Hi here, I'm glad to see discussions about UBNT UFiber GPON here. I'd like to clarify some of the statements which I read in this thread.
> Ubnt initially released a spec saying the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. The hardware is designed well, no worries. The reason why we haven't used parts with extended operating temperature range was that we hadn't a good source for those parts at that time (stable quality and cost). > So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully load the OLT. Nano G - $64.50 https://www.balticnetworks.com/manufacturers/ubiquiti/fiber/cpe/ufiber-nano-g.html ZTE - $43.75 https://www.balticnetworks.com/zte-zxhn-f601-gpon-optical-network-terminal.html So ZTE ONUs is 32% cheaper but ZTE OLT is much more expensive so the total cost of deployment starts to be equal once you deploy around 300 ONUs. I can assure you that we will release a price optimized UFiber Loco ONU (the price will be similar to the mentioned ZTE ONU) before your deployment grows to that point. > The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Sure, we don't have POTS port on UF-Nano but you can use VoIP and Multicast IPTV without any problem by using VLANs. Have you tried the latest firmwares (Some beta firmwares had problems with multicasts but that was long time ago)? (by the way, we just released router mode firmwares https://blog.ubnt.com/2018/02/08/pushing-ufiber-gpon-next-level/) > Also struggled with getting the UNMS installed and working properly Could you please send us some details to this forum https://community.ubnt.com/t5/UNMS-Beta/bd-p/UNMSBeta ? You can tag UBNT-Jindrich or UBNT-Radek there directly to get their attention quickly. Regards, Martin On Fri, Feb 16, 2018 at 12:21 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > Check eBay, alibaba etc. > > On Feb 15, 2018 11:32 PM, "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net> > wrote: > >> Thanks, and yes, it would be grey market since I'm not willing to pay >> nearly double for the supported version. Point taken on the Ubiquiti >> support though, I just figured crap support is better than no support. >> >> Going back to the distributed tap design, how does an OTDR behave with >> this kind of setup? Do you need some special software or do you just have >> to read it differently? >> >> Where are you sourcing your FBT splitters? >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever >>> dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless. >>> >>> Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's >>> a nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in >>> Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband. >>> com> wrote: >>> >>>> Thanks for the information. Others were saying the ZTE units are >>>> basically without any support, so I thought that might be a potential >>>> benefit to the Ubiquiti gear. What do you use to manage the ZTE gear? Is >>>> it just CLI? >>>> >>>> -Jason >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE >>>>> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5 >>>>> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH, >>>>> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying >>>>> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to >>>>> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it >>>>> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not >>>>> confidence building. >>>>> >>>>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less >>>>> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully >>>>> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in >>>>> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also >>>>> struggled >>>>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a >>>>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was >>>>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie < >>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max >>>>>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range >>>>>>> parameter >>>>>>> that needs to be set. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT >>>>>>> is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and >>>>>>> -28 >>>>>>> rx sens. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's also a compelling point. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's not a simple question for sure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger >>>>>>>> company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably >>>>>>>> have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear >>>>>>>> that in >>>>>>>> mind too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in >>>>>>>> cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and >>>>>>>> outdoor cabinets. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per >>>>>>>> customer. >>>>>>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing >>>>>>>> myself to do PON. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM >>>>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chuck, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark * >>>>>>>> mailto:m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *------Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM >>>>>>>> *To:* Adam Moffett >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Adam, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The >>>>>>>> requirement >>>>>>>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot >>>>>>>> exceed 20Km." >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long >>>>>>>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that >>>>>>>> into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using >>>>>>>> a >>>>>>>> 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles >>>>>>>> depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 >>>>>>>> splitter >>>>>>>> to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light >>>>>>>> budget. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max >>>>>>>> usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our >>>>>>>> ports. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark *mailto: >>>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *------Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Maybe I need to review the math. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I >>>>>>>> didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought >>>>>>>> every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus >>>>>>>> ethernet. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> >>>>>>>> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> >>>>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Adam, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 >>>>>>>> split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark *mailto: >>>>>>>> m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *------Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm >>>>>>>> looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I >>>>>>>> run >>>>>>>> the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 >>>>>>>> times >>>>>>>> and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 >>>>>>>> or so >>>>>>>> houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just >>>>>>>> aren't seeming to work out for me. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch >>>>>>>> to PON some day if I want to. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past >>>>>>>> 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say >>>>>>>> "never". In >>>>>>>> AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to >>>>>>>> do >>>>>>>> that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Adam >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------ Original Message ------ >>>>>>>> From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> A few reasons... >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Port cost is still fairly high. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More splicing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More fiber required. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Larger chassis required. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More power required. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> More battery backup required. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON >>>>>>>> capacity in most places. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Chuck Hogg >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM >>>>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product >>>>>>>> with Zhone is different. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> Chuck >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> >>>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was >>>>>>>> DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't >>>>>>>> remember which. ;-) >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ----- >>>>>>>> Mike Hammett >>>>>>>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ------------------------------ >>>>>>>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >>>>>>>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM >>>>>>>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be >>>>>>>> anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other >>>>>>>> suggestions? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> I found these guys, but have never heard of them: >>>>>>>> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of >>>>>>>> them: >>>>>>>> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_2014052017 >>>>>>>> 4927.pdf >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -Jason >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>
