Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Inserting comments with a screen reader.

2024-02-11 Thread V Stuart Foote

On 2024-02-11 09:44, Jason J.G. White wrote:

On 11/2/24 09:22, V Stuart Foote wrote:
The  + 4 to land directly on the Navigator deck followed by  
and Cursor down movements down to the Comments nodes does expose the 
content of each of the comments.


Additionally when focused on a comment in Windows the  +  
will expose the context menu for the comment allowing editing and a go 
to action.


Thank you for the update. The next time I receive an office-file-format 
document containing comments, I'll try the above-mentioned features. 
I'm using Linux with Orca.


Naturally, I would welcome improvements in this area. I shouldn't have 
to turn to Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office just to read and 
respond to comments in a document.


Can't test currently, but the Windows + for Context menu 
(i.e.  keycode 135 keysym MENU : 0xFF67) according to a quick Google 
search, in addition to +, might be provided via + 
in some Linux DE, and by + on macOS -- you have to figure 
out the mapping for the MENU if not +. The xev utility 
should expose which on Linux.


Otherwise Navigation down to the Comment object listing in the Sidebar 
Navigator deck should work the same cross platform. And once there, 
focus onto each to sound. Or open its context menu to manipulate.  Would 
be nice to be able to get there directly via shortcut -- perhaps 
overloading the ++ to direct into the SB 
Navigator deck.


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V Stuart Foote

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Inserting comments with a screen reader.

2024-02-11 Thread Jason J.G. White


On 11/2/24 09:22, V Stuart Foote wrote:
The  + 4 to land directly on the Navigator deck followed by  
and Cursor down movements down to the Comments nodes does expose the 
content of each of the comments.


Additionally when focused on a comment in Windows the  +  
will expose the context menu for the comment allowing editing and a go 
to action.


Thank you for the update. The next time I receive an office-file-format 
document containing comments, I'll try the above-mentioned features. I'm 
using Linux with Orca.


Naturally, I would welcome improvements in this area. I shouldn't have 
to turn to Microsoft Windows and Microsoft Office just to read and 
respond to comments in a document.



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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Inserting comments with a screen reader.

2024-02-11 Thread V Stuart Foote

On 2024-02-11 00:57, Stéphane Guillou wrote:


Thanks for the response, Stuart.

Another useful shortcut is Ctrl + Alt + Pg Up or Down to jump from one 
comment to another.


I'll add two relevant tickets regarding the currently limited 
accessibility of Writer comments:


 * Allow editing comments using the keyboard:
   https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102054
 * Comment text not interacted with by screen readers:
   https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92389

Cheers



Yes, it is more of a mess than I'd remembered. With Win10 and NVDA 
2023.3.2 and LO 24.2.03 unfortunately the ++ or 
 will land on the Comment but then does not sound them, suspect 
missing/mistyped accessible event on focus. They're only available via 
convoluted keyboard navigation into the Navigator Comments listing.


I don't have an ORCA set up at the moment, but suspect similar there 
(only via context menu from the Navigator deck).


Status as Christophe S. summarized in comment 11 of tdf#92389 [1] and as 
noted in the NVDA issues [2] [3].


Since then, the work on the Navigator deck has moved things along a 
little bit.


The  + 4 to land directly on the Navigator deck followed by  
and Cursor down movements down to the Comments nodes does expose the 
content of each of the comments.


Additionally when focused on a comment in Windows the  +  
will expose the context menu for the comment allowing editing and a go 
to action.


But, much room to improve.

=-ref-=
[1] https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92389
[2] https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/7700
[3] https://github.com/nvaccess/nvda/issues/11684


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V Stuart Foote

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Inserting comments with a screen reader.

2024-02-10 Thread Stéphane Guillou

On 11/02/2024 02:14, V Stuart Foote wrote:

On 2024-02-10 10:30, Robert Kingett wrote:
I am running the 2024.2 version of LibreOffice, on Windows 11, the 
latest version, and using the free and open source screen reader 
NVDA. When I press the key command to insert a comment in a Writer 
document, control Alt M, a pane opens but when I press F6 and 
navigate to the pane, that's when I have an extremely hard time 
finding that edit field. Could someone give me a bit more guidance on 
how to actually open the comments edit box or at least provide me 
with a layout as to what is in that pane so I know how to navigate it 
better?


The shortcut to open a new comment is Control + Alt + C

Alternative to create new comment is to use the main menu via F10,  
then enter I, then enter N as accelerator. The specific key for 
accelerator can/will change depending on locale.  The shortcut Control 
+ Alt + C should be stable.


When you open the Comment dialog, you already are in its edit field. 
After entering content, an Escape key will return edit cursor focus to 
the document canvas.


However, once comment is present on document canvas, there is limited 
keyboard navigation via document canvas. An F6 sequence will take 
cursor focus out of the document. Not into the comment objects.


So instead, the Sidebar provides the Navigator deck, where Comments 
can be efficiently reviewed.  Use the Alt key + number 4 shortcut to 
land on the Navigator SB deck. Alternative is to launch an undocked 
Navigator using the F5 key. Slightly different behavior between the 
floating F5 navigator and the sidebar deck via Alt key + number 4 
(don't use the numpad 4).


Once focused on the Navigator deck, simple TAB or Shift TAB will move 
between blocks of controls, while Cursor up or down will advance 
through items.


If you get lost, F10 will always take you back to main menu. And F6 or 
shift F6 moves between major UI elements.   The Alt + number 4 will 
take you to the sidebar Navigator deck or F5 will toggle the floating 
navigator open or closed.


The navigator has many movement modes, the one you want is listed as 
Navigate by comments.  But there are many other things you could 
navigate the document by. For example bookmarks, pages, frames 
depending on what is present in the document.  Be sure of which 
selection is made in the navigate by list box.


Give that a try for manipulating Comments

Please ask if you have specific issues


Thanks for the response, Stuart.

Another useful shortcut is Ctrl + Alt + Pg Up or Down to jump from one 
comment to another.


I'll add two relevant tickets regarding the currently limited 
accessibility of Writer comments:


 * Allow editing comments using the keyboard:
   https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=102054
 * Comment text not interacted with by screen readers:
   https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=92389

Cheers

--
Stéphane Guillou
Quality Assurance Analyst | The Document Foundation

Email:[email protected]
Matrix: @stragu:matrix.org
Fediverse: @[email protected]
Web:https://stragu.gitlab.io/

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Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] Inserting comments with a screen reader.

2024-02-10 Thread V Stuart Foote

On 2024-02-10 10:30, Robert Kingett wrote:
I am running the 2024.2 version of LibreOffice, on Windows 11, the 
latest version, and using the free and open source screen reader NVDA. 
When I press the key command to insert a comment in a Writer document, 
control Alt M, a pane opens but when I press F6 and navigate to the 
pane, that's when I have an extremely hard time finding that edit 
field. Could someone give me a bit more guidance on how to actually 
open the comments edit box or at least provide me with a layout as to 
what is in that pane so I know how to navigate it better?


The shortcut to open a new comment is Control + Alt + C

Alternative to create new comment is to use the main menu via F10,  then 
enter I, then enter N as accelerator. The specific key for accelerator 
can/will change depending on locale.  The shortcut Control + Alt + C 
should be stable.


When you open the Comment dialog, you already are in its edit field. 
After entering content, an Escape key will return edit cursor focus to 
the document canvas.


However, once comment is present on document canvas, there is limited 
keyboard navigation via document canvas. An F6 sequence will take cursor 
focus out of the document. Not into the comment objects.


So instead, the Sidebar provides the Navigator deck, where Comments can 
be efficiently reviewed.  Use the Alt key + number 4 shortcut to land on 
the Navigator SB deck. Alternative is to launch an undocked Navigator 
using the F5 key. Slightly different behavior between the floating F5 
navigator and the sidebar deck via Alt key + number 4 (don't use the 
numpad 4).


Once focused on the Navigator deck, simple TAB or Shift TAB will move 
between blocks of controls, while Cursor up or down will advance through 
items.


If you get lost, F10 will always take you back to main menu. And F6 or 
shift F6 moves between major UI elements.   The Alt + number 4 will take 
you to the sidebar Navigator deck or F5 will toggle the floating 
navigator open or closed.


The navigator has many movement modes, the one you want is listed as 
Navigate by comments.  But there are many other things you could 
navigate the document by. For example bookmarks, pages, frames depending 
on what is present in the document.  Be sure of which selection is made 
in the navigate by list box.


Give that a try for manipulating Comments

Please ask if you have specific issues

--
Stuart

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