Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread Corey
Multiple responses following, so that I'm not accused of spamming the list. On Monday 29 March 2010 19:02:23 Iruata Souza wrote: On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Corey co...@bitworthy.net wrote: snip No one's willing to spearhead a General Purpose 9 experiment, and no one's interested in

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread Steve Simon
No one's willing to spearhead a General Purpose 9 experiment, and no one's interested in collaborating on and contributing to such a project? If you want [general purpose], you know where to get it. seems to be the period that ends all such discussion. I wouldn't quite agree, the

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread hugo rivera
I agree with Steve. I like the community approach to this matter: if plan9 doesn't have what you need, do it yourself; if you do something that might be useful for others share it and see what happens. Being a newbie myself I find very hard to write my own utilities, but that's a good way to learn

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread Gabriel Diaz Lopez de la Llave
hello This way (dot-it-your-self-way) we will only have one-man projects. . . slds. gabi El 30/03/2010, a las 12:19, hugo rivera escribió: I agree with Steve. I like the community approach to this matter: if plan9 doesn't have what you need, do it yourself; if you do something that might

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread hugo rivera
I don't agree. I think that more than one person can be involved in any given project. 2010/3/30 Gabriel Diaz Lopez de la Llave gd...@rejaa.com: hello This way (dot-it-your-self-way) we will only have one-man projects. . . slds. gabi -- Hugo

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread Patrick Kelly
On Mar 30, 2010, at 6:33 AM, Gabriel Diaz Lopez de la Llave wrote: hello This way (dot-it-your-self-way) we will only have one-man projects. . . Do it yourself refers to the community doing anything they need. Most things are so trivial that one or two people can do it. That doesn't

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread tlaronde
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 01:34:12PM +0100, Steve Simon wrote: This way (dot-it-your-self-way) we will only have one-man projects. . . True, if anyone feels that a project is too big for them then by all means put a shout out on the list and see if anyone there wants to help. Everything

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread Patrick Kelly
On one side, you have code (result) and consistency; on the other side, you have _inhumanity_ since you have increasing of the entropy that is disorder: order is unnatural, and is the mark of human activity. Open source seems very natural in this sense: the bazaar... Until you factor in one

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread David Leimbach
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:07 AM, Albert Skye mistl...@yahoo.co.uk wrote: order is unnatural The Origins of Order: Self-Organization and Selection in Evolution by Stuart A. Kauffman http://www.amazon.com/Origins-Order-Self-Organization-Selection-Evolution/dp/0195079515 Why have facts

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread tlaronde
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:07:11AM -0700, Albert Skye wrote: order is unnatural The Origins of Order: Self-Organization and Selection in Evolution by Stuart A. Kauffman http://www.amazon.com/Origins-Order-Self-Organization-Selection-Evolution/dp/0195079515 order is unnatural for things

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread Nick LaForge
I am utterly depressed that this pedestrian crap can so easily get a rise out of several 9fans after all these times.

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread Jack Johnson
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Patrick Kelly kameo76...@gmail.com wrote: Read up on why Plan 9 was written. We've been succeeding for 20 years so far. I think this is an interesting comment in light of the evolution thread. Most people (incorrectly) equate evolution with progress. Whether or

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread Jack Johnson
On Tue, Mar 30, 2010 at 10:23 AM, Jack Johnson knapj...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Patrick Kelly kameo76...@gmail.com wrote: around with relatively few upgrades for the past 420 billion years or s/billion/million/ -Jack

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-30 Thread Patrick Kelly
On Mar 30, 2010, at 14:23, Jack Johnson knapj...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 6:17 PM, Patrick Kelly kameo76...@gmail.com wrote: Read up on why Plan 9 was written. We've been succeeding for 20 years so far. I think this is an interesting comment in light of the evolution

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-29 Thread Corey
On Monday 29 March 2010 14:09:32 erik quanstrom wrote: Day to day computer work will not generally be done on a Plan9 terminal until Glenda finally overcomes her profoundly crippling case of automysophobia. snip unless you're going to do something about this, you're just trolling.

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-29 Thread Corey
On Monday 29 March 2010 17:24:08 erik quanstrom wrote: In any given social environment, communicating dissatisfaction of the status quo is often the logical first step towards choices (a) and/or (b) - due to the fact that going off on one's own to work alone in a vacuum on a major

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-29 Thread Iruata Souza
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 10:21 PM, Corey co...@bitworthy.net wrote: On Monday 29 March 2010 17:24:08 erik quanstrom wrote: In any given social environment, communicating dissatisfaction of the status quo is often the logical first step towards choices (a) and/or (b) - due to the fact that

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-29 Thread Jacob Todd
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 06:21:54PM -0700, Corey wrote: Are the core Plan 9 design concepts in fact ineffective or unsuitable for building a general purpose computing environment? I find that very hard to believe - but there's over 15 years of evidence which seems to imply just that. There's

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-29 Thread Iruata Souza
On Mon, Mar 29, 2010 at 9:20 PM, Corey co...@bitworthy.net wrote: Is it that the core Plan 9 design concepts[1] are in fact inappropriate or uninteresting for anything beyond that which Plan 9 currently provides? [1] /sys/doc

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-29 Thread Patrick Kelly
Where's the beef? is certainly a fair and reasonable thing to ask. I got hungry and ate it. What I'm wondering, however, is _what's_ the beef? Beef comes from the cow. As you said, these arguments have indeed been going on for some time - so, why only talk and no action? It's weird.

Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)

2010-03-29 Thread Rahul Murmuria
Well, most of Plan 9's ideas have been trickling down into general purpose operating systems for years! I don't see what others here claiming failure of Plan 9 are referring to. In order to bring new technology to mass consumption, you don't bring the masses to drive the formula 1 race car... you