Re: [9fans] file server speed
On Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 7:04 PM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: not a fair comparsion. Yes, I'd have been more specific. my intension was cwfs fossil+venti of 9atom fossil+venti labs. I did not consider kenfs itself, because I consider it should be file+auth+cpu server. The last is not important, but for drawterm from others. Recent kenfs can be such a machine? Please remember I plan it for my private home machine, not any sofisticated office use. kenfs works well, but you have to be well prepared to maintain it. Invest in a decent UPS - preferably one that is supported by the auto-shutdown (ISTR support was added for that a while back). You need to be careful when sizing your cache - I would invest in a pair of decent SSDs for cache, and two or more drives for housing the WORM. Be prepared for failure. The last large kensfs I maintained (around 16TB usable, 48TB raw) worked very well but would still crash one every year or two. Make sure you keep hard copies of your fsconfig and get comfortable with scripting as erik mentioned. That was in an office environment. At home I use fossil+(plan9port)venti running on linux-based NAS. This ends up working very well for me since I have resources to spare on that machine. This also lets me backup my arenas via CrashPlan. I use a cheap SSD for fossil in my file server and a small SATA DOM for booting (the idea is I can throw away the SSD at any time and still recover). Speed has been on par with kenfs, but it takes a little work to get there. I hope this is useful to you - maintaining an fs shouldn't be taken on lightly, but it is one of the best ways to understand what it means to maintain a plan9 installation. Cheers, Steve
[9fans] Two Acme questions
Hey guys, I've been using acme as my main editor for going on two weeks now and I'm starting to get the hang of it! I've got two questions though if anyone can offer some input. First, after using plan9 and plan9port I've noticed that on plan9port (from Arch Linux's repository) the tagline seems to have the ability to wrap onto multiple lines. I quite like it because I end up with some (unfortunately unavoidable) long paths in them. Plan9's acme (I'm using 9atom) doesn't seem to do this and just gets cut off the end. Is there a way to let it wrap? I could not find any related comments in the manual. Secondly, I'm trying to make a little guide script for acme so I can write Guide in the tagline and whenever I run it a +Errors window shows a quick jump-to list for the functions in the file. I've got a small awk script ready and working and generating output in the right format but I can't seem to get it to plug in to acme in plan9port. I've attempted to do 9p read /acme/$winid/body but I keep getting connect: /tmp/ns.riddler.:0/: Connection refused I found a few references to this error in context with factotum but not any fixes. Any suggestions as to what I'm missing? Thanks, Riddler.
Re: [9fans] file server speed
Recent kenfs can be such a machine? Please remember I plan it for my private home machine, not any sofisticated office use. i use ken's file server for personal use. i enjoy the fact that a cpu kernel panic does not impact the file server. - erik
Re: [9fans] file server speed
On Wed Jul 16 13:06:16 EDT 2014, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: kenfs(of course 64 bit)+auth server +++9pi terminal/cpu server may be best for home use... i would go ahead and use to raspberry pi machines. having a dedicated cpu server is quite nice, and of course ken's file server is not an auth server. - erik
Re: [9fans] Two Acme questions
First, after using plan9 and plan9port I've noticed that on plan9port (from Arch Linux's repository) the tagline seems to have the ability to wrap onto multiple lines. I quite like it because I end up with some (unfortunately unavoidable) long paths in them. Plan9's acme (I'm using 9atom) doesn't seem to do this and just gets cut off the end. Is there a way to let it wrap? I could not find any related comments in the manual. you'd need to backport p9p acme to plan 9. Secondly, I'm trying to make a little guide script for acme so I can write Guide in the tagline and whenever I run it a +Errors window shows a quick jump-to list for the functions in the file. I've got a small awk script ready and working and generating output in the right format but I can't seem to get it to plug in to acme in plan9port. I've attempted to do 9p read /acme/$winid/body but I keep getting connect: /tmp/ns.riddler.:0/: Connection refused I found a few references to this error in context with factotum but not any fixes. Any suggestions as to what I'm missing? are you running plumber? - erik
Re: [9fans] Two Acme questions
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 1:28 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: First, after using plan9 and plan9port I've noticed that on plan9port (from Arch Linux's repository) the tagline seems to have the ability to wrap onto multiple lines. I quite like it because I end up with some (unfortunately unavoidable) long paths in them. Plan9's acme (I'm using 9atom) doesn't seem to do this and just gets cut off the end. Is there a way to let it wrap? I could not find any related comments in the manual. you'd need to backport p9p acme to plan 9. This has been done for 9front.
Re: [9fans] file server speed
kenfs works well, but you have to be well prepared to maintain it. Invest in a decent UPS - preferably one that is supported by the auto-shutdown (ISTR support was added for that a while back). You need to be careful when sizing your cache - I would invest in a pair of decent SSDs for cache, and two or more drives for housing the WORM. Be prepared for failure. The last large kensfs I maintained (around 16TB usable, 48TB raw) worked very well but would still crash one every year or two. Make sure you keep hard copies of your fsconfig and get comfortable with scripting as erik mentioned. the cache comment is spot on. i've stuck with 20GB caches. this is because a very large cache will use too many buckets. buckets are stored on disk in the cache, but a bucket needs to be in memory to use that part of the cache. with too many buckets, most of the i/o will be thrashing through different buckets. i'm very familiar with doing this wrong, as i set up one machine (kibbiee, for those who remember) with a 750G cache. that was a bad idea. i'd have to add that after running ken's file server at home since 2005, and at least half a dozen in work environments, the file system has been pretty good with my data. from 2006 to 2008 i ran with local scsi disks on an old va linux box. in that location i had no ups, and lightning took out power about once a week. suprisingly, this didn't cause any trouble. the only time i did have trouble was not the file server's fault entirely. the storage was disconnected during a dump, and then the file server was rebooted. in that case, only the corrupt dump was lost. clearly any file server is ideally on a ups, with generator backup and automatic shutdown. :-) in my experience, using ssds for cache doesn't speed up the file server much, since one is usually rtt limited, and by craftiness with the cache, files are typically written sequentially to the disk. i have ssds in my current file server, and am a bit disappointed in the performance. - erik
Re: [9fans] simplest disk filesystem
What is the motivation of choosing a distributed OS without wanting to explain how distributed operating systems work? the standard definition of distributed os rather excludes plan 9. - erik
Re: [9fans] Two Acme questions
you'd need to backport p9p acme to plan 9. This has been done for 9front. Some additional features were implemented in 9front's copy of Plan 9 acme, but it's not accurate to say p9p acme was backported to 9front. sl
Re: [9fans] simplest disk filesystem
Quoting erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net: What is the motivation of choosing a distributed OS without wanting to explain how distributed operating systems work? the standard definition of distributed os rather excludes plan 9. - erik Please document this standard, including which standards body ratified it. khm
Re: [9fans] simplest disk filesystem
It just seems like creating a fake os (as in, no one even intends to use this os) from scratch in order to explain a real os (as in, the goal is to finally understand or at least use this os) makes things even more difficult to understand. sl
Re: [9fans] simplest disk filesystem
Yes, maybe you’re right :) I’ll probably stick to the idea on just focus on devroot.c as someone suggested. On Jul 16, 2014, at 11:17 AM, s...@9front.org wrote: It just seems like creating a fake os (as in, no one even intends to use this os) from scratch in order to explain a real os (as in, the goal is to finally understand or at least use this os) makes things even more difficult to understand. sl
Re: [9fans] Two Acme questions
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Lee Fallat ircsurfe...@gmail.com wrote: This has been done for 9front. Only partially. The tag expands to multiple lines, but does not accept newlines. Also, sl is right. -- Aram Hăvărneanu
Re: [9fans] Two Acme questions
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 3:14 PM, Aram Hăvărneanu ara...@mgk.ro wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 7:31 PM, Lee Fallat ircsurfe...@gmail.com wrote: This has been done for 9front. Only partially. The tag expands to multiple lines, but does not accept newlines. Also, sl is right. Yes, I was too hasty with my response. sl is right.
Re: [9fans] file server speed
i use ken's file server for personal use. i enjoy the fact that a cpu kernel panic does not impact the file server. My desire is to have one file server with auth server and any numbers of terminals which can also be used as cpu server (for drawterm). In this case the smallest config is a file server and a terminal/cpu server. Ken's file server is standallone and has special user space. Then can we add auth functinality on this file server machine? Kenji
Re: [9fans] file server speed
That was in an office environment. At home I use fossil+(plan9port)venti running on linux-based NAS. Do you use wireless LAN? If so you also need wireless bridge? The combination of NAS and venti sounds like charm, because the snmallest config is two machines. How about the power-eating of that machine? Recent low-power machine can do that task? Kenji
Re: [9fans] file server speed
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 6:15 PM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: That was in an office environment. At home I use fossil+(plan9port)venti running on linux-based NAS. Do you use wireless LAN? If so you also need wireless bridge? The combination of NAS and venti sounds like charm, because the snmallest config is two machines. How about the power-eating of that machine? Recent low-power machine can do that task? I've used ReadyNAS appliances at home for almost 10 years. The current product line is made up of low-power Atoms. I'm running a RAID5 across 4 500G enterprise SATA drives (that should indicate how old this unit is pretty well...) I have a wired network primarily in the rack in the office at home - I absolutely would not use wireless to connect fossil to venti (fossil does *not* cope well with the connection to venti dropping). I switched over to fossil on the ReadyNAS a little over a year ago and have had really good luck; not a single crash. Performance has also been very good. It just so happens I wrote a README at the time since it was non-obvious how to set it up correctly: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102312978/FOSSIL Cheers, Steve
Re: [9fans] file server speed
On Wed, 16 Jul 2014 19:29:43 CDT Steven Stallion sstall...@gmail.com wrote: I absolutely would not use wireless to connect fossil to venti (fossil does *not* cope well with the connection to venti dropping). To deal with this you can use a local venti proxy like contrib/vsrinvas/vtrc.c. One change I would like is to see is to cache all the blocks for the last (or last N) snapshots so that disconnected operation is possible. Not sure if there is a way to do this within fossil.
Re: [9fans] file server speed
On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 9:53 AM, Ramakrishnan Muthukrishnan vu3...@gmail.com wrote: I am very interested to use such a setup. Could you please add more about the setup? What hardware do you use for the NAS? Any scripts etc? Sure thing - I've copied everything you should need under sources/contrib/stallion/venti (http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/stallion/venti/) Steve
Re: [9fans] file server speed
Sorry, found it now. On 07/17/2014 07:31 AM, Steven Stallion wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Steven Stallion sstall...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 6:15 PM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: It just so happens I wrote a README at the time since it was non-obvious how to set it up correctly: Corrected link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102312978/FOSSIL%2BVENTI -- John Francis Lee Thanon Sanam Gila, Ban Fa Sai 79/151 Moo 22 T. Ropwieng Mueang Chiangrai 57000 Thailand
Re: [9fans] file server speed
Not Found The resource could not be found. WSGI Server On 07/17/2014 07:29 AM, Steven Stallion wrote: On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 6:15 PM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: That was in an office environment. At home I use fossil+(plan9port)venti running on linux-based NAS. Do you use wireless LAN? If so you also need wireless bridge? The combination of NAS and venti sounds like charm, because the snmallest config is two machines. How about the power-eating of that machine? Recent low-power machine can do that task? I've used ReadyNAS appliances at home for almost 10 years. The current product line is made up of low-power Atoms. I'm running a RAID5 across 4 500G enterprise SATA drives (that should indicate how old this unit is pretty well...) I have a wired network primarily in the rack in the office at home - I absolutely would not use wireless to connect fossil to venti (fossil does *not* cope well with the connection to venti dropping). I switched over to fossil on the ReadyNAS a little over a year ago and have had really good luck; not a single crash. Performance has also been very good. It just so happens I wrote a README at the time since it was non-obvious how to set it up correctly: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102312978/FOSSIL Cheers, Steve -- John Francis Lee Thanon Sanam Gila, Ban Fa Sai 79/151 Moo 22 T. Ropwieng Mueang Chiangrai 57000 Thailand
[9fans] kbdputc() in devcons.c in 9front?
I'm checking how I should build my Plan9 system in my home environment. As I said before, we have to save power as possible as we can (no nuclear power energy here). If I choose one file/auth/cpu server machine, Plan9front may be fastest. However, I have here one serious problem. Ktrans does not work on it. You, 9front developpers, created kbdfs, and lost kbdputc() in port/devcdons.c. Most of pc/kbd.c stuffs are driven out to user space, kbdfs. In lab's or 9atom's distribution, I can have /rc/bin/Kanji, like: #!/bin/rc pipefile -r ktrans /dev/cons rio -i $home/lib/windows /dev/cons This assumes that the keyboard input from stdin, and produces kanji translated character to /dev/cons. What is the merrit to create kbdfs? I cann't see it, but only demerit like above. Kenji
