Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
OpenGL (within its scope) covers several platforms at once, and anyway has to be handled somehow. Early in Inferno's history, I looked at the then version OpenGL but since at the time it kept drawing state hidden (similar to PostScript), and largely global, and the designers hadn't discovered data structures yet, it wasn't clear whether one could do a pleasant interface to it. To judge from (say) the current Python interface, probably not. Still putrid, but there's apparently not a lot you can do. (OpenVG by contrast seemed much better done, but that's 2D.) On 19 April 2012 05:15, Jeff Sickel j...@corpus-callosum.com wrote: better to go native drawing libraries with Cocoa or OpenGL.
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
I've intended to see if I can glean any wisdom from the Android interface to OpenGL but have had neither the time nor motivation. Anyone here know if it's a model to learn from? -joe On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 5:10 PM, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.comwrote: OpenGL (within its scope) covers several platforms at once, and anyway has to be handled somehow. Early in Inferno's history, I looked at the then version OpenGL but since at the time it kept drawing state hidden (similar to PostScript), and largely global, and the designers hadn't discovered data structures yet, it wasn't clear whether one could do a pleasant interface to it. To judge from (say) the current Python interface, probably not. Still putrid, but there's apparently not a lot you can do. (OpenVG by contrast seemed much better done, but that's 2D.) On 19 April 2012 05:15, Jeff Sickel j...@corpus-callosum.com wrote: better to go native drawing libraries with Cocoa or OpenGL.
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
On 19 April 2012 09:16, Joseph Stewart joseph.stew...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone here know if it's a model to learn from? Another glance, and I'd say it's similar to the others (except for the onXYZ style of programming). Because GL is fairly big and complicated, everyone copies the original interface conventions precisely. That way you can look it up in the manual. Unfortunately, it means you get FORTRAN in every language. (The original target might have been C, but it looks like FORTRAN in any language. There are older graphics interfaces in C that have data structures, so it's not impossible.) Thus, you get // Enabled the vertices buffer for writing and to be used during // rendering. gl.glFrontFace(GL10.GL_CCW); // OpenGL docs // Enable face culling. gl.glEnable(GL10.GL_CULL_FACE); // OpenGL docs // What faces to remove with the face culling. gl.glCullFace(GL10.GL_BACK); // OpenGL docs // Enabled the vertices buffer for writing and to be used during // rendering. gl.glEnableClientState(GL10.GL_VERTEX_ARRAY);// OpenGL docs. // Specifies the location and data format of an array of vertex // coordinates to use when rendering. gl.glVertexPointer(3, GL10.GL_FLOAT, 0, // OpenGL docs vertexBuffer); gl.glDrawElements(GL10.GL_TRIANGLES, indices.length,// OpenGL docs GL10.GL_UNSIGNED_SHORT, indexBuffer); // Disable the vertices buffer. gl.glDisableClientState(GL10.GL_VERTEX_ARRAY); // OpenGL docs // Disable face culling. gl.glDisable(GL10.GL_CULL_FACE); // OpenGL docs Note the state, and the stylish gl.gl Stutter and suffer! But wait!, I hear you cry. State, callbacks, no data structures to speak of, ... why don't we look at how they handle this stuff in ... Haskell! (Monads, and a learning curve, though you can then build up something that's not entirely graphics machine code.)
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
On Apr 19, 2012, at 1:46 AM, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote: But wait!, I hear you cry. State, callbacks, no data structures to speak of, ... why don't we look at how they handle this stuff in ... Haskell! (Monads, and a learning curve, though you can then build up something that's not entirely graphics machine code.) It is a big state machine because you have to give it a lot of state the 3D h/w does do a lot of complicated things! SGI had open inventor, a scene graph level C++ API but it didn't really go anywhere it seems. But I think openGL 3.0+ and openGL ES 2.0 with their programmable pipeline can map well to a fileserver, where you write your data to the openGL server and the GPU does all the heavy lifting. This can also work reasonably well where the 3D h/w is a few tens of microseconds away from your cpu. I have a partial paper design but long way to go. A prototype is needed to see how well this will perform. An openInventor/coin3D/ivy (in scheme) kind of GUI library can be build on top of that.
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
I wasn't too worried about getting a file system interface to it. I'd supposed that would be tedious (from the size of the language) but straightforward, similar in principle to draw(2). Draw's programming interface can, however, present Images, Screens, Points, Rectangles, Screens, Fonts, and so on as values that can be created and manipulated like any other. Obviously there's still an underlying state in the image currently drawn in an Image, or on a Display. By contrast, OpenGL has things like this: None of the matrix manipulation commands have an explicit parameter to control which matrix they affect. Instead, OpenGL maintains a current matrix mode that determines which matrix type the previously mentioned matrix manipulation commands actually affects and each matrix type has its own a stack of matrices. (That's followed in a document I'm looking at by all the ways you can get into trouble with this, but how much faster it all is!) And, that state is program global. Still, that's what there is!
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
On Apr 18, 2012, at 2:05 PM, arn...@skeeve.com wrote: having to write the same set of GUI interfaces three times (X11, windows, Mac OS). I'd like to put in a good word for Plan 9, in case it gets forgotten. And, yes, Qt does not support Plan 9, I guess we'll need to find some compromise, if at all possible. ++L Good point. Unfortunately, until Plan 9 grows a C++ compiler, Qt isn't an option for it. If/when that does happen, it would be a worthwhile thing to have there (In My Humble Opinion, of course :-). We would be glad to work further on such a C++ port with anybody who can handle the Qt end of things so anybody interested in exploring such an endeavor should discuss with us. - Greg
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
We would be glad to work further on such a C++ port with anybody who can handle the Qt end of things so anybody interested in exploring such an endeavor should discuss with us. I have a friend who is totally sold on LLVM, but I note that it is itself written in C++, so bootstrapping would be difficult (I think I still have a running version of GCC 3.0, . As for me, I guess I was waiting for the opportunity to point out that the Go Nuts are discussing options for a visual interface for Go which is where I would place my bets. Still, the point that the infrastructure could be based on an existing code base is not to be frowned upon. I suspect that in this particular instance we're either going to get very strong leadership producing a robust, but easily criticised outcome, or a weak community that produces a wishy-washy compromise that pleases no one, but is just good enough and will become the next bloated standard. I'm happy to take part in the former project. ++L
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
On Thu, 19 Apr 2012 11:32:03 BST Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote: I wasn't too worried about getting a file system interface to it. I'd supposed that would be tedious (from the size of the language) but straightforward, similar in principle to draw(2). A filesystem interface seems to simplify things quite a bit. Draw's programming interface can, however, present Images, Screens, Points, Rectangles, Screens, Fonts, and so on as values that can be created and manipulated like any other. This can be built on top of the above. A /dev/draw shim wouldn't be too hard either. In a sense openGL is at the machine assembly language level while screens, rectangles, fonts etc are at a higher language level. Obviously there's still an underlying state in the image currently drawn in an Image, or on a Display. By contrast, OpenGL has things like this: None of the matrix manipulation commands have an explicit parameter to control which matrix they affect. Instead, OpenGL maintains a current matrix mode that determines which matrix type the previously mentioned matrix manipulation commands actually affects and each matrix type has its own a stack of matrices. (That's followed in a document I'm looking at by all the ways you can get into trouble with this, but how much faster it all is!) And, that state is program global. Still, that's what there is! Indeed but GL ES 2 is simpler by virtue of leaving out fixed pipeline functions etc. We may as well make the best use of it when a $35 computer can provide a high performance openGL implementation!
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
On Apr 19, 2012, at 12:11 PM, Lucio De Re lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: We would be glad to work further on such a C++ port with anybody who can handle the Qt end of things so anybody interested in exploring such an endeavor should discuss with us. I have a friend who is totally sold on LLVM, but I note that it is itself written in C++, so bootstrapping would be difficult (I think I still have a running version of GCC 3.0, Speaking with their developers a few years ago they did not think it was a good idea/reasonably feasible. I may be biased, but still sure some general flavor of Comeau for Plan 9 could be a near term and not expensive endeavor (though it depends upon ones definition of inexpensive too I guess). And Qt definitely has its place in the world. - Greg
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
I may be biased, but still sure some general flavor of Comeau for Plan 9 could be a near term and not expensive endeavor (though it depends upon ones definition of inexpensive too I guess). And Qt definitely has its place in the world. I've bought the Go faith lock, stock and barrel, to mix a couple of metaphors. And I like Go specifically because its core belief is that it is high time conventions were tossed out the window. I am actually quite frustrated because I feel that evolution in the IT field is taking a path of least resistance (I have occasionally pressed Russ Cox to relent on the policy of minimal change in the Go toolchain, I seldom, if ever, won on principle) and wish I had words like a hammer to promote a much more aggressive approach to do what is right rather than what is expedient. I'd like to mention, for example, the idea expressed here that a $35 device will give you 3D capabilities. Sure, but the same $35 could give you considerably more and accepting what's on offer is, in my opinion, wimping out. Maybe I can immodestly (and probably untruthfully) say that _I_ could do better than that and that so could many others in this forum and we are all compelled to sacrifice our possible contributions to a better world by those in the industry that know how to manipulate our gratification sensors. I could list many examples (and so no doubt could each one of us here) of benefits whose real cost is much higher than the amount of dollars being spent on them. In some respects I am fortunate: I live in an old Apartheid-built small town in South Africa and the digital divide is so obvious here, yet there is no real cause for it. But I don't have the skill to express how infuriating it all is... What I'm looking for is to replace obsolescence with efficiency: 3000 pupils in my immediate vicinity could enjoy much better access to the Internet (_any_ access to the Internet) if I could deploy KA9Q over MSDOS as the primary software on 8088 based computers. I know this because back in 1992 I had precisely that hardware serving single dial-up connections from a small community of BBSers. These children don't need pr0n or video clips, Facebook or twitter, they need text access, e-mail, the much maligned and damaged e-news, just as I found them useful back in the very early 1990s. But we are stealing that from them by moving the entry bar ever higher so that our obsolete computers and our mobile phones with dead batteries and incompatible SIM cards, VGA monitors, memory simms and all manners of perfectly useful IT equipment cannot conceivably be deployed to improve their standard of living and their ability to catch up. What I'm looking for is the community that is savvy enough to embrace new technology and caring enough to propagate their gains to those who do not have the same access to that technology instead of making sure of the opposite. I don't believe that there is a conflict, in fact, I think that's the only option open to us, I'm just waving its flag a little ahead of the tsunami. And that tsunami includes Go, Plan 9, possibly Android, vx32 and Raspberry Pie. I pray that I'm not just a crazy visionary. Anyway, sorry to rant like this, I don't even know if it made me feel any better to do it, I do hope that some of you will see things from my perspective and perhaps my feelings will resonate with your own. Lucio.
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
On Thu, Apr 19, 2012 at 1:56 PM, Lucio De Re lu...@proxima.alt.za wrote: I may be biased, but still sure some general flavor of Comeau for Plan 9 could be a near term and not expensive endeavor (though it depends upon ones definition of inexpensive too I guess). And Qt definitely has its place in the world. I've bought the Go faith lock, stock and barrel, to mix a couple of metaphors. And I like Go specifically because its core belief is that it is high time conventions were tossed out the window. I am actually quite frustrated because I feel that evolution in the IT field is taking a path of least resistance (I have occasionally pressed Russ Cox to relent on the policy of minimal change in the Go toolchain, I seldom, if ever, won on principle) and wish I had words like a hammer to promote a much more aggressive approach to do what is right rather than what is expedient. IMO, there is nothing generally wrong with taking the path of least resistence, so long as open is open minded and also so long as it is not the only path being considered. I'd like to mention, for example, the idea expressed here that a $35 device will give you 3D capabilities. Sure, but the same $35 could give you considerably more and accepting what's on offer is, in my opinion, wimping out. Maybe I can immodestly (and probably untruthfully) say that _I_ could do better than that and that so could many others in this forum and we are all compelled to sacrifice our possible contributions to a better world by those in the industry that know how to manipulate our gratification sensors. I could list many examples (and so no doubt could each one of us here) of benefits whose real cost is much higher than the amount of dollars being spent on them. In some respects I am fortunate: I live in an old Apartheid-built small town in South Africa and the digital divide is so obvious here, yet there is no real cause for it. But I don't have the skill to express how infuriating it all is... What I'm looking for is to replace obsolescence with efficiency: 3000 pupils in my immediate vicinity could enjoy much better access to the Internet (_any_ access to the Internet) if I could deploy KA9Q over MSDOS as the primary software on 8088 based computers. I know this because back in 1992 I had precisely that hardware serving single dial-up connections from a small community of BBSers. These children don't need pr0n or video clips, Facebook or twitter, they need text access, e-mail, the much maligned and damaged e-news, just as I found them useful back in the very early 1990s. But we are stealing that from them by moving the entry bar ever higher so that our obsolete computers and our mobile phones with dead batteries and incompatible SIM cards, VGA monitors, memory simms and all manners of perfectly useful IT equipment cannot conceivably be deployed to improve their standard of living and their ability to catch up. Understood. What I'm looking for is the community that is savvy enough to embrace new technology and caring enough to propagate their gains to those who do not have the same access to that technology instead of making sure of the opposite. I don't believe that there is a conflict, in fact, I think that's the only option open to us, I'm just waving its flag a little ahead of the tsunami. And that tsunami includes Go, Plan 9, possibly Android, vx32 and Raspberry Pie. I pray that I'm not just a crazy visionary. Why not pray that you *are* a crazy visionary? :) Anyway, sorry to rant like this, I don't even know if it made me feel any better to do it, I do hope that some of you will see things from my perspective and perhaps my feelings will resonate with your own. Lucio. -- Greg Comeau / 4.3.10.1 with C++0xisms now in beta! Comeau C/C++ ONLINE == http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout World Class Compilers: Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90. Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
IMO, there is nothing generally wrong with taking the path of least resistence, so long as open is open minded and also so long as it is not the only path being considered. Except that by definition the path of least resistance is the only one of its type. You buy the reason, you paint yourself in the corner. I do grant that one may choose the path of least resistance for reasons other than the ostensible one, but I doubt that would be anything more than an accident. Can you see where my reasonaing takes me? ++L
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Why not pray that you *are* a crazy visionary? :) Too many years of logic, I'm a very rational materialist. But thank you for the suggestion, it gave me reason to smile. I do get plenty, in their lack of technical sophistication , my previously disadvantaged neighbours have a great deal of warmth and friendship to share. All the more reason for me to wish to help them. ++L
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Sure. I'm using it (and nix/plan9) to develop nix. Drop me a line off-list if you want help, but you should have everything you need in the web site, including the distribution of the system. On Apr 18, 2012, at 2:26 AM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: I was thinking along the lines of http://lsub.org/ls/octopus.html, myself, using a child of Inferno. Yeah, sound like interesting. Can I try this octopus on some of the PC still now? because I didn't do it, and have no idea of this. Whe I tried inferno, I god bad feeling of its gui (sorry all). Kenji
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
I should add that along the lines of Octopus meant that, as often happens, many of the details might change to account for experience and second thoughts, and for changed technology. Obvious candidates for the latter would be the increased availability of 3D, and vastly greater browser capabilities (for good or ill).
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
To make it explicit, the plan I have is to throw away o/live and o/mero and write something native for macos, linux, and perhaps ios such that the UI widgets are abstract and handled in a similar way they are handled in o/live. Only that they'd be native widgets with the look of the native system (that's not to say you can't implement an editable text-pannel with the mouse language we all love). Also, as Forsyth points out, the set of widgets has to be rethought, e.g., there should be a web widget. Then it's a matter of using those files from inferno, and remote systems. But, as I said, I don't have a single line of code yet for all of this. On Apr 18, 2012, at 2:27 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote: I should add that along the lines of Octopus meant that, as often happens, many of the details might change to account for experience and second thoughts, and for changed technology. Obvious candidates for the latter would be the increased availability of 3D, and vastly greater browser capabilities (for good or ill).
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Hi. To make it explicit, the plan I have is to throw away o/live and o/mero and write something native for macos, linux, and perhaps ios such that the UI widgets are abstract and handled in a similar way they are handled in o/live. Only that they'd be native widgets with the look of the native system (that's not to say you can't implement an editable text-pannel with the mouse language we all love). Qt already provides this (and much more). It means working in C++ (which is either a bug or a feature, depending upon how you look at it). I have used Qt and find it well designed and pleasant to use, but many 9fans might find such a thougt to be heretical. Also, as Forsyth points out, the set of widgets has to be rethought, e.g., there should be a web widget. I think Qt even has that. Then it's a matter of using those files from inferno, and remote systems. But, as I said, I don't have a single line of code yet for all of this. It sounds like interesting work! Good luck! Arnold
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Is it exported as files? I thought I knew Qt, but, if it provides a file interface, I missed that. On Apr 18, 2012, at 5:45 PM, arn...@skeeve.com wrote: Hi. To make it explicit, the plan I have is to throw away o/live and o/mero and write something native for macos, linux, and perhaps ios such that the UI widgets are abstract and handled in a similar way they are handled in o/live. Only that they'd be native widgets with the look of the native system (that's not to say you can't implement an editable text-pannel with the mouse language we all love). Qt already provides this (and much more). It means working in C++ (which is either a bug or a feature, depending upon how you look at it). I have used Qt and find it well designed and pleasant to use, but many 9fans might find such a thougt to be heretical. Also, as Forsyth points out, the set of widgets has to be rethought, e.g., there should be a web widget. I think Qt even has that. Then it's a matter of using those files from inferno, and remote systems. But, as I said, I don't have a single line of code yet for all of this. It sounds like interesting work! Good luck! Arnold
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Is it exported as files? I thought I knew Qt, but, if it provides a file interface, I missed that. No - but I would suggest building on Qt, to let it handle all the interface to the native graphics, and you provide the file service / translation over it. I think that would be challenging and interesting, and also save you an *enormous* amount of work in having to write the same set of GUI interfaces three times (X11, windows, Mac OS). In other words, the GUI part is already a laregly solved problem; build upon it instead of reinventing it. Just an idea. :-) Arnold
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
ah, if you said just to leverage a native kit, yes, that was the plan I had. but abstracting it. -- iphone kbd. excuse typos :) On Apr 18, 2012, at 6:09 PM, arn...@skeeve.com wrote: Is it exported as files? I thought I knew Qt, but, if it provides a file interface, I missed that. No - but I would suggest building on Qt, to let it handle all the interface to the native graphics, and you provide the file service / translation over it. I think that would be challenging and interesting, and also save you an *enormous* amount of work in having to write the same set of GUI interfaces three times (X11, windows, Mac OS). In other words, the GUI part is already a laregly solved problem; build upon it instead of reinventing it. Just an idea. :-) Arnold
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
i thought the easiest way to begin and be cross-platform would be to talk to a component running in a browser, similar in principle to a viewer in Octopus. a browser client will be needed anyway, and there is a browser on many things (often only a browser); thus your first step won't be your last, but it would cover a big distance. it might also make it quicker to experiment.
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
If you consider a set of abstract widgets, reasonable enough, you could map them to native implementations in -a browser -cocoa -gnome -add your one here. then, there could be a portable shared component speaking to those and gatewaying to your favorite protocol (9p, ix), and you could have a clean interface and reasonable bindings for it. cocoa was going to be my first move here, btw. didn't even start, though. -- using ipad keyboard. excuse any typos. On Apr 18, 2012, at 6:28 PM, Charles Forsyth charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote: i thought the easiest way to begin and be cross-platform would be to talk to a component running in a browser, similar in principle to a viewer in Octopus. a browser client will be needed anyway, and there is a browser on many things (often only a browser); thus your first step won't be your last, but it would cover a big distance. it might also make it quicker to experiment.
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
having to write the same set of GUI interfaces three times (X11, windows, Mac OS). I'd like to put in a good word for Plan 9, in case it gets forgotten. And, yes, Qt does not support Plan 9, I guess we'll need to find some compromise, if at all possible. ++L Good point. Unfortunately, until Plan 9 grows a C++ compiler, Qt isn't an option for it. If/when that does happen, it would be a worthwhile thing to have there (In My Humble Opinion, of course :-). Arnold
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Is this a joke? Has cocoa been ported to qt now?
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Qt's been ported to OSX. It's not really worth it though, better to go native drawing libraries with Cocoa or OpenGL. On Apr 18, 2012, at 8:37 PM, hiro wrote: Is this a joke? Has cocoa been ported to qt now?
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
I have in the todo yet another ui system to run on top of other systems. for terminals. -- iphone kbd. excuse typos :) On Apr 17, 2012, at 4:16 AM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: http://lsub.org/ls/nix.html yeah, now I can browse individual files now, When I tried two days ago, onlt directories can be browsed. Yes, I downloaded nix.tgz, and running it on my Ubuntu 11.10. I'm also running 9front here, of course, Plan 9 itself which I'm now writing this mail. I retired the univ this March, and have time now. I'm looking into codes of Plan 9 for my fun. I'm looking many to find out which is most interesting to make me most fun. Then, I have a question to all working for OS developement. Developping device drivers, such as 3D mode of nvidia card etc., is very difficult now, because there is no documents abailable. However, if we try to develope OS, we have to meet this difficulty. How you are trying to solve this? Kenji
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
I have in the todo yet another ui system to run on top of other systems. for terminals. We have now: (1) plan9port which is very clear where only plan9 like user interface would be developed. (2) inferno approach where proprietary language is neccessary, and resists top of another OS. (3) plan9 or nix or 9front, traditional style of OS developement In basic, I like the (3) approarch, but undocumented device problem. (1) is clear, however I feel something unfilled in my heart... Your intension is to develope two ways, one for server (nix), and one for terminal (like drawterm?) Kenji
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
On Apr 17, 2012, at 10:41 AM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: Your intension is to develope two ways, one for server (nix), and one for terminal (like drawterm?) Just to let you use your server(s) but assume that your terminals might be running macos, linux, ios, ... as their native systems. You could say it´s a drawterm revisited, but I won´t be just that :) Of course that´s just one way, and it does not strictly have to do with nix because nix is mostly a kernel for manycore systems.
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
(3) plan9 or nix or 9front, traditional style of OS developement In basic, I like the (3) approarch, but undocumented device problem. why not start with documented devices? looks like there is at least some docs for the omap's opengl. tristan -- All original matter is hereby placed immediately under the public domain.
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
I was thinking along the lines of http://lsub.org/ls/octopus.html, myself, using a child of Inferno.
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Funny, the plan I mentioned about the new window system was also to provide inferno to some modern UI, retaining a simple programmatic interface. Since I don't have even a single line of code for this, I didn't say. But I'm glad to see you did :) On Apr 17, 2012, at 8:56 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote: I was thinking along the lines of http://lsub.org/ls/octopus.html, myself, using a child of Inferno.
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
I was thinking along the lines of http://lsub.org/ls/octopus.html, myself, using a child of Inferno. Yeah, sound like interesting. Can I try this octopus on some of the PC still now? because I didn't do it, and have no idea of this. Whe I tried inferno, I god bad feeling of its gui (sorry all). Kenji
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:26 PM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: I was thinking along the lines of http://lsub.org/ls/octopus.html, myself, using a child of Inferno. Yeah, sound like interesting. Can I try this octopus on some of the PC still now? because I didn't do it, and have no idea of this. Whe I tried inferno, I god bad feeling of its gui (sorry all). Kenji I've run Octopus a little bit. It's got an interesting UI (Omero) and some of the features are pretty cool--I ended up being able to cite the Octopus paper in my master's thesis :) I had some trouble with running it at first (O/mero wouldn't start properly, unfortunately I can't recall the error, I think it's in the 9fans archive), but the setup scripts make it pretty simple to configure. John
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 9:07 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:26 PM, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp wrote: I was thinking along the lines of http://lsub.org/ls/octopus.html, myself, using a child of Inferno. Yeah, sound like interesting. Can I try this octopus on some of the PC still now? because I didn't do it, and have no idea of this. Whe I tried inferno, I god bad feeling of its gui (sorry all). Kenji I've run Octopus a little bit. It's got an interesting UI (Omero) and some of the features are pretty cool--I ended up being able to cite the Octopus paper in my master's thesis :) I had some trouble with running it at first (O/mero wouldn't start properly, unfortunately I can't recall the error, I think it's in the 9fans archive), but the setup scripts make it pretty simple to configure. John I guess the thing I was aiming for but forgot to type was, Yes, you can still try out Octopus, I set it up under Linux for fun about a month ago and it worked just fine
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Just to say that we moved the development mailing list. Sorry about that. it's nix at lsub.org and you can subscribe by a mail to nix-request at lsub.org, should you want to do so. Sorry again. On Apr 14, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Nemo wrote: Hi, just FYI, http://lsub.org/ls/nix.html has links and pointers for anyone to get the distribution and updates and/or send changes. hth
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
To clarify, Nix development will be continuing at both nix-...@googlegroups.com and http://code.google.com/p/nix-os as well. The project has forked. Noah On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 12:47 PM, Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org wrote: Just to say that we moved the development mailing list. Sorry about that. it's nix at lsub.org and you can subscribe by a mail to nix-request at lsub.org, should you want to do so. Sorry again. On Apr 14, 2012, at 11:02 PM, Nemo wrote: Hi, just FYI, http://lsub.org/ls/nix.html has links and pointers for anyone to get the distribution and updates and/or send changes. hth
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Greetings. On Mon, 16 Apr 2012 15:22:27 +0200 Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org wrote: Just to say that we moved the development mailing list. Sorry about that. it's nix at lsub.org and you can subscribe by a mail to nix-request at lsub.org, should you want to do so. Sorry again. Why is the nix homepage[0] looking strange today? Sincerely, Christoph Lohmann [0] http://i.imgur.com/BFuZb.png
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Noah Evans wrote: To clarify, Nix development will be continuing at both nix-...@googlegroups.com and http://code.google.com/p/nix-os as well. The project has forked. I don't understand what is going on. I though some people were very unsatisfied with the rietveld code review tool offered by Google Code, and Nemo created some new tools to be used instead of rietveld and mercurial. Of course Nemo's tools don't work with Google Code hosting so the project is moved at lsub, and by design the old mailing list, nix-...@googlegroups.com, is tied with the Google Code project, so a new mailing list has to be used instead. So what's this fork I'm hearing about? Someone wants to maintain the mercurial repository independent of the work done at lsub? Who? Why? If this is not the case, and I hope it isn't, destroy the Google Code project. Delete it, there's no point for this confusion. Personally I would have preferred that the mercurial repository would have remained the place where nix development would happen. I believe the problems people felt with rietveld could be solved by running a private instance of rietveld, instead of the generic one at Google, but whatever, I have no say in this. Just keep it in one place if there's no schism happening. So what's happening? John's message on nix-dev@ adds more to this confusion... -- Aram Hăvărneanu
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
There's a bit of drama going on right now. Here's what I wrote in a private mail to Steve Simon: I don't think anybody really liked hg from a technical standpoint. There were two reasons behind choosing it: 1. It would be trivial to get a 9vx nix distro up and running on Macs and Linux machines. 2. Codereview would ensure a transparent and open development process. Patch can be used for 1 to some extent (via the tarball) but it fails for 2. It makes some members of the community more equal than others. I think those of us sticking with hg are doing so more for social reasons than technical ones. Noah On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 7:23 PM, Aram Hăvărneanu ara...@mgk.ro wrote: Noah Evans wrote: To clarify, Nix development will be continuing at both nix-...@googlegroups.com and http://code.google.com/p/nix-os as well. The project has forked. I don't understand what is going on. I though some people were very unsatisfied with the rietveld code review tool offered by Google Code, and Nemo created some new tools to be used instead of rietveld and mercurial. Of course Nemo's tools don't work with Google Code hosting so the project is moved at lsub, and by design the old mailing list, nix-...@googlegroups.com, is tied with the Google Code project, so a new mailing list has to be used instead. So what's this fork I'm hearing about? Someone wants to maintain the mercurial repository independent of the work done at lsub? Who? Why? If this is not the case, and I hope it isn't, destroy the Google Code project. Delete it, there's no point for this confusion. Personally I would have preferred that the mercurial repository would have remained the place where nix development would happen. I believe the problems people felt with rietveld could be solved by running a private instance of rietveld, instead of the generic one at Google, but whatever, I have no say in this. Just keep it in one place if there's no schism happening. So what's happening? John's message on nix-dev@ adds more to this confusion... -- Aram Hăvărneanu
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 10:32 AM, Noah Evans noah.ev...@gmail.com wrote: I think those of us sticking with hg are doing so more for social reasons than technical ones. There are technical reasons as well. But, let it suffice to say that the tree is forked, and let it go at that. ron
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
So what's this fork I'm hearing about? http://9front.org/img/nofork.png -sl
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
2012/4/16 Noah Evans noah.ev...@gmail.com: There's a bit of drama going on right now. Here's what I wrote in a private mail to Steve Simon: I don't think anybody really liked hg from a technical standpoint. There were two reasons behind choosing it: I thoght the disagreement was because a stupid thing like coding style, glad to know it's something important like code management. You cannot be serious! Andrés
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
http://lsub.org/ls/nix.html yeah, now I can browse individual files now, When I tried two days ago, onlt directories can be browsed. Yes, I downloaded nix.tgz, and running it on my Ubuntu 11.10. I'm also running 9front here, of course, Plan 9 itself which I'm now writing this mail. I retired the univ this March, and have time now. I'm looking into codes of Plan 9 for my fun. I'm looking many to find out which is most interesting to make me most fun. Then, I have a question to all working for OS developement. Developping device drivers, such as 3D mode of nvidia card etc., is very difficult now, because there is no documents abailable. However, if we try to develope OS, we have to meet this difficulty. How you are trying to solve this? Kenji
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
I think a good start would be to establish port-projects for nearly anything from freedesktop.org, esp nouveau, in your case. Then, I have a question to all working for OS developement. Developping device drivers, such as 3D mode of nvidia card etc., is very difficult now, because there is no documents abailable. However, if we try to develope OS, we have to meet this difficulty. How you are trying to solve this?
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
I mean, a distributed file system on an actually distributed infrastructure providing a ray-tracing environment across multiple cpu to a 9fs /dev/draw has to have some potential use somewhere.. On Mon, Apr 16, 2012 at 11:53 PM, andy zerger zerger.a...@gmail.com wrote: I think a good start would be to establish port-projects for nearly anything from freedesktop.org, esp nouveau, in your case. Then, I have a question to all working for OS developement. Developping device drivers, such as 3D mode of nvidia card etc., is very difficult now, because there is no documents abailable. However, if we try to develope OS, we have to meet this difficulty. How you are trying to solve this?
Re: [9fans] nix at lsub
Awesome! On Saturday, April 14, 2012, Nemo wrote: Hi, just FYI, http://lsub.org/ls/nix.html has links and pointers for anyone to get the distribution and updates and/or send changes. hth
[9fans] nix at lsub
Hi, just FYI, http://lsub.org/ls/nix.html has links and pointers for anyone to get the distribution and updates and/or send changes. hth