Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues

[Jeremy]

We have about 20 AF5X, 1 AF24, and nearly 100 Rocket Prisms.  They all
negotiate at 1G, but we buy them in bulk and haven't purchased any for
quite some time.  So it is likely that this is something with the new
revision.

On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 7:35 AM, Adair Winter 
wrote:

> How many is many?
>
> We have at least 50 airfiber links deployed and have been using the
> GigE-apc for over two years so I'm not sure what all revs we have.
>
> We never seen the issues if we use the transector aplu
>
> On Jul 30, 2017 2:01 AM, "Jeremy"  wrote:
>
>> All of my AF5Xs and AF24 are running on the older version of the
>> GIGE-POE-APC and they work fine at gigabit.  We have MANY.  Just FYI.
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks, all info like this is very helpful.  GigE is more akin to RF
>>> engineering than digital.
>>>
>>> *From:* Adair Winter
>>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 29, 2017 8:19 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues
>>>
>>> If we can feed you any data to help troubleshoot, please let me know
>>> what that would be. in several places we've had to remove the modules. It
>>> only seems like it's airfiber 24's and 5x's we ever have problems with. I
>>> mostly chock it up them and possibly crummy ethernet ports. When we have
>>> trouble it doesn't seem to matter what cable we use or how long the run is
>>> it. We have lots on UBNT Carrier cable and recently many on Primus CAT6,
>>> doesn't seem to make a lot of difference. Removing the modules always fixes
>>> the CRC errors though.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 9:10 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 It tests perfect on the lab  but as we all know

 Full speed, no CRC or any other type of errors.  Long cables, short
 cables etc etc.

 I generally only hear from cambium users.  And not that much, so it is
 not happening on all of them, but some.

 I do have 3 components coming that  have better specs that I am
 switching to.
 It will improve NEXT and return loss.
 If that is the cause then that will be the fix.

 There is also a thing in the POE inserters called the "Bob Smith" or BS
 termination.
 There really was a guy named Bob Smith that did the original
 calculation.

 There is another guy that has more recently published a different
 mathematical treatment of the BS termination that uses a different
 impedance.  I am going to try this and see if it improves things as well.

 -Original Message- From: George Skorup
 Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 4:10 PM
 To: af@afmug.com
 Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues

 I had very few issues with the previous ones. The RJ45 tab facing at the
 PCB was a minor inconvenience. Sync over power + gigabit didn't play
 nice with those, but GigE otherwise worked fine.

 I tested a couple prototypes of the new revision for Chuck. Sync over
 power + gigabit with a PowerInjector+Sync and a 450 AP worked fine. Then
 we replaced that AP with a 450i because of the 450's PPS limit. I didn't
 notice it at the time, but the 450i never came up at gigabit. We didn't
 really need >80Mbps downlink anyway. It would usually run about 55-60 at
 night which was where the 450 was crapping out. Well, more like 50 and
 9-10k PPS.

 Now I've got some ePMP GPS radios for PTP (not for sync, just the GigE
 interface). Same symptoms as the UBNT prism thingamajig. The link comes
 up at gig, but flaps and constant FCS errors. The 450i just goes, gig,
 gig, gig, nope.. 100mbps at bootup.

 Pulling the SS out makes it work, but I can't do that. We lost that 450i
 AP because someone went and bypassed the SS because they were apparently
 concerned about the CRC errors and didn't f'ing tell me about it, even
 after I said I'd debug it on Monday. Welp, a storm rolled in the Friday
 before and.. there went the AP. Good job! In Steve Jones' words, I have
 only one comment: fuckwits.

 I'd say just stay tuned. Chuck is working on it. As he put it, GigE is a
 different animal. NEXT, FEXT and all that fun stuff.

 On 7/29/2017 4:20 PM, Matt wrote:

> Seeing same issues on Gigabit ethernet ports with Cambium PxP450i and
> also SAF licensed gear.  Shorter cable runs help but just not possible
> on some towers.  Bypassing the GigE-APC always fixes it.
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 12:40 PM, George Skorup
>  wrote:
>
>> I think I've seen this mentioned a few times now. Maybe Steve and a
>> couple
>> others?
>>
>> The latest revision (D?) is causing CRC/FCS errors and random link
>> drops.
>> Taking the SS out makes all problems go away.
>>
>> Definitely more issues at gigabit. I have multiple sites 

Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues

[Jerry Head]

My UBNT Rocket AC lites will only come up at 100-meg going through the 
GigE-APC as well.

FWiW

On 7/29/2017 9:10 PM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote:

It tests perfect on the lab  but as we all know

Full speed, no CRC or any other type of errors.  Long cables, short 
cables etc etc.


I generally only hear from cambium users.  And not that much, so it is 
not happening on all of them, but some.


I do have 3 components coming that  have better specs that I am 
switching to.

It will improve NEXT and return loss.
If that is the cause then that will be the fix.

There is also a thing in the POE inserters called the "Bob Smith" or 
BS termination.

There really was a guy named Bob Smith that did the original calculation.

There is another guy that has more recently published a different 
mathematical treatment of the BS termination that uses a different 
impedance.  I am going to try this and see if it improves things as well.


-Original Message- From: George Skorup
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 4:10 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues

I had very few issues with the previous ones. The RJ45 tab facing at the
PCB was a minor inconvenience. Sync over power + gigabit didn't play
nice with those, but GigE otherwise worked fine.

I tested a couple prototypes of the new revision for Chuck. Sync over
power + gigabit with a PowerInjector+Sync and a 450 AP worked fine. Then
we replaced that AP with a 450i because of the 450's PPS limit. I didn't
notice it at the time, but the 450i never came up at gigabit. We didn't
really need >80Mbps downlink anyway. It would usually run about 55-60 at
night which was where the 450 was crapping out. Well, more like 50 and
9-10k PPS.

Now I've got some ePMP GPS radios for PTP (not for sync, just the GigE
interface). Same symptoms as the UBNT prism thingamajig. The link comes
up at gig, but flaps and constant FCS errors. The 450i just goes, gig,
gig, gig, nope.. 100mbps at bootup.

Pulling the SS out makes it work, but I can't do that. We lost that 450i
AP because someone went and bypassed the SS because they were apparently
concerned about the CRC errors and didn't f'ing tell me about it, even
after I said I'd debug it on Monday. Welp, a storm rolled in the Friday
before and.. there went the AP. Good job! In Steve Jones' words, I have
only one comment: fuckwits.

I'd say just stay tuned. Chuck is working on it. As he put it, GigE is a
different animal. NEXT, FEXT and all that fun stuff.

On 7/29/2017 4:20 PM, Matt wrote:

Seeing same issues on Gigabit ethernet ports with Cambium PxP450i and
also SAF licensed gear.  Shorter cable runs help but just not possible
on some towers.  Bypassing the GigE-APC always fixes it.


On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 12:40 PM, George Skorup
 wrote:
I think I've seen this mentioned a few times now. Maybe Steve and a 
couple

others?

The latest revision (D?) is causing CRC/FCS errors and random link 
drops.

Taking the SS out makes all problems go away.

Definitely more issues at gigabit. I have multiple sites with some 
UBNT and
ePMP stuff (no sync over power). Some I've turned off gigabit 
negotiation
and get only a few FCS errors here and there. Running gigabit sees 
lots more
errors and adds a 2-3 second link loss randomly which is a big issue 
on a

PTP link.

Got a couple sites with 450i APs. One that I was working with the 
other day
is a new radio (because the old one blew up). New cable, new 
GigE-APC, new
PacketFlux PowerInjector. The link tries to negotiate gigabit, but 
falls
back to 100 after a few tries. Turned off sync over power just to 
see and

still no gigabit. Remove the SS and it works fine.

Floating the shield makes no difference. Running the site on battery 
also
makes no difference. Some FM sites, some water towers, some 
elevators, some

regular towers with only our stuff on it.

The stuff I was working with yesterday is a new UBNT Prism PTP 
radio, new
GigE-APC, new CCR1009. This site also has an Exalt G2-11 fed by an 
older

GigE-POE-APC and I get no errors on that. It used to be plugged into a
MikroTik CRS210 and I didn't see any errors on that either.

I had far fewer issues with the older cards. Unfortunately I don't 
think I
have any good ones left to do a comparison. I do have a couple that 
got some
water in the jack, maybe I can clean those up for testing. I've used 
maybe
10 of the new ones now and they all seem to be causing issues. And 
before
you ask, yes, I've tried dumb gigabit switches at a few sites 
temporarily

and still see the random link loss with the SS in line.

Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues

[Chuck McCown]

The GigEs are set to trigger at a lower impulse threshold than the Transtector. 
 

Which translates to both greater protection but more likely to admit noise to 
the line if the grounds are noisy.  

From: Adair Winter 
Sent: Sunday, July 30, 2017 7:35 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues

How many is many?  

We have at least 50 airfiber links deployed and have been using the GigE-apc 
for over two years so I'm not sure what all revs we have. 

We never seen the issues if we use the transector aplu

On Jul 30, 2017 2:01 AM, "Jeremy"  wrote:

  All of my AF5Xs and AF24 are running on the older version of the GIGE-POE-APC 
and they work fine at gigabit.  We have MANY.  Just FYI.  

  On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

Thanks, all info like this is very helpful.  GigE is more akin to RF 
engineering than digital.  

From: Adair Winter 
Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 8:19 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues

If we can feed you any data to help troubleshoot, please let me know what 
that would be. in several places we've had to remove the modules. It only seems 
like it's airfiber 24's and 5x's we ever have problems with. I mostly chock it 
up them and possibly crummy ethernet ports. When we have trouble it doesn't 
seem to matter what cable we use or how long the run is it. We have lots on 
UBNT Carrier cable and recently many on Primus CAT6, doesn't seem to make a lot 
of difference. Removing the modules always fixes the CRC errors though.

On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 9:10 PM,  wrote:

  It tests perfect on the lab  but as we all know

  Full speed, no CRC or any other type of errors.  Long cables, short 
cables etc etc.

  I generally only hear from cambium users.  And not that much, so it is 
not happening on all of them, but some.

  I do have 3 components coming that  have better specs that I am switching 
to.
  It will improve NEXT and return loss.
  If that is the cause then that will be the fix.

  There is also a thing in the POE inserters called the "Bob Smith" or BS 
termination.
  There really was a guy named Bob Smith that did the original calculation.

  There is another guy that has more recently published a different 
mathematical treatment of the BS termination that uses a different impedance.  
I am going to try this and see if it improves things as well.

  -Original Message- From: George Skorup
  Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 4:10 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues

  I had very few issues with the previous ones. The RJ45 tab facing at the
  PCB was a minor inconvenience. Sync over power + gigabit didn't play
  nice with those, but GigE otherwise worked fine.

  I tested a couple prototypes of the new revision for Chuck. Sync over
  power + gigabit with a PowerInjector+Sync and a 450 AP worked fine. Then
  we replaced that AP with a 450i because of the 450's PPS limit. I didn't
  notice it at the time, but the 450i never came up at gigabit. We didn't
  really need >80Mbps downlink anyway. It would usually run about 55-60 at
  night which was where the 450 was crapping out. Well, more like 50 and
  9-10k PPS.

  Now I've got some ePMP GPS radios for PTP (not for sync, just the GigE
  interface). Same symptoms as the UBNT prism thingamajig. The link comes
  up at gig, but flaps and constant FCS errors. The 450i just goes, gig,
  gig, gig, nope.. 100mbps at bootup.

  Pulling the SS out makes it work, but I can't do that. We lost that 450i
  AP because someone went and bypassed the SS because they were apparently
  concerned about the CRC errors and didn't f'ing tell me about it, even
  after I said I'd debug it on Monday. Welp, a storm rolled in the Friday
  before and.. there went the AP. Good job! In Steve Jones' words, I have
  only one comment: fuckwits.

  I'd say just stay tuned. Chuck is working on it. As he put it, GigE is a
  different animal. NEXT, FEXT and all that fun stuff.

  On 7/29/2017 4:20 PM, Matt wrote:

Seeing same issues on Gigabit ethernet ports with Cambium PxP450i and
also SAF licensed gear.  Shorter cable runs help but just not possible
on some towers.  Bypassing the GigE-APC always fixes it.


On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 12:40 PM, George Skorup
 wrote:

  I think I've seen this mentioned a few times now. Maybe Steve and a 
couple
  others?

  The latest revision (D?) is causing CRC/FCS errors and random link 
drops.
  Taking the SS out makes all problems go away.

  Definitely more issues at gigabit. I have multiple sites with some 
UBNT and
  ePMP stuff (no sync over power). Some I've turned off gigabit 
negotiation
   

Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues

[Adair Winter]

How many is many?

We have at least 50 airfiber links deployed and have been using the
GigE-apc for over two years so I'm not sure what all revs we have.

We never seen the issues if we use the transector aplu

On Jul 30, 2017 2:01 AM, "Jeremy"  wrote:

> All of my AF5Xs and AF24 are running on the older version of the
> GIGE-POE-APC and they work fine at gigabit.  We have MANY.  Just FYI.
>
> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:
>
>> Thanks, all info like this is very helpful.  GigE is more akin to RF
>> engineering than digital.
>>
>> *From:* Adair Winter
>> *Sent:* Saturday, July 29, 2017 8:19 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues
>>
>> If we can feed you any data to help troubleshoot, please let me know what
>> that would be. in several places we've had to remove the modules. It only
>> seems like it's airfiber 24's and 5x's we ever have problems with. I mostly
>> chock it up them and possibly crummy ethernet ports. When we have trouble
>> it doesn't seem to matter what cable we use or how long the run is it. We
>> have lots on UBNT Carrier cable and recently many on Primus CAT6, doesn't
>> seem to make a lot of difference. Removing the modules always fixes the CRC
>> errors though.
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 9:10 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> It tests perfect on the lab  but as we all know
>>>
>>> Full speed, no CRC or any other type of errors.  Long cables, short
>>> cables etc etc.
>>>
>>> I generally only hear from cambium users.  And not that much, so it is
>>> not happening on all of them, but some.
>>>
>>> I do have 3 components coming that  have better specs that I am
>>> switching to.
>>> It will improve NEXT and return loss.
>>> If that is the cause then that will be the fix.
>>>
>>> There is also a thing in the POE inserters called the "Bob Smith" or BS
>>> termination.
>>> There really was a guy named Bob Smith that did the original calculation.
>>>
>>> There is another guy that has more recently published a different
>>> mathematical treatment of the BS termination that uses a different
>>> impedance.  I am going to try this and see if it improves things as well.
>>>
>>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup
>>> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 4:10 PM
>>> To: af@afmug.com
>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues
>>>
>>> I had very few issues with the previous ones. The RJ45 tab facing at the
>>> PCB was a minor inconvenience. Sync over power + gigabit didn't play
>>> nice with those, but GigE otherwise worked fine.
>>>
>>> I tested a couple prototypes of the new revision for Chuck. Sync over
>>> power + gigabit with a PowerInjector+Sync and a 450 AP worked fine. Then
>>> we replaced that AP with a 450i because of the 450's PPS limit. I didn't
>>> notice it at the time, but the 450i never came up at gigabit. We didn't
>>> really need >80Mbps downlink anyway. It would usually run about 55-60 at
>>> night which was where the 450 was crapping out. Well, more like 50 and
>>> 9-10k PPS.
>>>
>>> Now I've got some ePMP GPS radios for PTP (not for sync, just the GigE
>>> interface). Same symptoms as the UBNT prism thingamajig. The link comes
>>> up at gig, but flaps and constant FCS errors. The 450i just goes, gig,
>>> gig, gig, nope.. 100mbps at bootup.
>>>
>>> Pulling the SS out makes it work, but I can't do that. We lost that 450i
>>> AP because someone went and bypassed the SS because they were apparently
>>> concerned about the CRC errors and didn't f'ing tell me about it, even
>>> after I said I'd debug it on Monday. Welp, a storm rolled in the Friday
>>> before and.. there went the AP. Good job! In Steve Jones' words, I have
>>> only one comment: fuckwits.
>>>
>>> I'd say just stay tuned. Chuck is working on it. As he put it, GigE is a
>>> different animal. NEXT, FEXT and all that fun stuff.
>>>
>>> On 7/29/2017 4:20 PM, Matt wrote:
>>>
 Seeing same issues on Gigabit ethernet ports with Cambium PxP450i and
 also SAF licensed gear.  Shorter cable runs help but just not possible
 on some towers.  Bypassing the GigE-APC always fixes it.


 On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 12:40 PM, George Skorup
  wrote:

> I think I've seen this mentioned a few times now. Maybe Steve and a
> couple
> others?
>
> The latest revision (D?) is causing CRC/FCS errors and random link
> drops.
> Taking the SS out makes all problems go away.
>
> Definitely more issues at gigabit. I have multiple sites with some
> UBNT and
> ePMP stuff (no sync over power). Some I've turned off gigabit
> negotiation
> and get only a few FCS errors here and there. Running gigabit sees
> lots more
> errors and adds a 2-3 second link loss randomly which is a big issue
> on a
> PTP link.
>
> Got a couple sites with 450i APs. One that I was working with the
> other day
> is a new radio 

Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues

[Jeremy]

All of my AF5Xs and AF24 are running on the older version of the
GIGE-POE-APC and they work fine at gigabit.  We have MANY.  Just FYI.

On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 9:28 PM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Thanks, all info like this is very helpful.  GigE is more akin to RF
> engineering than digital.
>
> *From:* Adair Winter
> *Sent:* Saturday, July 29, 2017 8:19 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues
>
> If we can feed you any data to help troubleshoot, please let me know what
> that would be. in several places we've had to remove the modules. It only
> seems like it's airfiber 24's and 5x's we ever have problems with. I mostly
> chock it up them and possibly crummy ethernet ports. When we have trouble
> it doesn't seem to matter what cable we use or how long the run is it. We
> have lots on UBNT Carrier cable and recently many on Primus CAT6, doesn't
> seem to make a lot of difference. Removing the modules always fixes the CRC
> errors though.
>
> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 9:10 PM,  wrote:
>
>> It tests perfect on the lab  but as we all know
>>
>> Full speed, no CRC or any other type of errors.  Long cables, short
>> cables etc etc.
>>
>> I generally only hear from cambium users.  And not that much, so it is
>> not happening on all of them, but some.
>>
>> I do have 3 components coming that  have better specs that I am switching
>> to.
>> It will improve NEXT and return loss.
>> If that is the cause then that will be the fix.
>>
>> There is also a thing in the POE inserters called the "Bob Smith" or BS
>> termination.
>> There really was a guy named Bob Smith that did the original calculation.
>>
>> There is another guy that has more recently published a different
>> mathematical treatment of the BS termination that uses a different
>> impedance.  I am going to try this and see if it improves things as well.
>>
>> -Original Message- From: George Skorup
>> Sent: Saturday, July 29, 2017 4:10 PM
>> To: af@afmug.com
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] new GigE-APC issues
>>
>> I had very few issues with the previous ones. The RJ45 tab facing at the
>> PCB was a minor inconvenience. Sync over power + gigabit didn't play
>> nice with those, but GigE otherwise worked fine.
>>
>> I tested a couple prototypes of the new revision for Chuck. Sync over
>> power + gigabit with a PowerInjector+Sync and a 450 AP worked fine. Then
>> we replaced that AP with a 450i because of the 450's PPS limit. I didn't
>> notice it at the time, but the 450i never came up at gigabit. We didn't
>> really need >80Mbps downlink anyway. It would usually run about 55-60 at
>> night which was where the 450 was crapping out. Well, more like 50 and
>> 9-10k PPS.
>>
>> Now I've got some ePMP GPS radios for PTP (not for sync, just the GigE
>> interface). Same symptoms as the UBNT prism thingamajig. The link comes
>> up at gig, but flaps and constant FCS errors. The 450i just goes, gig,
>> gig, gig, nope.. 100mbps at bootup.
>>
>> Pulling the SS out makes it work, but I can't do that. We lost that 450i
>> AP because someone went and bypassed the SS because they were apparently
>> concerned about the CRC errors and didn't f'ing tell me about it, even
>> after I said I'd debug it on Monday. Welp, a storm rolled in the Friday
>> before and.. there went the AP. Good job! In Steve Jones' words, I have
>> only one comment: fuckwits.
>>
>> I'd say just stay tuned. Chuck is working on it. As he put it, GigE is a
>> different animal. NEXT, FEXT and all that fun stuff.
>>
>> On 7/29/2017 4:20 PM, Matt wrote:
>>
>>> Seeing same issues on Gigabit ethernet ports with Cambium PxP450i and
>>> also SAF licensed gear.  Shorter cable runs help but just not possible
>>> on some towers.  Bypassing the GigE-APC always fixes it.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sat, Jul 29, 2017 at 12:40 PM, George Skorup
>>>  wrote:
>>>
 I think I've seen this mentioned a few times now. Maybe Steve and a
 couple
 others?

 The latest revision (D?) is causing CRC/FCS errors and random link
 drops.
 Taking the SS out makes all problems go away.

 Definitely more issues at gigabit. I have multiple sites with some UBNT
 and
 ePMP stuff (no sync over power). Some I've turned off gigabit
 negotiation
 and get only a few FCS errors here and there. Running gigabit sees lots
 more
 errors and adds a 2-3 second link loss randomly which is a big issue on
 a
 PTP link.

 Got a couple sites with 450i APs. One that I was working with the other
 day
 is a new radio (because the old one blew up). New cable, new GigE-APC,
 new
 PacketFlux PowerInjector. The link tries to negotiate gigabit, but falls
 back to 100 after a few tries. Turned off sync over power just to see
 and
 still no gigabit. Remove the SS and it works fine.

 Floating the shield makes no difference. Running the site on battery
 also
 makes no