Re: [Zotonic-Dev] Using Elixir to Develop

[Allen Wyma]

I'm more than happy to help convert some pieces. I left some messages on 
gitter. I just couldn't get zotonic to run by itself. It would be great if 
there was a way I could just add them as plugs, like David was saying.

On Tuesday, October 10, 2017 at 8:21:05 PM UTC+8, da...@ddeboer.nl wrote:
>
> I have converted larger Erlang codebases to Elixir incrementally
>
>
> Jake, can you explain the rationale behind this? Why did you want to run 
> your apps in Elixir instead of Erlang?
>  
>
>> The most interesting thing is probably an example combining Zotonic with 
>> Phoenix. 
>
>
> This is something I’ve been thinking about for a while now. Going one step 
> further: what about porting Zotonic to Elixir? There are a many reasons why 
> Zotonic and Phoenix (= Photonic ;) are a great match:
>
> 1. As of yet, there’s no fully-fledged CMS available for Phoenix/Elixir. 
> Having *a stable CMS for Phoenix* will enable developers to be more 
> productive in Elixir and attract more of them to start doing Elixir in the 
> first place. There’s definitely a demand for a Phoenix CMS: as Allen and 
> others write in this thread and again others have told me.
>
> 2. This is also a great chance for Zotonic. As most web developers on the 
> Beam VM are doing Elixir, it will be much easier for them to submit 
> improvements to an Elixir CMS than an Erlang one. So by porting Zotonic to 
> Elixir we will hopefully find *more contributors*.
>
> 3. The number of Zotonic contributors is rather small for such a large 
> product. One way to solve this problem is by *reducing the scope of 
> Zotonic*. Currently it has custom logic for HTTP (Cowmachine), templates 
> (template compiler), routes (dispatch compiler) and so on. All these belong 
> to *web applications in general, not a CMS specifically*. Let’s use 
> Phoenix to take care of these. Phoenix has a (much) larger community, so it 
> can do these fundamentals better and more efficiently than we can. Worst 
> case, we would have to build something on top of what Phoenix ships with 
> out of the box, such as adding adding dynamic routing 
> . Let’s stick 
> to *what makes Zotonic unique*: its flexible datamodel, performant 
> depcache, (possibly) ErlyDTL template language. 
> (As a side-note, let’s not forget Zotonic is much older than Phoenix, and 
> Zotonic has been doing things such as real-time client/server communication 
> before Phoenix existed, let alone added Channels.)
>
> 4. Phoenix is well-designed and properly *decoupled* (Plug for HTTP, Ecto 
> for databases and Contexts for domain logic). The same cannot not always be 
> said of Zotonic. So switching over to Phoenix will result in smaller 
> Zotonic components written in higher-quality code.
>
> 5. Most web development on the Beam VM is happening in Elixir: if you need 
> authentication, JSON-LD parsing etc., there are much more likely to be 
> up-to-date, well-maintained and documented Elixir *packages available* on 
> Hex.pm than a single Erlang one. It therefore makes sense to integrate with 
> the Elixir ecosystem.
>
> Cheers,
>
> David
>
>
> Op dinsdag 3 oktober 2017 04:23:11 UTC+2 schreef Jake Morrison:
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 02, 2017 at 10:39:04AM +, Marc Worrell wrote: 
>> > 
>> > > On 2 Oct 2017, at 02:19, Jake Morrison  wrote: 
>> > > 
>> > > Marc, 
>> > > 
>> > > On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 09:40:07AM +, Marc Worrell wrote: 
>> > >> Can mix build rebar3 based apps? 
>> > > 
>> > > Mix is more or less a replacement for rebar3, so they are mutually 
>> > > exclusive, though largely compatible. 
>> > > 
>> > >> If so then we can just provide a mix based project. 
>> > > 
>> > > For Elixir users, the easiest thing is if Zotonic can be used 
>> > > as a library which can be pulled in by mix/rebar from https://hex.pm/, 
>>
>> > > i.e. it's a well behaved OTP application. It might make sense 
>> > > to have some mix tasks which e.g. create template modules. 
>> > 
>> > The master is being split in OTP apps, with the specific goal of 
>> > being reusable. 
>> > 
>> > Actually, there is not much left in the ‘zotonic.app’, almost 
>> everything 
>> > is moved to the other (OTP) apps. 
>> > 
>> > So I guess having a Mix (/Elixir) project that people can clone could 
>> > be a good starting point for Elixir devs. 
>>
>> The most interesting thing is probably an example combining Zotonic with 
>> Phoenix. 
>>
>> > >> I am also thinking of using the introspection (we are using that for 
>> > >> notify observers) to discover if a module, filter, action or other 
>> > >> type of Zotonic callback module is an Elixir module. 
>> > >> And if so we could generate or use some glue code to call directly 
>> > >> into the Elixir modules from Zotonic. 
>> > > 
>> > > Generally speaking, Elixir code is functionally the same as Erlang 
>> > > code, the module atoms just start with 'Elixir.', so that may not be 
>> > > necessary. 
>> > 
>> > So if an 

Re: [Zotonic-Dev] Using Elixir to Develop

[Allen Wyma]

Ganz geil! How to connect?
On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 4:13 PM Marc Worrell <mworr...@me.com> wrote:

> On 29 Sep 2017, at 10:11, Allen Wyma <allen.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I’m more than willing to help out in exchange for some Dutch help?
> Language 4 language exchange? :)
>
>
> LOL,  quite some people in the core team are quite proficient in Dutch.
> So that won’t be problematic :)
>
> - M
>
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Re: [Zotonic-Dev] Using Elixir to Develop

[Allen Wyma]

I’m more than willing to help out in exchange for some Dutch help? Language
4 language exchange? :)
On Fri, Sep 29, 2017 at 4:10 PM Kai Janson <kot...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Some of the things in the hrl file could be replaced by Elixir macros or
> functions?
>
> Sent from my non-google-device
>
> On Sep 29, 2017, at 02:51, Marc Worrell <mworr...@me.com> wrote:
>
> Hi Allen,
>
> Two weeks ago David de Boer and I had a look at how Elixir and
> Erlang could be mixed.
>
> We concluded that it all should be possible to do with the master.
> But also that we didn’t know enough of Elixir to make it frictionless.
> So we need some help with this.
>
> The master is split in applications, and those will all be pushed to Hex.
> That is a good start for any Elixir setup, I guess.
>
> The main zotonic.hrl is mainly included because we like to poke around in
> #context{} (which we shouldn’t) and to use the ?DEBUG/1 macro.
>
> There are some other macros in there, but they are not essential.
> So it is not really needed for building modules etc.
>
> We welcome help to make Zotonic work with Elixir!
>
> Arjan could probably help as well - though he is very busy right now.
>
> Cheers, Marc
>
>
> On 29 Sep 2017, at 03:17, Allen Wyma <allen.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> Does anyone have a guide with how to use elixir with Zotonic? We're a ruby
> house that's looking to switch to elixir, but sometimes we get projects
> that seem to work better for a CMS. When I saw this project, I was quite
> amazed and we'd like to start to experiment a bit with it.
>
> Is it possible to have a guide of how to use elixir with Zotonic? I've
> tried looking a bit at the code for erlang, and it includes references to
> hrl (erlang macro/header files) which are not supported in elixir. This is
> probably my biggest question of how to translate over the code.
>
> Thanks
>
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[Zotonic-Dev] Using Elixir to Develop

[Allen Wyma]

Hi,

Does anyone have a guide with how to use elixir with Zotonic? We're a ruby 
house that's looking to switch to elixir, but sometimes we get projects 
that seem to work better for a CMS. When I saw this project, I was quite 
amazed and we'd like to start to experiment a bit with it.

Is it possible to have a guide of how to use elixir with Zotonic? I've 
tried looking a bit at the code for erlang, and it includes references to 
hrl (erlang macro/header files) which are not supported in elixir. This is 
probably my biggest question of how to translate over the code.

Thanks

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