Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-16 Thread Lewis Bergman 
Shade helps a lot too.

On Fri, Aug 16, 2019 at 9:17 AM castarritt .  wrote:

> All of our DDB boxes have the brushed metal finish.  I painted one of them
> with some white elastomeric roof coating stuff from Lowes that is meant to
> reflect solar energy, and the peak internal temp only went down ~5°F.  We
> have a lot of gear in that box, so I think an application with a larger
> ratio of solar gain to internal heat generation would benefit more.  After
> the paint failed to solve the problem, I replaced the 110cfm fans with a
> pair of 48vdc 250+cfm fans, and the temp went down 20°F; it does make a lot
> more noise though.
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 6:31 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> The difference between standard machine grey and just bright white spray
>> paint from the hardware store is dramatic.  I suspect everything beyond
>> that is incremental.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also back around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from DDB, I
>> thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all the traffic control
>> boxes I see are plain metal or stainless steel.  The salesperson said I
>> absolutely didn’t want plain metal because it would get hot in the sun and
>> what I wanted was the cream color.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>>
>>
>>
>> If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there says all
>> ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.
>>
>> I did find a good discussion on Scientific American (
>> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/).
>> They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest that you
>> not get your hopes up.
>>
>> I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective white
>> paint, and try to keep it clean.
>>
>>
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>>
>> Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain “satellite
>> white” I use.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things like
>> polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really bad at
>> reflecting heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome wrench that has been
>> left in the hot summer sun and realized hot much it absorbs.  I am guessing
>> what we see as reflective, Infra Red sees as flat black.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Bill Prince
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>>
>>
>>
>> Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.
>>
>> You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around $250
>> per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another material at near
>> the same price. However, for an advertised reduction in temperature of over
>> 60 degrees F, it may be worth a look.
>>
>> https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I thought there
>> might be some interest.
>>
>> Cabinet heat load
>> <https://www.ddbunlimited.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Solar-Load-on-DDB-Enclosures.pdf>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Lewis Bergman
>>
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>


-- 
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-16 Thread chuck 
Yeah, live load makes a big difference.  Lots of live load in a small box, the 
color of the box does not matter much.
Little live load in a large box, color makes all the difference.  

From: castarritt . 
Sent: Friday, August 16, 2019 8:16 AM
To: AnimalFarm Microwave Users Group 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

All of our DDB boxes have the brushed metal finish.  I painted one of them with 
some white elastomeric roof coating stuff from Lowes that is meant to reflect 
solar energy, and the peak internal temp only went down ~5°F.  We have a lot of 
gear in that box, so I think an application with a larger ratio of solar gain 
to internal heat generation would benefit more.  After the paint failed to 
solve the problem, I replaced the 110cfm fans with a pair of 48vdc 250+cfm 
fans, and the temp went down 20°F; it does make a lot more noise though.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 6:31 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  The difference between standard machine grey and just bright white spray 
paint from the hardware store is dramatic.  I suspect everything beyond that is 
incremental.



  Also back around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from DDB, I 
thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all the traffic control boxes I 
see are plain metal or stainless steel.  The salesperson said I absolutely 
didn’t want plain metal because it would get hot in the sun and what I wanted 
was the cream color.



  From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
  Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
  To: af@af.afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load



  If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there says all 
ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.

  I did find a good discussion on Scientific American 
(https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/). 
They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest that you not 
get your hopes up.

  I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective white 
paint, and try to keep it clean.



bp On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain “satellite 
white” I use.  





I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things like 
polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really bad at reflecting 
heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome wrench that has been left in the 
hot summer sun and realized hot much it absorbs.  I am guessing what we see as 
reflective, Infra Red sees as flat black.  



From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load



Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on. 

You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around $250 per 
5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another material at near the same 
price. However, for an advertised reduction in temperature of over 60 degrees 
F, it may be worth a look.

  https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/

bp On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

  I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I thought there 
might be some interest.

  Cabinet heat load




  -- 

  Lewis Bergman 

  325-439-0533 Cell








-- 
AF mailing list
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com





  -- 
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  AF@af.afmug.com
  http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com




-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
-- 
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http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-16 Thread castarritt . 
All of our DDB boxes have the brushed metal finish.  I painted one of them
with some white elastomeric roof coating stuff from Lowes that is meant to
reflect solar energy, and the peak internal temp only went down ~5°F.  We
have a lot of gear in that box, so I think an application with a larger
ratio of solar gain to internal heat generation would benefit more.  After
the paint failed to solve the problem, I replaced the 110cfm fans with a
pair of 48vdc 250+cfm fans, and the temp went down 20°F; it does make a lot
more noise though.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 6:31 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> The difference between standard machine grey and just bright white spray
> paint from the hardware store is dramatic.  I suspect everything beyond
> that is incremental.
>
>
>
> Also back around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from DDB, I
> thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all the traffic control
> boxes I see are plain metal or stainless steel.  The salesperson said I
> absolutely didn’t want plain metal because it would get hot in the sun and
> what I wanted was the cream color.
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>
>
>
> If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there says all
> ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.
>
> I did find a good discussion on Scientific American (
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/).
> They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest that you
> not get your hopes up.
>
> I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective white
> paint, and try to keep it clean.
>
>
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:
>
> Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain “satellite
> white” I use.
>
>
>
>
>
> I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things like
> polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really bad at
> reflecting heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome wrench that has been
> left in the hot summer sun and realized hot much it absorbs.  I am guessing
> what we see as reflective, Infra Red sees as flat black.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>
>
>
> Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.
>
> You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around $250
> per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another material at near
> the same price. However, for an advertised reduction in temperature of over
> 60 degrees F, it may be worth a look.
>
> https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I thought there
> might be some interest.
>
> Cabinet heat load
> <https://www.ddbunlimited.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Solar-Load-on-DDB-Enclosures.pdf>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
-- 
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Forrest Christian (List Account) 
I thought it was because it was made from fiberglass or plastic so the mind
control rays could get in.

On Thu, Aug 15, 2019, 6:23 PM Bill Prince  wrote:

> It improves memory in children.
>
> We have a shed in the backyard with a metal roof. Plain gray. Nothing
> fancy. I used my laser thermometer on the inside early this afternoon. The
> OAT was 91F. The inside temp of just the roof was 152F.
>
> I should have brought bacon, eggs, and a frying pan.
> --
> bp
> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 5:03 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> OK, is that why they paint the tops of school buses white?  I've always
>> wondered about that.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
>> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:55 PM
>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>>
>> Why most smart airplane owners want at least the top to be white!
>>
>> On 08/15/2019 04:40 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> > Burt Rutan did a study of his own back around 1985 or so, as his
>> > fiberglass creations were all sensitive to heat (room
>> > temperature-cured epoxy/fiberglass). There is no question that pure,
>> > unadulterated white is the best "color" to prevent thermal gain from
>> > direct sun. All other colors, cream, light yellow, even mirror
>> > experienced significant gains above just plain white.
>> >
>> > bp
>> > 
>> >
>> > On 8/15/2019 4:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The difference between standard machine grey and just bright white
>> >> spray paint from the hardware store is dramatic.  I suspect
>> >> everything beyond that is incremental.
>> >>
>> >> Also back around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from
>> >> DDB, I thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all the
>> >> traffic control boxes I see are plain metal or stainless steel.  The
>> >> salesperson said I absolutely didn’t want plain metal because it
>> >> would get hot in the sun and what I wanted was the cream color.
>> >>
>> >> *From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
>> >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>> >>
>> >> If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there says
>> >> all ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.
>> >>
>> >> I did find a good discussion on Scientific American
>> >> (
>> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/
>> ).
>> >> They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest
>> >> that you not get your hopes up.
>> >>
>> >> I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective
>> >> white paint, and try to keep it clean.
>> >>
>> >> bp
>> >> 
>> >>
>> >> On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain
>> >> “satellite white” I use.
>> >>
>> >> I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things
>> >> like polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really
>> >> bad at reflecting heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome
>> >> wrench that has been left in the hot summer sun and realized hot
>> >> much it absorbs.  I am guessing what we see as reflective, Infra
>> >> Red sees as flat black.
>> >>
>> >> *From:*Bill Prince
>> >>
>> >> *Sent:*Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM
>> >>
>> >> *To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>> >>
>> >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>> >>
>> >> Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.
>> >>
>> >> You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around
>> >> $250 per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another
>> >> material at near the same price. However, for an advertised
>> >> reduction in temperature of over 60 degrees F, it may be worth a
>> look.
>> >>
>> >> https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/
>> >>
>> >> bp
>> >>
>> >>

Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Chuck McCown 
You would think so, but the paint outperformed the shade.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Aug 15, 2019, at 7:47 PM, Robert  wrote:
> 
> So what is the performance of a shade of some color vs painting.   For small 
> boxes, a shade would seem to be the best solution?
> 
>> On 8/15/19 5:22 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>> It improves memory in children.
>> 
>> We have a shed in the backyard with a metal roof. Plain gray. Nothing fancy. 
>> I used my laser thermometer on the inside early this afternoon. The OAT was 
>> 91F. The inside temp of just the roof was 152F.
>> 
>> I should have brought bacon, eggs, and a frying pan.
>> --
>> bp
>> part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com
>> 
>> 
>>> On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 5:03 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>>> OK, is that why they paint the tops of school buses white?  I've always 
>>> wondered about that.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-----
>>> From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
>>> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:55 PM
>>> To: af@af.afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>>> 
>>> Why most smart airplane owners want at least the top to be white!
>>> 
>>> On 08/15/2019 04:40 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
>>> > Burt Rutan did a study of his own back around 1985 or so, as his 
>>> > fiberglass creations were all sensitive to heat (room 
>>> > temperature-cured epoxy/fiberglass). There is no question that pure, 
>>> > unadulterated white is the best "color" to prevent thermal gain from 
>>> > direct sun. All other colors, cream, light yellow, even mirror 
>>> > experienced significant gains above just plain white.
>>> > 
>>> > bp
>>> > 
>>> > 
>>> > On 8/15/2019 4:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> The difference between standard machine grey and just bright white 
>>> >> spray paint from the hardware store is dramatic.  I suspect 
>>> >> everything beyond that is incremental.
>>> >>
>>> >> Also back around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from 
>>> >> DDB, I thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all the 
>>> >> traffic control boxes I see are plain metal or stainless steel.  The 
>>> >> salesperson said I absolutely didn’t want plain metal because it 
>>> >> would get hot in the sun and what I wanted was the cream color.
>>> >>
>>> >> *From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>>> >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
>>> >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>>> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>>> >>
>>> >> If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there says 
>>> >> all ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.
>>> >>
>>> >> I did find a good discussion on Scientific American 
>>> >> (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/).
>>> >> They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest 
>>> >> that you not get your hopes up.
>>> >>
>>> >> I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective 
>>> >> white paint, and try to keep it clean.
>>> >>
>>> >> bp
>>> >> 
>>> >>
>>> >> On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain
>>> >> “satellite white” I use.
>>> >>
>>> >> I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things
>>> >> like polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really
>>> >> bad at reflecting heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome
>>> >> wrench that has been left in the hot summer sun and realized hot
>>> >> much it absorbs.  I am guessing what we see as reflective, Infra
>>> >> Red sees as flat black.
>>> >>
>>> >> *From:*Bill Prince
>>> >>
>>> >> *Sent:*Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM
>>> >>
>>> >> *To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>>> >>
>>> >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>>> >>
>>> >> Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.
>>> >>
>&

Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Robert 
So what is the performance of a shade of some color vs painting.   For 
small boxes, a shade would seem to be the best solution?


On 8/15/19 5:22 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

It improves memory in children.

We have a shed in the backyard with a metal roof. Plain gray. Nothing 
fancy. I used my laser thermometer on the inside early this afternoon. 
The OAT was 91F. The inside temp of just the roof was 152F.


I should have brought bacon, eggs, and a frying pan.
--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 5:03 PM Ken Hohhof <mailto:af...@kwisp.com>> wrote:


OK, is that why they paint the tops of school buses white?  I've
always wondered about that.

-Original Message-
From: AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:55 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

Why most smart airplane owners want at least the top to be white!

On 08/15/2019 04:40 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> Burt Rutan did a study of his own back around 1985 or so, as his
> fiberglass creations were all sensitive to heat (room
> temperature-cured epoxy/fiberglass). There is no question that
pure,
> unadulterated white is the best "color" to prevent thermal gain
from
> direct sun. All other colors, cream, light yellow, even mirror
> experienced significant gains above just plain white.
>
> bp
> 
>
> On 8/15/2019 4:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> The difference between standard machine grey and just bright white
>> spray paint from the hardware store is dramatic.  I suspect
>> everything beyond that is incremental.
>>
>> Also back around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from
>> DDB, I thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all the
>> traffic control boxes I see are plain metal or stainless
steel.  The
>> salesperson said I absolutely didn’t want plain metal because it
>> would get hot in the sun and what I wanted was the cream color.
>>
>> *From:*AF mailto:af-boun...@af.afmug.com>> *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
    >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>>
>> If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there says
>> all ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.
>>
>> I did find a good discussion on Scientific American
>>
(https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/).
>> They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest
>> that you not get your hopes up.
>>
>> I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective
>> white paint, and try to keep it clean.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>
<mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote:
>>
>>     Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain
>>     “satellite white” I use.
>>
>>     I have always found it interesting that highly reflective
things
>>     like polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be
really
>>     bad at reflecting heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome
>>     wrench that has been left in the hot summer sun and
realized hot
>>     much it absorbs.  I am guessing what we see as reflective,
Infra
>>     Red sees as flat black.
>>
>>     *From:*Bill Prince
>>
>>     *Sent:*Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM
>>
>>     *To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
<mailto:af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>>
>>
>>     *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>>
>>     Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.
>>
>>     You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey;
around
>>     $250 per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another
>>     material at near the same price. However, for an advertised
>>     reduction in temperature of over 60 degrees F, it may be
worth a look.
>>
>> https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/
>>
>>     bp
>>
>>     
>>
>>     On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>>         I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I
>>     

Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Bill Prince 
It improves memory in children.

We have a shed in the backyard with a metal roof. Plain gray. Nothing
fancy. I used my laser thermometer on the inside early this afternoon. The
OAT was 91F. The inside temp of just the roof was 152F.

I should have brought bacon, eggs, and a frying pan.
--
bp
part15sbs{at}gmail{dot}com


On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 5:03 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> OK, is that why they paint the tops of school buses white?  I've always
> wondered about that.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
> Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:55 PM
> To: af@af.afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>
> Why most smart airplane owners want at least the top to be white!
>
> On 08/15/2019 04:40 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> > Burt Rutan did a study of his own back around 1985 or so, as his
> > fiberglass creations were all sensitive to heat (room
> > temperature-cured epoxy/fiberglass). There is no question that pure,
> > unadulterated white is the best "color" to prevent thermal gain from
> > direct sun. All other colors, cream, light yellow, even mirror
> > experienced significant gains above just plain white.
> >
> > bp
> > 
> >
> > On 8/15/2019 4:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> >>
> >> The difference between standard machine grey and just bright white
> >> spray paint from the hardware store is dramatic.  I suspect
> >> everything beyond that is incremental.
> >>
> >> Also back around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from
> >> DDB, I thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all the
> >> traffic control boxes I see are plain metal or stainless steel.  The
> >> salesperson said I absolutely didn’t want plain metal because it
> >> would get hot in the sun and what I wanted was the cream color.
> >>
> >> *From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> >> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
> >> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
> >>
> >> If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there says
> >> all ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.
> >>
> >> I did find a good discussion on Scientific American
> >> (
> https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/).
> >> They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest
> >> that you not get your hopes up.
> >>
> >> I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective
> >> white paint, and try to keep it clean.
> >>
> >> bp
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain
> >> “satellite white” I use.
> >>
> >> I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things
> >> like polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really
> >> bad at reflecting heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome
> >> wrench that has been left in the hot summer sun and realized hot
> >> much it absorbs.  I am guessing what we see as reflective, Infra
> >> Red sees as flat black.
> >>
> >> *From:*Bill Prince
> >>
> >> *Sent:*Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM
> >>
> >> *To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
> >>
> >> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
> >>
> >> Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.
> >>
> >> You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around
> >> $250 per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another
> >> material at near the same price. However, for an advertised
> >> reduction in temperature of over 60 degrees F, it may be worth a
> look.
> >>
> >> https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/
> >>
> >> bp
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >> On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> >>
> >> I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I
> >> thought there might be some interest.
> >>
> >> Cabinet heat load
> >>
> >> <https://www.ddbunlimited.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Solar-Load-o
> >> n-DDB-Enclosures.pdf>
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Lewis Bergman
> >>
> >> 325-439-0533 Cell
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> -
> >> ---
> >>
> >> --
> >> AF mailing list
> >> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
> >> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
>
>
> --
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> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Ken Hohhof 
OK, is that why they paint the tops of school buses white?  I've always 
wondered about that.

-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:55 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

Why most smart airplane owners want at least the top to be white!

On 08/15/2019 04:40 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
> Burt Rutan did a study of his own back around 1985 or so, as his 
> fiberglass creations were all sensitive to heat (room 
> temperature-cured epoxy/fiberglass). There is no question that pure, 
> unadulterated white is the best "color" to prevent thermal gain from 
> direct sun. All other colors, cream, light yellow, even mirror 
> experienced significant gains above just plain white.
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> On 8/15/2019 4:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
>>
>> The difference between standard machine grey and just bright white 
>> spray paint from the hardware store is dramatic.  I suspect 
>> everything beyond that is incremental.
>>
>> Also back around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from 
>> DDB, I thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all the 
>> traffic control boxes I see are plain metal or stainless steel.  The 
>> salesperson said I absolutely didn’t want plain metal because it 
>> would get hot in the sun and what I wanted was the cream color.
>>
>> *From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
>> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
>> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>>
>> If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there says 
>> all ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.
>>
>> I did find a good discussion on Scientific American 
>> (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/).
>> They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest 
>> that you not get your hopes up.
>>
>> I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective 
>> white paint, and try to keep it clean.
>>
>> bp
>> 
>>
>> On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
>>
>> Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain
>> “satellite white” I use.
>>
>> I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things
>> like polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really
>> bad at reflecting heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome
>> wrench that has been left in the hot summer sun and realized hot
>> much it absorbs.  I am guessing what we see as reflective, Infra
>> Red sees as flat black.
>>
>> *From:*Bill Prince
>>
>> *Sent:*Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM
>>
>> *To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
>>
>> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>>
>> Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.
>>
>> You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around
>> $250 per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another
>> material at near the same price. However, for an advertised
>> reduction in temperature of over 60 degrees F, it may be worth a look.
>>
>> https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/
>>
>> bp
>>
>> 
>>
>> On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>>
>> I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I
>> thought there might be some interest.
>>
>> Cabinet heat load
>> 
>> <https://www.ddbunlimited.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Solar-Load-o
>> n-DDB-Enclosures.pdf>
>>
>> --
>>
>> Lewis Bergman
>>
>> 325-439-0533 Cell
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>> -
>> ---
>>
>> -- 
>> AF mailing list
>> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
>> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
> 
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Ken Hohhof 
Hmmm, I have a Bison battery box at one site and specifically got it in bright 
white powder coat.  Maybe a mistake?  Probably depends on climate and whether 
the box is in direct sun.  We have some grain elevator sites where our 
equipment is in the shade year round due to giant grain bins.  But where a box 
is out in the open, this time of year on a clear day a standard grey enclosure 
gets very, very hot.


-Original Message-
From: AF  On Behalf Of Robert Andrews
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:41 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

We use black boxes for batteries as the increase in performance in the winter 
overrides the damage to the batteries in the summer


On 08/15/2019 04:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
> The difference between standard machine grey and just bright white spray 
> paint from the hardware store is dramatic.  I suspect everything beyond 
> that is incremental.
> 
> Also back around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from DDB, 
> I thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all the traffic 
> control boxes I see are plain metal or stainless steel.  The salesperson 
> said I absolutely didn’t want plain metal because it would get hot in 
> the sun and what I wanted was the cream color.
> 
> *From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
> 
> If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there says all 
> ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.
> 
> I did find a good discussion on Scientific American 
> (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/). 
> They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest that 
> you not get your hopes up.
> 
> I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective white 
> paint, and try to keep it clean.
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:
> 
> Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain
> “satellite white” I use.
> 
> I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things
> like polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really
> bad at reflecting heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome wrench
> that has been left in the hot summer sun and realized hot much it
> absorbs.  I am guessing what we see as reflective, Infra Red sees as
> flat black.
> 
> *From:*Bill Prince
> 
> *Sent:*Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM
> 
> *To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>
> 
> *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
> 
> Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.
> 
> You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around
> $250 per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another
> material at near the same price. However, for an advertised
> reduction in temperature of over 60 degrees F, it may be worth a look.
> 
> https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/
> 
> bp
> 
> 
> 
> On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
> 
> I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I thought
> there might be some interest.
> 
> Cabinet heat load
> 
> <https://www.ddbunlimited.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Solar-Load-on-DDB-Enclosures.pdf>
> 
> -- 
> 
> Lewis Bergman
> 
> 325-439-0533 Cell
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com>
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

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Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Sean Heskett 
we had someone once apply the silver reflective tape to their dish thinking
it would improve their signal.  it burnt a hole in the SM and they called
because their internet was down lol

-sean


On Thu, Aug 15, 2019 at 2:32 PM Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I saw an article online that said twice a year when the sun lines up right
> behind the satellite your satellite dish is pointed at, it can not only
> knock out the RF link, but if the dish is painted a reflective color, it
> can melt the plastic case of the LNB.  I guess that’s why sat dishes are
> dark grey?  (or in some cases black)  I assume a radome would prevent that
> by letting RF through but not sunlight?
>
>
>
> *From:* AF  *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 3:13 PM
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>
>
>
> Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain “satellite
> white” I use.
>
>
>
>
>
> I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things like
> polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really bad at
> reflecting heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome wrench that has been
> left in the hot summer sun and realized hot much it absorbs.  I am guessing
> what we see as reflective, Infra Red sees as flat black.
>
>
>
> *From:* Bill Prince
>
> *Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM
>
> *To:* af@af.afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
>
>
>
> Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.
>
> You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around $250
> per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another material at near
> the same price. However, for an advertised reduction in temperature of over
> 60 degrees F, it may be worth a look.
>
> https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/
>
> bp
>
> 
>
>
>
> On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
>
> I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I thought there
> might be some interest.
>
> Cabinet heat load
> <https://www.ddbunlimited.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Solar-Load-on-DDB-Enclosures.pdf>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Lewis Bergman
>
> 325-439-0533 Cell
>
>
>
> --
>
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
> --
> AF mailing list
> AF@af.afmug.com
> http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com
>
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Robert Andrews 

Why most smart airplane owners want at least the top to be white!

On 08/15/2019 04:40 PM, Bill Prince wrote:
Burt Rutan did a study of his own back around 1985 or so, as his 
fiberglass creations were all sensitive to heat (room temperature-cured 
epoxy/fiberglass). There is no question that pure, unadulterated white 
is the best "color" to prevent thermal gain from direct sun. All other 
colors, cream, light yellow, even mirror experienced significant gains 
above just plain white.


bp


On 8/15/2019 4:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


The difference between standard machine grey and just bright white 
spray paint from the hardware store is dramatic.  I suspect everything 
beyond that is incremental.


Also back around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from 
DDB, I thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all the traffic 
control boxes I see are plain metal or stainless steel.  The 
salesperson said I absolutely didn’t want plain metal because it would 
get hot in the sun and what I wanted was the cream color.


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there says all 
ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.


I did find a good discussion on Scientific American 
(https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/). 
They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest 
that you not get your hopes up.


I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective 
white paint, and try to keep it clean.


bp


On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain
“satellite white” I use.

I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things
like polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really
bad at reflecting heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome
wrench that has been left in the hot summer sun and realized hot
much it absorbs.  I am guessing what we see as reflective, Infra
Red sees as flat black.

*From:*Bill Prince

*Sent:*Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>

    *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.

You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around
$250 per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another
material at near the same price. However, for an advertised
reduction in temperature of over 60 degrees F, it may be worth a look.

https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/

bp



On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I
thought there might be some interest.

Cabinet heat load

<https://www.ddbunlimited.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Solar-Load-on-DDB-Enclosures.pdf>

-- 


Lewis Bergman

325-439-0533 Cell





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Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Robert Andrews 
We use black boxes for batteries as the increase in performance in the 
winter overrides the damage to the batteries in the summer



On 08/15/2019 04:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:
The difference between standard machine grey and just bright white spray 
paint from the hardware store is dramatic.  I suspect everything beyond 
that is incremental.


Also back around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from DDB, 
I thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all the traffic 
control boxes I see are plain metal or stainless steel.  The salesperson 
said I absolutely didn’t want plain metal because it would get hot in 
the sun and what I wanted was the cream color.


*From:*AF  *On Behalf Of *Bill Prince
*Sent:* Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
*To:* af@af.afmug.com
*Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there says all 
ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.


I did find a good discussion on Scientific American 
(https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/). 
They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest that 
you not get your hopes up.


I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective white 
paint, and try to keep it clean.


bp



On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote:

Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain
“satellite white” I use.

I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things
like polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really
bad at reflecting heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome wrench
that has been left in the hot summer sun and realized hot much it
absorbs.  I am guessing what we see as reflective, Infra Red sees as
flat black.

*From:*Bill Prince

*Sent:*Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM

*To:*af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>

    *Subject:*Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.

You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around
$250 per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another
material at near the same price. However, for an advertised
reduction in temperature of over 60 degrees F, it may be worth a look.

https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/

bp



On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I thought
there might be some interest.

Cabinet heat load

<https://www.ddbunlimited.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Solar-Load-on-DDB-Enclosures.pdf>

-- 


Lewis Bergman

325-439-0533 Cell





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Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Bill Prince 

  
  
Burt Rutan did a study of his own back around 1985 or so, as his
  fiberglass creations were all sensitive to heat (room
  temperature-cured epoxy/fiberglass). There is no question that
  pure, unadulterated white is the best "color" to prevent thermal
  gain from direct sun. All other colors, cream, light yellow, even
  mirror experienced significant gains above just plain white.

bp



On 8/15/2019 4:31 PM, Ken Hohhof wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
The
difference between standard machine grey and just bright
white spray paint from the hardware store is dramatic.  I
suspect everything beyond that is incremental.
 
Also back
around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from
DDB, I thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all
the traffic control boxes I see are plain metal or stainless
steel.  The salesperson said I absolutely didn’t want plain
metal because it would get hot in the sun and what I wanted
was the cream color.
 

  
From: AF
 On Behalf Of Bill
Prince
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
    Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
  

 
If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there
  says all ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.
I did find a good discussion on Scientific American (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/).
  They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also
  suggest that you not get your hopes up.
I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of
  reflective white paint, and try to keep it clean.
 
bp

 

  On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
wrote:


  

  
Be
interesting to do a bake off between this and the
plain “satellite white” I use.  
  
  
 
  
  
 
  
  
I
have always found it interesting that highly
reflective things like polished aluminum, chrome and
silver paint seem to be really bad at reflecting
heat/sun.  But we have all grabbed a chrome wrench
that has been left in the hot summer sun and
realized hot much it absorbs.  I am guessing what we
see as reflective, Infra Red sees as flat black.  
  
  

  
 
  
  

  From: Bill
  Prince 


  Sent:
  Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM


  To: af@af.afmug.com 


  Subject: Re:
      [AFMUG] Solar load

  


   

  
  
Which reminds me of
this material that a friend clued me in on. 
You can get this at
Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around $250
per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of
another material at near the same price. However,
for an advertised reduction in temperature of over
60 degrees F, it may be worth a look.

  https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/

bp

 

  On
  8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:


  

  I remember Chuck
  doing a study on this same subject so I
  thought there might be some interest.

Cabinet heat load


   

--


  
Lewis Bergman 

  325-439

Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Ken Hohhof 
The difference between standard machine grey and just bright white spray paint 
from the hardware store is dramatic.  I suspect everything beyond that is 
incremental.

 

Also back around 2005 when I ordered my first outdoor cabinet from DDB, I 
thought I wanted unpainted metal aluminum since all the traffic control boxes I 
see are plain metal or stainless steel.  The salesperson said I absolutely 
didn’t want plain metal because it would get hot in the sun and what I wanted 
was the cream color.

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of Bill Prince
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 6:19 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

 

If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there says all ceramic 
heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.

I did find a good discussion on Scientific American 
(https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/). 
They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest that you not 
get your hopes up.

I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective white paint, 
and try to keep it clean.

 

bp

 

On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>  wrote:

Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain “satellite white” I 
use.  

 

 

I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things like polished 
aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really bad at reflecting heat/sun. 
 But we have all grabbed a chrome wrench that has been left in the hot summer 
sun and realized hot much it absorbs.  I am guessing what we see as reflective, 
Infra Red sees as flat black.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

 

Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on. 

You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around $250 per 5 
gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another material at near the same 
price. However, for an advertised reduction in temperature of over 60 degrees 
F, it may be worth a look.

https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/

bp

 

On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I thought there might be 
some interest.

Cabinet heat load 
<https://www.ddbunlimited.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Solar-Load-on-DDB-Enclosures.pdf>
 


 

-- 

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325-439-0533 Cell






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Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Bill Prince 

  
  
If you look up insulating paint on Wikipedia, the entry there
  says all ceramic heat-reflective coatings are snake oil.
I did find a good discussion on Scientific American (https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/benefits-of-insulating-paint/).
  They don't exactly describe it as snake oil, but they also suggest
  that you not get your hopes up.
I suspect you can get your best results with a coat of reflective
  white paint, and try to keep it clean.


bp



On 8/15/2019 1:12 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com
  wrote:


  
  

  Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the
plain “satellite white” I use.  
   
   
  I have always found it interesting that highly reflective
things like polished aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem
to be really bad at reflecting heat/sun.  But we have all
grabbed a chrome wrench that has been left in the hot summer
sun and realized hot much it absorbs.  I am guessing what we
see as reflective, Infra Red sees as flat black.  
  

   
  
From: Bill
Prince 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load
  

 
  
  
Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me
  in on. 

You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is
  pricey; around $250 per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a
  top coat of another material at near the same price.
  However, for an advertised reduction in temperature of
  over 60 degrees F, it may be worth a look.

  https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/

bp



On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis
  Bergman wrote:


  
I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject
  so I thought there might be some interest.
Cabinet heat load
 
-- 

  Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
  

  
  
  




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Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Bill Prince 
My guess that what gets in, it would be almost as effective as keeping 
it from getting out. They list it as a block to radiation (UV, visual, 
and IR), plus as an insulator. According to their web site, it is 
measurably better than white paint.


All that said, you would probably still want to (at least) ventilate. 
Depending on your location, you may still want to use a thermal pump. 
Out here, we mostly just use ventilation.



bp


On 8/15/2019 2:50 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
But does it let interior thermal radiation out?  I suppose you could 
just paint the top and three sides and radiate on the northern side? 
Would it be best to paint the northern side a radiant black then?


Curious minds want to know!

On 08/15/2019 12:46 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.

You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around 
$250 per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another material 
at near the same price. However, for an advertised reduction in 
temperature of over 60 degrees F, it may be worth a look.


    https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/

bp


On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I thought 
there might be some interest.
Cabinet heat load 



--
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell








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Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Bill Prince 
My guess that what gets in, it would be almost as effective as keeping 
it from getting out. They list it as a block to radiation (UV, visual, 
and IR), plus as an insulator. According to their web site, it is 
measurably better than white paint.


All that said, you would probably still want to (at least) ventilate. 
Depending on your location, you may still want to use a thermal pump. 
Out here, we mostly just use ventilation.



bp


On 8/15/2019 2:50 PM, Robert Andrews wrote:
But does it let interior thermal radiation out?  I suppose you could 
just paint the top and three sides and radiate on the northern side? 
Would it be best to paint the northern side a radiant black then?


Curious minds want to know!

On 08/15/2019 12:46 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.

You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around 
$250 per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another material 
at near the same price. However, for an advertised reduction in 
temperature of over 60 degrees F, it may be worth a look.


    https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/

bp


On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I thought 
there might be some interest.
Cabinet heat load 



--
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell








--
AF mailing list
AF@af.afmug.com
http://af.afmug.com/mailman/listinfo/af_af.afmug.com

Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Robert Andrews 
But does it let interior thermal radiation out?  I suppose you could 
just paint the top and three sides and radiate on the northern side? 
Would it be best to paint the northern side a radiant black then?


Curious minds want to know!

On 08/15/2019 12:46 PM, Bill Prince wrote:

Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on.

You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around $250 
per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another material at near 
the same price. However, for an advertised reduction in temperature of 
over 60 degrees F, it may be worth a look.


https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/

bp


On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:
I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I thought there 
might be some interest.
Cabinet heat load 



--
Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell






--
AF mailing list
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Ken Hohhof 
I saw an article online that said twice a year when the sun lines up right 
behind the satellite your satellite dish is pointed at, it can not only knock 
out the RF link, but if the dish is painted a reflective color, it can melt the 
plastic case of the LNB.  I guess that’s why sat dishes are dark grey?  (or in 
some cases black)  I assume a radome would prevent that by letting RF through 
but not sunlight?

 

From: AF  On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 3:13 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

 

Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain “satellite white” I 
use.  

 

 

I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things like polished 
aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really bad at reflecting heat/sun. 
 But we have all grabbed a chrome wrench that has been left in the hot summer 
sun and realized hot much it absorbs.  I am guessing what we see as reflective, 
Infra Red sees as flat black.  

 

From: Bill Prince 

Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM

To: af@af.afmug.com <mailto:af@af.afmug.com>  

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

 

Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on. 

You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around $250 per 5 
gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another material at near the same 
price. However, for an advertised reduction in temperature of over 60 degrees 
F, it may be worth a look.

https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/

bp

 

On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I thought there might be 
some interest.

Cabinet heat load 
<https://www.ddbunlimited.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/Solar-Load-on-DDB-Enclosures.pdf>
 


 

-- 

Lewis Bergman 

325-439-0533 Cell





  _  

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AF@af.afmug.com <mailto:AF@af.afmug.com> 
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Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread chuck 
Be interesting to do a bake off between this and the plain “satellite white” I 
use.  


I have always found it interesting that highly reflective things like polished 
aluminum, chrome and silver paint seem to be really bad at reflecting heat/sun. 
 But we have all grabbed a chrome wrench that has been left in the hot summer 
sun and realized hot much it absorbs.  I am guessing what we see as reflective, 
Infra Red sees as flat black.  

From: Bill Prince 
Sent: Thursday, August 15, 2019 1:46 PM
To: af@af.afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on. 


You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey; around $250 per 5 
gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of another material at near the same 
price. However, for an advertised reduction in temperature of over 60 degrees 
F, it may be worth a look.

  https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/

bp


On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman wrote:

  I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I thought there might 
be some interest.
  Cabinet heat load


  -- 

  Lewis Bergman 
  325-439-0533 Cell

   



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Re: [AFMUG] Solar load

2019-08-15 Thread Bill Prince 

  
  
Which reminds me of this material that a friend clued me in on. 

You can get this at Home Depot (for example). It is pricey;
  around $250 per 5 gallon bucket, AND it needs a top coat of
  another material at near the same price. However, for an
  advertised reduction in temperature of over 60 degrees F, it may
  be worth a look.

  https://superiorcoatingsolutions.com/super-therm/

bp



On 8/15/2019 12:35 PM, Lewis Bergman
  wrote:


  
  
I remember Chuck doing a study on this same subject so I
  thought there might be some interest.
Cabinet heat load


-- 

  Lewis Bergman
325-439-0533 Cell
  

  
  
  

  


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