Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
Alexander Kapshuk wrote: > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 9:54 PM, Brian L. Stuart> wrote: >> Which version of FreeBSD did you use, and did you use the >> Inferno on bitbucket? I'm finding it a long way from building >> out of the box there these days. > > While not a FreeBSD user, the bitbucket repository is: > grep bitbucket ~/inferno-os/.hg/hgrc > default = https://bitbucket.org/inferno-os/inferno-os > > Care to elaborate a bit more on what sort of trouble you're having > building Inferno on your system? I'm using FreeBSD 11.1. Things have changed a little since they switched from gcc to clang. I'm also running on an am64 install. First, I had to rebuild mk. The supplied binary expected the libc shared library to be named libc.6.so, but the one present on the system is just libc.so. In doing that, I found there was no setfcr-FreeBSD-386 source file. Copying the Linux one made it possible to build lib9. Now I'm fighting with the floating point stuff. None of the FP constants are found. I seem to remember running into the same thing last year and did eventually sort it out. The other problem then was that a couple of the X libraries weren't part of the 32-bit support and I could only build emu-g. BLS
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
On Sat, 12/30/17, Andre Wingorwrote: > And also ready-made live distributions for launching from USB and > installing on a desktop with simple copying > without admins privileges. I haven't thought about anything along those lines with the hosted versions, but a while back I did start putting together a bootable live CD running natively. Graphics were limited to standard VGA (640x480x16 IIRC) and I ran out of momentum when messing around with Ethernet drivers on older laptops. For a hosted version, as long as you only targeted various Unices, you could probably have a shell script that figured out which emu to run based on the output of uname. BLS
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
On 12/30/17, Rui Carmowrote: > That reminds me. Weren’t there some Inferno ports for micro controllers, Until now I did not have a need for this, so I do not know. But often there is a need for a compact live VM with a ready OS that must be run on a public terminal. This is a problem. Live USB I can not load to the terminal, it forbidden. I found only Puppy Linux in the Virtual Box, but it works very slowly. I many times used Inferno on the desktop in the past, but I had FreeBSD. It was usability. And here on Windows10x64 now the emu don't start. It's a pity. A modern OS to become popular should have a Live USB and ready-made assemblies for almost everything. I'm sorry that Inferno does not have a power now. -- http://andr.ru
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
That reminds me. Weren’t there some Inferno ports for micro controllers, along the lines of the Arduino variants or their industrial counterparts? R. > On 30 Dec 2017, at 13:41, James A. Robinsonwrote: > > Some folks did put Inferno onto an Android phone: > > https://bluishcoder.co.nz/2012/06/11/building-inferno-os-for-android-phones.html > > I think part of what drives the directions many companies > take is how easy it is to bring new people on board to do > the development. It's probably quite easy to bring in people > to program on a Linux based platform, easier than bringing > people in to learn an OS they probably haven't even heard > of. > >> On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 3:37 AM, Andre Wingor wrote: >> On 12/29/17, Brian L. Stuart wrote: >> >> [...] I don't understand why there is still no Inferno for smartphones, it >> was sharpened for such devices [...] >
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
On Saturday, December 30, 2017, James A. Robinsonwrote: > Some folks did put Inferno onto an Android phone: > On virtual (minix?) machine into Intel crystal ... ..installed Linux kernel... ...on which installed Android VM ... on which installed 9P ... on which installed Inferno OS (also VM) It reminds of some child fairy tale I'm happy to use android emulators x86 and zx80 with old zeus I always have the opportunity to show to rookie the old school features, it's great I can experiment or learn But for regular work is no way to program on a Linux based platform, easier than bringing > people in to learn an OS they probably haven't even heard > of. > Haven't even heard? Do you think that few people have heard about Bell Labs? Almost everything. Read about and try about. But every time when a new hands tries to take it and use it this is not ready! Programming on Linux is not at all like programming on Android, but it did't stop the Android. It's not because in Java, it because released powerful IDE and SDK Now there is no diff what the language, they are created for almost every big project. And virtual machine too. Inferno is compact and beauty, it deserves to be the basis WBR -- http://andr.ru
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
Some folks did put Inferno onto an Android phone: https://bluishcoder.co.nz/2012/06/11/building-inferno-os-for-android-phones.html I think part of what drives the directions many companies take is how easy it is to bring new people on board to do the development. It's probably quite easy to bring in people to program on a Linux based platform, easier than bringing people in to learn an OS they probably haven't even heard of. On Sat, Dec 30, 2017 at 3:37 AM, Andre Wingorwrote: > On 12/29/17, Brian L. Stuart wrote: > > > [...] > I don't understand why there is still no Inferno for smartphones, it > > was sharpened for such devices > [...] > >
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
On 12/29/17, Brian L. Stuartwrote: > I'll look at adding Plan 9 chapters to the book, but at least for now, > I'm finding Inferno works quite well. Well, that is right, but not works yet I'm a longtime admirer of the creativity of people from Bell Labs and when there is an opportunity I try to study, use and promote Plan9 and Inferno For example, I did the version of Inferno for vending machines. Unfortunately the company chose Linux I don't understand why there is still no Inferno for smartphones, it was sharpened for such devices Lack of powerful integrated development tools is the main drawback. Folks need IDE. Like VS Code. Or Anacode. And also ready-made live distributions for launching from USB and installing on a desktop with simple copying without admins privileges. Now I have not even been able to install the Inferno on Win10x64. I'm not admin on public terminal. I have no time and power to update and fix it. I'm refugees. I would very much like to see better times for both axes. So far they are only donors of global and genius ideas and technologies WBR -- http://andr.ru
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
On Fri, 12/29/17, Bakul Shahwrote: > On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 19:11:22 + "Brian L. Stuart" > wrote: >> I'm at the same point I usually am when getting ready to teach my winter >> term OS >> course. > > Why teach about Inferno? Just curious. It works out to be the sweet spot where a lot of considerations come together. First, I like to teach OS from an internals point of view. I feel that one should understand how one's tools work before using them. Second, like a lot of people of my generation, the way I really learned about operating systems was from Lions commentary on 6th Edition. For years, I had been thinking about writing an OS text, but had been teaching from Tanenbaum using MINIX. It was getting somewhat problematic in the days when no one was running VMs for everything and students were getting to where they didn't know how to partition drives and run other OSs. Then when Vita Nuova released the Inferno source, it was like all the pieces fell into place. It's well-written and carries a lot of the same ideas as Plan 9. Students don't have to allocate any extra hardware or even configure a VM. It's small and simple enough that we can cover all the major elements of it as well as the general principles in one term. But they're able to get some exposure to the internals of a real system and not just something created for illustrative purposes. With the ubiquity of VMs these days, a good argument could be made for using Plan 9 in a VM for the course. Maybe someday I'll look at adding Plan 9 chapters to the book, but at least for now, I'm finding Inferno works quite well. BLS
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
On Fri, 29 Dec 2017 19:11:22 + "Brian L. Stuart"wrote: Brian L. Stuart writes: > On Fri, 12/29/17, G B wrote: > > I used Inferno from bitbucket.org but wasn't able to build > > on FreeBSD 11.x/amd64 so I just reverted back to FreeBSD > > 9.3/i386.=C2=A0 But I may try to build using 11.1/i386 with > > gcc.=C2=A0 I'll have to use KVM on OpenIndiana to try it > > though since I don't have a spare physical machine at > > the moment. > > Don't go to any trouble on my account. I'm at the same point > I usually am when getting ready to teach my winter term OS > course. Why teach about Inferno? Just curious.
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
On Fri, 12/29/17, G Bwrote: > I used Inferno from bitbucket.org but wasn't able to build > on FreeBSD 11.x/amd64 so I just reverted back to FreeBSD > 9.3/i386. But I may try to build using 11.1/i386 with > gcc. I'll have to use KVM on OpenIndiana to try it > though since I don't have a spare physical machine at > the moment. Don't go to any trouble on my account. I'm at the same point I usually am when getting ready to teach my winter term OS course. I've got it built, but without the X11 support on my FreeBSD machine. It does build and run on our Linux cluster with the X11 support though, so I can at least demonstrate it to the students there. And for the record, the fix to the missing FPxxx constants was to copy over the defines from the MacOSX version of the lib9.h file. I had given some thought to adding amd64 support in at least the hosted versions, but as usual the round tuits have been in short supply. BLS
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
I used Inferno from bitbucket.org but wasn't able to build on FreeBSD 11.x/amd64 so I just reverted back to FreeBSD 9.3/i386. But I may try to build using 11.1/i386 with gcc. I'll have to use KVM on OpenIndiana to try it though since I don't have a spare physical machine at the moment. On Thursday, December 28, 2017 2:29 PM, Brian L. Stuartwrote: Alexander Kapshuk wrote: > On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 9:54 PM, Brian L. Stuart > wrote: >> Which version of FreeBSD did you use, and did you use the >> Inferno on bitbucket? I'm finding it a long way from building >> out of the box there these days. > > While not a FreeBSD user, the bitbucket repository is: > grep bitbucket ~/inferno-os/.hg/hgrc > default = https://bitbucket.org/inferno-os/inferno-os > > Care to elaborate a bit more on what sort of trouble you're having > building Inferno on your system? I'm using FreeBSD 11.1. Things have changed a little since they switched from gcc to clang. I'm also running on an am64 install. First, I had to rebuild mk. The supplied binary expected the libc shared library to be named libc.6.so, but the one present on the system is just libc.so. In doing that, I found there was no setfcr-FreeBSD-386 source file. Copying the Linux one made it possible to build lib9. Now I'm fighting with the floating point stuff. None of the FP constants are found. I seem to remember running into the same thing last year and did eventually sort it out. The other problem then was that a couple of the X libraries weren't part of the 32-bit support and I could only build emu-g. BLS
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
On Thu, Dec 28, 2017 at 9:54 PM, Brian L. Stuartwrote: > On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 7:13 PM, G B wrote: >> I've installed Inferno on FreeBSD but how do you build it for Plan 9? The >> makemk.sh file and without looking, I think the mkconfig file too, reference >> gcc. And the makemk.sh has /bin/sh. Do I have to install a Bourne or Korn >> shell plus gcc from contrib to compile? > > Which version of FreeBSD did you use, and did you use the > Inferno on bitbucket? I'm finding it a long way from building > out of the box there these days. > > BLS > While not a FreeBSD user, the bitbucket repository is: grep bitbucket ~/inferno-os/.hg/hgrc default = https://bitbucket.org/inferno-os/inferno-os Care to elaborate a bit more on what sort of trouble you're having building Inferno on your system?
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 7:13 PM, G Bwrote: > I've installed Inferno on FreeBSD but how do you build it for Plan 9? The > makemk.sh file and without looking, I think the mkconfig file too, reference > gcc. And the makemk.sh has /bin/sh. Do I have to install a Bourne or Korn > shell plus gcc from contrib to compile? Which version of FreeBSD did you use, and did you use the Inferno on bitbucket? I'm finding it a long way from building out of the box there these days. BLS
Re: [9fans] Inferno on Plan9
On Sat, Dec 23, 2017 at 7:13 PM, G Bwrote: > I've installed Inferno on FreeBSD but how do you build it for Plan 9? The > makemk.sh file and without looking, I think the mkconfig file too, reference > gcc. And the makemk.sh has /bin/sh. Do I have to install a Bourne or Korn > shell plus gcc from contrib to compile? > > Thanks. > No need to run makemk.sh on Plan9. See INSTALL for details: Quote: On Plan 9, of course, the host system's normal version of mk should be adequate.