced: a minimal set of tests could be done in a preflight check without external equipment, but any failure in such a test resulted in pulling the indicated part for diagnosis using dedicated equipment. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16_Falcon#Fly-by-wire Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIuWiZ+gerLs4ltQ4RAkzBAKCY7ldytq7k9TqaDWljm2gk39DhGQCgl+c9 R+dM/gOr/v/O4f8Ww/xV61o= =Yy63 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] SVN: zope.dublincore/trunk/ Move test-dependencies to 'extras'.
Fred Drake wrote: This is a controversial change; can we avoid making changes like this until a policy is agreed upon? The controversy surrounding this has been discussed on zope-dev several times; I don't want to rehash it *right now*, since we all have things we need to get done. I didn't know there was a controversy, but I do remember that there was consensus that ``extras_require`` is not the most elegant solution. If you can advise a different way to avoid pulling in ``zope.app.testing`` I'm happy to revert the change; otherwise I think we should live and let live with it since it at the very least does the job. Or just revert the change and let Zope have its many dependencies. \malthe ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] SVN: zope.dublincore/trunk/ Move test-dependencies to 'extras'.
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Malthe Borch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't know there was a controversy, but I do remember that there was consensus that ``extras_require`` is not the most elegant solution. Oh, there is! If you can advise a different way to avoid pulling in ``zope.app.testing`` I'm happy to revert the change; otherwise I think we should live and let live with it since it at the very least does the job. There's no good way to avoid dependencies like zope.app.testing; because that's part of the test environment, the tests won't show whether there are problems when it's removed. If you want to fly what you test, test dependencies can't be eliminated. I'd suggest reverting the change for now. -Fred -- Fred L. Drake, Jr. fdrake at gmail.com Chaos is the score upon which reality is written. --Henry Miller ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] SVN: zope.dublincore/trunk/ Move test-dependencies to 'extras'.
Fred Drake wrote: There's no good way to avoid dependencies like zope.app.testing; because that's part of the test environment, the tests won't show whether there are problems when it's removed. If you want to fly what you test, test dependencies can't be eliminated. I understand, but this particular dependency pulls in the world, all 76 packages. I'll revert the change; it seems we're about to have a fork the size of the emacs/xemacs conflict, because for projects like repoze.bfg, dependency hell is no longer acceptable. \malthe ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] SVN: zope.dublincore/trunk/ Move test-dependencies to 'extras'.
On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 11:59:24PM +0200, Malthe Borch wrote: Fred Drake wrote: There's no good way to avoid dependencies like zope.app.testing; because that's part of the test environment, the tests won't show whether there are problems when it's removed. If you want to fly what you test, test dependencies can't be eliminated. I understand, but this particular dependency pulls in the world, all 76 packages. I'll revert the change; it seems we're about to have a fork the size of the emacs/xemacs conflict, because for projects like repoze.bfg, dependency hell is no longer acceptable. So either let's make zope.app.testing not depend on the whole world, or let's extract the core of zope.app.testing and put it somewhere else (zope.testing?). Marius Gedminas -- Some performers on television appear to be horrible people, but when you finally get to know them in person, they turn out to be even worse. -- Avery signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
Re: [Zope-dev] SVN: zope.dublincore/trunk/ Move test-dependencies to 'extras'.
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Fred Drake wrote: On Fri, Aug 29, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Malthe Borch [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I didn't know there was a controversy, but I do remember that there was consensus that ``extras_require`` is not the most elegant solution. Oh, there is! If you can advise a different way to avoid pulling in ``zope.app.testing`` I'm happy to revert the change; otherwise I think we should live and let live with it since it at the very least does the job. There's no good way to avoid dependencies like zope.app.testing; because that's part of the test environment, the tests won't show whether there are problems when it's removed. If you want to fly what you test, test dependencies can't be eliminated. I don't want to have to run the tests for 'zope.dublincore' in *every* system which uses it: I want to test 'zope.dublincore' in isolation, and then use a well-tested, known good version of it in other applications, which may not need or want the 'zope.app.testing' dependency. If zc.buildout would grow support for either 'tests_require' or a special 'extras_require' key, you could still have what you want without forcing it on the rest of the world. Tres. - -- === Tres Seaver +1 540-429-0999 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Palladion Software Excellence by Designhttp://palladion.com -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFIuIjO+gerLs4ltQ4RAq7MAJ0QU/OZGj+paO1dqp/iIsQ832UyfwCfd4ch UmvWo2czCKJsVW5VlMz9pt8= =W9vk -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Zope-Dev maillist - Zope-Dev@zope.org http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )
