> you dont need a dedicated swap partition. just swap to a /tmp file.
Oh, yes.
I forgot such a possibility.
Pavel
> > But in my case, it is easier, faster and cheaper to reinstall Plan 9 with
> > larger (if working) swap partition than increase the RAM size.
> it would be far easier for you to just remove the *experimental* go package.
Already done, and my work continues... ;)
Pavel
you dont need a dedicated swap partition. just swap
to a /tmp file.
--
cinap
> It seems true.
>
> But in my case, it is easier, faster and cheaper to reinstall Plan 9 with
> larger (if working) swap partition than increase the RAM size.
> However it is just a theory since official Plan 9 does not have a working
> swap...
it would be far easier for you to just remove the
> there are good reasons for dropping swap all together -
> it is very slow, rarely used, and ram is cheap these days.
It seems true.
But in my case, it is easier, faster and cheaper to reinstall Plan 9 with
larger (if working) swap partition than increase the RAM size.
However it is just a the
On Sun, Nov 04, 2012 at 05:27:58PM +0100, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote:
>
> Has a "paging / swapping" filesystem (non persistent data, processes dependant
> timelife "memory" allocation, with storing/reloading to/from disk, and
> use of real memory when available) been attempted?
>
Just to add wha
What is really needed is to have some of your hotshot programmers develop on 3+
year old "average" computers. Their code bloat will reduce when their own
productivity suffers due to slow machines.
Still there will be cases where a lean program will run out of memory. It
should do its own memory
On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 06:48:47PM +, Charles Forsyth wrote:
> Wilkes has a nice discussion of paging algorithms as an application of
> control theory
> in "The Dynamics of Paging".
> http://comjnl.oxfordjournals.org/content/16/1/4.short
>
> "It is notorious that the use of apparently innocuou
On 11/03/2012 02:48 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote:
local paging algorithms can avoid thrashing: "the process pages against
itself".
global paging algorithms typically do not (invariably do not, in my
experience, but most people use essentially the same one, so there might
be some that worked).
Wilke
that paging sucks is not a very new discovery.
On Sat Nov 3 14:49:39 EDT 2012, charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote:
> local paging algorithms can avoid thrashing: "the process pages
> against itself". global paging algorithms typically do not
> (invariably do not, in my experience, but most people use essentially
> the same one, so there might b
- Dan C.
Glad to see you survived the storm Dan.
-Steve
>> Are you deliberately conflating swapping and paging?
>
> in modern systems, i believe they mean the same thing.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paging#Terminology
>
>> memory deduplication? is that true?
>
> http://lwn.net/Articles/454795/
most things I learn about on 9fans (and why I'm happil
local paging algorithms can avoid thrashing: "the process pages against
itself".
global paging algorithms typically do not (invariably do not, in my
experience, but most people use essentially the same one, so there might be
some that worked).
Wilkes has a nice discussion of paging algorithms as a
On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 01:57:10PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>
> however, i think that queuing theory in general says that one queue with
> global
> sorting beats n smaller queues with local sorting. i think this is sometimes
> called the
> checkout-line problem.
>
This would be true, I th
>
> This makes more sense. However, if your hypervisor is swapping, you've
> screwed up your planning. RAM oversubscription is the reason most
> dime-store VPS services suck really badly. I leave swapping to the
> guest OS, since that's where malloc is being called.
i'm not a big vm guy, but i
On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 01:40:48PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> perhaps my comment about double-swap/paging was not clear
> enough. i was considering the hosted os, with some standard
> vm such as esxi, vbox, xen or whatever as the host. in such a case it makes
> no sense to me for the hosted o
On Sat Nov 3 13:14:17 EDT 2012, kh...@intma.in wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 01:04:15PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> >
> > in modern systems, i believe they mean the same thing.
> >
> > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paging#Terminology
> >
>
> Sorry, I didn't know you were talking about Win
On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 01:22:50PM -0400, Dan Cross wrote:
>
> I didn't know you were talking about VAX Unix.
>
Thanks for letting me know.
>
> That's odd, because Erik was pretty obviously talking about the host
> virtual machine.
>
"Host virtual machine," eh?
> But hey; whatever. It's co
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 1:13 PM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 01:04:15PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>> in modern systems, i believe they mean the same thing.
>>
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paging#Terminology
>
> Sorry, I didn't know you were talking about Windows NT.
I didn'
On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 01:04:15PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>
> in modern systems, i believe they mean the same thing.
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paging#Terminology
>
Sorry, I didn't know you were talking about Windows NT.
> > memory deduplication? is that true?
>
> http://lwn.net/A
>
> does plan 9 run on any ultrabooks natively? swapping within a vm?
> my head hurts to think of it.
>
> - erik
>
I have 9front running natively with some help on my MacBook Air. Ive been
working on getting rid of the help.
--
Veety
On Sat Nov 3 12:52:03 EDT 2012, kh...@intma.in wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 12:33:52PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> >
> > usually the vm does paging itself, and often more complicated things like
> > memory compression and deduplication. so why would the hosted os page as
> > well?
> >
>
On Sat, Nov 3, 2012 at 9:31 AM, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 11:40:05AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>>
>> does plan 9 run on any ultrabooks natively? swapping within a vm?
>> my head hurts to think of it.
>>
>
> Your head hurts to think that sometimes extra memory is needed? On
On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 12:33:52PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>
> usually the vm does paging itself, and often more complicated things like
> memory compression and deduplication. so why would the hosted os page as
> well?
>
Are you deliberately conflating swapping and paging?
On Sat Nov 3 12:32:38 EDT 2012, kh...@intma.in wrote:
> On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 11:40:05AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> >
> > does plan 9 run on any ultrabooks natively? swapping within a vm?
> > my head hurts to think of it.
> >
>
> Your head hurts to think that sometimes extra memory is ne
On Sat, Nov 03, 2012 at 11:40:05AM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
>
> does plan 9 run on any ultrabooks natively? swapping within a vm?
> my head hurts to think of it.
>
Your head hurts to think that sometimes extra memory is needed? On the
VMs I host for people, I partition 256 MB of memory. T
We'll see.
I'll reiterate my original remark that it would be worthwhile tracking down
and fixing the virtual memory or paging bug in sources plan 9,
not necessarily to make use of paging, but to ensure that the paging
problem isn't just a symptom of something else that normally gets by.
If 9front
On Sat Nov 3 05:17:39 EDT 2012, charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote:
> And soldered onto motherboards in many ultrabooks.
>
> On 3 November 2012 06:53, steve wrote:
>
> > and ram is cheap these days.
does plan 9 run on any ultrabooks natively? swapping within a vm?
my head hurts to think of it.
> And soldered onto motherboards in many ultrabooks.
>
> On 3 November 2012 06:53, steve wrote:
>
>> and ram is cheap these days.
>>
Should that "And" not be a "But"? There is little cheap about
soldered RAM, if you need to increase it.
++L
PS: I'd be curious to see a mathematical explanation
On Sat Nov 3 02:54:52 EDT 2012, st...@quintile.net wrote:
> if you use the 9front distribution swap works,
> if you use the either 9atom or the labs distribution it does not.
>
> the labs or erik may take the fixes from 9front but there are good reasons
> for dropping swap all together - it is ve
if you use the 9front distribution swap works,
if you use the either 9atom or the labs distribution it does not.
the labs or erik may take the fixes from 9front but there are good reasons
for dropping swap all together - it is very slow, rarely used,
and ram is cheap these days.
i think this is a
To be clear, is the swap partition completely useless in Plan9?
pmarin.
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 9:28 PM, Charles Forsyth
wrote:
> There's a non-trivial chance that what now goes wrong with paging
> (which did once work, even if it isn't great) is a symptom of a bug
> that afflicts the virtual mem
There's a non-trivial chance that what now goes wrong with paging
(which did once work, even if it isn't great) is a symptom of a bug
that afflicts the virtual memory code itself. (For instance, a page unlocked
during a critical period, a race, and so on.)
On 2 November 2012 19:18, erik quanstro
On Fri Nov 2 15:10:00 EDT 2012, skip.tavakkol...@gmail.com wrote:
> it's by design:
> http://9fans.net/archive/2006/07/229
>
> -Skip
>
> On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Pavel Klinkovsky
> wrote:
> >>> It really seems as a problem with swap. :(
> >>
> >> this is well known, and solutions are av
it's by design:
http://9fans.net/archive/2006/07/229
-Skip
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Pavel Klinkovsky
wrote:
>>> It really seems as a problem with swap. :(
>>
>> this is well known, and solutions are available
>> even if you don't care to use them.
>
> Oh, does it mean the official Plan 9
> Swap has been broken since at least 2005 (my first experiments with
> Plan 9). Once I stopped trying to compile ghostscript on a 32 MB
> laptop, I never really had problems with the lack... hell, I did my
> master's work and most of my personal computing on a laptop with only
> 1 GB of RAM and no
On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Pavel Klinkovsky
wrote:
>>> It really seems as a problem with swap. :(
>>
>> this is well known, and solutions are available
>> even if you don't care to use them.
>
> Oh, does it mean the official Plan 9 distribution contains non-working swap?
> :O
> It is clear
>> It really seems as a problem with swap. :(
>
> this is well known, and solutions are available
> even if you don't care to use them.
Oh, does it mean the official Plan 9 distribution contains non-working swap? :O
It is clear I missed something...
Sorry for the noise.
Pavel
On Fri Nov 2 12:24:44 EDT 2012, pavel.klinkov...@gmail.com wrote:
> I prepared the very simple program sequentially allocating 1 MB blocks of
> memory.
> When it reached the end of RAM, the kernel panic occured.
>
> It really seems as a problem with swap. :(
this is well known, and solutions ar
I prepared the very simple program sequentially allocating 1 MB blocks of
memory.
When it reached the end of RAM, the kernel panic occured.
It really seems as a problem with swap. :(
Pavel
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