[libreoffice-accessibility] Windows LO with JAWS

[Bryen Yunashko]

Hello,  I was given this email address and hope it is the right one to
contact.

I recently set up a Windows laptop with Windows 10 Creators Edition and
have JAWS 18 installed.  Both are fully up to the latest updates.A
couple of months ago, I installed LibreOffice and had great difficulty
because often when I started up LO, Jaws would stop working and then
restart itself.

A number of buttons and fields didn't work either.   So, I put it aside for
a while.   This week I decided to try again and asked someone to update the
latest LO as the inplace update button wasn't accessible for me.

Now, when I start LO, it does not even speak anything.  It is completely
"hidden."   But I know LO is actually running because I will randomly type
some text, then press Alt+F4 to close the program and I get a prompt to
save or discard my file.

But while LO is open, nothing works.  No menu button, tabs, arrow keys,
nothing.

Is this a known problem?

Thanks,
Bryen M Yunashko

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] navigating the autocorrect options table?

[V Stuart Foote]

Blindjourno wrote
> Using the latest NVDA on windows 10, I am having a really hard time 
> navigating through the autocorrect options tab within the dialog where 
> users can check or uncheck options like capitalize first letter of 
> sentences and otherwise? When I try to navigate the table using my table 
> keys, nothing is spoken so I have no idea what I am checking or 
> unchecking. When I tab, I hear, only, checkbox. Could someone make those 
> row headers read automatically?

That is known a11y issue inherited from OpenOffice.org and is open in the
LibreOffice Bugzilla as  tdf#88761
  

I'll give it a bump as it is pretty annoying...



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] navigating the autocorrect options table?

[V Stuart Foote]

Quintin C. had commented on similar issue with the Expert Configuration
dialog tree's table rows ( tdf#99609
  ) that with
NVDA in Object review mode--you are able to navigate the Table in the
Options tab of the AutoCorrect Options dialog.

That is forward with the "Move to next object" or backward with the "Move to
prior object" -- e.g. NVDA+numpad-6, NVDA+numpad-4

The table is arranged in 3 columns -- 1st column is a check box to be
applied when Modifying existing text, the 2nd column is a check box to be
applied while Typing in new text,  the 3rd column is the auto correct
attribute affected by the check boxes in column 1 & 2.

So, you are not completely blocked from doing the auto-correct
configuration.



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[libreoffice-accessibility] navigating the autocorrect options table?

[Robert W Kingett]

Using the latest NVDA on windows 10, I am having a really hard time 
navigating through the autocorrect options tab within the dialog where 
users can check or uncheck options like capitalize first letter of 
sentences and otherwise? When I try to navigate the table using my table 
keys, nothing is spoken so I have no idea what I am checking or 
unchecking. When I tab, I hear, only, checkbox. Could someone make those 
row headers read automatically?


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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Windows LO with JAWS

[V Stuart Foote]

Blindjourno wrote
> Since you all can take code from OO, can't you take basically, all of 
> their accessibility information and use it in LO? I mean, I stopped 
> using JAWS years ago, but I heard from other people that JAWS works with 
> OO? Would that be a lot of work? Taking all of the accessibility 
> information from OO because OO is very accessible, just not updated or 
> even nearly as stable.

Apache OpenOffice (AOO) uses the same IAccessible2 API, but unlike
LibreOffice they left the MSAA/IAccessible API in place, so there is
marginal Assistive Technology tool support in AOO with JAWS. And, nothing
that LibreOffice would care to implement--thank you.

Before its demise WindowsEyes had support for select IA2 based
applications--but never LibreOffice or AOO.

VFO/Freedom Scientific's refusal to support accessible events instrumented
with IA2 API has never made much sense to me personally, but their
insistence on Windows applications adopting Microsoft UI Automation (UIA)
brands them as a second rate player in the Free and Open Source Software
arena. It is not their business model--too bad if you are dependent on them.

LibreOffice as an OpenSource and cross platform development project is not
obliged to provide proprietary UIA bindings--an extension to "bridge" IA2 to
UIA could be developed--but we'll leave that to Freedom Scientific to
implement if they choose. We'll concentrate on making the native IA2/ATK &
AT-SPI/NSAccessibility bridges function cross platform against LibreOffices
internal accessibility modules.

For any JAWS user on Windows--LibreOffice is accessible at no cost, simply
install NVDA. Alternatively, ORCA on a Linux will do well, but if you need
more hand holding for a small fee the Hypra project's U.A.S. "Universally
Accessible operating System"  is a first rate Linux Debian distribution.

Enjoy...



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Windows LO with JAWS

[Robert W Kingett]

Since you all can take code from OO, can't you take basically, all of 
their accessibility information and use it in LO? I mean, I stopped 
using JAWS years ago, but I heard from other people that JAWS works with 
OO? Would that be a lot of work? Taking all of the accessibility 
information from OO because OO is very accessible, just not updated or 
even nearly as stable.



On 5/4/2018 4:18 PM, David Goldfield wrote:
This is distressing. Several years ago, JAWS was working reasonably 
well with LibreOffice, if my memory is correct, but I have also 
encountered the same problem with more recent versions. As you say, 
NVDA offers much better support. While NVDA has been my screen reader 
of choice for nine years I would encourage users of JAWS to contact 
VFO at supp...@vfo.com to let them know your feelings regarding the 
lack of support being offered by JAWS for this excellent suite.




David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com
On 5/4/2018 2:59 PM, V Stuart Foote wrote:

Bryen Yunashko wrote

... A couple of months ago, I installed LibreOffice and had great
difficulty because often when I started up LO, Jaws would stop 
working and

then restart itself.

A number of buttons and fields didn't work either.   So, I put it aside
for a while.   This week I decided to try again and asked someone to
update the latest LO as the inplace update button wasn't accessible for
me.

Now, when I start LO, it does not even speak anything.  It is 
completely
"hidden."   But I know LO is actually running because I will 
randomly type

some text, then press Alt+F4 to close the program and I get a prompt to
save or discard my file.

But while LO is open, nothing works.  No menu button, tabs, arrow keys,
nothing.

Is this a known problem?

Completely normal...

LibreOffice implements a native Windows accessibility bridge based on 
the

opensource IAccessible2 API

Reference:
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/

Unfortunately for JAWS users Freedom Scientific has never seen fit to
implement modular support for IA2, so the short answer is it is known 
and

JAWS willl not work with LibreOffice.

You will need to install NVDA as a free and open source Windows 
backup to
JAWS. The screen reader navigation is a bit different--but fidelity 
of IA2

accessible content is much better.  LibreOffice accessible event based
support is pretty complete--and its screen review/Graphics API "screen
scraping" rounds things out.

Available here:
https://www.nvaccess.org/

Let us know how you make out.





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RE: [libreoffice-accessibility] Windows LO with JAWS

[Alex Midence]

I've done it before.  They didn't seem to care.  The guy told me LO needed to 
be written to use UIA.  Very depressing.  So, I gave up and started using IBM 
Lotus Symphony on Windows and only use LibreOffice on Linux ever since.

-Original Message-
From: David Goldfield [mailto:dgoldfield1...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, May 4, 2018 4:19 PM
To: V Stuart Foote ; 
accessibility@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Windows LO with JAWS

This is distressing. Several years ago, JAWS was working reasonably well with 
LibreOffice, if my memory is correct, but I have also encountered the same 
problem with more recent versions. As you say, NVDA offers much better support. 
While NVDA has been my screen reader of choice for nine years I would encourage 
users of JAWS to contact VFO at supp...@vfo.com to let them know your feelings 
regarding the lack of support being offered by JAWS for this excellent suite.



David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com On 
5/4/2018 2:59 PM, V Stuart Foote wrote:
> Bryen Yunashko wrote
>> ... A couple of months ago, I installed LibreOffice and had great 
>> difficulty because often when I started up LO, Jaws would stop 
>> working and then restart itself.
>>
>> A number of buttons and fields didn't work either.   So, I put it aside
>> for a while.   This week I decided to try again and asked someone to
>> update the latest LO as the inplace update button wasn't accessible 
>> for me.
>>
>> Now, when I start LO, it does not even speak anything.  It is completely
>> "hidden."   But I know LO is actually running because I will randomly type
>> some text, then press Alt+F4 to close the program and I get a prompt 
>> to save or discard my file.
>>
>> But while LO is open, nothing works.  No menu button, tabs, arrow 
>> keys, nothing.
>>
>> Is this a known problem?
> Completely normal...
>
> LibreOffice implements a native Windows accessibility bridge based on 
> the opensource IAccessible2 API
>
> Reference:
> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/
>
> Unfortunately for JAWS users Freedom Scientific has never seen fit to 
> implement modular support for IA2, so the short answer is it is known 
> and JAWS willl not work with LibreOffice.
>
> You will need to install NVDA as a free and open source Windows backup 
> to JAWS. The screen reader navigation is a bit different--but fidelity 
> of IA2 accessible content is much better.  LibreOffice accessible 
> event based support is pretty complete--and its screen review/Graphics 
> API "screen scraping" rounds things out.
>
> Available here:
> https://www.nvaccess.org/
>
> Let us know how you make out.
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: 
> http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/Accessibility-f2006038.html
>


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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Windows LO with JAWS

[V Stuart Foote]

Bryen Yunashko wrote
> ... A couple of months ago, I installed LibreOffice and had great
> difficulty because often when I started up LO, Jaws would stop working and
> then restart itself.
> 
> A number of buttons and fields didn't work either.   So, I put it aside
> for a while.   This week I decided to try again and asked someone to
> update the latest LO as the inplace update button wasn't accessible for
> me.
> 
> Now, when I start LO, it does not even speak anything.  It is completely
> "hidden."   But I know LO is actually running because I will randomly type
> some text, then press Alt+F4 to close the program and I get a prompt to
> save or discard my file.
> 
> But while LO is open, nothing works.  No menu button, tabs, arrow keys,
> nothing.
> 
> Is this a known problem?

Completely normal...

LibreOffice implements a native Windows accessibility bridge based on the
opensource IAccessible2 API

Reference:
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/

Unfortunately for JAWS users Freedom Scientific has never seen fit to
implement modular support for IA2, so the short answer is it is known and
JAWS willl not work with LibreOffice.

You will need to install NVDA as a free and open source Windows backup to
JAWS. The screen reader navigation is a bit different--but fidelity of IA2
accessible content is much better.  LibreOffice accessible event based
support is pretty complete--and its screen review/Graphics API "screen
scraping" rounds things out. 

Available here:
https://www.nvaccess.org/

Let us know how you make out.





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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Windows LO with JAWS

[David Goldfield]

This is distressing. Several years ago, JAWS was working reasonably well 
with LibreOffice, if my memory is correct, but I have also encountered 
the same problem with more recent versions. As you say, NVDA offers much 
better support. While NVDA has been my screen reader of choice for nine 
years I would encourage users of JAWS to contact VFO at supp...@vfo.com 
to let them know your feelings regarding the lack of support being 
offered by JAWS for this excellent suite.




David Goldfield, Assistive Technology Specialist WWW.David-Goldfield.Com
On 5/4/2018 2:59 PM, V Stuart Foote wrote:

Bryen Yunashko wrote

... A couple of months ago, I installed LibreOffice and had great
difficulty because often when I started up LO, Jaws would stop working and
then restart itself.

A number of buttons and fields didn't work either.   So, I put it aside
for a while.   This week I decided to try again and asked someone to
update the latest LO as the inplace update button wasn't accessible for
me.

Now, when I start LO, it does not even speak anything.  It is completely
"hidden."   But I know LO is actually running because I will randomly type
some text, then press Alt+F4 to close the program and I get a prompt to
save or discard my file.

But while LO is open, nothing works.  No menu button, tabs, arrow keys,
nothing.

Is this a known problem?

Completely normal...

LibreOffice implements a native Windows accessibility bridge based on the
opensource IAccessible2 API

Reference:
http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/

Unfortunately for JAWS users Freedom Scientific has never seen fit to
implement modular support for IA2, so the short answer is it is known and
JAWS willl not work with LibreOffice.

You will need to install NVDA as a free and open source Windows backup to
JAWS. The screen reader navigation is a bit different--but fidelity of IA2
accessible content is much better.  LibreOffice accessible event based
support is pretty complete--and its screen review/Graphics API "screen
scraping" rounds things out.

Available here:
https://www.nvaccess.org/

Let us know how you make out.





--
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