on it. Naturally,
quite a few bugs have been found and sorted out, but I can't make any
guarantees about stability or prime-time readiness.
The snapshot kernel device is available in contrib/blstuart/snap, and
the file system is in contrib/blstuart/θfs. It's also included in
9atom, and we're working on getting
- Taking a snapshot is an O(1) operation
most interestingly, that is a property of #ℙ, which is not directly
tied to θfs. so you could, with arrangements, snapshot any other
file system.
That's correct. #ℙ doesn't depend on θfs at all. θfs can be used
without #ℙ, but it does have some
I do! I'm particularly interested in filesystems in general and would
love to work on fossil/venti, perhaps improve fossilcons or fix known
bugs?
Funny you should mention file systems. As it turns out, I've been
working on a new file system for Plan 9 recently. It's too early to
make any
The farthest I have gotten is getting smtp to issue 220 Ready to Start
TLS, and then it exits, that's running smtp with the -d flag.
/sys/log/smtp reveals a bunch of bad thumbprint x509 lines. I have tried
adding the sha1 hash to /sys/lib/tls/mail, but this has had no effect.
For outgoing,
http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardYun?from=Main.ArduinoYUN
similar to the routerboard port (MIPS).
I thought Arduino was entirely AVR based. But I haven't been
following any developments.
Mostly they are. But the Yún includes an Atheros module with WiFi,
Ethernet, USB, and a MIPS
On Dec 26, 2013, at 0:29, blstu...@bellsouth.net wrote:
http://arduino.cc/en/Main/ArduinoBoardYun?from=Main.ArduinoYUN
similar to the routerboard port (MIPS).
I thought Arduino was entirely AVR based. But I haven't been
following any developments.
Mostly they are. But the Yún
I also wasn't
aware that qemu could work with out the support from the proc. Is that
version dependent also, or only on a Microsquish OS version of qemu?
It's been a while since I did much with it, but a few years I used
Plan 9 on qemu on the Mac quite a lot, even to the point of setting up
so, if any of you have X11 running, and could do this:
xrandr --verbose
From an HP laptop running FreeBSD:
Screen 0: minimum 320 x 200, current 1280 x 800, maximum 1280 x 1280
VGA disconnected (normal left inverted right x axis y axis)
Identifier: 0x41
Timestamp: 81746
so, if any of you have X11 running, and could do this:
xrandr --verbose
From an HP laptop running FreeBSD:
Oops. Sorry about that all.
BLS
You'll also need the backported p9p factotum in:
contrib/quanstro/root/sys/src/cmd/auth/factotum
How big is the dependency on p9p factotum? Is it just syntactic or
is there some needed functionality in p9p factotum which the sources
version doesn't provide?
Quite big. Actually, ssh is
contrib/quanstro/root/sys/src/cmd/auth/factotum
Nfactotum misses proto=mschap which is used by cifs(4) for doing NTLM.
Isn't mschap implemented in
contrib/quanstro/root/sys/src/cmd/auth/factotum/chap.c?
There's a Proto structure for it at the bottom of the file.
BLS
Would it be hard to add cooked mode (-C)?
never mind: it's easy to simulate by binding /dev/nul over /dev/consctl.
The other thing I've noticed is that when I'm connecting
from Plan 9 to a UNIX system, running ssh in vt is
handy. It makes all the stuff like readline and color
ls happy, plus
Thanks to the support of Coraid, I am pleased to announce
that a native SSHv2 implementation is now available in
contrib. It's available in:
contrib/blstuart/ssh
You'll also need the backported p9p factotum in:
contrib/quanstro/root/sys/src/cmd/auth/factotum
Although not strictly necessary
I've been using virtualbox on linux and mac os for a long time.
The only issues I have found have been with the ps/2 mouse emulation
on mac os. You can try the image we have for our students here:
http://lsub.org/plan9alv.tgz
You might give the latest version for mac os a try. I've noticed
On 05/18/2011 05:12 AM, Jacob Todd wrote:
Writing/porting web stuff to plan 9 will be hard. Writing something that
accesses plan 9 from the web will be less hard.
The KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) acronym has been popular in business
for decades, but its message has never been more
How useful a research could be which is not backed by a business idea?
That's kind of the point I was getting at. Asking how research
is useful isn't asking the most telling question. Research isn't
always about utility; it's about intellectual contribution. Of
course, it's great when
Starting Goal: a modern, standards compliant web engine library for Plan 9
As others have pointed out that's pretty hard to define, but in
the current web world, you can cover a surprisingly large fraction
of sites if you have good JavaScript and CSS support. Running
Java in the browser isn't
him. An even more Plan9-like way of doing it is to net-boot a Plan9
terminal from your cpu/auth/fs machine. If you want to boot your
main box that way, you can without installing anything on it. From
within Linux, you can do the same thing in virtualbox. In fact, I
have a virtualbox
On Dec 31, 2010, at 8:15 AM, Lluís Batlle i Rossell wrote:
On Fri, Dec 31, 2010 at 01:28:17PM +, Richard Miller wrote:
Although I'd like to try a theremin one day...
Lydia Kavina http://www.lydiakavina.com gives occasional tutorials in
Oxford,
maybe also somewhere closer to you.
Weird i tried similar settings a few days ago and it didnt work. Can you
post the vdi and hdd settings too?
I had some success yesterday, but more so with Erik's 9atom
ISO than the one from the labs. It handled the VirtualBox
disk emulation much better. Anyway, I ended up with a
very similar
I have ported simh 3.8-1 to plan9.
It currently has the following issues
Cool! So my Christmas day has already invovled booting
up RT-11 and PDP-1 LISP.
Thanks for doing the port.
BLS
On Sat Nov 13 02:34:14 EST 2010, don.bai...@gmail.com wrote:
So now bin/ls is going to weigh 200 megabytes on SomeDistro thanks to
a packaging of localities, terminal colours, etc? Sounds great.
i can't wait. in 200-odd megabytes you can have
(a) a plan 9 distribution, or
(b) linux
to elaborate: group permission is not implemented by any
kernel file servers in the standard distribution.
And yet, it honors others permissions? I can set the r
bit on others, and the cat then works...
Right. Aside from the persistent data file servers, like kfs,
kenfs, and fossil (as Erik
Right. Aside from the persistent data file servers, like kfs,
kenfs, and fossil (as Erik mentioned), there's not much that
treats groups in the expected way.
So if you'll continue to pardon my asking, who exactly tells a given
file server what constitutes a user or a group? In this
Chicken-and-egg, just like you said. Of course, that lands us in the current
situation, where you can't tweak things such that 100% of all administration
activities can be performed remotely via drawterm... for some stuff like
setting
up disks, one still has to use the local physical
servers out in our datacenter, which is a physically seperate
building down the street. While we have physical access if we
need it, generally speaking everything can be done remotely,
including rebooting a system, because the HMC manages it and
provides virtual serial consoles.
Real world
I guess I'm trying to imagine how specifically you could pipeline, not the
general ways in which pipelining will fail with 9P.
Well as it turns out, I got inspired by the discussions of
streaming and implemented one approach in Inferno on the
plane on the way back home. Unfortunately, my
both of them yield a
regexp: malformed `[]'
error.
I forgot to mention and I had an alternative solution from the
beginning /stat[abc]?([ ;]|-)/
I'm just wondering the reason the original version failed.
As I recall, if you're going to include a hyphen in a character
class, it has to be
I think you have found a real bug.
I created a new window containing
x x+ x- xy
and I executed Edit ,x/x[ +\-]/d
and sure enough it doesn't delete x-.
Interesting. Is that in p9p acme? I just tried it in 9vx
and it did delete everything except the xy.
BLS
It infers that what Corey wants is to bring GNU and Linux into
Plan 9.
Which isn't true.
I must admit to jumping to that conclusion too easily. I guess it's
because the most common discussions here start either with I've
been beating my head against a wall; has anyone seen this or can
tell
I've been avoiding getting into this discussion, largely because
I fail to understand just why it seems to be an issue at all,
much less a big deal. But once again, against my better judgement
I allow my big mouth to open.
On my part I guess I'm assuming complexity will come, whether we like
It's this kind of intellectual ugliness that makes the
teacher in me hang my head in shame. How could
we be managing to produce a whole generation of
programmers who actually buy into that stuff? And
it's not as if it's a fad that's getting better. If anything
it's getting worse. Somehow we've
On Thu, 25 Mar 2010 14:31:20 -0300, blstu...@bellsouth.net wrote:
It's this kind of intellectual ugliness that makes the
teacher in me hang my head in shame. How could
we be managing to produce a whole generation of
programmers who actually buy into that stuff? And
...
I assume you
in similar vein, there's this handful guide on how to make your life
really hard in 11 easy steps:
http://www.pixelbeat.org/docs/unix_file_replacement.html
make sure you check out the final copy.c linked at the bottom of the page
It's a sign of the apocalypse. The configuration of the
I should mention that another person here tried qemu recently and
commented that it was dog slow as well.
Something changed in qemu I think and it's affecting plan 9. That was
a very old qemu image and it was peppy in the old days.
I wonder if it's a 0.11 thing or maybe a Linux thing. I've
http://www.engadget.com/2010/03/15/qi-hardwares-tiny-hackable-ben-nanonote-now-shipping/
Okay, Maht. You just cost me $125 :) I just couldn't resist.
Of course, it remains to be seen whether this will be another
project that gets pushed onto the stack or we will see something
come of it. What
Shame it doesn't have a cell phone radio built in, or Ron and I might
have just what we needed for the 9phone.
That would be cool. Unfortunately, the cell phone people seem a lot
less friendly about releasing the information necessary to program
their chips.
At 32 MB of RAM, it's basically
I was wondering how you'd network one of those things:
http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_in_Nanonote
I thought that was terribly cute. The other option is talking
PPP over the USB. You'd be tethered, but you could at least
talk.
Off-topic-ish, that 320x240 screen is probably the biggest
As I get it, it does not feauture a USB host controller, but acts
like an USB device that you can connect to your PC. Maybe it
will work anyhow...
I was wondering how you'd network one of those things:
http://en.qi-hardware.com/wiki/Wi-Fi_in_Nanonote
I thought that was terribly cute.
What flavor MIPS is it? 64 bit (I doubt it)? Is it a version that the
compilers will like?
Good point. I do know it's 32-bit, but so far that's all I know.
Honestly, I had noticed it was MIPS and didn't really think
any further about it. The good news is that both big-endian
and little-endian
* the whole loader sits in the kernel (maybe w/ some additional
helper deamon in userland), but userland can pass parameters
like search pathes, etc via env.
IMHO having the dynamic loader in kernel-land (in contrary to ELF
on GNU) not just removes the need for lots of syscalls, but
* blstu...@bellsouth.net blstu...@bellsouth.net wrote:
If you're interested in how to do dynamic loading in a clean
and elegant way, take a look at Inferno.
hmm, isnt this an interpreter-based system ?
The application language is Limbo which is compiled to
Dis machine code. Dis is run
We recompile the relevant executables. The speed of kencc makes this
much less painful than you might expect. It also happens very rarely
on plan9 - I cannot remember the last time we had a big pull.
Okay, but then (as an admin) you have to know which apps have
to be recompiled. For a small
What I'd appreciate, from the user's point of view, would be some kind
of history mechanism tied to the up/down keys in rio/win (where I
interact with a shell), up arrow bringing up the last command e.g.,
and a normal movement behaviour when editing a 'text' file (no direct
interaction with
You can't prove harmlessness in people, hence the joyful collective
outcry of all men are potential rapists. It's the halting problem of
human interaction
Brian! Your computer thinks your face is harmful!
I never thought of it that way, but I like that analogy. At
least no one has written
You can sumbim your own patches, or, alternatively if people
want to send me their face files and a list of email addresses
that they should be associated with them I will agregate them
all into a single patch.
This is the one I've been using for myself for a while. It's
kind of old, but I
Back to the Evoluents for me.
I'm back to using trackballs :-) . And I guess I either have to fix this
problem with the trackpad myself or wait for a fix or use an external
pointing device.
Has anyone tried the Contour Perfit? I've been hesitant to
drop $100+ on it without knowing how it
Brian! Your computer thinks your face is harmful!
another one for cat-v
On Wed, Jan 6, 2010 at 4:40 PM, blstu...@bellsouth.net wrote:
from postmas...@vx32:
The following attachment had content that we can't
prove to be harmless. To avoid possible automatic
execution, we changed the
Thanks to everyone who attended and to Erik Quanstrom and Coraid for a rockin'
IWP9.
I second that! It was a great meeting.
BLS
Does anyone agree with me that it needs fixing?
I don't. I also think that even if it were a problem the usage is far
too ingrained to be fixable.
Nor do I. Having the no-argument case be filter behavior
(stdin/stdout) is the most elegant, consistent, and predictable
of the options I've
I don't think there's any inherent reason why 9vx must be unstable,
but it certainly has a couple bugs. I haven't had the time to track
them down and fix them, but I'm always happy to point in the
right direction if you can reproduce one. There have been a
few reports about it dying with
So am I out of my mind or shouldn't I be able to mount a Plan 9
file system on Inferno. I thought that was one of the effects of
making 9p2000 and styx the same. But even setting aside the
authentication issue, if I do an aux/listen1 on the Plan 9 side,
and then try to do a mount -A on the
The following sequence works for me. I get your bad fversion ...
error without `-r root' to skip the root negotiation:
On plan 9:
% aux/listen1 tcp!*!styx /bin/exportfs -r /usr/glenda
On inferno:
% mount -A tcp!192.168.1.3! /n/plan9
Excellent; that's the trick. On
I've had less success using it for real work, at least on MacOS
10.5 and 10.6 - for example running a venti server eventually
results in something like
9vx panic: sigsegv on cpu7
I've seen similar on FreeBSD, though I don't think I've see it
on Linux. I use 9vx pretty much all the time as
number of schemes 4
http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Contrib_index/
One that's not in the contrib tree is s9fes (Scheme 9 From
Empty Space).
BLS
with vista is not one of them. It may well be in the long term that
the best way to remove 9load is to make Plan 9 grub-bootable.
The -H5 option to 8l will generate an ELF image. I've
used that to boot Inferno using pxelinux/mboot. I'm
pretty sure a Plan9 image built using -H5 would be
caveats. They're listed on:
https://umdrive.memphis.edu/blstuart/htdocs/inf_nat_inst.html
BTW, I hope to have another version available soon that
includes pretty good USB support and some limited graphics.
BLS
Once, it used to be the standard configuration to have one machine as a
CPU/auth server, one machine as a file server, and one machine as a
terminal, for a total of three systems, if one had the available hardware.
The power in that model comes primarily when you have
a number of terminals
It also seems that most of organizations I know have that same kind
of permanency in place even at HR level. If you leave the company
and then get rehired you feel like you've never left -- you badge id
and sorts of HR assigned credentials are simply enabled, not created
anew. Don't know
Incidentially I may use this at home to protect my servers console
against my 2 year old who rather likes keyboards, though this is
a different type of security.
In that situation, the most important security measure it
to place the power switch at an altitude beyond the little
one's reach. I
On Jul 1, 2009, at 12:46, Charles Forsyth fors...@terzarima.net wrote:
I think Tog's conclusions (the single set of studies put forth
whenever this thing
comes up) are poorly made ...
it turns out that there is rather older work that supports
much the same conclusion, which i probably
perhaps i should have taken piano, but i find the
That's an interesting observation. As it turns out I
do play, and it's certainly possible that it colors my
taste in UIs.
contortions kbd-based editors such as vi or emacs
require to be quite irritating indeed. fumbling for
I don't disagree
Arguing about mouse vs keyboard misses the point.
I'm very happy with acme's use of the mouse, but
acme's power comes from the rest of its design.
I think that's why I find acme's use of the pointer to
be more paletable than other apps. The one thing
that no UI study ever measures is how much
Nils Holm's Scheme interpreter @ http://t3x.org/s9fes has
been available for a few months now. It runs on plan9 though
not on inferno.
For Inferno, look at:
http://code.google.com/p/inferno-scheme
It's best considered embryonic, and has been that way
for a little while as I've been
Broadcom / ServerWorks BCM5715 Broadcom dual gigabit, pci bridge
04:00.0 0200: 14e4:16ac (rev 12)
Broadcom Corporation
05:00.0 0604: 1166:0103 (rev c3)
Broadcom / ServerWorks BCM5715 Broadcom dual gigabit, pci bridge
Broadcom GigE - these are a problem, as I understand it
What do people think about erik's timeframe versus potentially
mid-January / early February / early March 2010?
My 1¢ worth (the economy has devalued it from 2¢)
is that the time doesn't matter so much for me, since
it would probably be on my dime. But Atlanta is a
much more feasable trip for
On Mon, Apr 20, 2009 at 6:42 PM, Balwinder S Dheeman
bdhee...@gmail.comwrote:
I don't who and why one referred you to try 9vx
Maybe because it's faster, and easy to install. It only took a few minutes
to download it, unpack it, and start using it. It's an easy way to get
acquainted
i'm speculating on the design of the auth system. i wasn't
there so i could be wrong. but in order to have a terminal
that many people could log into would require either
(a) killing off the original factotum on logout and changing
eve back to bootes or something. and beware the 1001
I've been posting too much for this kind of list. Sorry.
Not at all. As long as the questions are genuine and
you're learning from it, your questions are welcome
as far as I'm concerned. The real flamage comes when
a) someone tries to teach their grandmother to suck
eggs or b) a person seems
It was nice to see this message. Thank you!
You're welcome. When you've been part of a community
for quite a while, it's easy to forget what it's like being
new to that community. And I've certainly had my
share of questions over the years. Anyway, good luck
with your experiments and
The seesion would not be suspended, it would continue to operate as
your agent and identity and, typically, accept mail on your behalf,
perform background operations such as pay your accounts and in
general represent you to the web to the extent that security (or lack
thereof, for many
people's ideas about what's complicated or hard don't change
as quickly as computing power and storage has increased. i
think there's currently a failure of imagination, at least on
my part. there must be problems that aren't considered
because they were hard.
as an old example, i think
Actually, I have long had a feeling that there is a convergence of
VNC, Drawterm, Inferno and the many virtualising tools (VMware, Xen,
Lguest, etc.), but it's one of these intuition things that I cannot
turn into anything concrete.
This brings to mind something that's been rolling around
in
Oops: sent too early... Here's the rest
It would be nice if someone could point me to some step-by-step
instructions for Plan 9 dummies,
I don't think such a thing currently exists, but if you keep
notes as you go along, you could provide the welcome service
of writing one...
But there are
The definition of a terminal has changed. In Unix, the graphical
In the broader sense of terminal, I don't disagree. I was
being somewhat clumsy in talking about terminals in
the Plan 9 sense of the processing power local to my
fingers.
A terminal is not a no-processing capabilities (a dumb
if you look closely enough, this kind of breaks down. numa
machines are pretty popular these days (opteron, intel qpi-based
processors). it's possible with a modest loss of performance to
share memory across processors and not worry about it.
Way back in the dim times when hypercubes roamed
Absolutly, but part of what has changed over the past 20
years is that the rate at which this local processing power
has grown has been faster than rate at which the processing
power of the rack-mount box in the machine room has
grown (large clusters not withstanding, that is). So the
gap
There's aquarela which is a CIFS server, but I'm not sure
about client. I seem to remember it being worked on at
one point, but I'm not sure if it was ever completed.
cifs(1) (cifs client) is alive and well at contrib/install steve/cifs
I happily stand corrected.
BLS
I often tell my students that every cycle used by overhead
(kernel, UI, etc) is a cycle taken away from doing the work
of applications. I'd much rather have my DNA sequencing
application finish in 25 days instead of 30 than to have
the system look pretty during those 30 days.
i didn't
What struck me when first looking at Xen, long after I had decided
that there was real merit in VMware, was that it allowed migration as
well as checkpoint/restarting of guest OS images with the smallest
...
The way I see it, we would progress from conventional utilities strung
together
Absolutly, but part of what has changed over the past 20
years is that the rate at which this local processing power
has grown has been faster than rate at which the processing
power of the rack-mount box in the machine room has
grown (large clusters not withstanding, that is). So the
gap
I'd like to add to Brian Stuart's comments the point that previous
specialization of various boxes is mostly disappearing. At some point in
near future all boxes may contain identical or very similar powerful
hardware--even probably all integrated into one black box. So cheap that
The
Principles of Operating Systems: Design and Applications
by Brian Stuart
( http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/ASIN/1418837695 )
I've only just started reading it, so can't really comment on how good
it is yet. Looks promising so far though.
I recently bought this book and have read most
i think it's a *great* idea, but it doesn't give you the same things
nat does and isn't useful in the same cases. but i'd love to be able
to import my plan9 /net from my OS X box.
It seems a pretty universal opinion that were other OSs
capable of importing a Plan9 /net, their _functioning_
I've got a laptop that I (for shits and giggles) decided to put Plan 9
on. Lo and behold, it worked fine (Compal EL80, Core 2 Duo, 2GB RAM,
nVidia video).
So, I'm running at 1280x1024x32 right now in VESA, which is
reasonable, but I'd like to run at my maximum native resolution, which
is
You will need to sign up for a google maps key, though this is free and no
significant demographics are required.
I find it useful, YMMV
/n/sources/contrib/steve/rc/gmap
It appears I'm failing to put the right things on top of the other
right things. All I ever get back is a black image
did you stick your key in /lib/gmapkey? does /lib/sky/here have a
sensible value?
Yep. In fact I tried a couple different domains to get a key and tried
them both there, and I looked up my lat/long to put in /lib/sky/here.
How do they determine where you're coming from to see if your
key
Pick up the new code, it reads the key from /lib/gmapkey
and gets the longditude and latitude the correct way round
(as several people have told me.
That got it. Thanks much. This looks like it'll be
fun.
BLS
so I immediately go into rc with `!rc' at the install
rio window, and upon trying `mount /dev/sdC0/data',
I again get the same I/O read error message, so
it is unable to mount the data.
And yet, the CD data is readable from a mount
within Linux.
How is the CD drive installed? /dev/sdC0
Just one line in plan9.ini and I was rocking.
I'll have to break out my amber-screen vt420 and give it a try.
Probably not terribly useful w/o a mouse, though! :)
But it's not bad as the console of a file server. My vt220
is on an RS232 switch so it can be the console of a couple
of
I am having trouble getting Plan 9 to recognize my ethernet card in my
embarrassingly old Dell laptop. The card is a Farallon Enet, which to the
best of my knowledge would be a 3C589 type for the purposes of plan9.ini.
I have tried some variations in plan9.ini, such as ether0=type=3C589 or
I used a December 2007 installation CD, so I'll download the latest version
and try again.
The particular patch I mentioned made it into the source tree in
the fall, I think. So any relatively recent one should include it.
But I should point out that it only made it possible for the driver
to
I have a bit of free space at the beginning of my hard drive so I wanted
to reinstall a native plan9 there, however installing from the iso (dled
on 23/12/2008) fails for me. I get some I/O errors at the fmtfossil stage,
such as those:
sdE0: i/o error d0 @0
sdE0: LLBA 312,581,808 sectors
I suppose this happens because of some changes with the sata driver since
I was able to install with the iso something like one year ago. I guess I
I would doubt that it's got to do with the sata driver, since
the actual access to the disk controller is handled by the
underlying UNIX OS.
I use CWEB (D. Knuth and Levy's) intensively and it is indeed
invaluable.
It doesn't magically improve code (my first attempts have just shown
how poor my programming was: it's a magnifying glass, and one just saw
with it bug's blinking eyes with bright smiles).
Back when I used CWEB on a
On Fri, Dec 26, 2008 at 01:20:17PM -0500, erik quanstrom wrote:
appropriately, this being a plan 9 list and all, i find code
written from the bottom up easier to read.
Depending on the task (on the aim of the software), one happens to split
from top to bottom, and to review and amend from
building a pyramid, starting at the top is one of those things
that just doesn't scale.
But if you figure out how, it's probably worth a Nobel.
BLS
using fossil for your root, instead of #Z, will obviously cost you the
benefits of #Z - namely, the pass-through transparency. if your
primary interest is for replica/*, though, you might consider the
direction i've been headed: root from fossil, but import $home or /usr
from #Z.
That's
On Mon Dec 1 12:10:13 EST 2008, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
P.S. Speaking of Inferno -- I have always wanted to run it
natively on these puppies:
http://www.sunspotworld.com/
That's a seriously cool idea. I just discovered we
have a dev kit here at work. I can't say for sure
Perhaps my choice of wording wasn't exactly correct. Make it does not
function in this capacity unless modified. But there's a missed point: add
in packet analysis and you're doing NAT. The boasted transparency of Plan 9
is a product of bringing most (or really all?) functions, including
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