The bottom line is there are three categories of AreaList Pro users: 1. Those who use it for basic needs and only know the old v6-v8 features, that are now mostly available in listboxes as you mentioned. 2. Publishers running large applications with a wide installed base, including AreaList Pro areas all over the place. 3. Power users who follow closely all new features and ask for more.
Of course there are intersections between these 3 sets. Now regarding the evolution: - Category 1 sometimes want to save a few hundred and spend time replacing their code, giving up advanced features and yes, benefiting from 4D's API in return. Others don't need 4D's recent programming tools and just want their code to work with all recent OS and 4D versions. It is true, however, that we have returning customers who went through the listbox option but miss the rest (see below). And quite surprisingly a few "new" developers that we never heard of before. - Category 2 are our core market and don't mind paying annual "OEM" licenses for a product that is well maintained and fully compatible with their "old" code. They can add advanced features from time to time. They often use other professional tools such as SuperReport Pro or CalendarSet, which interact nicely with AreaList Pro. A specific Unlimited license is available for this need, including all professional tools. The e-Node Partner license includes them as well on a smaller deployment basis. Their subscribers are often "small" publishers who follow the same logic. - Category 3 give us a lot of work, but we like them too :-) They help us make AreaList Pro (and other professional tools) a very advanced programming environment with dozens of features that you will find nowhere in 4D's native API. Check out https://alp-docs.e-node.net/doku.php?id=arealist_pro_v10_new_features just for v10 stuff. And yes, AreaList Pro version 11 supports entity selections and collections. On the other hand, we don't have many requests regarding how developers want them to be used in AreaList Pro, based on our thread at https://forums.e-node.net/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=879 even though read by 113 developers as of today, so it doesn't look like a major need (for AreaList Pro users) but we have our own ideas… And again, no listbox will offer many of these AreaList Pro v11 features as we are designing them. Best regards, -- Phil > On 15 Jun 2020, at 20:55, Chris Belanger via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> > wrote: > > I agree with your logic, John. A well-spoken and thoughtful reply. > > I also used ALP for many years; back in the ‘dinosaur’ days before list boxes > were not even thought of. Seemed for many years 4D was content to leave that > aspect of the UI to ALP, which it filled most admirably. I built a > significant amount of my code library on ALP. It served a vital role in my 4D > apps for many years. > > However, after 4Dv14 arrived, I re-engineered my DBs to eliminate ALP. ALP > licensing had been changed so it was ‘attached’ to a 4D license a few years > before, and it became expensive to me. It took a few days because it was > quite integrated into my ‘libraries’ but I managed to replace it all > satisfactorily, including my customization code that allowed reconfiguration > of an ALP during runtime (and saving the config, etc.). > > Now I have a whole new ORDA/entity selection codebase (greatly simplified, I > might add) founded upon the use listBoxes. I can adjust the columns & all the > appearance options of the listBox area using my own GUI, at run-time. Even > the method they run. > > Considering that Entity selections have been available for so many months > now, I am surprised to learn that they are not supported in ALP yet. But I > imagine it is a huge undertaking to support it, especially as a plug-in. > > I suppose another consideration in the debate may be if a developer is going > to use "4D for iOS". I haven’t ever checked that out myself — I plan to but > need to get some projects finished up first. I don’t know if it supports > listBoxes. But either way I would imagine that ALP would not be available for > such projects (as they become Xcode). > > I hope all the best for the publishers of ALP, but I can’t see any reason for > me to jump back on the wagon. > > — Chris ********************************************************************** 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG) New Forum: https://discuss.4D.com Archive: http://lists.4d.com/archives.html Options: https://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech Unsub: mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com **********************************************************************
