I've been reading the responses and have been thinking about a response. It was going well until considering more deeply the suggestion of using clipping to know if text is 1) on screen and 2) visible.
I am sending my thoughts to a system engineer before distributing to the list. I just want to make sure I give you the best quality feedback. I'll have something tomorrow. Thanks, Shawn From: Richard Schwerdtfeger [mailto:sch...@us.ibm.com] Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 5:02 PM To: Peter Korn Cc: accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org; accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org; Alexander Surkov; Shawn Warren Subject: Re: [Accessibility-ia2] exposing content that is not visible Not as simple as just text. Today's content has embedded object, widgets, etc. Clipping gets more challenging. Rich web applications have notebook tabs, etc. It us much more than 3 calls. Whenever the document changes you have to clip widgets, text, bitmaps, etc. Is the right place to do it the AT or the app. that owns the content. So, when you look at dynamic pages with live regions synched to servers using Ajax you can have lots of updates. Whenever it changes we are then asking the AT to clip. Some ATs may be run out of process. Make sense? Rich Rich Schwerdtfeger CTO Accessibility Software Group Peter Korn ---05/17/2010 03:20:08 PM---Rich, Peter Korn <peter.k...@oracle.com> 05/17/2010 03:16 PM To Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/i...@ibmus cc accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org, accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexan...@gmail.com>, Shawn Warren <swar...@aisquared.com> Subject Re: [Accessibility-ia2] exposing content that is not visible Rich, I look forward to hearing from Shawn on this, but at first blush, I wouldn't expect a performance issue to ATs. You get some event from the text object (e.g. focus change, or caret move, or text added), you go up one level to the parent to get it's rectangle/bounds, and then you only show that rectangle within the magnified region. That's what, 3 API calls? But perhaps I don't fully understand the use case(s). Shawn - can you describe the scenario(s) you are working in in detail? Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Principal Oracle Peter, I would think so but it would be a performance hit to ATs. Also, I am not sure how readily available the clipping regions are where they would do the clipping. Perhaps Shawn could weigh in on his thoughts here? Shawn? Rich Rich Schwerdtfeger CTO Accessibility Software Group Peter Korn ---05/17/2010 12:38:49 PM---Rich, Peter Korn <peter.k...@oracle.com> <mailto:peter.k...@oracle.com> 05/17/2010 12:35 PM To Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/i...@ibmus cc Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexan...@gmail.com> <mailto:surkov.alexan...@gmail.com> , accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org, accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Shawn Warren <swar...@aisquared.com> <mailto:swar...@aisquared.com> Subject Re: [Accessibility-ia2] exposing content that is not visible Rich, The particular use case here is around text, yes? IA2/ATK/JA-API should all expose character boundary information (the bounding rectangle of every character in every accessible object). Likewise, the boundary of whatever the text is contained in is likewise exposed. So it should be a fairly trivial operation for a screen magnifier to do this clipping operation - just by clipping to the object containing the text. No? Regards, Peter Korn Accessibility Principal Oracle Hi Alex, Exposing clipped content is great for screen readers. What AI Squared is saying is that they would like to know something is not visible ( due to clipping) as they are trying to magnify what is visible. Imagine you have low vision and are reading a text and magnifying that part of the scree but it is partially obscured. So, you are magnifying a part of the screen that does not exist visually. Having access to the offscreen information is essential for a screen reader user who may be searching for content and does no care if something is obscured but for a magnifier users this is a problem. AI Squared has had to resort to using their offscreen model which represents only visual information to magnify as things are being read to the user. I would like to reduce the dependency on having to use screen scraping technology. It is invasive to systems and is less accurate than accessibility APIs. Rich Rich Schwerdtfeger CTO Accessibility Software Group Alexander Surkov <surkov.alexan...@gmail.com> <mailto:surkov.alexan...@gmail.com> 05/15/2010 01:35 AM To Richard Schwerdtfeger/Austin/i...@ibmus cc p...@a11ysoft.com, accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org, accessibility-ia2-boun...@lists.linuxfoundation.org, Shawn Warren <swar...@aisquared.com> <mailto:swar...@aisquared.com> Subject Re: [Accessibility-ia2] exposing content that is not visible Hi, Rich. Clipped and scrolled off elements operable, for example, keyboard shortcuts works. So I would say they should be accessible, expose offscreen state, attached to accessible tree and as consequence no new API is needed. At least this is how it works in Firefox. Thank you. Alex. On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 6:47 AM, Richard Schwerdtfeger <sch...@us.ibm.com> <mailto:sch...@us.ibm.com> wrote: > I was speaking with Shawn Warren of AI Squared and he indicated that he > would like to have IA2 be able to hid access to content that is not visible. > In particular it appears Shawn was referring to content and componentry that > was clipped out due to window size and other windows obscuring the content. > > I was thinking about this and perhaps the right way to do this would be have > an API feature that would turn on clipping for at least documents. What do > others think? > > > Rich Schwerdtfeger > CTO Accessibility Software Group > > _______________________________________________ > Accessibility-ia2 mailing list > Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org <mailto:Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org> > https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 <https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2> > > ________________________________ _______________________________________________ Accessibility-ia2 mailing list Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org <mailto:Accessibility-ia2@lists.linuxfoundation.org> https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2 <https://lists.linux-foundation.org/mailman/listinfo/accessibility-ia2>
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