Re: [Accessibility-ia2] aria-details and aria-errormessage mapping

[Joanmarie Diggs]

The reason one might wish to have the reverse relationship is if the
error messages could be encountered independently. Consider the
following scenario:

1. User fills out form
2. User presses submit
3. New page loads displaying the errors at the top with the form fields
   reproduced below the list of errors

(Yeah, it's artificial. But, you know, authors...)

In the above scenario, the AT didn't provide the navigation to the error
as the result of some command. Thus the AT doesn't have anything to keep
track of.

IF ATs will be expected to provide navigation between error messages and
elements with errors regardless of circumstances, THEN I think we need
the reverse relationship because doing a complete tree dive looking for
the element which points to the error is not reasonable.

On the other hand, if my scenario is so artificial that it would never
happen, then I'm fine with having to keep track of the field before
moving the user to the error.

--joanie


On 08/10/2016 08:33 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
> All reverse relations go at performance/memory cost, I would introduce
> them iff AT needs them. I'm not sure I see a valid scenario, when they
> were useful, thus deferring a decision to Joanie and Jamie, who knows
> more about AT internal gear than me.
> 
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 4:58 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger  > wrote:
> 
> Those would be great. What would you have for reverse relationships?
>  
> 
> 
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>  
>  
> 
> - Original message -
> From: Alexander Surkov  >
> To: "accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org
> "
>  >, James Teh
> >, Joanmarie
> Diggs >, Richard
> Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
> Cc:
> Subject: aria-details and aria-errormessage mapping
> Date: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 2:12 PM
>  
> Hi.
> 
> ARIA 1.1 got two relation-like attributes: aria-details [1] and
> aria-errormessage [2], used to connect an element with content
> providing extra info. Rich mentioned that these attributes are
> likely need new IAccessible2 relations to expose them, which
> sounds reasonable. If that's the case, then we should end up
> with something like:
>  
> An object containing details for the target object.
> IA2_RELATION_DETAILS
> An object containing an error message for the target object.
> IA2_RELATION_ERROR_MESSAGE
> Thanks.
> Alex.
> 
> [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-details
> 
> [2] https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-errormessage
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 

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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] aria-details and aria-errormessage mapping

[Alexander Surkov]

Note, Jamie has been objecting against new relation for aria-errormessage
[1].

[1]
https://lists.linuxfoundation.org/pipermail/accessibility-ia2/2016-April/002046.html

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 8:33 AM, Alexander Surkov <
surkov.alexan...@gmail.com> wrote:

> All reverse relations go at performance/memory cost, I would introduce
> them iff AT needs them. I'm not sure I see a valid scenario, when they were
> useful, thus deferring a decision to Joanie and Jamie, who knows more about
> AT internal gear than me.
>
> On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 4:58 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger 
> wrote:
>
>> Those would be great. What would you have for reverse relationships?
>>
>>
>>
>> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original message -
>> From: Alexander Surkov 
>> To: "accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org" <
>> accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org>, James Teh <
>> ja...@nvaccess.org>, Joanmarie Diggs , Richard
>> Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS
>> Cc:
>> Subject: aria-details and aria-errormessage mapping
>> Date: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 2:12 PM
>>
>> Hi.
>>
>> ARIA 1.1 got two relation-like attributes: aria-details [1] and
>> aria-errormessage [2], used to connect an element with content providing
>> extra info. Rich mentioned that these attributes are likely need new
>> IAccessible2 relations to expose them, which sounds reasonable. If that's
>> the case, then we should end up with something like:
>>
>> An object containing details for the target object.
>> IA2_RELATION_DETAILS
>> An object containing an error message for the target object.
>> IA2_RELATION_ERROR_MESSAGE
>> Thanks.
>> Alex.
>>
>> [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-details
>> [2] https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#aria-errormessage
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] ARIA feed role

[Alexander Surkov]

Let's go with ROLE_SYSTEM_GROUPING then until Jamie has objections.

On Wed, Aug 10, 2016 at 8:54 AM, Joanmarie Diggs  wrote:

> Hey Alex.
>
> On 08/10/2016 08:27 AM, Alexander Surkov wrote:
>
> > 1) IA2_ROLE_FEED
>
> Piñeiro might kill me if I tell him I need a new role in ATK. ;) But if
> we absolutely need one for IA2, I can pursue that. However:
>
> > 2) ROLE_SYSTEM_GROUPING with xml-roles='feed'
>
> Is what we want for ATK (i.e. ATK_ROLE_PANEL). Because a list whose
> children are not listitem elements is confusing. You have to descend the
> accessibility tree just in case there are some listitems there. And you
> still may not find them in the end.
>
> > 3) ROLE_SYSTEM_LIST with xml-roles='feed'
>
> No thank you.
>
> > Joanie, how have ATK approached to this?
>
> ATK_ROLE_PANEL as indicated above. But Rich only asked for my mappings
> recently and I've not actually done anything specific in Orca for the
> feed role. So as long as you don't want to make it a list, I'm willing
> to discuss an alternative mapping if doing so is helpful.
>
> --joanie
>
>
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Re: [Accessibility-ia2] ARIA feed role

[Alexander Surkov]

So I can see three options

1) IA2_ROLE_FEED

It will take time to be picked up by browsers and screen readers.

2) ROLE_SYSTEM_GROUPING with xml-roles='feed'

Probably more backward compatible option, as existing AT, that have no
'feed' support, can announce 'grouping'.

3) ROLE_SYSTEM_LIST with xml-roles='feed'

It's good in terms of group position info, but articles as children may be
confusing for AT.

Joanie, how have ATK approached to this?

Thanks.
Alex.


On Tue, Aug 9, 2016 at 4:57 PM, Richard Schwerdtfeger 
wrote:

> Alex,
>
> A feed is a list of articles that is infinitely scrolling. There is no
> end. This was requested by Facebook and it could also apply to Twitter and
> Instagram.
>
> Each article can have an aria-posinset and  aria-setsize. Also, the
> presence of the feed role would indicate new keyboard navigation.
>
> So, this is why it is not a "list per say".  However, you could make it a
> list with an xml-roles="feed" value but there would be no listitems. They
> would be articles.
>
> Rich Schwerdtfeger
>
>
>
> - Original message -
> From: Alexander Surkov 
> To: "accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org" <
> accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org>, James Teh <
> ja...@nvaccess.org>, Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/IBM@IBMUS, Joanmarie
> Diggs 
> Cc:
> Subject: ARIA feed role
> Date: Tue, Aug 9, 2016 2:30 PM
>
> Hi.
>
> A new 'feed' role was introduced by ARIA 1.1 [1], which is a list of
> feeds. I'm curious if the new ARIA role deserves a new IA2 role or we can
> go with MSAA ROLE_SYSTEM_LIST role as we do for ARIA directory role [2] and
> [3].
>
> Thanks.
> Alex.
>
> [1] https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#feed
> [2] https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.1/#directory
> [3] https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-implementation/#mapping_role_table
>
>
>
>
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