Re: [9fans] FAWN: Fast array of wimpy nodes (was: Plan 9 - the next 20 years)

2009-04-20 Thread John Barham
could you explain how raid 5 relates to sata vs sas? i can't see now it's anything but a non-sequitor. Here is the motivating real-world business case: You are in the movie post-production business and need 50 TB of online storage at as low a price as possible with good performance and

Re: [9fans] FAWN: Fast array of wimpy nodes (was: Plan 9 - the next 20 years)

2009-04-20 Thread ron minnich
On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 12:58 AM, John Barham jbar...@gmail.com wrote: I certainly can't think ahead 20 years but I think it's safe to say that the next 5 (at least doing HPC and large-scale web type stuff) will increasingly look like this: http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/22504/?a=f,

Re: [9fans] FAWN: Fast array of wimpy nodes (was: Plan 9 - the next 20 years)

2009-04-20 Thread erik quanstrom
On Mon Apr 20 11:13:01 EDT 2009, jbar...@gmail.com wrote: could you explain how raid 5 relates to sata vs sas? i can't see now it's anything but a non-sequitor. Here is the motivating real-world business case: You are in the movie post-production business and need 50 TB of online storage

Re: [9fans] FAWN: Fast array of wimpy nodes (was: Plan 9 - the next 20 years)

2009-04-20 Thread Wes Kussmaul
ron minnich wrote: RLX and Orion multisystems showed there is not much of a market for lots of wimpy nodes -- yet or never, is the real question. Either way, they did not have enough buyers to stay in business. And RLX had to drop its wimpy transmetas for P4s, and they could not keep up with the

[9fans] FAWN: Fast array of wimpy nodes (was: Plan 9 - the next 20 years)

2009-04-19 Thread John Barham
I certainly can't think ahead 20 years but I think it's safe to say that the next 5 (at least doing HPC and large-scale web type stuff) will increasingly look like this: http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/22504/?a=f, which talks about building a cluster from AMD Geode (!) nodes w/ compact

Re: [9fans] FAWN: Fast array of wimpy nodes (was: Plan 9 - the next 20 years)

2009-04-19 Thread Eric Van Hensbergen
On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 2:58 AM, John Barham jbar...@gmail.com wrote: I certainly can't think ahead 20 years but I think it's safe to say that the next 5 (at least doing HPC and large-scale web type stuff) will increasingly look like this: http://www.technologyreview.com/computing/22504/?a=f,

Re: [9fans] FAWN: Fast array of wimpy nodes (was: Plan 9 - the next 20 years)

2009-04-19 Thread John Barham
Economics beats technology every time (e.g., x86/amd64 vs. MIPS/Itanium, Ethernet vs. Infiniband, SATA vs. SCSI) so don't try to fight it. if those examples prove your point, i'm not sure i agree. having just completed a combined-mode sata/sas driver, scsi vs ata is is fresh on my mind.  

Re: [9fans] FAWN: Fast array of wimpy nodes (was: Plan 9 - the next 20 years)

2009-04-19 Thread erik quanstrom
To clarify, I meant that given X vs. Y, the cost benefits of X eventually overwhelm the initial technical benefits of Y. With SATA vs. SCSI in particular, I wasn't so much thinking of command sets or physical connections but of providing cluster scale storage (i.e., 10's or 100's of TB)

Re: [9fans] FAWN: Fast array of wimpy nodes (was: Plan 9 - the next 20 years)

2009-04-19 Thread tlaronde
On Sun, Apr 19, 2009 at 09:27:43AM -0500, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote: I'm not convinced that such ad-hoc DSM models are the way to go as a general principal. Full blown DSM didn't fair very well in the past. Plan 9 distributed applications take a different approach and instead of sharing