i can sleep easier knowing that this technology has finally been
accepted by the general public:
It would appear their intent is that everyone sleep easier.
What worries me is the inventory reduction. This OS is
already very lean. I'm not sure what there is to reduce.
BLS
Once again, I find myself in the unhappy, but familiar,
place of being befuddled by security/authentication.
...
I know it's bad form to reply to your own question,
but I've gotten a bit farther. I realized that
/bin/service/tcp564 isn't the right way to go about
it. After a good slap on the
are you sure that both your auth server is running (look for results
from 'ps | grep keyfs') and that you're running the network listener
for it (service.auth/tcp567)? the connection refused says it's just
They are. As it turns out, it was a combination of operator
error and misleading
As long as I'm at it, though, I've got a question about listen.
It's filling a rather large logfile with lots of address in
use errors. As I look into things, it appears that I'm starting
listen both in /bin/cpurc and in /cfg/phantom/cpurc with the
latter specifying the -t option. That
I'm not sure about the usual way, but I've got the
listens in cpurc commented out and rely only on
entries in /cfg/whatever/cpustart.
Sounds like there are several ways people handle this.
For now at least, I'm going to go with my initial
instinct and leave the listens commented out in cpurc
is anyone already working on an factotum port to p9p or native Linux ?
P9P already has factotum.
BLS
-- Original message --
From: Eric Van Hensbergen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Brian L. Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
- v9fs defines P9_OEXCL to be 4, where
/sys/include/libc.h defines OEXCL to be 0x1000
Which version of v9fs
From: Brian L. Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: Eric Van Hensbergen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, May 8, 2008 at 12:56 PM, Brian L. Stuart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
- v9fs defines P9_OEXCL to be 4, where
/sys/include/libc.h defines OEXCL to be 0x1000
Which version of v9fs are you using
What compiler has been successfully used to build
p9p on Solaris? I've got a Solaris 9 install and
have tried the gcc 2.95 from the extras cd and Sun
Studio 11 and both have heartburn on the anonymous
unions and structs used in hfs.h in libdiskfs.
Thanks,
BLS
I'm sorry about that. There aren't supposed to be
anonymous unions and structs in the source code,
but they creep in. I've removed them from hfs.h.
Thanks, that got me farther. I was able to coerce it
to build the libraries and some applications. But,
surprise surprise, the threading
That's probably because the stack pointer points at
the wrong end of the stack. There are some magic
#defines you can put in that change the meaning of
...
Once you get the thread library working,
you will probably have to add support for
the Solaris FS to libdiskfs, unless it is the
same
So i realized I'm being foolish w.r.t my comments on i want my venti
in the 9vx directory
dd if=/dev/zero of=arenas bs=1048576 count=whatever
do for index and bloom
follow venti instructions.
voila. Venti. Rinse and repeat for fossil.
I haven't tried this yet, but is there any reason
I haven't tried this yet, but is there any reason you
couldn't put block special files for disk partitions
in the 9vx directory and put the arenas, etc there,
assuming of course all the permissions were set right?
I'll probably give it a try later tonight unless someone
yells Stop! You'll
Me again - Were you successfull in porting 9vx to OpenBSD?
If you need some testing help, contact me.
Speaking of that, does anyone have an idea where NetBSD
would fit into that? Of the bunch, that's the one I've
used most and have deployed in the most places. I
would think there would be
i'm interested in netbsd as a replacement for linux to serve 9p in
small ARM machines... i could use this
Why not Inferno? (Native or hosted)
uriel
thanks, i'd overlooked that option
I must say though that having to re-target to limbo is a minus. Is
there a 'plan9 c' to dis
How do you remove a file with corrupted meta data?
I was in 9vx and trying to recompile a kernel so
I could get a boot file with the local method
and it locked. After I killed 9vx and started it
up again, I can't mk because main.8 has corrupted
meta data. check in fossilcons reports it, but
Can you clri the file from fossilcons?
Unfortunately, that just reports the corrupted meta data too.
Interestingly, when I started it up this morning, the check
didn't report an error with it. But then after trying to
access it, check now reports:
error: could not unpack meta block:
Your best bet is probably to clri /active/sys/src/9/pc
and not look back.
clri /active/sys/src/9/pc
no_lb_mode = 1 ;
It is happy now.
It's more likely in a bad loop somewhere.
Is it repeatedly doing I/O during the 100% cpu?
I don't honestly know. Next time it happens, I'll
check and see.
It's more likely in a bad loop somewhere.
Is it repeatedly doing I/O during the 100% cpu?
It just locked again. Here's what I'm seeing. In
top, the first thread is using 100% of the CPU and
all the other threads are in the S state with no run
time. I don't see any indications either in
A little while back Russ suggested that someone might
want to look into making 9vx boot using a native
fossil/venti file system partition for root. For
anyone who's interested, as of this morning, that
is working. It's a little kludgy in places, but
mostly it's not too bad. When I've cleaned it
- boot/boot did bad things if the localroot
wasn't set, so when using boot/boot it's now .
What bad things did it do? The code is supposed
to cope gracefully with localroot == nil. I'd rather
fix the code that couldn't cope.
Ah, that means I need to remember. As you get older,
one of
- boot/boot did bad things if the localroot
wasn't set, so when using boot/boot it's now .
I think this is fixed in hg now. I found one place where
localroot was going to be used even though
it shouldn't.
Yes, that seems to work correctly now.
I'm beginning to think the lock-ups
The changes I mentioned earlier that allow 9vx to use
a local disk partition as root are ready for advised*
public consumption.
I've put everything up on the page:
http://umdrive.memphis.edu/blstuart/9vx/local9vx.html
Russ, if you want to consider these for inclusion in
the main tree, you can
Geoff has pointed out to me that I made a mistake in
typing the URL in my last message. It should be:
http://umdrive.memphis.edu/blstuart/htdocs/9vx/local9vx.html
I left the htdocs out of it the first time. Sorry
for any confusion.
BLS
I'm running a p9p venti server under Linux using several
(small by current standards) physical drives as my arena
pool. I got a 500GB external USB drive to use as a backup
of the arenas. But here's the gotcha. The number of blocks
per cylinder on the 500GB drive isn't the same as the other
- Is this going to cause any problems?
- Is there a better way to handle this?
could you use disk/prep instead of disk/fdisk?
prep should work in this situation as long as the
sector size on both drives is the same.
I don't think so. Unless it's been added recently,
p9p doesn't have
Also, if you do create a Plan 9 partition and
then prep it to make subpartitions (you'd have
to use 9vx, copying the binaries from sources),
then p9p venti can handle those partition names
too: /dev/sda1:arenas assuming /dev/sda1 is a
Plan 9 fdisk partition containing a subpartition
named
Is anyone currently successfully using a pcmcia
ethernet card? The last time I tried to do this,
I came to the conclusion that I would need to
sacrifice a chicken to get it to work, and I
ended up moving on to something else. But I'm
back to trying this. I've tried with several
versions of the
I am using a 3c589 and remember having the same symptoms at first. Jmk then
gave me the hint to try the other slot which amazingly did the trick. I then
didn't investigate that further. Incidentally, I'm also having a 572 lying
around I'm hoping to get running someday. As far as I remember,
There's is some code laying around for Broadcom 570x cards:
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/uriel/mirror/bc.tgz
I'll take a look at it. I seem to recall some discussion of
it and that it was in a pretty incomplete state. If I'm
remembering correctly, I'm thinking my chances might
I was using a 3c589 until a few years ago, then I moved to
a Netgear FA411 which is somwhat more mechanically robust -
I broke the plug on the 3com card :-(
It sounds like for a number of people it's working just
fine, and no one's put forward any real magic to make
it work, except for using
For those who have been paying attention, I found
the problem with the 3c589 last night. I needed
to add one line to ether589.c. In reset(), it sets
up some parts of an Ether structure. Then when
setting the media type, it calls etherelnk3reset()
indirectly through configASIC. But
I just downloaded 9vx and started up on my box.
On http://swtch.com/9vx/ it is mentioned that I can access my host's
network stack, but I cannot figure out how (or maybe I am not
understanding it right?). There is no network interface on /net. Can
someone point me some docs on how to
Okay, I've been taking a crack at the broadcom driver
that's been lying around. It's pretty old and used
the upamalloc call. But upamalloc is now gone and
I don't seem to be able to find the right way to
replace it. After looking at other drivers and at
the old upamalloc code on sourcesdump,
If you are working on the driver in my contrib dir, there are probably
newer versions of it somewhere, but don't ask me where you could find
them or who might have them, I don't even remember where I got that
one from.
I think that's the one I started with.
As far as I know some of the
This guy seems to blur the distinctions here. His discussion
He doesn't. If one reads the whole section part of which was quoted one
will see that he clearly states DFA and NFA are theoretically equivalent,
but then goes on to explain that DFA and NFA _implementations_ are not
Frankly, I was trying to see whether an external process reading
on somebody else's /proc/n/note would make any sense. One thing
that I wanted to implement was a note thief process that would
constantly read on a target's /proc/n/note and handle the notes
externally using a different kind of
Frankly, I was trying to see whether an external process reading
on somebody else's /proc/n/note would make any sense. One thing
that I wanted to implement was a note thief process that would
constantly read on a target's /proc/n/note and handle the notes
externally using a
Just booted Plan 9 on a 1024+16 node BG/P this week. .
I'll echo the congratulations.
Plan is to double it just a few times until we hit 65536 or so. Then
the fun begins: turning on all cores, so we get to
262144 cpus.
So how many cores is that for each member of the
Plan 9 community? :-)
i have offered to host in athens, ga. home of coraid,
the university of georgia, and almost never any snow.
we're just outside atlanta.
That would work better really well for me, as I'm
in Memphis--much easier to drive to Atlanta than
to the northeast, or Greece for that matter...
And since
This is why I've been trying to stay out of it.
So how to think about it? First, it's *not* NAT, because
there's no address translation going on.
I know. I understood this after the discussions of the past few days.
Yet you're still contending the following:
What I pointed out to
I'm just about ready to take the plunge (again) into Plan 9 for file
Welcome to the pool. The water's great.
started to get the impression that Inferno is perhaps a better way to
go for a newbie like me to the whole rio/acme/fossil Way. Is this
mistaken?
For rio/acme/fossil, you do want to
but /net is not a fs. '#I' the ip stack and '#l' the ethernet device
are usually bound in union on /net. ip subsumes its subprotocols and
arp. there is nothing preventing one from adding a new networking
protocol nor is there anything preventing one from adding a new type
of networking
I think a more precise way of saying it is that in 9p2000 and
the new styx, authentication has been moved outside the
protocol proper. styx==9p now; the names are used by
convention to imply the auth method, if any.
You're right. I stand corrected. For some reason I
had thought that the
P.S. Speaking of Inferno -- I have always wanted to run it
natively on these puppies:
http://www.sunspotworld.com/
That's a seriously cool idea. I just discovered we
have a dev kit here at work. I can't say for sure
whether the powers that be will approve of me spending
time working on
i've found it quite solid under Ubuntu 8.04,
and i'm running an old version of 9vx.
the last time i said that i'd had no trouble
it promptly blew up, but apart from that i haven't
had any trouble, once it starts up. i haven't used drawterm in ages,
except on windows.
The main issue I had
if the
version on my file server (which I keep more up to date)
has the muti-line tag behavior.
To be honest, the only time I really notice it is when I'm
trying to get to the Del tag in a directory listing in a
really narrow column.
BLS
On Dec 22, 2008, at 9:14 AM, Brian L. Stuart wrote
but after a few dozen seconds, it seems that 9vx froze (everything
stopped and I couldn't act on any of the windows nor open a new one).
I killed 9vx and retried (after having checked/fixed fossil from fscons),
and got the same behaviour.
...
Stuart, haven't you encountered this problem as
This isn't a *TeX complaints forum, but...
I'm spending more time trying to figure out
how to properly layout my page and get
the headers right, wa-wa (in LaTeX) --
instead of submitting my proof to the
damn journal.
How feasible is a solution to this mess?
Which journal is it? A
information can't leak in principle, but root scores are dangerous, which
is why open-access venti servers are problematic - if such a score
*does* happen to leak, then unconditional access to all your data has
also leaked.
If I understand correctly, this line of discussion
is primarily
I wrote a really simple program, forktest.c.
Next, I performed some experiments using this program. Fork is faster
for statically linked executables. It becomes slower as more libraries
are added to a dynamically linked executable.
What fascinates me here is that forktest doesn't even
use
P.S. My belief in it was actually reaffirmed by a raving
endorsement it got from an old LISP community. Those
guys are a bit like 9fans, if you know what I mean ;-)
You mean intelligent people who appreciate elegance? :)
Sorry. Couldn't resist.
BLS
For whatever mixture of factors, we ended up below the line
last year. This year more groups are expected to apply, and
Google has indicated they plan to support fewer groups and
fewer students this year as compared to last year. Each of
those trends seems likely to push us further below
9vx could replace drawterm in our environment, but i think
the following work is required. 9vx needs
- to be able to boot with no local files other than the executable,
(i.e. directly from a plan 9 fs)
Actually, I've been using it this way for a while. More
precisely, when I'm on my home
Did you use the plan 9 kencc to build
that inferno kernel? As I
understand, inferno's 8c doesn't have the H5 option...
I used the versions with Inferno, except that I borrowed
a couple files from Plan9's 8l to get the H5 support.
And in case anyone's curious, I booted it with grub a
little
Q: Will C continue to be important into the future?
(Dave Kirk, Nvidia)A: No, I think C will die like
Fortran has
let me explain the joke. In HPC circles, people have been
predicting
the death of fortran for 30 years. Fortran has continued to
grow and
thrive. The predictions continue,
KR is beautiful in this respect. In contrast, I
never managed to
bite in Stroustrup's description.
Ok, now I'll get provocative:
Then why do so many people have a problem understanding C?
Are you saying that there is a significant number of
people who understand C++ but not C? The reason
KR is beautiful in this respect. In
contrast, I
never managed to
bite in Stroustrup's description.
Ok, now I'll get provocative:
Then why do so many people have a problem
understanding C?
Are you saying that there is a significant number of
people who understand C++ but not C?
The scanner ist connect via 1G ethernet.
On the Touchscreen is an Option Scan to network.
The scanner scans direct to a cifs share (aquarella on
plan9).
No need for spezial software except a Cifs Server.
The scanner use smbclient.
That's neat. It makes sense too, using ethernet
to having cifs as an option. But when did it become
popular
to say that ftp should not be an option for
transferring a file?
The basic little flatbed on the website can scan to FTP.
I'm not sure
why the original poster chose to mention SMB and not FTP,
but it's an
option.
DOH!
Is there a way to pass args like fs, auth, sysname, nvram,
whatever to
/boot/boot in 9vx?
Yes and no. Out of the box, I'm pretty sure there isn't,
however, a while back as part of supporting native Plan9
partitions, I added some support for plan9.ini. I've got
some instructions and old
I guess the need for running configure first is gone
here.
Most definitely. [Editorial comment on configure elided]
I'm having trouble finding info on how to mount a thumb
drive.
If you are running usbd, it should detect when you insert
the drive and run usb/disk for it. This will make
There appears to be a disagreement between the
factotum man page and its actual behavior regarding
the -a option. In the man page, the wording:
-a supplies the address of the authentication server to
use. Without this option, it will attempt to find an
authentication server by
My impression is that mp
tables are getting worse and worse on new
hardware because vendors assume everyone is
running an acpi-aware OS.
it's not clear to me that's it's not just general low
quality,
Does that imply that we can expect the acpi tables to be
often
incorrect too?
--- On Thu, 5/6/10, Fernan Bolando fernanbola...@mailc.net wrote:
...which led me to believe I needed to do an
pre-authenticated
connection, but as Skip pointed might not be possible if
p9p is
capable of doing authentication.
I'm pretty sure it is as long as you have the auth
server
OK, somebody sent a hint that it
might make sense to take the -O3 out
of the make flags. Done.
Result: I can now get through this command:
hget -v http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/download/plan9.iso.bz2/tmp/iso.bz2
|[2]aux/statusbar plan9.iso
without an explosion.
This is weird. I
You also have to recompile vx
library.
I'm pretty sure I did. I did a gmake clean
followed by gmake 9vx/9vx in vx32/src. I'm
pretty sure I saw the libraries being compiled
as the compile commands flew by on the screen.
BLS
you may be right, but it seems too easy to blame gcc.
a better fit for the facts so far would seem to me that
9vx' locking is broken. the optimization may just
put
more pressure on broken locking.
I would certainly agree that the variability of the
crashes feels like a mutual exclusion
AWESOME! I will try to round up some friends who may
never have even seen
Plan 9 before as well.
Dave
If we're going to have newbies then maybe an evening
installfest would be fun.
ron
Good idea. It might also be worthwhile to introduce
that with an overview of the roles and
Thanks Erik, Sape, and
Skip. That was such a STUPID error, and I thank
you all for the extra eyes. I think it is time
for a break and a bowl of
tea...
relax. not stupid, subtle. it takes vigilance
to keep
sizeof, nelem, strlen, and the number of characters
straight.
This is part
2) I heard and read that the 'ms' troff macros are not
suitable for
longer documents (I want to write my PhD thesis), as
opposed
supposedly to the 'me' macros (which, however are not in
plan9, I
believe). Can anybody give me their opinion?
There should be some macro packages out there that
Oh, and most of the Plan 9 tools were first made
available to use outside the Plan 9 OS through
Russ Cox's plan9 in user space effort
(http://swtch.com/plan9port/). And there's the
virtualisation project vx32 that includes Plan 9
as an example. Not sure how they fit into a
holistic view.
Wasn't that what we found just last week regarding the
/dev/sd00/nvram thing? This is
on native Plan 9, (er, under VMware), not 9vx or anything
like that. The filesystem is
fossil, not kfs.
The file servers that maintain on-disk file systems
like kfs, fossil, kenfs, etc. all do use groups
I'll check the permissions on /tmp, and I bet you're right
there.
There's a good chance your /tmp issue is not permissions,
but a lack of /tmp being mounted. If your hostowner
doesn't have a lib/profile or its lib/profile doesn't
mount /tmp, then you won't be able to write anything
to it. As
to a single underlying (OS) platform, but failed (in a
suprisingly ugly
way) to cater for different target object formats, even
though there were
efforts to do so. In my opinion - and this is all I
hold against Plan
9 - by shoehorning various target object formats in the
linker/loader
as
I could run a headless box as a Plan9 auth/cpu, fs server.
Then, if I
want to this Plan9 server, is there a minimum Plan9 install
that I
could put on the spare partition that I have?
With this setup available, there are several ways
you can go. As a lot of people have suggested, you
can
I see! I mis-understood what you meant by Plan 9
terminal. I thought
that the Plan 9 Live CD gave you a choice of either
installing the
Plan 9 server or a Plan 9 client/terminal. I now see that
that there
are terminals available on various OSes to connect to a
Plan 9
server.
It has
Note, that neither plainTex nor troff handle
cross-references,
automatic equation numbering, footnote numbering, table of
contents,
etc. Nonetheless, mainly these listed features are often so
needed.
... What I am
trying to get
is something like eplain, but for troff. And I wanted to
Ron wrote:
andrey mirtchovski
mirtchov...@gmail.com
wrote:
This is great!
it is, isn't it? 6 seconds kernel compile, 15 seconds
turnaround time
when developing anything in the kernel (with PXE
boot). beat that,
modern operating systems :)
yes, I had to help config and build a
it should be as simple as 'make 9vx/9vx' issued in
vx32/src.
knowing the right make target was the stumbling block for
me too, a few months ago. I'm thinking it should be
documented. the ADVENTURE file gives wrong instructions (cd
src; make; make install)
That's what makes it an
I will rest on my laurels for the remaining of the week...
You've earned it. Congrats and thanks
BLS
The Wank E5 was AU$50.
Why is it that I can't quite summon up the courage to do a
google search for wank phone?
Because it will cost you $4.99 a minute?
I can then cd and explore the bell labs sources via
plan9port, so that
works just fine.
When I then try something like
cp -ar sources/plan9/sys/src/ape ape
I get an error stating:
unexpected open flags 050cp: can not open
”sources/plan9/sys/src/ape/9src/mkfile” for reading:
I'd suggest to complete native SSH2 implementation.
...
Let's not take this one completely off the table yet. SSHv2
would be extremely useful in helping open up communication
with external systems again.
As Erik said, there is a substantial effort here, probably
more than we could
After patching ndb/cs and running
nfactotum, I'm still having
some trouble getting the new ssh to successfully login to a
remote system:
term% ssh2 openbsd
The following key has been offered by the server:
ek=10001
...
Add this key? (yes, no, session) yes
ssh2: dial: handshake failed
Add this key? (yes, no, session) yes
ssh2: dial: handshake failed
One other thing that might be instructive is to look
at the logs. The client side logs will be in /sys/log/ssh
and the server's are often in something like /var/log.
They might have something that will help us pinpoint
where
The client side logs will be in
/sys/log/ssh
This was not created on my system.
My bad. He only uses syslog when he's in the role
of server, not client.
BLS
After rebuilding nfactotum and
starting it in a fresh window,
I'm able to login to all of the previously tried remote
hosts.
For the reference of future search engines I have a guess
on what you might have been seeing. If in the original
window, you had attempted to run ssh with an instance
It seems to be failing only when factotum is already
populated with
keys (I should point out: keys unrelated to the hosts I'm
trying to
login to with the new ssh):
term% sshtun -d
term% ssh2 openbsd
Verifying server signature
In rsa_verify for connection: 0
got error in factotum:
I just activated my Kindle. I mailed myself the PDF of
gawk.1 (of course).
At fit-to-screen it's too small, but rotated and increased
size it's better.
As an emergency place to keep the Plan 9 manuals, it sure
beats lugging
around all that paper. :-) I'll be experimenting some
more.
The question is rather: What killed the Plan 9 desktop?
1) Lack of modern GUI and GUI development kit
2) Lack of Object Oriented GUI configuration tools
3) Lack of a decent web0browser
4) Lack of a decent communication/messaging client
5) Lack
Americans aren't really creative with their city
names. They should learn from the welsh. :)
Yeah, we probably do need more where half of the
consonants are silent :) On the other hand, I
always thought Bucksnort, Tennessee was pretty
creative... Well, maybe creative is too strong
a
I'm wondering if anyone can shed some light on growing
and/or shrinking arena files (i.e., disk partitions).
With the growing popularity of logical volume management,
vitrualization, etc., resizing partitions is becoming
more and more common, and many file systems already
have resize tools
It now
booted but the username ram didn't have
any of the rc init files.
There's a script in /sys/lib/newuser that sets
up an initial set of scripts and directories
for a newly created user. The newuser(8) man
page give more detail.
BLS
BTW, I recently got hold of your OS book. Very nice book, especially
the inferno parts, which was my primary interest when I bought the
book.
Thanks, Ram. I'm glad you're enjoying it. In the midst of
moving and preparing to return to the classroom this summer,
I plan to get the copyright
ssh2 doesn't work with passwords (at
least not without changing server
settings), you need to use keys.
It does work with real password auth, but current OpenSSH
distros default to not allowing real password auth. They use
keyboard-interactive instead, and it's set up to look to the
user just
With the trick I am talking about, there is nothing to stop
you from connecting to N different remote ventis. In effect
your local (by that I mean under your control, not necessarily
on the same machine) venti can be treated as just a buffer!
I took a look at some things along those lines a
I’m looking for a very simple in-kernel filesystem.
What's motivating the desire for to be in-kernel? Nearly,
every file system in Plan 9 runs in user space. All the
ones that have been mentioned do. The only in-kernel
file system in the labs' distribution is devroot which is
read-only and
I’m trying to make a tutorial explaining the code of
a not too large kernel (9), but there are too many
things to explain so I have to cut things. So having
a simple fs which does not require to explain 9p, the
rpc, the mount device, etc would be great.
In that case, I'd suggest using
you may edit the wiki yourself to correct these issues.
The Wiki seems to be frozen (i.e., not editable anymore):
- no Edit button on
http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/software_for_Plan_9/
It was changed some time back to allow edits only using
the acme wiki interface, rather
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