Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] MacOS: When arrowing up and down, not every new line or paragraph is spoken by VoiceOver

2025-01-29 Thread Michael Weghorn

Hi Marco,

On 2025-01-25 14:39, Marco Zehe wrote:

I filed a bug and attached sample documents to it which don’t have critical 
content: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164849


Thanks a lot! I can reproduce the issue with VoiceOver on macOS. Orca on 
Linux and NVDA on Windows announce the sample doc just fine. With JAWS 
on Windows, I can also reproduce some issue (presumably related to 
relations, but that might be a different root cause).


Michael

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [email protected]
Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy


Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] MacOS: When arrowing up and down, not every new line or paragraph is spoken by VoiceOver

2025-01-25 Thread Marco Zehe
Hi Michael and List,

Re-sending this because I originally sent it to Michael only accidentally.


> Am 21.01.2025 um 16:57 schrieb Michael Weghorn :
> If you have sample documents, it would be great if you could attach them to a 
> new bug report in Bugzilla or (in particular if you only have documents that 
> can't be attached to a public bug tracker) send them to me directly.

I filed a bug and attached sample documents to it which don’t have critical 
content: https://bugs.documentfoundation.org/show_bug.cgi?id=164849

Marco


-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [email protected]
Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy


Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] MacOS: When arrowing up and down, not every new line or paragraph is spoken by VoiceOver

2025-01-21 Thread Michael Weghorn

Hi Marco,

On 2025-01-21 14:17, Marco Zehe wrote:

The worst experience is that of an imported .docx document. That basically has 
this problem from the start.

An .odt document that was created by someone else or some software like an 
EtherPad, reads fine, all text is in the first multiline text field accessible. 
If I add to that document, each new paragraph gets its own text accessible 
object, and that also remains so after saving, closing, and reopening. As if 
LibreOffice differentiates between what was originally there and what was added 
by the user in this application.

If I start with a fresh .odt document, each paragraph gets its own accessible, 
but at least things read mostly consistently.

If someone wants to look at sample documents, I have nonsensical content that I 
can share privately, don’t want to bother the list.


I haven't seen the behavior you describe with Orca on Linux or recent 
NVDA versions on Windows, but I was sent a sample document that shows 
behavior similar to what you describe with JAWS on Windows.


I didn't get to look into it too much yet, but from what I've seen so 
far, there's some inconsistency in Writer's a11y implementation related 
to off-creen content and when information gets queried via relations 
(flows-from/flows-to).


What you're experiencing on macOS might be the same underlying issue.

If you have sample documents, it would be great if you could attach them 
to a new bug report in Bugzilla or (in particular if you only have 
documents that can't be attached to a public bug tracker) send them to 
me directly.


Michael

--
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [email protected]
Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy


Re: [libreoffice-accessibility] MacOS: When arrowing up and down, not every new line or paragraph is spoken by VoiceOver

2025-01-21 Thread Marco Zehe
Hi again,

I have some more information to share.

The worst experience is that of an imported .docx document. That basically has 
this problem from the start.

An .odt document that was created by someone else or some software like an 
EtherPad, reads fine, all text is in the first multiline text field accessible. 
If I add to that document, each new paragraph gets its own text accessible 
object, and that also remains so after saving, closing, and reopening. As if 
LibreOffice differentiates between what was originally there and what was added 
by the user in this application.

If I start with a fresh .odt document, each paragraph gets its own accessible, 
but at least things read mostly consistently.

If someone wants to look at sample documents, I have nonsensical content that I 
can share privately, don’t want to bother the list.

Thanks!

Marco


> Am 21.01.2025 um 12:42 schrieb Marco Zehe :
> 
> Hi there!
> 
> After a longer hiatus, I am trying out the current LibreOffice 24.8.4 on 
> MacOS Sequoia 15.2.
> 
> While doing so, I noticed that not every paragraph in a document is spoken 
> when arrowing up and down. Sometimes VoiceOver only issues a „ding“, 
> sometimes nothing happens. Then, after a few presses of up or down arrow, a 
> random new paragraph gets spoken, when focus moves to it.
> 
> Under MacOS, each paragraph is its own text control inside a container. It 
> appears that not every transition from one paragraph/text control to the next 
> is being announced.
> 
> Is this known already?
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> Marco
> 
> P.S. I no longer have Windows to compare to, I am on MacOS exclusively these 
> days.
> 
> 
> -- 
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: [email protected]
> Problems? 
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
> Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
> List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
> Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy


-- 
To unsubscribe e-mail to: [email protected]
Problems? https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
Posting guidelines + more: https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
List archive: https://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/accessibility/
Privacy Policy: https://www.documentfoundation.org/privacy