Quoting Charles Forsyth :
On 22 October 2014 15:34, Kurt H Maier wrote:
Quoting Mats Olsson :
cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
this exact error message is in the fortunes file.
oh well, that explains that: obviously the rio start-up on t
Quoting Mats Olsson :
cpu: can't dial: plan9.lanl.gov: The operation completed successfully.
this exact error message is in the fortunes file.
khm
Quoting Winston Kodogo :
Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed with
Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It has an
achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
asleep for the past decade."
patches welcome
Quoting Steve Simon :
I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the
raspberry pi per-se.
4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM.
Personally I save needed mail messages in named archives and try to
keep the number
of messages in my inbo
Quoting Carsten Kunze :
Hello,
is there no neqn on Plan9?
Carsten
neqn just runs eqn with -Tascii. Plan 9 uses UTF-8
and eqn has -Tutf as the default.
khm
Quoting Skip Tavakkolian :
you misrepresent. rsc addressed the non-web-centric issue:
I don't think it is super important to try to make rc defend against
malicious environments, any more than
it is to make it somehow defend against malicious $paths. If those are
security-relevant, you've a
Quoting Russ Cox :
The right fix is to eliminate all possible interaction between (1) and (2).
The first public fix focused instead on making (1) more robust, and guess
what, it wasn't good enough and now there is a *second* CVE about this
problem, and a *second* attempt at making (1) more robus
Quoting erik quanstrom :
correct. plan 9 does not bother with leap seconds.
seconds(1) "handles" leap seconds in that it will not crash
when it encounters them -- it accepts that sometimes there
are 61 seconds in a minute.
khm
Quoting Steve Simon :
plan9 has date(1) but there is no tm2sec(1), unless it
is called somthing I didn't expect.
seconds(1)
khm
Quoting françai s :
What are the programming languages that were used to develop the Plan9?
Probably the Riga Technical University and University of Latvia
continue teaching coding in binary code, ie, machine language.
I say this because about three years ago the Riga Technical University
an
Quoting dante :
Usable, not bureaucratic.
Lots of people already use plan 9, therefore it is already
useable.
And you don't need to invest work.
This seems like a load of garbage, since you're already demanding
that other people do work to support your preferences.
This all changed
Quoting erik quanstrom :
What is the motivation of choosing a distributed OS without wanting to
explain how distributed operating systems work?
the standard definition of distributed os rather excludes plan 9.
- erik
Please document this standard, including which standards body ratified it.
Quoting Yoann Padioleau :
I’m trying to make a tutorial explaining the code of a not too large kernel
(9), but there are too many things to explain so I have to cut things.
So having a simple fs which does not require to explain
9p, the rpc, the mount device, etc would be great.
I know that expl
Quoting erik quanstrom :
oh, editors have a 40 year head start. rpi can't possibly have reached
that level of tedium yet, can they have?
I think Eternal-September saturation levels may have effected a bit of
a steeper curve on the who-cares charts
khm
Quoting Yoann Padioleau :
Hi cinap,
Would it be possible to change a bit the 9front mercurial repository so that
it can work on MacOS filesystem.
I get some:
abort: case-folding collision between
sys/lib/troff/font/devutf/charlib/lH and
sys/lib/troff/font/devutf/charlib/LH
when hg pull;
Quoting Latchesar Ionkov :
Who exactly do you think are the "we" that you are talking about?
All the unpopular, irrelevant people who regularly force poor Ron
to loudly, manually pipe this list into /dev/null instead of just
unsubscribing.
khm
Quoting ron minnich :
I'm beginning to remember why I redirected this list to /dev/null. I
think I'm going to resume.
thanks for letting us know
Enjoy your ever-shrinking place in the world, folks; it's clear that
you enjoy it. It's also clear that nobody else cares any more.
I'm sorry tha
Quoting ron minnich :
has anyone looked at camlistore as a starting point? Written in Go,
which means it works on Plan 9.
That means it works on *one architecture* of Plan 9.
khm
Quoting lu...@proxima.alt.za:
Obvious, good grounds for a conspiracy theory. Such code simply does
not exist, no matter how much you harp on it. Next thing, you'll
insist I need to prove that it does not exist, putting you squarely in
the Creationists camp.
I don't need anyone to prove anyth
Quoting Skip Tavakkolian :
i like git. as it is a kind of archival file system, one should be able to
build a plan9 file system interface for it.
This should be possible for any reasonably sane scm; c.f. cinap's hgfs.
But all the DVCS in the world doesn't let us see code that is never uploa
Quoting lu...@proxima.alt.za:
PS: I have resurrected an old Nokia (5110, but I'm not sure) phone,
but it's been borrowed and I have my doubts that I will be seeing it
again any time soon. Maybe this forum can help me decide what GSM
equipment is safe from interference by the networks and their
Quoting ron minnich :
Ah well, back to 'm' for this thread, and I now accept that this
community is unwilling to solve this simple problem, as so many others
have. Bummer.
ron
Deliberate misdirection then; got it.
I'm sorry you're sad, but comparing plan freaking 9 to an operating system
ba
Quoting ron minnich :
I have a different perspective. There are millions of chromebooks out
there updating all the time, from the firmware to the kernel to the
root file system to everything. It all works.
Millions of carefully-crafted machines updating all the time, from the
firmware
to th
Quoting andrey mirtchovski :
golang-dev has more clout than 9fans nowadays, at least as it
pertains to plan9.
That's why I'm asking. We now have three go-related new syscalls, while
lots of actual hardware support gets flushed down the toilet for
unspecified reasons. I'm not complaining;
Quoting ron minnich :
And, again, I was not inclined to act on any of this until the
discussion on the golang-dev list, which boiled down to:
"if you can do it with a single system call, you should" with a
response of "we put in a patch, was not accepted yet.". I just renewed
the request to reex
Quoting Jeremy Jackins :
On Thu, May 8, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
thing, javascript is not a thing that happens on this operating system.
Here is a screenshot of a javascript interpreter running on plan 9.
https://github.com/robertkrimen/
Are you being deliberately
Quoting erik quanstrom :
for what it's worth, i review all the changes made to plan 9 and 9front
and apply what makes sense.
Some subset of the 9front people also do this with various publicly-
available resources, like 9changes and 9atom. I'm not sure of the
value of a javascript thing that
Quoting Charles Forsyth :
On 8 May 2014 13:46, wrote:
not enough Internet credits to sustain efforts ...
Or a working e-mail supplier (they've blocked Google):
This is what happens when people vote for Julius Malema.
khm
Quoting Charles Forsyth :
they weren't "shot down", but saying use MY distribution over here,
or use MY distribution over here,
haha you said exactly the same thing
Quoting Charles Forsyth :
I see that I had better explain. I am yan cui's mentor for GSoC on a
particular project that is starting with some
code that I wrote, and it will greatly assist me initially if he and I are
using the same basic source code for
the system and the kernel. Sources provides
Quoting Charles Forsyth :
On 7 May 2014 01:40, erik quanstrom wrote:
your options are 9atom or 9front.
well no, no they aren't.
exactly what value is that comment supposed to add to anyone's day
Quoting yan cui :
My machine is x86_64 and I run Plan9 inside KVM.
The architecture of the hypervisor has little bearing on the architecture
of the KVM guest environment. Check your kvm configuration (or the options
passed to the qemu process) to see which cpu has been specified for the gues
Quoting erik quanstrom :
pae isn't newfangled. it was supported, iirc, by the ppro.
And every subsequent x86 chip except Banias, for the
exclusion of which I will never forgive Intel.
khm
Quoting Peter Hull :
Sorry for this extremely basic question but I'm a bit confused about
the various plan9 distributions.
As I understand it, 9front is a fork of the original plan 9 from Bell
Labs and 9atom consists of enhancements to plan9.
All three seem to be under development, but: Are chan
Quoting erik quanstrom :
obviously the interconnect is going to be the issue. which gives
me a very interesting idea on interconnects.
The shitty interconnects are the exact reason I have never been interested
in the "pile of awful crap" school of supercomputer design. The only one
I'
Quoting Peter Hull :
It would be interesting to see Plan 9 running on the 40-node Raspberry
Pi 'supercomputer'!
http://likemagicappears.com/projects/raspberry-pi-cluster/
Pete
I'd say that's a groundbreaking new field all its own. Perhaps "LPC"
or "subparcomputing"
khm
Quoting ron minnich :
Just thought I'd toss out a correction, because lots of statements are
being made by people who don't know much about the whys and wherefores
of the recent UCB announcement of a GPL'ed release or how we got here.
I'm not sure what you set out to clarify here.
Will the La
Quoting erik quanstrom :
it looks like the issues are just a place for spam:
http://code.swtch.com/plan9port/issues?status=new&status=open
does anyone have any suggestions on reducing or eliminating the spam?
In the past, bitbucket has been responsive to someone with admin
control of the
Quoting Aram Hăvărneanu :
and the 9front guys have everything in a hg repo
on Google Code
9front exists precisely because the 9front authors considered Plan 9
closed. Using it as an example of openness is the ultimate in
hypocrisy.
Nobody considers plan 9 closed. 9front exists because cina
Quoting Lyndon Nerenberg :
On Jan 5, 2014, at 8:03 PM, Steven Stallion wrote:
There are a few of us that still hold out hope for the Labs
distribution.
But realistically, for how much longer? The past year has shown the
love is gone. I haven't been able to run a labs distribution on
p
Quoting Rudolf Sykora :
PS.: It's a pity there isn't such a thing like plan9 that would
just work :)
Plan 9 works fine. It's gnu crap that is difficult.
9front experimented with providing binary packages for various things
and it was more trouble than it was worth
khm
Quoting Blake McBride :
There is value in a community.
Irrelevant; the question at hand is whether your specific participation
in a community enhances its value.
On the other hand, you can live in a cave and do whatever you like
if you wish.
*This* is a false dichotomy. I choose *not* to
Quoting erik quanstrom :
On Mon Dec 23 17:10:13 EST 2013, s...@9front.org wrote:
isn't this a false dichotomy? rudeness doesn't preserve value.
Neither does gladhanding.
it's easy to point out past mistakes. do you think these were obvious
at the time they were made?
Whether they were
Quoting Blake McBride :
Documentation is always clear to people who already know the material but
use the documentation as a reminder. It is difficult for a newbie to
differentiate out-of-date material, branch specific material, and valid
documentation. I am providing feedback from a newbie's
Quoting Blake McBride :
Or perhaps:
echo newuser USER-NAME >>/srv/cwfs.cmd
replace USER-NAME with the new user's name. If most commands are in
lowercase, it might make sense to use uppercase names as things that need
to be specified.
Or perhaps we use the documentation as a way to weed out
Quoting Blake McBride :
I use ASCII.
Not on 9front, you don't.
khm
Quoting Blake McBride :
1.0.0: vid 03.00.00 1002/4c57 11 0:e808 134217728 1:c001 256
2:fcff 65536
Thanks!
That's a video card, Blake.
khm
Quoting erik quanstrom :
> I would be much more interested in producing and providing patches if I
> wasn't in such fear of upsetting the Plan-9 philosophy. (That is if
> improvements were sufficient.)
Your total lack of effort in understanding Plan 9 philosophy deftly
removes any interest I m
Quoting Blake McBride :
Agreed. You also don't owe your grocer, your tailor, or your gas station
attendant anything either. There is personal gain we all get by shared
contribution.
I've selected grocers, tailors, and gas station attendants based on
technical merit. How am I to value your i
Quoting Blake McBride :
There is a difference between valid arguments and club allegiance.
You have not demonstrated a necessity for anyone subscribed to this
list to give a particular shit about which of the two are at play here.
We don't owe you anything, including a defense of plan 9.
Pat
Quoting Blake McBride :
What I am beginning to understand from comments like this is that there is
a "club Plan-9". Everything ever done by the originators of "club Plan-9"
is correct, period. No mater what exceptions, special cases, or good new
ideas occur, they are wrong and we will find som
Quoting Blake McBride :
What I am beginning to understand from comments like this is that there is
a "club Plan-9". Everything ever done by the originators of "club Plan-9"
is correct, period. No mater what exceptions, special cases, or good new
ideas occur, they are wrong and we will find som
Quoting Blake McBride :
I'd be a better judge if I understood the purposeful, thought out reason
behind the problems I am experiencing - assuming there is one. "That's
just the way it works" or "we do it differently because we are not unix"
are stupid as hell arguments.
No they aren't.
Meanw
Quoting Blake McBride :
From what I saw, the code hadn't changed in a long time, and
wouldn't boot in any environment I had.
You are not a statistical universe.
I now have 9Front running fine, and, in
fact, I am renewing a port of an OO language extension to it.
We already have python, unf
Quoting Blake McBride :
Is one better maintained than the other?
Yes.
Does one have better hardware support than the other?
Yes.
khm
Quoting Blake McBride :
This whole discussion has devolved into a political left vs. right like
debate. Suffice it to say that without a critical mass of users, Bell Labs
and/or Alcatel-Lucent will drop it, it will experience insufficient support
from the user base at large, and it will suffer
Quoting Blake McBride :
All of this talk sound like someone saying: imagine the hurdles of sending
a man to the moon. how can man fly when his weight to strength ratio
is so poor
The only limit is ones imagination and creativity.
Blake
No. Lack of training, an inability to learn
Quoting Conor Williams :
My Research Masters from University of Limerick exploring Plan 9 is now
uploaded to:
http://www.skynet.ie/~will51
Thanks to Russ and the guys
Will be adding to that page in the near future...
Regards
will51 - cw
Congratulations!
khm
Quoting Bruce Ellis :
Let's start a fun thread. I wanna know about experience with SSDs and the
bunny.
Perhaps focusing on a) does it work b) is it worth it.
brucee
For desktop or laptop use, you don't have to treat SSDs any
differently. It's just a hard drive. I've been using various in
Quoting lu...@proxima.alt.za:
Stop being sarcastic and you may stop seeing defensiveness and
hilariousness, too.
Please identify the sarcasm.
As for the Go-vs-Python issue, (a) Python was
latest-"language-cum-fashion-accessory" itself not too long ago and
(b) enough has been written about i
Quoting lu...@proxima.alt.za:
Quoting lu...@proxima.alt.za:
I don't think Go needs to be thrown away, I think it is a motivating
force itself,
Why?
It's my opinion. Do you have a problem with that?
Why do you hold this opinion? While your defensiveness is hilarious, it's a
simple matt
Quoting lu...@proxima.alt.za:
I don't think Go needs to be thrown away, I think it is a motivating
force itself,
Why?
khm
Quoting Terry Wendt :
I have VirtualBox 4.2.6_OSE r82870. I assume the OSE is OpenSuSE Edition.
I think I can get some help installing an older version(4.1.24) on the
OpenSuse forums.
Thanks all.
Terry.
OSE is "open source edition" as opposed to the one nobody ever buys
from Oracle.
khm
Quoting Rob Pike :
He appears not to understand the concept of "research".
-rob
Or, more to the point, "success."
khm
Quoting erik quanstrom :
On Tue Sep 17 10:04:20 EDT 2013, k...@sciops.net wrote:
no, awk's printf does not do that:
minooka; awk 'BEGIN{printf "%c", utf(0)}' | wc
not if you ask it to convert '0' to unicode and then covert
the unicode value to a char, no. I'm almost positive if you
tell it
Quoting dexen deVries :
awk(1) says, ``[s]tring constants are quoted " ", with the usual C escapes
recognized within.'', but \0 seems to terminate internal string
reprezentation...
so how do i output a real NUL byte?
Does printf not do this?
khm
Quoting Bruce Ellis :
I'm not sure how to negotiate this. Tiger says:
1) Go back to 1988.
2) Apply for a license.
3) Run it/enjoy it.
4) Stop being a dick
brucee
I agree to these terms. As soon as I can go back to 1988, I'll stop
being a dick.
khm
Quoting Bruce Ellis :
I was disturbed by the claim that v10 had been lost because of bullshit,
but said nothing.
If indeed someone has lost their v10 I can replace it. If you are in
australia it's easy. Contact me with the details of your import license and
I will arrange for a copy on TK50 for
Quoting Steve Simon :
Don't get me wrong, I am all for sharing code but its to authors right
to decide not to share if they wish.
You're preaching to the choir there. My personal opinion is the last
thing the world needs is more computer software; it merely encourages
people to create mo
I was going to post something along the lines of "if you can't
increase the quality of a product, you can increase its value via
artificial scarcity," but I've been out-trolled already:
Quoting Francisco J Ballesteros :
Sorry to hear that working on it is insulting.
This is either the dum
Quoting dexen deVries :
On Wednesday 28 of August 2013 10:26:01 Erik Quanstrom wrote:
the claim that the devices are in the directories and thus the file system
is still false. even if explorer has some unnecessary code. and plan 9 is
not immune from unnecessary weird bits e.g. the export pro
Quoting erik quanstrom :
> cifs is Windows, i think.
> If this is the case, then you may run into the issue of implicit
> filenames. Search «aux tale», or browse
> .
as entertaining as this is, is isn't true for dos. there
are no device files on dos in *any* directory. they
are a fiction of
On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 11:23:03AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> On Sat Jul 27 11:12:59 EDT 2013, ara...@mgk.ro wrote:
> > > go does not use ape.
> >
> > That is irrelevant to what he said.
>
> the question at hand was the emulation of SIGCLD,
> which on plan 9 is an ape-specific question.
>
i
On Wed, Jul 24, 2013 at 05:59:32AM +0300, Aharon Robbins wrote:
> FYI
>
> Creative usernames and Spotify account hijacking
> http://labs.spotify.com/2013/06/18/creative-usernames/
>
>
> Arnold
>
Seems the thrust of this article is more like "writing secure
public-facing authentication mechani
On Mon, Jul 15, 2013 at 04:07:38PM -0700, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
> the nature of any large, all encompassing thing is to be good and evil all
> at the same time. proof: imagine a company (Google, Microsoft, Oracle, GE,
> etc.) that spans the universe. your perception of whether that thing is
> mos
On Mon, Jul 08, 2013 at 06:09:14AM -0400, Devon H. O'Dell wrote:
> Although I spend a large part of my time on a Mac laptop, I'm a little
> puzzled at how or why one would use two hands with the trackpad
> doohickey. I just have the trackpad built-in -- I don't have the
> wireless trackpad -- but I
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:15:54PM -0700, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
> all i see from you are pronouncements. show us your code.
>
I'm not a programmer; however, we here at 9front Technologies have
deeveloped a new development paradigm we call "trust-based egalitarian
avocational modular wide-area o
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 08:20:56PM +0200, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote:
>
> There is code that is neither secret nor published. Code that does "the"
> or "some" job for the writer but that the writer does not want to
> maintain (for a public audience).
There is no Hague Convention specification th
On Mon, Jun 17, 2013 at 12:41:27PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > Now seriously..., no plan 9 secret society has ever been actually secret
> > and hiding code,
> > as far as I know, that is. The only times I saw someone was keeping code
> > without publishing
> > it was because the code was not
On Fri, Jun 07, 2013 at 09:19:22AM +, visphatesj...@gmail.com wrote:
> is it decent?
>
>
The performance of a web service is the least relevant factor in
determining quality. All web frameworks are performant if set up behind
a proper caching service.
khm
On Mon, Jun 03, 2013 at 03:41:39PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> which is to say that the thesis that fossil sucks is refuted.
>
> - erik
*now* I know what you guys meant by 'snarky comments.'
"Just the place for some Snark!" the 9fan cried,
As he landed his Apples with care;
Supporting each ma
On Sun, Jun 02, 2013 at 10:45:53PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>
> sorry, what point was he making? i saw a clearly false claim unsupported
> by evidence or anecdote that fossil is not stable. but that's not making
> a point.
>
It's been shown that this mailing list is unwilling to admit that
On Sun, Jun 02, 2013 at 10:01:12AM -0700, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
> but was probably abused as a child.
>
This is a perfect counterexample to "it takes no skill to make snarky
comments." You clearly need practice; this one was clumsy.
On Sun, Jun 02, 2013 at 09:49:26AM -0700, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
> my guess is that it's a mutated gene.
>
Ah, a Chomskyite.
On Sun, Jun 02, 2013 at 05:54:14PM +0200, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote:
> I should not be doing it rather than give me an incorrect answer that
> I then use to fire a ballistic missile at the wrong target?
I knew Google was up to something.
khm
On Sun, Jun 02, 2013 at 04:55:59PM +0100, Richard Miller wrote:
> > This paragraph has more qualifiers than your average winter olympics
>
> If you prefer snarky insinuations rather than an attempt to convey
> accurate information, I think you're reading the wrong mailing list.
>
I disagree.
On Sat, Jun 01, 2013 at 07:09:41AM +0100, Richard Miller wrote:
> Nonsense.
>
> I've been using fossil on my main system since 2008, and on a thinkpad
> which I used daily when working at clients' offices for some years
> before that. My professional livelihood depends on the integrity of
> those
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 12:53:03PM -0700, Steven Stallion wrote:
> long-lived fossil (approximately 9 months)
:)
On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 11:02:16AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> now that the 64-bit kernel is real,
Where can I find it?
On Sat, May 25, 2013 at 09:47:05AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>
> why don't we just let the 386 kernel rest in peace and use
> 64-bit for sse?
>
Let's all go buy new computers instead of using the ones we have?
On Fri, May 24, 2013 at 03:45:07PM +0400, Ruslan Khusnullin wrote:
> Hello, 9 fans!
>
> If I wanted to play with native Plan 9 installation or demonstrate it
> to someone, does anyone have a Plan 9 installed on a VPS or a Pi with
> free guest access? It would be nice to be able to drawterm to it.
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 02:05:19PM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote:
> On Fri, 17 May 2013 16:46:25 EDT Matthew Veety wrote:
> > Oh lord this is degenerating to lisp machines.
>
> And the problem with that is?
>
you are a master troll this is awesome
On Fri, May 17, 2013 at 11:45:06AM -0700, Bakul Shah wrote:
>
> I don't see what's the big deal about doing GC In an OS kernel.
>
This is a fantastic troll.
khm
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 10:00:41PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > On 2013-05-03, at 6:51 PM, erik quanstrom wrote:
> >
> > > imho, applying 50 years of experience with spinning hard drives with
> > > the relatively new flash memory drive is a suspect comparison.
> >
> > Is it? Cheap SSD seems
On Fri, May 03, 2013 at 10:22:13AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>
> one question, though. are there better alternatives than ghostscript
evince is a poppler frontend; poppler's problematic dependencies include
glib and cmake. poppler is descended from xpdf, whose problematic
dependencies are in
On Thu, May 02, 2013 at 12:11:26PM -0400, Scott Elcomb wrote:
> On Wed, May 1, 2013 at 10:46 PM, mycroftiv 9gridchan
> wrote:
> > The Loonie Revolution is proud to announce and sponsor:
> >
> > CODE AS THOU WILT SHALL BE THE WHOLE OF THE LAW summer
>
> Is this statement available on a web page so
Why does this functionality have to be overloaded into existing tools
that are already in common use?
khm
On Tue, Apr 30, 2013 at 11:31:48AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> > with Plan 9 (but then almost nothing posted on 9fans does) and
>
> nominated for the the geekier-than-thou meme of the week.
>
> - erik
>
I thought 9fans was a raspberry pi support list.
khm
On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 01:52:32PM -0600, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
> I wish the "goblin" project was used to re-imagine how the old plan9
> commands may be done in a new language, rather than simply rewriting
> the commands almost line-for-line while introducing errors.
Most of the code in goblin
On Tue, Apr 23, 2013 at 04:36:23PM -0400, Matthew Veety wrote:
>
> That's fucking stupid. Can he still work on a project with out getting paid
> for it?
I'm pretty certain gsoc mentors don't have to sign noncompetes.
khm
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