Re: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-14 Thread Bruno LEGAY via 4D_Tech 
Hi,

We have been using wikis for more than 10 years and we love them. I did write 
post on the nug about it.

We use it internally for everything, information on clients, projects, 
application version history, meeting reports/minutes, standard procedures, 
coding practice, naming convention rules, etc...
Basically all the information which we want to share...
And wikis are searchable... 

We managed to convince client to use them for online documentation linked to 
their own knowledge base. And this works great.
We configured each screen of our application to a corresponding url to the 
wiki. Clicking on the help button opens the corresponding wiki page in a window 
with a web area.

We are using an old wiki (we chose it in 2005) : JSPWiki (open source, free as 
in beer). It is now under the Apache foundation but is does not seem that 
active/popular.
In particular there is no graphical interface do editing pages...
But we learnt the basic syntax and it feels natural...
Our wiki runs on Tomcat on a linux box
The wiki syntax is not standard so migrating data from one wiki product to 
another is a bit daunting.

I know of Confluence and Jira, but, to be honest, I did not try them. I know 
that Atlassian products are very good.

We started to use "redmine" (open source, free as in beer) for bug tracking 
(migrating from another bug tracking product Track+ which was a commercial 
product). It is just a beginning with this tool but I like it. 
Again, migrating from one tool to another is daunting. We will slowly migrate 
and keep the old tool for historic data.

Great to hear other people are using wikis and love them :-)

PS : also, take a look at Trello, it is a great online tool (think of agile, 
posit notes, online collaborative tool)...
Trello has been bough by Atlassian beginning of 2017 for $425M.
Trello is free (as in beer, for the time being).

HTH
Bruno


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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-13 Thread Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
"FogBugz is probably the one I like the most. "

I've been using FB for about 10 years but for the bug tracking features not
the wiki features. It's an invaluable means of tracking issues, tracking
progress, marking changes in code, version management, and invoicing.

The price is good up to the 5 user level (about $200 per year) and I've
found that to be more than enough for most projects.
--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902 <(949)%20336-2902>

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 2:31 PM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Haven't found one that I love yet. FogBugz is probably the one I like the
> most. We've been using ZenDesk but it really sucks (Jira is awesome in
> comparison). Jira really isn't bad... again, I was just being snarky. I'm
> fond of most all of the Atlassian tools (especially Confluence).
>
> We're in the process of writing our own Jira replacement.
>
> --
> Jeffrey Kain
> jeffrey.k...@gmail.com
>
>
>
>
> > On Jul 13, 2017, at 4:22 PM, Lee Hinde via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > What do you like?
> >
> > On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <
> > 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Jira sucks.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Jeffrey Kain
> >> jeffrey.k...@gmail.com
> >>
> >>> On Jul 13, 2017, at 5:26 AM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <
> >> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> ...Wow, thanks for all of the information about the features of
> >> Confluence
> >>> and Jira. I'm new to them, so pretty much everything you mentioned is
> new
> >>> to me.
> >>
> >> **
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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-13 Thread Lee Hinde via 4D_Tech 
Of course you are.

I don’t mind Jira too much, but it’s horrible for customers. And I wasn’t happy 
making a career out of learning how to customize the customer view.



> On Jul 13, 2017, at 2:31 PM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> We're in the process of writing our own Jira replacement.

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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-13 Thread Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech 
Haven't found one that I love yet. FogBugz is probably the one I like the most. 
We've been using ZenDesk but it really sucks (Jira is awesome in comparison). 
Jira really isn't bad... again, I was just being snarky. I'm fond of most all 
of the Atlassian tools (especially Confluence).

We're in the process of writing our own Jira replacement.

--
Jeffrey Kain
jeffrey.k...@gmail.com




> On Jul 13, 2017, at 4:22 PM, Lee Hinde via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> What do you like?
> 
> On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> Jira sucks.
>> 
>> --
>> Jeffrey Kain
>> jeffrey.k...@gmail.com
>> 
>>> On Jul 13, 2017, at 5:26 AM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <
>> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> ...Wow, thanks for all of the information about the features of
>> Confluence
>>> and Jira. I'm new to them, so pretty much everything you mentioned is new
>>> to me.
>> 
>> **
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>> 
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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-13 Thread Keith Goebel via 4D_Tech 
We have been using Confluence and JIRA for several years now, and love them.
With one exception:
We setup our entire Online Help system in Confluence; a button click in 4D 
takes you to the relevant Confluence page.
Worked really well until recently when they decided to prevent url link logins.
This means our Help system no longer works easily, which is a real bummer.
We’re talking to them but they are a large organisation and we feel like an ant 
versus Microsoft - they don’t seem to care.
No doubt we’ll figure something out…
Cheers, Keith
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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-13 Thread Lee Hinde via 4D_Tech 
What do you like?

On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 6:22 AM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Jira sucks.
>
> --
> Jeffrey Kain
> jeffrey.k...@gmail.com
>
> > On Jul 13, 2017, at 5:26 AM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > ...Wow, thanks for all of the information about the features of
> Confluence
> > and Jira. I'm new to them, so pretty much everything you mentioned is new
> > to me.
>
> **
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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-13 Thread Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech 
That was meant as a joke. Emacs sucks. No vi sucks. Windoze sucks.

That said, I think Jira is overly complex, but that's just my opinion. :)


Jeff

--
Jeffrey Kain
jeffrey.k...@gmail.com




> On Jul 13, 2017, at 11:12 AM, Tilman Haerdle via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> That being said, I fully trust Win32API even if you didn't use Jira to manage 
> its development. :-)

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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-13 Thread Tilman Haerdle via 4D_Tech 
Jeffrey,

you're free to have your opinion. Let's put it that way: in our use case, Jira 
is the perfect tool for the job and it significantly improved our productivity 
and the quality of our deliverables.

YMMV and so I guess with those tools it's just like with cameras: There are 
Canon enthusiasts, there are Nikon enthusiasts, there are Fuji enthusiasts, 
whatever. The human being behind the lens makes the picture.

That being said, I fully trust Win32API even if you didn't use Jira to manage 
its development. :-)

Tilman
> Am 13.07.2017 um 15:22 schrieb Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>:
> 
> Jira sucks.
> 
> --
> Jeffrey Kain
> jeffrey.k...@gmail.com
> 
>> On Jul 13, 2017, at 5:26 AM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> ...Wow, thanks for all of the information about the features of Confluence
>> and Jira. I'm new to them, so pretty much everything you mentioned is new
>> to me.
> 
> **
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RE: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-13 Thread Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 4D_Tech 
> From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Jeffrey Kain 
> via
> 
> Jira sucks.

That's a statement, it would be interesting to know why do you think so?
Or are you convinced the TAOW (https://taow.4d.com/Home/home.en.html) by 4D is 
better? (To throw in a complete different system) :-)

Regards
Lutz


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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-13 Thread Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech 
Jira sucks.

--
Jeffrey Kain
jeffrey.k...@gmail.com

> On Jul 13, 2017, at 5:26 AM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> ...Wow, thanks for all of the information about the features of Confluence
> and Jira. I'm new to them, so pretty much everything you mentioned is new
> to me.

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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-13 Thread David Adams via 4D_Tech 
On Thu, Jul 13, 2017 at 6:27 PM, Tilman Haerdle via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

>
> we at extragroup use Confluence for several years now and apart from
> intermittent glitches we are very happy with it.


...Wow, thanks for all of the information about the features of Confluence
and Jira. I'm new to them, so pretty much everything you mentioned is new
to me.

> One of the big pluses for all the people who still need to distribute
PDF-based documents is that you can export
> complete spaces (a confluence wiki can consist of several distinct sub
wikis called spaces) as one big PDF
> document with pictures and all.

Best. Feature. Ever. I cannot thank you enough for mentioning this. You
just made my year! It took me a couple of minutes with Google to figure out
where the export to PDF option is for a space and that was it. The PDF
Confluence produced is *excellent*. A full table of contents with clickable
links. Wow. Ever since the death of FrameMaker on OS X I've suffered...this
is a huge relief for me.

Thank also for all of the other tips and comments.
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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-13 Thread Tilman Haerdle via 4D_Tech 
David,

we at extragroup use Confluence for several years now and apart from 
intermittent glitches we are very happy with it. It's our go to product for 
internal and external documentation. We also use it to prepare meetings, do 
brainstorming in a team and many other things.

We love the excellent full text search, the ability to control access rights by 
user and its ease of use. It's great you can fav pages, comment, or watch 
changes.

One of the big pluses for all the people who still need to distribute PDF-based 
documents is that you can export complete spaces (a confluence wiki can consist 
of several distinct sub wikis called spaces) as one big PDF dcoument with 
pictures and all.

The manual of our 4D-based product profacto is published in Confluence: 
http://profacto.extragroup.de:8090/display/handbuch/Module
The hierarchical sidebar makes it really easy to navigate content the user is 
roughly familiar with.

In addition, we use JIRA. The Kanban view allows us to track our issues from 
creation to release. Since we use JIRA consequently and track every improvement 
and the rare :-) bug in profacto, product quality has dramatically improved.

Tilman


extragroup GmbH
Pottkamp 19
48149 Münster
Germany

Mobil: +49 178 721 5210 (Skype: TilmanHaerdle)
Fax: +49 251 39089-10
WWW: http://www.extragroup.de
Email: tilman.haer...@extragroup.de

Geschäftsführer: Lars Busch
Registergericht: Amtsgericht Münster / HRB: 5624 Steuer Nr.: 337/5903/0421 - 
UstID: DE 204607841

Vectorworks interiorcad - profacto


Am 13.07.2017 um 03:55 schrieb David Adams via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>:

I've tried a few different wiki packages down the years, sometimes setting
them up from scratch and sometimes using one someone else configured. At
the moment I'm using Atlassian's Confluence as set up by someone else.

It's great.

As I'm working along, figuring things out I can put down some notes to
refer back to. If I have to figure out some kind of algorithm that's new to
me (or long forgotten), I can write it up for others in a team setting.
(I've been doing a bunch of interval math lately which I thought I hated. I
don't hate it, I just didn't know where to look for the right information.)

I understand that a lot of people don't like writing and that it's a chore.
As I just heard it put from someone (in voice mail)

"Because I hate writing. Period."

Confluence (or similar) isn't the product for people in this camp ;-) But
if you do find it helpful to write things down in a place that you can find
them latter, I'm really pleased with Confluence.

A couple of notes:
* There are only a handful of styles and formatting options. A bit
frustrating for someone like me who misses character-level
stylesheets...but then you end up wasting very little time on formatting.
(At times, I make myself write in BBEdit so that I don't get caught up in
pointless tweaking too early.) After using Confluence's options for a few
days I stopped and noticed, 'Hey! Everything looks great!" They've saved me
from wasting time and from doing hideous things ;-)

* Overall, I've probably spent 30-45 minutes figuring out various features
and where options are. The hardest was figuring out where attachments are
organized. (There's a little paperclip symbol that's only visible when
you're not editing. A bit weird, but not a big deal.)

If anyone has used Confluence and/or anything else and wants to post some
comparisons (now or six months from now, I'll still be interested), please
do.
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Re: Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-13 Thread Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech 
I second that confluence and Jira are brilliant. They do a 10 user version
for 10 USD trouble is its additive and 25 users is expensive. Download a
postgres appliance from turnkey linux. Set up a virtual machine in hyper v.
Install.



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Wiki software: Confluence

2017-07-12 Thread David Adams via 4D_Tech 
I've tried a few different wiki packages down the years, sometimes setting
them up from scratch and sometimes using one someone else configured. At
the moment I'm using Atlassian's Confluence as set up by someone else.

It's great.

As I'm working along, figuring things out I can put down some notes to
refer back to. If I have to figure out some kind of algorithm that's new to
me (or long forgotten), I can write it up for others in a team setting.
(I've been doing a bunch of interval math lately which I thought I hated. I
don't hate it, I just didn't know where to look for the right information.)

I understand that a lot of people don't like writing and that it's a chore.
As I just heard it put from someone (in voice mail)

"Because I hate writing. Period."

Confluence (or similar) isn't the product for people in this camp ;-) But
if you do find it helpful to write things down in a place that you can find
them latter, I'm really pleased with Confluence.

A couple of notes:
* There are only a handful of styles and formatting options. A bit
frustrating for someone like me who misses character-level
stylesheets...but then you end up wasting very little time on formatting.
(At times, I make myself write in BBEdit so that I don't get caught up in
pointless tweaking too early.) After using Confluence's options for a few
days I stopped and noticed, 'Hey! Everything looks great!" They've saved me
from wasting time and from doing hideous things ;-)

* Overall, I've probably spent 30-45 minutes figuring out various features
and where options are. The hardest was figuring out where attachments are
organized. (There's a little paperclip symbol that's only visible when
you're not editing. A bit weird, but not a big deal.)

If anyone has used Confluence and/or anything else and wants to post some
comparisons (now or six months from now, I'll still be interested), please
do.
**
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