Re: [9fans] VCS on Plan9

The Bell Labs approach to source control was, I'm, weak. It relied on snapshots of the tree and out-of-band communication. Don't forget how small and tight-knit that development team was, and how valuable perfect historic snapshots were. Add that 40 years ago source code revision control

Re: [9fans] Script to apply Edit commands in acme

You can, of course, execute multiple commands in one Edit, either lineline or chroding the "{}" block: Edit { ,x/a/c/b/ ,x/d/c/e/ } On Wed, Jan 18, 2023 at 8:46 AM Henri Ducrocq wrote: > Here is a script I wrote to run any arbitrary command (Edit, Look, etc) > in a window (current one by

Re: [9fans] porting projects...

Do the other platforms do their own acceleration management? That makes you want to feed deltas instead of absolutes. On Mon, Sep 6, 2021, 1:13 PM Stuart Morrow wrote: > On 06/09/2021, Paul Lalonde wrote: > > It does look like this would need raw mouse state to get the DX/Dy data &g

Re: [9fans] porting projects...

It does look like this would need raw mouse state to get the DX/Dy data instead of absolute screen positions. On Mon, Sep 6, 2021, 12:36 PM Stuart Morrow wrote: > On 06/09/2021, Skip Tavakkolian wrote: > > To be clear, the discussion is about sharing a Plan 9 term's > > mouse/keyboard with

Re: [9fans] Drawterm GPU (was: Software philosophy)

d/reading/myer-sutherland-design-of-display-processors.pdf>" > has not only stopped but exploded :-) Or stopped being applicable. > > -- Bakul > > On Aug 22, 2021, at 9:23 AM, Paul Lalonde > wrote: > > It got complicated because there's no stable interface or IS

Re: [9fans] Drawterm GPU (was: Software philosophy)

code. drm/amd over 2M lines of code. Intel's i915 seems to > be about 1/10th the amd size. AIUI, this is linux GPU driver code, more or > less unchanged (FreeBSD has shim code to use it). How did the interface to > an SIMD processor get so complicated? > > On Aug 22, 2021, at 6:44

Re: [9fans] Drawterm GPU (was: Software philosophy)

I'd love to see GPU support for Plan9. This discussion falls right into my professional capacity. I'll say that people generally *grossly* underestimate the complexity of a modern GPU and of its supporting software stack. The GPU driver is effectively a second operating system with shared

Re: [9fans] Searching sam for text

I occasionally do (in acme, sam MMV) ,x/open/+-{ p } It separates the match from the address by a newline, but works well enough for my needs. On Mon, Aug 2, 2021 at 9:39 AM wrote: > In sam if I invoke ,x g//+-p sam prints out the hits in the sam > window by lines. I was wondering if there is

Re: [9fans] Alternative to fine-grained mouse usage?

There's a huge difference using my mouse in Plan9 than in Plan9port on my mac. Plan9 feels almost unusable by comparison. I suspect much of this is the very finely tuned acceleration/fine-pointing behavior of the mouse on modern desktop platforms. That's probably a ripe space for improving the

Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?

You're now asking a question of ABI (application binary interface) more than of the compiler. The ABI is the hard part - what the calling conventions are, linkage and executable formats, etc, which vary significantly from system to system. You may find a way to compile the compiler so it runs in

Re: [9fans] Jim McKie

That's sad news indeed. I haven't seen him in ten years, but always enjoyed his wry humor. He always made me feel welcome on the community. Paul On Wed., Jun. 24, 2020, 5:37 p.m. Charles Forsyth, < charles.fors...@gmail.com> wrote: > I am sorry to say that Jim McKie (jmk) died suddenly on 16

Re: [9fans] IWP92020 Announcement

This would totally happen in Waterloo right after I moved away! Paul On Mon., Jan. 13, 2020, 6:18 p.m. , wrote: > IWP92020 is happening. Submit papers and sign up here: > > http://iwp9.org > > Hope to see you there! > -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink:

Re: [9fans] Acme Edit to remove lines

x/^X.*\n/d Or x/^X/+-d Away from a terminal so probably subtly wrong. On Fri, May 26, 2017 at 7:23 AM dexen deVries wrote: > given multi-line dot, spanning only part of a file, how do i construct > an Edit command to remove lines matching certain regular expression? > >

Re: [9fans] Acme and Git

I'll give Watch and a bit of scripting a shot. I couldn't find a git "HEAD changed" hook to tie to, so Watch is pretty much the right thing. Thanks! On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 9:04 PM Erik Quanstrom <quans...@quanstro.net> wrote: > try writing the file?  > > On F

Re: [9fans] Acme and Git

Do you have a pointer to Russ's Watch? I quick dig shows I have poor Google-fu. Paul On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 12:23 PM Bakul Shah <ba...@bitblocks.com> wrote: > May be use Russ'es Watch command? > > > On Feb 15, 2017, at 5:05 AM, Paul Lalonde <paul.a.lalo...@gmail.com>

[9fans] Acme and Git

I know I'm not the only acme user who uses Git extensively :-) Is there some way to tell if a file is changed on disk that is open in an editor window? I frequently change branches and I often find myself editing stale versions. I notice when comes time to Put, but that's a bit late. Any tips

Re: [9fans] using git

I'd like to hear it too - much to learn from others' process. Paul On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 4:16 AM Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 March 2015 at 18:26, arn...@skeeve.com wrote: Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote: On 19 March 2015 at 16:09,

Re: [9fans] easier refreshing of acme wins

The feature direction I'd like when working with Git is for the window of a git-changed file to become un-editable. This would require adding the idea of a un-editable window, which is probably a bad idea. Meanwhile I use the script below to generate X commands to reload changed windows. If I

Re: [9fans] [acme] Edit command -- More than one argument?

Yes, the scroll wheel forward expands to the full size, and backwards reduces it to one line; this is as designed, and only on the wheel for lack of a better UI idea. I can't say that it has any amount of documentation or discoverability :-( I see what you mean about the jitter on expand

Re: [9fans] [acme] Edit command -- More than one argument?

We (Russ and I) never ported it back to Plan9 because there's a subtle layout bug when columns have different height fonts for the tag and the body. I works well enough for us, but isn't at the quality it should be. Paul On Mon Oct 27 2014 at 3:57:01 PM Rob Pike robp...@gmail.com wrote:

Re: [9fans] [acme] Edit command -- More than one argument?

What do you mean by resizing flicker? I've never seen it with the multi-line tags. And we do resize the tag by hand - the scroll wheel opens and shuts it, in addition to adding/removing the trailing newline. On Mon Oct 27 2014 at 8:44:57 PM erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Mon

Re: [9fans] GSoC proposal: Alternative window system

Multiple displays and display dpi awareness in acme would make my day! Multi-display looks easy - we just need handling for adding a new row, which is already handily abstracted. Fitt's law aware mouse movement would be nice too, particularly on large screens. You could slightly trap the mouse

[9fans] Acme, dump, and $HOME

Can anyone explain to me the rationale of Dump dropping acme.dump in $HOME instead of $PWD? I know I can pass it a different filename, but it seems odd to put it in $HOME instead of where acme is called from. My use case is this: I'm working on two projects, and so want to maintain two long-term

Re: [9fans] Acme, dump, and $HOME

was started. I just don't understand why acme.dump should go to $home by default, when everything else in the editor is relative to the window directory. On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 8:49 AM, dexen deVries dexen.devr...@gmail.comwrote: On Monday 13 of January 2014 08:42:22 Paul Lalonde wrote: Can anyone

Re: [9fans] Acme, dump, and $HOME

: On 13 January 2014 16:42, Paul Lalonde paul.a.lalo...@gmail.com wrote: Can anyone explain to me the rationale of Dump dropping acme.dump in $HOME instead of $PWD? alternatively, if started with acme -l dumpfile, why not write it back to the same file?

Re: [9fans] Acme, dump, and $HOME

But when i turn on my terminal it runs acme -l $home/acme.dump automatically. And before i turn it off i just press dump. If I need to preserve a state for longer i can do Dump otherfile. For me this seems the saner behaviour. tl;dr I'm against your patch, sorry 2014/1/13 Paul Lalonde paul.a.lalo

Re: [9fans] Acme, dump, and $HOME

It certainly addresses my use case. I'll give it a spin when I next have 5 minutes to mess with it. Paul On Mon, Jan 13, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote: On 13 January 2014 18:30, Paul Lalonde paul.a.lalo...@gmail.com wrote: That seems even more magical

[9fans] Multi-monitor rio in plan9port in Ubuntu

I got fed up with Ubuntu's crappy UI, so I went back to basics, but the default new window manager stuff gave me a small, mirrored desktop across both my monitors. To save someone else the grief, here's a quick how-to: 1) Add a new window manager for rio. Your paths will vary. ~ $ cat

Re: [9fans] c++

PS2 development is generally too expensive for the cost model of education games, sadly. On Thu, Nov 22, 2012 at 9:39 AM, lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: A friend is developing such web/tablet based lessons for similar kids in India (India has as big a problem of poor ed. as the whole of

Re: [9fans] Acme: how to search only in selection

The real question is how to handle the next selection; tracking two dots seems wrong. On Thu, Aug 9, 2012 at 8:28 AM, Matthew Veety mve...@gmail.com wrote: On Aug 9, 2012 10:00 AM, dexen deVries dexen.devr...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday 09 of August 2012 15:46:47 Rudolf Sykora wrote: (...)

Re: [9fans] apparently nice summary of small linux pcs

More to the point, you don't want any OS on an 8 bit machine. A small driver library, maybe. But really, 8 bit machines today are just for fun little micro-control projects and you really don't want an OS in the way. The first thing I did to make an arduino useful was reclaim the timer thread

Re: [9fans] tcl, 9p

C is a low level language, not intermediate. In the second decade of the 21st century is it too much to ask for garbage collection and type safety? Hmm. I'm probably just feeding a troll. Paul On Mon, Oct 10, 2011 at 2:05 AM, Balwinder S Dheeman bsd.sans...@anu.homelinux.net wrote: On

Re: [9fans] acme multi-line tags (or maybe, efficient message stores)

Not as far as I know. The grief comes with mixed fonts in the same column. As the tag grows it breaks the column layout height. You wind up with the choice of pushing the windows below around (ugly and unusable) or winding up with fractional lines in each window whose font is not the tag

Re: [9fans] acme multi-line tags (or maybe, efficient message stores)

I often keep an Edit I'm refining in a separate tag line for easy selection. But the real use was in keeping commands that need chorded parameters, so my debugger sessions, for example, keep a line of list print break etc, so I can chord in the parameter easily. That way I don't have to construct

Re: [9fans] Announcing Inferno for Android phones

A pretty good week for 9fans! Grats all involved! Paul On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 3:32 PM, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.comwrote: this is cool! On Fri, Sep 16, 2011 at 4:23 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: We would like to announce the availability of Inferno for Android

Re: [9fans] this is kind of sad

Works for me. On Fri, Jun 24, 2011 at 11:19 AM, dexen deVries dexen.devr...@gmail.comwrote: On Friday 24 June 2011 16:12:05 Charles Forsyth wrote: i put a copy on u9fs.googlecode.com thanks from one of the ``been meaning to try this Plan 9 thing'' guys ;-) any idea what's up with bell

Re: [9fans] Mousing is faster than typing but users do not believe it

It sounds easy. But few folks on this list are HCI researchers (I'll tell you it's odd going from GPU design to HCI - but it's fun!). None of the micro-tasks (mouse vs keyboard) that folks are going on about on this list is meaningful to measure. We know keyboards are good for some things, and

Re: [9fans] Additional compilers under 9vx.OSX

Fortunately you can build a case-insensitive file system on a mac, within a file. Disk Utility lets you make a filesystem in a file, and you can click case-sensitive. Big win, and though you have to size the FS ahead, it's also nice to have my 9vx install all in one disk file for moving to other

Re: [9fans] Additional compilers under 9vx.OSX

1s/case-insensitive/case-sensitive/ On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 8:45 AM, Paul Lalonde paul.a.lalo...@gmail.comwrote: Fortunately you can build a case-insensitive file system on a mac, within a file. Disk Utility lets you make a filesystem in a file, and you can click case-sensitive. Big win

Re: [9fans] Go Plan 9

So I can write go programs that take advantage of private namespaces and other Plan9 innovations. Paul On Tue, Apr 5, 2011 at 12:06 PM, Yaroslav yari...@gmail.com wrote: 2011/4/5 Lucio De Re lu...@proxima.alt.za: As for not running Go on 9vx, that's a pain, I have such a nice 9vx

Re: [9fans] self modifying code in intel vga bios?

Today, of course, we'd call this JIT, and shove it in a new page, and think ourselves clever. The last time I poked at one of these self-modifying bits they were really just jitting a blit loop, in place. Drops register pressure a little bit, which has always been a bit of an issue in x86 land.

Re: [9fans] Trap in 5c compiling rc?

/arm/9plug On Wed, Dec 8, 2010 at 5:06 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@labs.coraid.comwrote: Now, how do I tell it to use the USB stick as a root filesystem? I'm guessing I'll want to have two partitions, one to hold the image and another as a native P4 fs of some sort (if only to get

Re: [9fans] Trap in 5c compiling rc?

sources! It's really impressive how much can fall out of your head when you haven't actually run plan9 for a couple of years. I have a build, and tonight I should be able to actually try it! Paul On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 5:37 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.netwrote: On Tue Dec 7

Re: [9fans] Trap in 5c compiling rc?

I have a successful boot off my USB stick onto the Guru. Now, how do I tell it to use the USB stick as a root filesystem? I'm guessing I'll want to have two partitions, one to hold the image and another as a native P4 fs of some sort (if only to get case-sensitive filenames). How do I specify

Re: [9fans] Trap in 5c compiling rc?

Oh dear, I spend too much time with Perforce (P4) these days. I mean an Plan9 fs, of course. Paul On Tue, Dec 7, 2010 at 8:26 PM, Paul Lalonde paul.a.lalo...@gmail.comwrote: I have a successful boot off my USB stick onto the Guru. Now, how do I tell it to use the USB stick as a root

Re: [9fans] Trap in 5c compiling rc?

I got it clean, finally. I had mis-mapped some pieces while updating my x86 userland, without which 5c crapped out a lot. Next question: How do I build my plug kernel? Among my early build problems: mk: no recipe to make 'devtwsi.5' in directory /sys/src/9/kw ../boot/libboot.a5 doesn't

Re: [9fans] Trap in 5c compiling rc?

quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Mon Dec 6 20:14:54 EST 2010, rminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Dec 6, 2010 at 5:08 PM, Paul Lalonde paul.a.lalo...@gmail.com wrote: I got it clean, finally. I had mis-mapped some pieces while updating my x86 userland, without which 5c crapped out a lot

Re: [9fans] Trap in 5c compiling rc?

I've rebuilt my x86 userspace, nuked, rebuilt objtype=arm, and still in rc, bang. I'm running on 9vx, so I can imagine some random interaction there (I can't justify the power bills to keep a plan9 386 box going these days given the frequency I use it). An rc would let me move all this over to my

Re: [9fans] Trap in 5c compiling rc?

Erik sorted me out - and our wee conversation made me remember that in the presence of 'bind -b /sysfromiso /' it's important not to get the arguments backwards. Mea maxima culpa, apologies for the noise. Paul On Sun, Dec 5, 2010 at 8:16 AM, Paul Lalonde paul.a.lalo...@gmail.comwrote: I've

[9fans] Trap in 5c compiling rc?

I'm trying to build an arm userspace, and I'm dying building rc; 5c is dying at /sys/src/cmd/5c/peep.c:1338, with joinsplit() having been called with r=0x0. I'm running from an old distro, but with today's sysfromiso by ron. Any (non-null) pointers? Paul -- I'm migrating my email.

Re: [9fans] IWP9-2010 tentative schedule

I'll be a bit late - the floats don't land on Lake Union until 10:00am at this time of year, so I should just miss Geoff's talk :-( I do wish my guruplug had arrived already. Paul On Sat, Oct 9, 2010 at 9:08 PM, Jeff Sickel j...@corpus-callosum.com wrote: On Oct 9, 2010, at 10:26 PM, ron

[9fans] 9vx and replica/pull on OS X

I want to build a kw kernel, which caused me to want to update my 9vx installation. Have my file system on a case-sensitive remote mounted drive. I'm getting essentially every file tagged as locally modified; will not update. When a file is good, I get a warning that I can't set the uid; I can

[9fans] Buying a Guru Plug. Do I want/need the JTAG module too?

I'd like to run it as a household control server, notwithstanding various teething pains/devices. If I fail too badly, I can probably coerce Linux to do what I need. Paul -- I'm migrating my email. plalo...@telus.net will soon be disconnected. Please use paul.a.lalo...@gmail.com from now on.

Re: [9fans] other mouse buttons in drawterm on a one mouse button mac laptop under OS X

It's easy to change and recompile. Paul On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 8:10 AM, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: Yes but drawterm doesn't agree: command (apple key) means right click and option means middle click. Oh, I see. I'm not terribly inclined to change that. Drawterm has used those keys

Re: [9fans] other mouse buttons in drawterm on a one mouse button mac laptop under OS X

You could intercept /dev/mouse on the cpu server and swap the buttons there before starting rio. That's per-user. Paul On Tue, Sep 7, 2010 at 1:14 PM, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: It's easy to change and recompile. I should have stated to reconfigure function keys without recompiling the

Re: [9fans] iwp9.org (Re: BibTex collections of all 4 proceedings)

Both Vancouver and Seattle are trivially doable for me. I'd offer our Victoria offices, but we're moving into unknown space at the end of August. Paul On 2010-05-07, at 6:09 AM, Eric Van Hensbergen wrote: On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:45 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 6,

Re: [9fans] Mac multi-touch mice and p9p acme anyone?

. This with the new multitouch mice? -Eric Sent from my iPhone On Nov 26, 2009, at 1:58 AM, Paul Lalonde plalo...@telus.net wrote: I wound up with one of these today, and I just had to mess with it enough to get chording working through the multi-touch interfaces. I have no idea how

[9fans] Mac multi-touch mice and p9p acme anyone?

I wound up with one of these today, and I just had to mess with it enough to get chording working through the multi-touch interfaces. I have no idea how it behaves on a trackpad, but the top 20% of my magic mouse is now 3 separate buttons with reasonable tapping and chording behaviour. I can

Re: [9fans] MIPS LSB compiler

I'd be very interested in an ELF based cross-compilation to plan9. I have this many-core IA part that I would desperately love to boot a nicer OS on than we currently have (memory footprint, scheduling, vm architecture, syscall performance, remote exposure), but the principal application

Re: [9fans] critique of sockets API

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Even more than transistors are so cheap that doing on-the-fly translation to a RISC instruction set in hardware is an essentially invisible cost. Plus you get to change the target microarchitecture to exploit new thinking in processor design

Re: [9fans] request for more GSoC project suggestions

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 A modern cfront is nearly impossible. Templates make it hella-hard. And generics might actually be C++'s best feature, at least in performance-code land. Paul On Mar 25, 2009, at 1:12 PM, Devon H. O'Dell wrote: 2009/3/25 Paul Lalonde

Re: [9fans] request for more GSoC project suggestions

, 2009, at 1:40 PM, James Tomaschke wrote: Paul Lalonde wrote: I'd like to see a 3D graphics protocol. Then I could run the host on some linux or window or mac box to do the display, and run the graphics app in Plan9, or inferno, or ... A port of vmgl to Plan9 would be nice for this. http

Re: [9fans] request for more GSoC project suggestions

A cfront-ish approach to templates leads to hellish duplication of template-generated code in each module, and thence to even worse code bloat. Of course, my understanding of what's possible in a cfront translation is perhaps (probably) naive. Paul On 25-Mar-09, at 2:12 PM, Charles

Re: [9fans] GSOC: Drawterm for the iPhone

iJuke ;-) On 25-Mar-09, at 8:24 PM, Tom Lieber wrote: On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Eric Van Hensbergen eri...@gmail.com wrote: I think rio is probably not useful, but a purely text based environtment isn't interesting either... The only thing I could see anyone using this for is if

Re: [9fans] Acme huge bar

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 When I did the expanding tags I wound up choosing to leave them black since they aren't part of any frame. Not totally satisfactory, but the layout logic was baroque enough that disturbing it further didn't make much sense. I know that a few

Re: [9fans] i7

erik quanstrom wrote: it seems that core i7's work just dandy with plan 9, even resample seems just a tad pokey. :-) If only the motherboard my two were plugged into wasn't a the bleeding edge of design :-( Paul

Re: [9fans] Acme scrolling tags (was Re: graphics scaling)

That differs from my experience - I usually run 3 columns on a 30 monitor, with tags open to two lines for most of my active windows; the second line typically has an Edit command lying around because you can't effectively 2-1 chord Edits. The extra length is also useful for dealing with

Re: [9fans] Acme scrolling tags (was Re: graphics scaling)

The P9P version has this too: acme -$ But that still doesn't address ease of Edit commands or tags full of build config strings and other crap. Yes, I've been relying more on tags than guide files of late. Paul On 23-Dec-08, at 10:54 AM, erik quanstrom wrote: (Really, it was easier to

Re: [9fans] graphics scaling

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Have the scrolling tags been ported into the mainline p9 yet? That's the main reason I still spend most of my time in P9P and SAC. Paul (who hasn't yet managed to get his hands on an Intel PCIe graphics adapter of any sort - frustr. It's as

Re: [9fans] image/memimage speed

Again, you can stream a whole frame buffer reasonably fast - that should be nearly full-rate; it should be full rate if you pre-fetch with sufficient advance notice (500-1000 clocks), or DMA. But random access reads *have* to be slow: you get a stall while the system goes to PCIe for each

Re: [9fans] image/memimage speed

I'll try to track down an actual PCIe card rather than a simulator and run down some numbers on Monday. Paul On 5-Dec-08, at 12:11 PM, ron minnich wrote: On Fri, Dec 5, 2008 at 11:30 AM, Paul Lalonde [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: But random access patterns suck at being speculatively cached

Re: [9fans] image/memimage speed

Minor gripe as a graphics person - I loathe frames per second as a performance measure. Because of the inverse you can't really compare the numbers. Consider the difference in improvement between 1fps and 2fps compared to 29fps and 30fps. Both improve by 1fps, but they represent

Re: [9fans] mmap

Roman V. Shaposhnik wrote: Personally, my experience of trying to use mmap() as a useful abstraction for the CPU's MMU was the last straw. It can't do even that reliably and in a portable fashion. Not to digress, but I was even more surprised to learn that there's not a single API on UNIX that

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 and multicores/parallelism/concurrency?

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Jul 17, 2008, at 12:29 PM, Bakul Shah wrote: My reasoning was that more and more cores can be (and will be) put on a die but a corresponding increase in off chip memory bandwidth will not be possible so at some point memory bottleneck will

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 and multicores/parallelism/concurrency?

On 15-Jul-08, at 1:01 AM, Bakul Shah wrote: I suspect a lot of this complexity will end up being dropped when you don't have to worry about efficiently using the last N% of cpu cycles. Would that I weren't working on a multi-core graphics part... That N% is what the game is all about.

Re: [9fans] A shot in the dark

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 FWIW, we used a similar technique just last summer debugging some PS3 code. The dev system is kind enough to include 4 front panel lights and a very lightweight API for setting them. We wound up printing out the program counter during a