Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread Akshat Kumar
http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html Programming languages are just tools, after all. Considering that Plan 9 has only two inherent languages, and its users often push for work to be done in only those, what is the Plan 9 perspective of languages and tools in relation to each other? Is it in

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread Richard Miller
One serious question today would be: what's LISP _really_ good for? http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread tlaronde
On Sat, Sep 05, 2009 at 07:22:37AM -0400, Akshat Kumar wrote: Programming languages are just tools, after all. Considering that Plan 9 has only two inherent languages, and its users often push for work to be done in only those, what is the Plan 9 perspective of languages and tools in

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread Anthony Sorace
Akshat said: // Considering that Plan 9 has only two inherent languages... I'm curious which two you meant. Most of the code running on my Plan 9 installations is written in either C or rc. For code I've written running on it, Limbo is about as high. And of course there's a little assembly down

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread Eris Discordia
Let me be a little pedantic. The 9fans know given the haphazard nature of a hobbyist's knowledge I am extremely bad at this, but then let me give it a try. FYI, it's been Lisp for a while. As long as Britannica and Merriam-Webster call it LISP I don't think calling it LISP would be

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread Eris Discordia
One serious question today would be: what's LISP _really_ good for? http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html I could do a similar thing: http://www.schnada.de/quotes/contempt.html#struetics ... and leave you wondering (or not). I won't. Paul Graham's essay/article consists of a success story,

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread Eris Discordia
I forgot this: Graham basically accuses programmers who don't find LISP as attractive (or powerful, as he puts it) as he does of living on lower planes of existence from which the heavens above of functional (or only LISP) programming seem incomprehensible. He writes/speaks persuasively, he's

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread Eris Discordia
general-purpose language good for system programming--you seem to call that being a good OS language-- I take this part back. I mixed your post with Jason Catena's for a moment. --On Saturday, September 05, 2009 15:14 +0100 Eris Discordia eris.discor...@gmail.com wrote: Let me be a little

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread Eris Discordia
Oh, yay, a Xah Lee quote, he's surely a trusted source on all things Lisp. Didja read his page about hiring a prostitute in Las Vegas? Or the one about how he lives in a car in the Bay Area because he's too crazy to get hired? Patience, brother. Search Paul Graham on that page and let your mind

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread erik quanstrom
i'm not a lisp fan. but it's discouraging to see such lack of substance as the following (collected from a few posts): Oh, yay, a Xah Lee quote, he's surely a trusted source on all things Lisp. Didja read his page about hiring a prostitute in Las Vegas? Or the one about how he lives in a car

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread Daniel Lyons
Eris, Using your theories, please explain why Lisp and Plan 9 both hover around the same level of popularity (i.e., not very, but not dead either). — Daniel Lyons

[9fans] Disks not detected while installing Plan 9 on Dell OptiPlex GX1

2009-09-05 Thread Matt Adams
Hi folks: I have an older Dell OptiPlex GX1 (600MHz PIII) that I am having trouble installing Plan 9 onto. I am using a bootable CD ISO of Plan 9 that I downloaded last night so things should be current. The system has two 130GB hard drives installed. Everything works under Debian Linux.

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread Eris Discordia
I forgot this: Graham basically accuses programmers who don't find LISP as attractive (or powerful, as he puts it) as he does of living on lower planes of existence from which the heavens above of functional (or only LISP) programming seem incomprehensible. He writes/speaks persuasively, he's

Re: [9fans] Disks not detected while installing Plan 9 on Dell OptiPlex GX1

2009-09-05 Thread erik quanstrom
I have an older Dell OptiPlex GX1 (600MHz PIII) that I am having trouble installing Plan 9 onto. I am using a bootable CD ISO of Plan 9 that I downloaded last night so things should be current. The system has two 130GB hard drives installed. Everything works under Debian Linux. would

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread erik quanstrom
I wasn't, in this case at least, implying something not backed by firm evidence. Conditional branching embodied in actual computers goes back to Plankalkuel on Z3. The idea is as early as Babbage. It comes as natural even to first-timers, following much more difficult conception of a notion

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread Eris Discordia
so you're saying that the table in this section is wrong? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer#History_of_computing if it is and you can back it up, i sugeest you fix wikipedia. It isn't wrong. The exact wording from The First Computers: History and Architectures goes: The instruction

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread erik quanstrom
The instruction most conspicuously absent from the instruction set of the Z3 is conditional branching. [...] but there is no straightforward way to implement conditional sequences of instructions. However, we will show later than conditional branching can be simulated on this machine. i

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread Jason Catena
Hailed Eris: I was alluding to the expressive power of C versus LISP considered with respect to the primitives available on one's computing platform and primitives in which solutions to one's problems are best expressed. I think one of the reasons there exists little languages, and cliches

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread David Leimbach
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 6:58 PM, Jason Catena jason.cat...@gmail.com wrote: Hailed Eris: I was alluding to the expressive power of C versus LISP considered with respect to the primitives available on one's computing platform and primitives in which solutions to one's problems are best

Re: [9fans] nice quote

2009-09-05 Thread J.R. Mauro
On Sat, Sep 5, 2009 at 2:26 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: i'm not a lisp fan.  but it's discouraging to see such lack of substance as the following (collected from a few posts): Oh, yay, a Xah Lee quote, he's surely a trusted source on all things Lisp. Didja read his page